Microsoft cuts off Windows 10 (Creators Update) support early for some PCs

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Good times

Steve Ballmer: I love my Mac!

 

[mr moose]

49 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

For these particular chips, aren't the GPUs designed by Imagination Technologies? Considering what's going on with them, what of their driver support I wonder? 

 

I just read some tweets from intel in the thread I linked earlier claiming the GPU's are still supported but Intel will not be updating drivers for the CPU itself.

 

EDIT: further reading suggest it is supported by OEM's so support may vary depending on who made the machine.   Either way it doesn't look good for most owners.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Imagination Technologies? Considering what's going on with them,

I have a feeling Apple threatened to leave so that their companies value would plummet and Apple would buy them out. Seeing what Apple can do with there SoCs leaves so much excitement for what they might be able to do it they make their own GPUs. 

[Drexl]

Your OP is not compatible with the LTT forums dark theme. Pasted text should be pasted with ctrl+shift+v to remove formatting so it doesn't become black text on a dark grey background and near impossible to read.

[Drak3]

11 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well the dialog that pops up makes it look like they're forcing you to uninstall Windows 10 because it's no longer supported.  I guess this isn't so bad then... sounds pretty reasonable tbh.

That's an error.

 

7 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

But why? Atom is probably the one that pushed Windows 8 on a tablet concept.

Because Intel and OEMs don't support it. Atom is largely a flop for Intel, even though it was good for something, unlike some budget ARM chips.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

For these particular chips, aren't the GPUs designed by Imagination Technologies? Considering what's going on with them, what of their driver support I wonder? 

Yup, Clover trail is not even using Intel's own HD Graphics but a PowerVR Series 5 GPU from Imagination Technologies, the same company where Apple is getting GPUs for their own SoCs for their iPhones and iPads. Clover trail is using the same GPU as the iPhone 4 from 2010. Makes sense if they're no longer supporting it since the graphics drivers are old. Even Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4.

[Delicieuxz]

12 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Many of these are valid but I do have some questions about a few...

At no point did this ever happen that I'm aware of.  Sure, there were lots of installations that happened against peoples' will, but, as far as I know, every single one was a result of the people failing to pass their will on to the computer and simply assuming that it would read their minds.

Installed against peoples will and without their consent, in many cases in direct violation to peoples' command to not install the OS, accurately describes an action of force. Each case where Microsoft treated the red X on the Windows 10 installation window as though it signaled consent to install the OS is a case of violating a person's direction to Microsoft to NOT install Windows 10. There was a button to signal the affirmative action to install Windows 10, and closing the window while decidedly not hitting that button was a clear expression of will, just as is convention in all software. Microsoft deliberately sabotaged the meaning of convention, and pretended that not clicking the installation option still meant to install Windows 10.

 

On my Windows 7 system at that time, which had automatic updates turned off (as I always do), the Windows Update setting was unilaterally changed or ignored by Microsoft and Windows 10 was downloaded and installed on my system while I wasn't present.

 

Quote

Quote

forced Windows apps (Windows Store),

What does this even mean?

It refers to the forced installation of Microsoft applications that cannot be uninstalled, such as the Windows Store - which cannot be removed on Windows editions other than Enterprise.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

17 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well the dialog that pops up makes it look like they're forcing you to uninstall Windows 10 because it's no longer supported.  I guess this isn't so bad then... sounds pretty reasonable tbh.

The thing is, MS is sequentially cutting support to older builds of Win 10 (I believe is 18-month old builds), so if they can't update to the latest build, they will be cut off any update, including security updates. It's sort of catch 22: you can't update to the latest version, and you can't get support beyond 18 months since the release of the latest version.

 

Of course, users can solve this by upgrading to Windows 7 or re-installing the original OS (I believe most these systems shipped with some Windows 8 or another), which will get you covered with "monthly quality and security rollups" (?) for longer (Microsoft is more stringent with old builds of Win 10 than with older versions of Windows. Which makes sense, because their builds' system would increase fragmentation, and Win 10 market share is still not that big. It's their choice to push build after build, but given that choice, it could be more difficult to support the myriad of builds than to just support Win 7).

It just feels bad that all the nudging about "free upgrade to Windows 10" ended up in some early obsolescence trap for these users. Had they remained in the pre-installed OS, they would have less to worry about.

[captain_to_fire]

10 minutes ago, Drexl said:

Your OP is not compatible with the LTT forums dark theme. Pasted text should be pasted with ctrl+shift+v to remove formatting so it doesn't become black text on a dark grey background and near impossible to read.

Fine. I can't wait for someone to complain about a post not compatible to day theme users. 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Installed against peoples will and without their consent,

This is very precisely correct.  Yeah, their behaviour was definitely wrong.  But, there is a difference (if only technically) between saying it is going to do something, giving you an option to say "no", and then proceeding to do that thing if you didn't say "no", and just outright doing it without asking or asking and then ignoring your response.  To the best of my knowledge it followed the path of the former and neither of the last two.

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

in many cases in direct violation to peoples' command to not install the OS, 

ok this is where we differ. I had never heard of this happening... did it actually?  So you're saying it straight up ignored people's request to not install, or didn't bother asking at all!?   That would be pretty serious... but again, I do not recall even a single story about this happening.   Would be interesting to read if you've got them.

