Major Apple leak: iPhone 8 info, IOS 11 and a new iPhone X

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, abazigal said:

That’s because people are paying more for a better user experience, which is what Apple continues to give us with their products despite the removal features, or perhaps, precisely because of the removal of certain features. 

 

Could the MacBook Air have been as light as thin as it was without Apple being courageous enough to remove features such as the cd drive and the various display ports? And guess what? Many people valued the thinner and lighter form factor far more than they mourned the loss of all those other features. To them, it was a worthwhile tradeoff. 

 

More isn’t always better, especially when you are not getting more of what you want, but instead, being saddled more problems to contend with. Complexity is not the key selling point here which customers value. 

 

Simplicity is. 

And having to carry around 15 different dongles and converters to be able to connect anything to your Macbook is somehow simpler than just having a built in connection?

 

The fact each dongle and adapter costs an extra $80 to $100 has nothing at all to do with it, right?

 

Can you explain why you simplicity personified company doesn't allow their own Macbook to connect to their own iPhone without an $80 converter?

[Drak3]

4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

If they cared about the experience then they'd buy Android and yet they still buy into the hugely restricted walled garden that is Apples ecosystem.

Have you ever used Android? The only ways to get a good experience from the OS is to buy high end hardware or have low expectations that basically come down to: call, text, basic internet, photos.

[Master Disaster]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Have you ever used Android? The only ways to get a good experience from the OS is to buy high end hardware or have low expectations that basically come down to: call, text, basic internet, photos.

That depends on your requirements, I'd take a mid range Android I can fully control over a high end Apple I can't any day of the week.

[Drak3]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

That depends on your requirements, I'd take a mid range Android I can fully control over a high end Apple I can't any day of the week.

I'd take an iPhone with a broken screen over midrange Android garbage, for just the basics.

Anything above call and text, either high end Android, iPhone, or a mid range Windows phone.

[RedRound2]

15 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm still trying to figure out how Apple Pay is supposed to work with facial recognition.....because two of the three ways I can think of it working suck. 

• Do I have to open Apple pay, authorize it, and then touch my phone to the receiver?
• Do I have to stand on a chair so that I can look down at the phone while it touches the receiver?
• Will it be able to accurately do facial recognition at very high angles? 

According to the report, Face ID will passively authorize the moment you glance at your phone right before you make a payment.

https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/10/iphone-x-processor-wireless-charging-more/

Quote

The iOS 11 GM also offers a bit more information about the side power button, which is believed to be much larger on the iPhone X than on previous devices. It appears as if the power button will be integral to the Apple Pay process as Face ID will passively authenticate the payment, but you’ll have to double click the power button to confirm it.

Also in another report, I did see that Face ID is actually much faster and more secure than Touch ID unlike Samsung's implementation

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/iphone-8-face-id-said-to-be-faster-and-more-secure-than-touch-id.html

 

If Apple does this right, which I believe because they usually perfect these kinds of things before releasing it, it's going to be huuge. The only security issue here that I can think of is that anyone could wave the phone in front of your face to unlock it and the only solution I can come up with is to couple this with Touch ID also. Oh well, maybe the next iPhone.

[79wjd]

Quote

If they cared about the experience then they'd buy Android and yet they still buy into the hugely restricted walled garden that is Apples ecosystem.

So much so no. I've used Android and I still wouldn't touch an Android device. I have an SP3 and I'd trade it for an iPad Pro in a heart beat. I have a W7/8/10 desktop and if I could game on Mac OS, then again, I'd trade it for a Mac in a heartbeat. 

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

And having to carry around 15 different dongles and converters to be able to connect anything to your Macbook is somehow simpler than just having a built in connection?

The vast majority of people aren't plugging things into their computers frequently.....Do you want to know the last thing I plugged something into my laptop? 

 

I honestly can't even remember because I don't do it. 

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The fact each dongle and adapter costs an extra $80 to $100 has nothing at all to do with it, right?

First off, they don't, and secondly it's a wonderful thing that USB-C should be replacing everything now that Apple has forced developers to actually give a shit about it. If Apple doesn't push the standard then it won't get adopted and people and designers will just stick with the old. 

Quote

Can you explain why you simplicity personified company doesn't allow their own Macbook to connect to their own iPhone without an $80 converter?

I never said they make all good decisions. The iPhone should have came with a type-c and a type-a cable. 

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-1-m 

Yeah....$80. mmmmmhm. Or you can just search on Amazon and buy one of dozens of different options for around $10. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

If Apple does this right, which I believe because they usually perfect these kinds of things before releasing it, it's going to be huuge. The only security issue here that I can think of is that anyone could wave the phone in front of your face to unlock it and the only solution I can come up with is to couple this with Touch ID also. Oh well, maybe the next iPhone.

