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HTC is introducing ads inside Vive and will track when you’re looking, And everyone was scared of Facebook

XTankSlayerX
By XTankSlayerX
in Tech News
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Posted
1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

I think we seem to have forgotten how this isn't new at all. NFS was notorious for having 2 brands for every billboard on the map. Progressive ads fill the sky in NFS Undercover, Prostreet has sponsors EVERYWHERE.

except that need for speed wasnt more expensive than the average gamer's budget for an entire system.

 

points can be made to have ads baked into what would presumably be ads already on a track, certainly if the generated revenue means the company behind the game can squeeze release price a bit, and get revenue over time to continue supporting the game as long as people play it. (or as long as ad contracts run for, that is.)

 

IMO, such arguments cant be made for something that costs a 4-digit number, because if at that point it comes down to the revenue of ads, just raise the price a tad, people who have the budget for 4 digits probably wont notice.

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35 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

Games also cost this thing called "money" to develope

gamers also pay this thing called "money" to buy the darn game.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I think we seem to have forgotten how this isn't new at all. NFS was notorious for having 2 brands for every billboard on the map. Progressive ads fill the sky in NFS Undercover, Prostreet has sponsors EVERYWHERE.

Not to defend overt-levels of monetization, but a lack of ads actually hurts a lot of those games.  We're so used to ads in real life, it always seems strange when it's "Soda!" "Burger Place!" in a realistic environment.

 

As for the Vive, really? I can see some sort of console pop-up system for notifications, but an actual Ad-serving SDK?  How short-sited. 

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Posted

 

1 hour ago, Maslofski said:

but wouldnt the add have to be integrated into the game, also affecting the oculus?

Why would anyone run Viveport games on an Oculus Rift anyway?

 

Presumably you could, I just don't see why you would.

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

i dont see how HTC would do this without interfering with the content being displayed, or being implemented by the content displayed.

 

that said, a €1000 piece of hardware SHOULD NOT HAVE ADS IN ANY CASE OTHER THAN IT BEING GIVEN OUT FREE.

It's not interfering with the content, it's integrated into the content. HTC offers a service to content developers, which allows the devs to put ads into their content in a way that lets them track whether users have viewed the ads, and various other contextual information relevant to advertising.

 

It's simultanously innovative, potentially highly effective, and pretty creepy.

28 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

There is a difference between product placements in games (which can at times go too far, eg The Division and Nissan) and advertisements displayed by the hardware which you paid a large chunk of money for.

The ads are displayed by the content. It's just that the manufacturer of the hardware (HTC) offers a service to content developers that lets them integrate advertising in a more sophisticated fashion.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Not to defend overt-levels of monetization, but a lack of ads actually hurts a lot of those games.  We're so used to ads in real life, it always seems strange when it's "Soda!" "Burger Place!" in a realistic environment.

 

As for the Vive, really? I can see some sort of console pop-up system for notifications, but an actual Ad-serving SDK?  How short-sited. 

ads in-game where they suit the environment, sure. but i dont se how those type of ads have to be in the hands of HTC, rather than the game developers. if anything, this seems like a desperate attempt from HTC to get a slice of the cake.

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Just now, Sakkura said:

 

It's simultanously innovative, potentially highly effective, and pretty creepy.

and a slice of the cake for a company that arguably doesnt deserve a slice of said cake.

 

at least, last time i checked HTC was a hardware company, not the kind of company you'd expect an ad-serving platform from.

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24 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I think we seem to have forgotten how this isn't new at all. NFS was notorious for having 2 brands for every billboard on the map. Progressive ads fill the sky in NFS Undercover, Prostreet has sponsors EVERYWHERE.

In game advertising isn't new, but it's not standard practice either. I wouldn't say it's an accepted revenue model in the gaming industry, and certainly not a desired one. There are far more relevant and successful avenues open to devs especially where consistent revenue streams are required. Micro-transactions being the prime example.

 

But this HTC idea goes far beyond a developer cashing in on some virtual product placement, their intention is to build the system for displaying and verifying adverts in game, and as has been said in this thread, to place themselves as Google Adsense of VR, taking a cut of every eye-tracked verified "impression".

 

Instead of saying "this is nothing new, other people have advertised", gamers should really question whether we want advertising in game to become commonplace, like it is in other forms of media.

