PUBG creators are unhappy with Fortnite: Battle Royale, considering ‘further action’

[ItsMitch]

Lol, last time someone tried to sue Epic Games it ended up disastrously, as in the company who even tried to sue had to destroy EVERY game copy they had, yeah they lost that bad. PUBG, in general, is a meh its an alright game I guess. I just don't think they need to be running their PR like the developers of Digitial Homicide. No-one likes shitty PR teams but cmon at least try and be decent. 

[Trik'Stari]

IIRC isn't PUBG a ripoff of DayZ without the Zombies?

 

I really can't wait for these 1-life-per-round style games to just die off.

[Brainless906]

In an updated article team Bluehole mentioned it isnt the fact that its a battle royal style game that has them worried but more that the game mode has massive simularties coming down to even the UI and referencing PUBG itself while Bluehole is paying a very nice chunk of royalties to EPIC already to use the engine. Essentially EPIC trying to double dip on PUBGs success. They in no way saying they own battleroyal, and are not pretending they do. The issue more about EPIC.

I dont see why everyone jumping on the "lets hate the popular thing", this seems like a very reasonable concern

1) make a stupid successful game with some engine

2) pay shitloads of dollars in royalties to that engines creator
3) Engines creator suddenly comes out with blatant ripoff of the game you're currently paying shitloads of money to license the engine for (albeit just a game mode)
4) original game makers show concern for this action
5) people somehow get mad at 1rst company who made original game???

http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

[Syntaxvgm]

On 9/25/2017 at 8:38 AM, Brainless906 said:

In an updated article team Bluehole mentioned it isnt the fact that its a battle royal style game that has them worried but more that the game mode has massive simularties coming down to even the UI and referencing PUBG itself while Bluehole is paying a very nice chunk of royalties to EPIC already to use the engine. Essentially EPIC trying to double dip on PUBGs success. They in no way saying they own battleroyal, and are not pretending they do. The issue more about EPIC.

I dont see why everyone jumping on the "lets hate the popular thing", this seems like a very reasonable concern

1) make a stupid successful game with some engine

2) pay shitloads of dollars in royalties to that engines creator
3) Engines creator suddenly comes out with blatant ripoff of the game you're currently paying shitloads of money to license the engine for (albeit just a game mode)
4) original game makers show concern for this action
5) people somehow get mad at 1rst company who made original game???

http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

except the game, while a ripoff, clearly steals no assets or code from PUBG. not that anyone would want to. 

Epic has every right to make their own games. Epic has been making shooting games for a while. They can make whatever game they want, and it could have been a hell of a lot closer. Legally, it's very obvious that there's nothing they could do, and instead of being bigger people, they decided to whine, bitch, and threaten when everyone knows they can do nothing legally, they own battleground games as much as a game could own 'capture the flag', which is not at all close to what you could claim as intellectual property. 

It doesn't matter that epic made some shitty ripoff as a cash grab, it matters that bluehole can't shut their fucking mouths and work on fixing their clearly more popular and superior game. They weren't 'concerned', they outright bitched and threatened legal action. And the response to them from players is due in part to their already terrible reputation. Making a game means competition, and if a competitor arises, and they can't handle that as the already established heavyweight for this newly popular (though long existing) genre, it's sad.

 

BTW I"m not sure I've ever seen a game made in UE with such a large budget to work with have so many problems. I can tell you from  even my minor experience with 3, smooth god damn experience. Better than many other things I've worked with. And in 4 they have made it so you can literally make an entire game with drag and drop logic called 'blueprints' to avoid actual coding. My guess is they are heavily utilizing the workflow optimization and premade elements of the engine and know little about the core engine they're working with, the underlying code. I'm not saying they're using blueprints, (not even sure how good they are since I haven't worked with them yet) but I think what they are making is slapped on top of unreal in a really sloppy manner, and without ue4 or something like it that cuts out a large portion of the work for them, they would not have been able to make this game. I guarantee 90% of the actual code or more is Epics, and they just made their own assets and entered their own values for stuff like physics, threw some snippets of code on top of that, made small modifications here and there. I think Epic's 5% cut is more than deserved. 

[Doobeedoo]

So funny. Fortnite was meh to me once they showed it first. But pubg is on a whole another level of overrated game. I seriously couldn't believe the game even had a pricetag. It's nothing new or special, game modes such as battle royale type or last man standing existed throughout games. Reason pubg became popular was due to stremers. 