If you're going to steal someone's phone, then you can also force them to put their finger on the fingerprint sensor. If the timeout for Face ID is in the space of 30 seconds then no one could steal your phone and make a payment with it anymore than they could with Touch ID. 

[Asche]

4 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Wait, iphone X? Does that means they're going Microsoft on us and skipping 9?

Microsoft and Apple, 9+9 =18

6+6+6=18

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED !

 

Sorry i had to make that joke

[shermantanker]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I would disagree, most people who buy new Apple hardware do so because it's Apple and the Apple brand says a lot about people's status.

 

If they cared about the experience then they'd buy Android and yet they still buy into the hugely restricted walled garden that is Apples ecosystem.

 

I genuinely know a lady who has 2 iMacs, one in her living room and one in her bedroom and these iMacs never get used, she has them solely so that people who come to her house can see she has Apple computers. When your entire business ethic has always been form over function you start to attract a very specific clientele.

I care about the experience, and that is why I buy iPhones. Not everyone (including me) wants a super computer in my pocket. Something simple, stable, well designed, and supported (the 5s a 4 year old device is getting IOS11, and how many phones are getting Oreo??? lol). I have had android in the past and hated it. Even tried swapping my ipad a few years ago with a nexus tablet, and sold it after 3 months. Android is all over the place, and their battery management is still trash.

[RedRound2]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

If you're going to steal someone's phone, then you can also force them to put their finger on the fingerprint sensor. If the timeout for Face ID is in the space of 30 seconds then no one could steal your phone and make a payment with it anymore than they could with Touch ID. 

Wasn't talking about payment, it'll usually be a public place. Say you were at your home, and one of your nosy friend could take your iPhone from that table and unlock it by waving it your face. But when it comes to Touch ID, it's a lot more harder to force someone to put their finger on it. Another way they can solve this to a certain degree is to use accelerometer and gyroscope to ensure its a natural gesture and also limit the distance at which the sensor works. 

 

I'm not talking about extreme cases rather just general issue. 

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Wasn't talking about payment, it'll usually be a public place. Say you were at your home, and one of your nosy friend could take your iPhone from that table and unlock it by waving it your face. But when it comes to Touch ID, it's a lot more harder to force someone to put their finger on it. Another way they can solve this to a certain degree is to use accelerometer and gyroscope to ensure its a natural gesture and also limit the distance at which the sensor works. 

 

I'm not talking about extreme cases rather just general issue. 

I would say you need new friends in that case....But as you said, there are ways to mitigate that potential issue.

[mrchow19910319]

[abazigal]

23 hours ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

Lol, you just made this comment to a forum of tech fans/enthusiasts.

 

And what better place to do so?

 

People don't seem to realize that simplicity is far harder than complexity. It's easy to add in a million buttons, toggles, switches, and features. What's hard is doing that in a dead-simple manner that is logical, coherent, and easy to use.

 

That's why so many techies continue to be baffled by Apple's success. People with an engineering mindset don't understand design, and so when they see Apple's incredible success, they just can't wrap their brains around the fact that it's good design that leads to this success. So instead, they convince themselves that Apple only makes money because they're a cult that brainwashes millions of people through product marketing. That's the only way that people who don't understand design are able to make sense of things.

 

In this day and age, why are there still so many people trying to explain away Apple's success, when we should be trying to explain it?

23 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

And having to carry around 15 different dongles and converters to be able to connect anything to your Macbook is somehow simpler than just having a built in connection?

 

The fact each dongle and adapter costs an extra $80 to $100 has nothing at all to do with it, right?

 

Can you explain why you simplicity personified company doesn't allow their own Macbook to connect to their own iPhone without an $80 converter?

Because you likely won't need to plug in your iPhone to your laptop much, if ever. If you want to hotspot, macOS has this feature which lets you turn on your phone's hotspot directly from your Mac. If you want to transfer files, there's airdrop for that (or Instashare, because hotspot disables airdrop, to my chagrin), assuming you aren't already keeping them in sync via cloud services. If you desperately need to charge your phone from your Macbook, there's the USB-C to lightning cable for that, which costs less. 

 

And you don't actually have to carry around that many adaptors. Depending on your needs (which will vary from person to person), it's really just 1-3 adaptors at most. And you can even drive that number down to zero if you believe enough. 