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4 minutes ago, manikyath said:

ads in-game where they suit the environment, sure. but i dont se how those type of ads have to be in the hands of HTC, rather than the game developers. if anything, this seems like a desperate attempt from HTC to get a slice of the cake.

The ads are still in the hands of the devs first and foremost.

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

and a slice of the cake for a company that arguably doesnt deserve a slice of said cake.

 

at least, last time i checked HTC was a hardware company, not the kind of company you'd expect an ad-serving platform from.

I suppose they deserve it as much as Google deserves ad revenue from this forum or LMG's videos, or Doubleclick, Criteo and all those other ad/metrics/tracking/etc. businesses for ads across the web.

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7 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

I suppose they deserve it as much as Google deserves ad revenue from this forum or LMG's videos, or Doubleclick, Criteo and all those other ad/metrics/tracking/etc. businesses for ads across the web.

i see it as google providing the platform (as in, youtube) for free, which makes them deserve said slice. as well as google, dohbleclick, etc. having essentially made themselves into a "trusted platform" for advertising, where both the people buying ads, and the people selling ad space can say "i have this, make it so!" and have the middle man do the rest.

 

as i said before, unless i missed something HTC is still a hardware company, so i feel unsure about having them as an ad serving platform, both because it REALLY would be a big market swing for them, and because that would potentially also face big conflict of interest problems. (imagine samsung phone, or even gear VR ads trough HTC's ad platform, only on HTC devices.)

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20 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

In game advertising isn't new, but it's not standard practice either. I wouldn't say it's an accepted revenue model in the gaming industry, and certainly not a desired one. There are far more relevant and successful avenues open to devs especially where consistent revenue streams are required. Micro-transactions being the prime example.

 

But this HTC idea goes far beyond a developer cashing in on some virtual product placement, their intention is to build the system for displaying and verifying adverts in game, and as has been said in this thread, to place themselves as Google Adsense of VR, taking a cut of every eye-tracked verified "impression".

 

Instead of saying "this is nothing new, other people have advertised", gamers should really question whether we want advertising in game to become commonplace, like it is in other forms of media.

It is exactly what Bender from Futurama predicted 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i see it as google providing the platform (as in, youtube) for free, which makes them deserve said slice. as well as google, dohbleclick, etc. having essentially made themselves into a "trusted platform" for advertising, where both the people buying ads, and the people selling ad space can say "i have this, make it so!" and have the middle man do the rest.

Another key point is that they are separate verification services because advertisers didn't trust Websites to not spoof views. Which gives rise to a big difference between web browsing and HTC Vive, the separate service being used for verification makes it incredibly easy to block adverts while web browsing, I can just block all traffic to "googleadservices.com" for example. Whereas having the verification baked deeply into your Virtual Headset's hardware / software, makes it extremely difficult to block.

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4 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

Another key point is that they are separate verification services because advertisers didn't trust Websites to not spoof views. Which gives rise to a big difference between web browsing and HTC Vive, the separate service being used for verification makes it incredibly easy to block adverts while web browsing, I can just block all traffic to "googleadservices.com" for example. Whereas having the verification baked deeply into your Virtual Headset's hardware / software, makes it extremely difficult to block.

except block <insert the domains vive uses for all their telimetry "because you better believe someone's gonna do so" here>.

 

and that was basicly what i meant with the "make it so", hence the thumbs up :P

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3 hours ago, tlink said:

i mean im kinda okay if they are like on billboards in GTA or watchdogs 2 or something and not screamy all over your face billboards.

Krispy Kreme!

 

For those from r/outoftheloop : The new Power Rangers movie is plagued with Krispy Kreme product placement, including characters mentioning it by name.

 

 

PS: I'd be ok if they wanted to sell a cheaper version of the vive that is ad-supported but when you paid $800 or more... How would I say it? go fuck yerself HTC, k. thanks.

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The whole internet is supported by either in-direct or direct advertising. I welcome this addition to VR as it truley concretes it as here to stay.

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17 minutes ago, Cheddle said:

The whole internet is supported by either in-direct or direct advertising. I welcome this addition to VR as it truley concretes it as here to stay.

I 100% wouldn't buy a product that records where my eyes fall and sends that information to advertisers. (Anonymised or otherwise).

 

People in this thread seem very confused. "A free app/product/website does it so my $1000 product should also do it"... That is absurd reasoning. 