[Brainless906]

5 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

except the game, while a ripoff, clearly steals no assets or code from PUBG. not that anyone would want to. 

Epic has every right to make their own games. Epic has been making shooting games for a while. They can make whatever game they want, and it could have been a hell of a lot closer. Legally, it's very obvious that there's nothing they could do, and instead of being bigger people, they decided to whine, bitch, and threaten when everyone knows they can do nothing legally, they own battleground games as much as a game could own 'capture the flag', which is not at all close to what you could claim as intellectual property. 

It doesn't matter that epic made some shitty ripoff as a cash grab, it matters that bluehole can't shut their fucking mouths and work on fixing their clearly more popular and superior game. They weren't 'concerned', they outright bitched and threatened legal action. And the response to them from players is due in part to their already terrible reputation. Making a game means competition, and if a competitor arises, and they can't handle that as the already established heavyweight for this newly popular (though long existing) genre, it's sad.

 

BTW I"m not sure I've ever seen a game made in UE with such a large budget to work with have so many problems. I can tell you from  even my minor experience with 3, smooth god damn experience. Better than many other things I've worked with. And in 4 they have made it so you can literally make an entire game with drag and drop logic called 'blueprints' to avoid actual coding. My guess is they are heavily utilizing the workflow optimization and premade elements of the engine and know little about the core engine they're working with, the underlying code. I'm not saying they're using blueprints, (not even sure how good they are since I haven't worked with them yet) but I think what they are making is slapped on top of unreal in a really sloppy manner, and without ue4 or something like it that cuts out a large portion of the work for them, they would not have been able to make this game. I guarantee 90% of the actual code or more is Epics, and they just made their own assets and entered their own values for stuff like physics, threw some snippets of code on top of that, made small modifications here and there. I think Epic's 5% cut is more than deserved. 

1) i've not seen anyone threaten anything, please link official posts showing anything more than concern. Concern and looking into if some action should be taken is nowhere near threatening. All the while stating that they clearly do not own a game mode and it was never actually about the game mode.
2) you're clearly way to angry at a very popular thing. you've gone off the topic and just decided to shit talk the game in its current state (still in alpha by teh way) instead of actually backing your argument. Ride. The. Bandwagon. Boi.

3) if you think 90 percent of a game made in UE can be made with Epics code you clearly have absolutely zero understanding of how the engine functions or game development works in general. I've worked in UE (albeit only a small 6 month project) and we went into it thinking we could use mostly EPIC code and blueprints and i assure you its not even remotely close to the truth. If you want to create anything thats not a UnrealEngine tutorial piece then its 90 percent your code strung together using (the insanely helpful) Blueprint system.

[The Benjamins]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:53 AM, Trik'Stari said:

IIRC isn't PUBG a ripoff of DayZ without the Zombies?

 

I really can't wait for these 1-life-per-round style games to just die off.

I like the 1 life per round style.

 

Dayz is suppose to be a PVE first PVP second, PUBG is PVP only I don't see how its a rip off when its not even the same type of game.

Dayz, Loot to survive from zombies.

Pubg, Loot to KILL ALL HUMANS.

[linustouchtips]

i actually prefer fortnite love the art style & gp i build big glorious walls to keep me safe

[Syntaxvgm]

10 hours ago, Brainless906 said:

1) i've not seen anyone threaten anything, please link official posts showing anything more than concern. Concern and looking into if some action should be taken is nowhere near threatening. All the while stating that they clearly do not own a game mode and it was never actually about the game mode.
 

Oh ffs it's the article for the topic? Did you even read the title? "Considering further action" Is typical y a threat of legal action. They didn't even wait until they knew they had a case (and they know they don't) , they wanted to wave that threat out there. 

10 hours ago, Brainless906 said:

2) you're clearly way to angry at a very popular thing. you've gone off the topic and just decided to shit talk the game in its current state (still in alpha by teh way) instead of actually backing your argument. Ride. The. Bandwagon. Boi.

 

No, fuck em, I don't give a shit. I've never played this game. It's clear they have a very unhappy community, and they act like cunts to that community. I jumped in because a game dev just threatened legal action for someone make a similar game. Fuck them, that feeling is very clear to me. 