 

In case you are wondering whether I am grasping at straws, this is precisely me at work (I am an elementary school teacher). I use a 2012 MBA, and I haven't really plugged in much except for the occasional USB drive. My classroom has an Apple TV which I can mirror my MBA off if need be (but I use my iPad Pro more for teaching). AirPods. Hotspot. Airdrop. Dropbox and iCloud. My desk has a monitor with a HDMI-to-minidisplay adaptor connected to the HDMI cable permanently. When I need to work on my MBA, it's really just my laptop and my phone (and maybe the MagSafe charger). No other cables, no adaptors, nothing. 

 

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I’m just a sucker for controversial trade-offs. Companies that dare say “this one thing is more important than this entire set of other things people usually consider must-haves” take a shortcut to my wallet, and Apple is perhaps the one company who does best. The Macbook gives up virtually everything else in pursuit of thinness, and I am prepared to accept them if and when the time comes to upgrade my MBA.

 

But at the end of the day, I feel this is how generational shifts work - first you try to force the new tool to fit the old workflow, and then the new tool creates a new workflow (sometimes out of sheer necessity, since my workflow has to support an iPad, which pretty much necessitates a cloud-first mentality). Both parts are painful and full of denial, but the new model is ultimately much better than the old. 

 

And my reward for embracing the Apple ecosystem in the way I have is that I have a thin and light laptop which is easier to carry around. The downside of a laptop with a myriad of ports is that those ports are there regardless of whether I need them or not. I look at the way I use my devices, and I would rather use adaptors for the infrequent occasion when I need to hook it up to something, in exchange for not needing to put up with excess thickness / weight when I don't need them. 

 

I hope I am not rambling.  

[TidaLWaveZ]

1 hour ago, abazigal said:

And what better place to do so?

 

People don't seem to realize that simplicity is far harder than complexity. It's easy to add in a million buttons, toggles, switches, and features. What's hard is doing that in a dead-simple manner that is logical, coherent, and easy to use.

 

That's why so many techies continue to be baffled by Apple's success. People with an engineering mindset don't understand design, and so when they see Apple's incredible success, they just can't wrap their brains around the fact that it's good design that leads to this success. So instead, they convince themselves that Apple only makes money because they're a cult that brainwashes millions of people through product marketing. That's the only way that people who don't understand design are able to make sense of things.

 

In this day and age, why are there still so many people trying to explain away Apple's success, when we should be trying to explain it?

"And what better place to do so?"

 

A better place would be to the majority of Apple's consumers which are the opposite of tech fans/enthusiasts. They don't want to know or have to learn anything, they just want that button that works. True techies want every bleeding edge feature and to be able to manipulate it in every way possible.

 

"It's easy to add in a million buttons, toggles, switches, and features. What's hard is doing that in a dead-simple manner that is logical, coherent, and easy to use."

 

That argument would make sense but iOS doesn't provide the buttons, toggles, switches, and features thus they don't provide those things at all nevertheless in a dead-simple manner. I don't even know where you're going with this idea of simplicity being harder than complexity, I think you're talking about ease of access but in this case it's just wrong. It's much easier to make an extremely limited OS than to have all the options and features, far less work.

 

I'm not even going to lie the rest of what you said, from the third paragraph on, is just so ignorant that it made me sick reading it. 

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, abazigal said:

People don't seem to realize that simplicity is far harder than complexity.

No it's not.  Simplicity is - by the very definition of the word - simpler than something complex.  What you're describing is 'minimalism', not simplicity.  And there is such a thing as going overboard with the minimalist approach, which I would argue Apple has done for many years now.

[RedRound2]

20 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I would say you need new friends in that case....But as you said, there are ways to mitigate that potential issue.

It was a hypothetical thing. It's a situation that I extrapolated into friends or for that case maybe a police officer or something invading into people's personal space

[RedRound2]

56 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

No it's not.  Simplicity is - by the very definition of the word - simpler than something complex.  What you're describing is 'minimalism', not simplicity.  And there is such a thing as going overboard with the minimalist approach, which I would argue Apple has done for many years now.

Simplicity at the user side. To implement simplicity it's far more complex. AI and ML are going to make things so much easier but it's extremely harder to implement

[Drak3]

59 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

which I would argue Apple has done for many years now

Agree on iPhone's GUI and hardware. OSX, disagree.

 

4 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Simplicity at the user side. To implement simplicity it's far more complex.

Sure, if the designer is stupid.

[Tataffe]

4 hours ago, abazigal said:

snip

You get it. But I'm afraid you're explaining to doorknobs in this place. Especially those numerous people who are agressively ignoring how much they benefit from Apple constantly driving the whole industry forward. Examples: High-DPI displays (and high-FPS displays on mobile right now), reversible connectors with robust sockets, lifespan of devices including ongoing OS updates ...