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

. Each case where Microsoft treated the red X on the Windows 10 installation window as though it signaled consent to install the OS is a case of violating a person's direction to Microsoft to NOT install Windows 10.

Uhh... I don't think so.  TBH, they should have actually disabled the "x" as is done on certain windows that demand a response one way or the other, but in this case clicking the "x" means dismiss this dialog, unchanged.  ie, "I'm good with the current setting" (ie, install the OS or do not install the OS, or whatever the other options were).

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

On my Windows 7 system at that time, which had automatic updates turned off (as I always do), the Windows Update setting was unilaterally changed or ignored by Microsoft and Windows 10 was downloaded and installed on my system while I wasn't present.

Also very interesting and not something I'd ever heard of happening, or could even imagine happening .  I always had it set to "let me know when they're ready but don't download or install" and I simply didn't install the update that added the windows 10 logo to the task bar (which was what would continually prompt people for the update and eventually perform it if you didn't tell it not to).  Never had a single prompt to upgrade, or any other issues... was I really just that lucky, or is there more to this story?

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

It refers to the forced installation of Microsoft applications that cannot be uninstalled, such as the Windows Store - which cannot be removed on Windows editions other than Enterprise.

Oh, alright.  Yeah, I won't argue that that happens - it definitely does - but... I mean, I think most people expect the OS to come with associated applications, like, yes, the Store for one, but also a web browser, music player, image viewer, backup service, etc. ... does the file browser count?  Where do we draw the line?

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Fine. I can't wait for someone to complain about a post not compatible to day theme users. 

It will never happen because night theme users know to remove formatting  

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It will never happen because night theme users know to remove formatting  

I'll probably troll or just shit post a new thread and I'll type "Uhm I can't see a damn thing, please fix for day theme users". 

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Fine. I can't wait for someone to complain about a post not compatible to day theme users. 

 

7 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It will never happen because night theme users know to remove formatting  

 

It will never happen because day time users are not .so vein that they have to use a substandard theme and then complain all the issues are because others won't do extra work to make it readable for them. 

[captain_to_fire]

56 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

They would be murdered by the business world for doing so. Many, many companies--not all of them small--are still relying on stacks of Sandy Bridge-powered workstations.

It would be a great "fuck you" by Microsoft to all their business customers if they did that. I hope they're sane enough not to do that.

[vanished]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 

It will never happen because day time users are not .so vein that they have to use a substandard theme and then complain all the issues are because others won't do extra work to make it readable for them. 

Data quality, my friend.  We want it to be correct whether you can see it or not  

It's the difference between a boolean field that displays as "yes", and having "yes" typed in and saved as a string  

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Data quality, my friend.  We want it to be correct whether you can see it or not  

It's the difference between a boolean field that displays as "yes", and having "yes" typed in and saved as a string  

Is boolean field the one with AND gate, OR gate, NAND gate, etc? I remember my ex talking about it but I don't understand it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[vanished]

Just now, hey_yo_ said:

Is boolean field the one with AND gate, OR gate, NAND gate, etc? I remember my ex talking about it but I don't understand it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No  it's true or false value

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

No  it's true or false value

Oh... 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Is boolean field the one with AND gate, OR gate, NAND gate, etc? I remember my ex talking about it but I don't understand it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, that is called boolean algebra

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

No  it's true or false value

see above

 

[vanished]

Just now, mr moose said:

Yes, that is called boolean algebra

see above

 

not what I was talking about.  Also this is starting to get a bit off-topic...

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

not what I was talking about.  Also this is starting to get a bit off-topic...

 

you want me to re-write the facts to suit your theme?

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

It refers to the forced installation of Microsoft applications that cannot be uninstalled, such as the Windows Store - which cannot be removed on Windows editions other than Enterprise.

Funny, my Windows 10 Pro (not Enterprise/Education) system has no Store at all.  The icon cannot be found, and even if you found some way to launch it, it would be completely broken.  The MS store is quite literally removed from my computer.

[mr moose]

36 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Funny, my Windows 10 Pro (not Enterprise/Education) system has no Store at all.  The icon cannot be found, and even if you found some way to launch it, it would be completely broken.  The MS store is quite literally removed from my computer.

 

even if it can't be removed, it uses no resources, prevents nothing from working. In fact until this thread, I didn't even know where the icon was to launch it.  But it's good to know that it's o.k for apple and android to have their respective stores but absolute evil for ms to have one too.

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

But when Windows Update tries to install the March 2017 Creators Update, version 1703, the installation fails with a dire (and confusing) message that reads:

Windows 10 is no longer supported on this PC

Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10.

What's hilarious is that Windows 10 setup wants you to uninstall Windows 10. ???

 

Microsoft is just as hilarious as the staunch army supporters of this dying platform in reddit. 

[Jito463]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

even if it can't be removed, it uses no resources, prevents nothing from working. In fact until this thread, I didn't even know where the icon was to launch it.  But it's good to know that it's o.k for apple and android to have their respective stores but absolute evil for ms to have one too.

Nothing evil about it, I just don't have any interest in anything there, so what's the point of leaving it enabled?  As for Apple, I wouldn't use them anyway, so their app store is irrelevant to me.  And when it comes to Android, it's difficult (albeit, not impossible) to add apps without using their store, making it a necessary component so far as that goes.  If it were relatively simple to add new apps via other means, then I wouldn't bother with the store on Android, either.