 

10 hours ago, Brainless906 said:

 

3) if you think 90 percent of a game made in UE can be made with Epics code you clearly have absolutely zero understanding of how the engine functions or game development works in general. I've worked in UE (albeit only a small 6 month project) and we went into it thinking we could use mostly EPIC code and blueprints and i assure you its not even remotely close to the truth. If you want to create anything thats not a UnrealEngine tutorial piece then its 90 percent your code strung together using (the insanely helpful) Blueprint system.

...I don't think you know how much is in that engine vs other engines? 

Their assets, animations, menus, scripts for gameplay, matching-making, and the list goes on is all bluehole. In fact, it's very impressive they did it originally with whatever their budget and team size was, presumably small. But I guarantee they didn't change the underlying psychics, the rendering, the animations were wipe ass to import, and so on. Have ever worked with more simplistic shit? I did a ton of stuff with the quake 3 engine and some offshoots, it's night and day the amount of work you have to do. 

But let me be clear about this, when I say it's 90% of the code, it's not 90% their work. Bluehole still did a ton of work, that 10% is a lot of changes, and everything else they made, that huge map and all the assets, just a huge portion of the final codebase is Epic. I'm saying epic deserves 5%. These days assets are the main challenge and all you have to add is a bunch of scripts and minor changes over the engine. 

 

Also you say the blueprint system is insanely helpful- do you feel you can do most of what you want with it? Is it easy to mix blueprints and regular scripts? A 2 person project I'm gonna start soon has me doing all the coding, and if blueprints are truly that good maybe I can offload some of that to the other guy who isn't that confident (though has some coding classes under his belt). I haven't messed with 4 much, and we chose 4 based on experience with 3 and the licensing. 

 

[Misanthrope]

Well I tried Fornite earlier and I wouldn't really worry too much: It probably won't do much, if anything, to PUBG since it's late and just as fucking mediocre.

[Trik'Stari]

11 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

I like the 1 life per round style.

 

Dayz is suppose to be a PVE first PVP second, PUBG is PVP only I don't see how its a rip off when its not even the same type of game.

Dayz, Loot to survive from zombies.

Pubg, Loot to KILL ALL HUMANS.

DayZ ends up being "shoot other people for fun when they're picking up a can of beans". Not seeing much of a difference since the zombies aren't much of a threat due to the ARMA engine being rather bad (IMHO)

 

I just don't like the 1 life per round style. It's boring and you barely get trigger time.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Not seeing much of a difference since the zombies aren't much of a threat due to the ARMA engine being rather bad (IMHO)

(FACT)

 

FTFY

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

(FACT)

 

FTFY

Oh I thought it might just be me. That engine is so clunky and buggy. No idea how people do military sims on it.

 

I died because I opened a fence gate whilst prone, and the fence gate broke my leg.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Oh I thought it might just be me. That engine is so clunky and buggy. No idea how people do military sims on it.

Draw distance is tied only to the CPU... So, CPU gets hammered while GPU doesn't render the object. And people think Pentiums and i5's are to blame for the poor performance...

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

I died because I opened a fence gate whilst prone, and the fence gate broke my leg.

I can actually believe that happening!

[Misanthrope]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

DayZ ends up being "shoot other people for fun when they're picking up a can of beans". Not seeing much of a difference since the zombies aren't much of a threat due to the ARMA engine being rather bad (IMHO)

 

I just don't like the 1 life per round style. It's boring and you barely get trigger time.

Pretty much this: If the game was fairly agile at match making I would be happier but it's usually wait a few minutes to join, wait some more to start, land and get your shit pushed in immediately so go back to fucking waiting.

 

I know what most people will say the solution is:

 

Spoiler

git gud

 

But I don't find it enjoyable to have such a learning curve and luck of the draw.

[Trik'Stari]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Pretty much this: If the game was fairly agile at match making I would be happier but it's usually wait a few minutes to join, wait some more to start, land and get your shit pushed in immediately so go back to fucking waiting.

 

I know what most people will say the solution is:

 

  Hide contents

git gud

 

But I don't find it enjoyable to have such a learning curve and luck of the draw.

How about "play battlefield where you can respawn in 10 seconds and have a nice half hour of trigger time"

 

I prefer that. To those who can't handle the chaos I say, Git Gud, learn to play as a team.