 

People on here seem to have an ongoing issue differentiating between numbers of any kind and quality of the experience. And instead of reading up and trying to understand why Apple is so successful (as I'd expect true tech enthusiasts to do), they rather talk shit. You won't see any renowned tech journalist do that, guess why.

[Jito463]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Agree on iPhone's GUI and hardware. OSX, disagree.

I was specifically commenting on Apples hardware.  As for their OS, I couldn't say either way, as I don't interact with Apple products enough to say one way or the other.

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, Tataffe said:

High-DPI displays

Not something Apple pushed in any regard.

You can thank enthusiasts that live on the bleeding edge for that way before you can Apple.

7 minutes ago, Tataffe said:

high-FPS displays on mobile right now

Apple pushes it knowing that it won't be used as often as people think. Their panels default to 60hz outsode of games and art apps that explicitly make use of it, at the cost of battery life.

While manufacturers mught follow at thr high end, the benefit is extremely small, and likely not worth any trade off.

9 minutes ago, Tataffe said:

reversible connectors with robust sockets,

"Robust," and looking to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist. And realistically, they haven't done anything new, just a slightly different version of what the competition was already moving towards. Only difference, is Apple doesn't offer a compatibility layer natively at any capacity, other than maintaining sales of a select few ilder models.

12 minutes ago, Tataffe said:

You get it.

He doesn't, and you don't. A few people use Apple products because what they're doing benefits from OSX or a piece of software that only runs on OSX.

Some prefer the GUI over Windows, or the level of polish over Linux.

But too many people buy for the logo on the back.

 

You can easily get an experience just as great as Apple's by buying into hardware of the same or similar class, whilst sometimes spending less.

15 minutes ago, Tataffe said:

You won't see any renowned tech journalist do that, guess why.

Because the cult of Apple dismisses those as being liars, antifanboys, etc. to the point that uninformed people believe them. And Apple hasn't exactly been the nicest when recieving sime of the harsher critisms either.

[Drak3]

11 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I was specifically commenting on Apples hardware.  As for their OS, I couldn't say either way, as I don't interact with Apple products enough to say one way or the other.

Can't agree on the Mac Pro, Mac Mini, or the higher end iMacs.

Agree on the current MacBook and MBP13. The 4 thunderbolt ports on the 15" are fine, though I would trade one for a type A.

[handymanshandle]

On 9/10/2017 at 4:55 PM, djdwosk97 said:

I'm still trying to figure out how Apple Pay is supposed to work with facial recognition.....because two of the three ways I can think of it working suck. 

• Do I have to open Apple pay, authorize it, and then touch my phone to the receiver?
• Do I have to stand on a chair so that I can look down at the phone while it touches the receiver?
• Will it be able to accurately do facial recognition at very high angles? 

Well due to mixed success of Samsung's iris scanning on my S8+ and known insecurities of their face recognition I have a hard time believing that Apple actually made a more secure face recognition thingy

[suicidalfranco]

8 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Well due to mixed success of Samsung's iris scanning on my S8+ and known insecurities of their face recognition I have a hard time believing that Apple actually made a more secure face recognition thingy

aaaaaaaaaaand the demo fails 

wonder if this will be the new windows '98 bsod during press unveil 

[RedRound2]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:56 AM, Drak3 said:

 OSX, disagree.

I've used it and I like it. And so do others. So it's a personal opinion rather than a fact

Quote

Sure, if the designer is stupid.

Did you just convinently not read later part of the sentence? 

 

On 9/12/2017 at 1:58 PM, wcreek said:

Well due to mixed success of Samsung's iris scanning on my S8+ and known insecurities of their face recognition I have a hard time believing that Apple actually made a more secure face recognition thingy

Samsung is known for making half baked shit. I would be really surprised if Apple's tech would be so prone to errors especially after they showed how even mask replicas wouldn't even work. 

 

But so far from what I've seen, I am not really impressed by it. That demo fail wasn't any help at all and I wonder how would it work with identical twins, since I know one and both of them look extremely similar to each other that I myself often get confused

Edited September 13, 2017 by SansVarnic

[TheReal1980]

On 2017-09-12 at 9:08 PM, suicidalfranco said:

aaaaaaaaaaand the demo fails 

wonder if this will be the new windows '98 bsod during press unveil 

The demo did not fail actually, he was supposed to input the pin code first but he forgot. "Your passcode is required to enable Face ID" it said on the phone and this happens after you boot it up, same as with Touch ID, so I don't understand what the deal is?