 

I've been 3rd on a team of 32, with 3 kills and 20 deaths, because I was a medic and got more heals and revives than anyone else.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

How about "play battlefield where you can respawn in 10 seconds and have a nice half hour of trigger time"

I prefer CoD on PS4. Respawn time of 5 seconds and you get to kill squeakers.

[Trik'Stari]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I prefer CoD on PS4. Respawn time of 5 seconds and you get to kill squeakers.

CoD has too many cheap shit tactics. Battlefield actually requires a lot of team tactics to win. There's no quick scoping, no belly flopping, no noob tube (at least not in BF1), etc.

 

Also, and this is one thing that I will stand by as fact, Battlefield has the absolute best sound design of ANY first person shooter. Bar none. Turn on war tapes and get a good pair of headphones and get your ears blown away.

[Drak3]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Battlefield actually requires a lot of team tactics to win.

People keep saying that. Never witnessed it.

 

1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

Also, and this is one thing that I will stand by as fact, Battlefield has the absolute best sound design of ANY first person shooter. Bar none. Turn on war tapes and get a good pair of headphones and get your ears blown away.

Alternative solution, I can just fire real guns. And when it comes down to it, Battlefield's sounds are lack luster. CoD's depends on the game, but aren't much better.

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

People keep saying that. Never witnessed it.

 

Alternative solution, I can just fire real guns. And when it comes down to it, Battlefield's sounds are lack luster. CoD's depends on the game, but aren't much better.

Are you sure you have War Tapes turned on in your audio settings? It makes a huge difference.

 

And yeah, shooting real guns is fun, but expensive as hell. As for team tactics, how do you think one team steamrolls another in that game? Because they know the maps and know how to play them as a team. Knowing how to attack an objective and how to defend one, is key.

 

I am talking conquest, not TDM

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Battlefield actually requires a lot of team tactics to win.

Including the ever-popular "two guys stand in a poorly designed well-defended room and allow two other squadmates to continuously respawn only to die trying to leave the room" assault tactic. 

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Including the ever-popular "two guys stand in a poorly designed well-defended room and allow two other squadmates to continuously respawn only to die trying to leave the room" assault tactic. 

It does work.

 

Worked a hell of a lot better before DICE decided that medics can only get shit weapons and have next to no offensive capabilities. Back in BFBC2 when they had light machine guns, it worked much better.

[Drak3]

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

As for team tactics, how do you think one team steamrolls another in that game?

Again, never actually witnessed it. Always boiled down to a fairly close game, or a team of skilless squeekers vs Drak3 and some people copying Drak3.

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Are you sure you have War Tapes turned on in your audio settings? It makes a huge difference.

Sounds different, but still doesn't sound like a real gun, not any closer than other effects.

[Brainless906]

15 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Oh ffs it's the article for the topic? Did you even read the title? "Considering further action" Is typical y a threat of legal action. They didn't even wait until they knew they had a case (and they know they don't) , they wanted to wave that threat out there. 

No, fuck em, I don't give a shit. I've never played this game. It's clear they have a very unhappy community, and they act like cunts to that community. I jumped in because a game dev just threatened legal action for someone make a similar game. Fuck them, that feeling is very clear to me. 

 

...I don't think you know how much is in that engine vs other engines? 

Their assets, animations, menus, scripts for gameplay, matching-making, and the list goes on is all bluehole. In fact, it's very impressive they did it originally with whatever their budget and team size was, presumably small. But I guarantee they didn't change the underlying psychics, the rendering, the animations were wipe ass to import, and so on. Have ever worked with more simplistic shit? I did a ton of stuff with the quake 3 engine and some offshoots, it's night and day the amount of work you have to do. 

But let me be clear about this, when I say it's 90% of the code, it's not 90% their work. Bluehole still did a ton of work, that 10% is a lot of changes, and everything else they made, that huge map and all the assets, just a huge portion of the final codebase is Epic. I'm saying epic deserves 5%. These days assets are the main challenge and all you have to add is a bunch of scripts and minor changes over the engine. 

 

Also you say the blueprint system is insanely helpful- do you feel you can do most of what you want with it? Is it easy to mix blueprints and regular scripts? A 2 person project I'm gonna start soon has me doing all the coding, and if blueprints are truly that good maybe I can offload some of that to the other guy who isn't that confident (though has some coding classes under his belt). I haven't messed with 4 much, and we chose 4 based on experience with 3 and the licensing. 

 

1) I dont think "considering further action" is any kind of legal threat. I take that as looking into potential problems to see if something needs to be done. A legal threat would be a cease and desist. Stop doing this thing or we will sue you. Thats a threat.

2) Outrage against Bluehole is, in my opinion, extremely overblown by large communities (such as the subreddit), especially in teh case of an outsider not actually looking at a majority of the community from within. a majority of the playerbase i've interacted with absolutely love the game and the only thing thats chaffed us in the wrong way is the loot boxes. Fuck the lootboxes. Any community this large will have a large vocal minority that are always angry about something. This is like saying CS:GO is a shit game and everyone hates it because most of the top posts about it on Reddit and other large forums are negative. This is clearly not the case. Its the same with other large games with massive vocal minorities, such as the group thats been calling WoW shit and dead for the past 8 goddamn years.

A game with a community that is actually, in a majority, upset, will not exist very long. The reason CS:GO, PUBG, WoW still exist dispite most "news" about them being negative is because they are still good games and still, in a majority, loved by the communities.

3) The best way i can describe blueprints is creating  chunks of c++ code that have variables that you can string together quickly and easily using the blueprint system. In the case of our small team (2 people lol) it ended up being ~75 - 25 split. 75 percent of time was writing chunks of code, 25 percent stringing it together with blueprints. Basically Blueprints do not in any way replace Coding, it simply compliments coding.

4) i'm not saying EPIC doenst deserve their 5 percent, im just saying that copying an item that they are getting a 5 percent from seems potentially sketchy. lets I offer a service that will manufacture boats and The BOATYMCBOAT company hires my company to manufacture the MCBOAT V1 at 5 percent of each MCBOAT V1 sold and it does extremely well. They designed the MCBOAT V1 around my manufacture process but it is a 100 percent designed and owned by them. Then half a year later I myself using the same process I start producing a TOTALLYNOTMCBOAT V1 that looks slightly different but is otherwise quite similar to the now extremely popular MCBOAT V1 and it starts doing well based on the popularity of the MCBOAT V1 that my platform is also currently producing, but now i'm taking 100 percent of the profits for my TOTALLYNOTMCBOAT V1 (I even go as far as to mention how its very simular to the MCBOAT V1 in my advertisements). The problem isnt so much that a competitor started making a product extremely similar to the product, its more that the company that was entrusted to produce the design at cost is now making a competing product that is extremely similar to the product they've been paid to produce.

an instance like this would be taken extremely seriously in the world of physical production and i think it should be taken seriously in the digital world as well. Legal action taken or not i think its at the very least enough to raise an eyebrow at.

[Lach1230]

On 23/09/2017 at 3:04 PM, Syntaxvgm said:

Yah know, I have to say, I've been watching people play PUBG a lot, but the one thing that stops me from buying PUBG is the creators are absolute...dick rags. 

 

 

On 23/09/2017 at 11:02 PM, Okjoek said:

I like free shit. And PUBG is unplayable anyways due to piss poor optimization.

 

On 23/09/2017 at 3:54 PM, STRMfrmXMN said:

Fortnite is a great game but this mode is obviously a grab at PUBG players who hate the PUBG lack of optimization. 

If you have played PUBG for longer than a few weeks you will know that statements like these are not true.

PUBG's performance was abhorrent to begin with. I remember playing in the very early days of it being out (just after pre-purchase) and being at 20-30fps and 10-15 when in a city.

Fast forward to today, and I am sitting at a solid 60, with some dips down to 40-50 with lots of grenades and smokes going off in cities.

 

As for the statements about not putting money into anything, they are constantly posting dev notes, talking about their upcoming new map release, and shit they release a patch every week for bugfixes.

 

As for comments about who is ripping it off who in a game sense, are you all forgetting that PlaywerUnknown (Lead Dev on PUBG) was the one who created the ARMA2: DayZ: Battle Royale game mode? 

 

I thought the title of the game may give it away, but hey.

 

He also worked as one of the lead dev's on H1Z1 - so to be honest this seems like Bluehole putting their weight behind the original creator who's actually having his own work being ripped off for the first time. (Considering he's worked on all the previous iterations of BR-esk games.)