 

When your tv records your eyes watching ads and forwards this or your tooth brush sends plaque data to Colgate, then you can draw a parallel. 

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I, for one, would like to see real ads in games, where it makes sense for them to appear, on billboards, maybe in game there's a TV playing a commercial, etc. I like seeing real products in games. It helps my immersion. I remember in GTA 3 using a realism mod that added real storefronts and billboards and enjoying it.

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Oh come on. Get out of here with this clickbait bullshit. It's old news to developers. It's an optional promotional service for Viveport apps.

 

NOT GAMES

 

I should also mention, Viveport only publishes games in China. Apps and arcades are the only thing Viveport is for now. Btw, Viveport isn't owned by Valve. Half of the OP is sensational garbage.

 

 

Source: the viveport developer site for publishing apps.

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I would love to see this come to some of the VR games. Walking around a city (as an example) is kind of immersion breaking when you pass a billboard that changes its ad every time you pass by. Games like GTAV or Project CARS would be pretty cool with ads from actual products or services that are related to the game i.e. no ED meds on my race track. 

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I don't mind if it's some kind of billboard/signboard/poster related stuffs in games that doesn't affect my framerate/frametime.

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3 hours ago, christianled59 said:

Oh come on. Get out of here with this clickbait bullshit. It's old news to developers. It's an optional promotional service for Viveport apps. Not even games. 

 

 

I should also mention, Viveport only publishes games in China. Apps and arcades are the only thing Viveport is for now. Btw, Viveport isn't owned by Valve.

 

 

Source: the viveport developer page.

Yeah, people over exaggerating. Then again, I can see where they are coming from. Youtube didn't have ads when it first launched. Then it started to play a short ad in the beginning, then it started to play minute long ads that you can skip after couple seconds, and now they made some ads unskippable.

 

It always starts with that first ad -South Park

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10 hours ago, knightslugger said:

If it removes my immersion, the platform will be dead to me.

 

I outright REFUSE to subject my fantasy to reality.

In some games having unrealistic or missing adverts ruins the immersion (car racing, football, rpg).

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6 minutes ago, happyTAFFY said:

Yeah, people over exaggerating. Then again, I can see where they are coming from. Youtube didn't have ads when it first launched. Then it started to play a short ad in the beginning, then it started to play minute long ads that you can skip after couple seconds, and now they made some ads unskippable.

 

It always starts with that first ad -South Park

I don't ever imagine this moving to games. Considering the majority of the VR games are on steam, having ads in them would be ridiculous. I mean, you don't see any other paid steam game having ads. Doing that would be economic suicide.

 

I just very much hate how the OP worded this. Nowhere does it suggest this is for games, although the OP says it is. You couldn't even put ads in your game if you tried. The Viveport publishing tool doesn't allow you to. (the sdk communicates with a tool on the site that keeps track of this. Also, the overexaggeration of "it tracks where you look" is bullshit also. It's literally a ray trace from the headset see when they look at and look away from an ad. Similar to how an ad on mobile might have a little 'x'  you press, which typically is sent as telementry data).

 

 

Regardless, I do see your point. I would be more worried about seeing ads on the vr menu thing, but I even doubt that since it's literally just Big Picture Mode. 

Wishing leads to ambition and ambition leads to motivation and motivation leads to me building an illegal rocket ship in my backyard.

 

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10 hours ago, Mooshi said:

This thread is a good indicator of who is underage. I don't like ads either, but they've been in games for a long time already so it's not suddenly a new concept out of the blue.

 

Games also cost this thing called "money" to develope which requires a team to get this thing called "payroll" for their efforts. How does a company get money? Backers, sponsors and ADVERTISERS, omg what a shock.

I believe that money comes from the $60 I pay to play said game, or are they suddenly giving games away for free. 

- snip-

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12 hours ago, Mooshi said:

This thread is a good indicator of who is underage. I don't like ads either, but they've been in games for a long time already so it's not suddenly a new concept out of the blue.

 

Games also cost this thing called "money" to develope which requires a team to get this thing called "payroll" for their efforts. How does a company get money? Backers, sponsors and ADVERTISERS, omg what a shock.

People pay them £40 a copy of the game sold, or in this case £800 for the headset.

 

That's how capitalism works, they make an initial investment of money then they recuperate their investment by selling the product to consumers. These corporations are just getting greedy now, they're not happy with just charging for the product any more, instead they want to sell you the product for full price, expect you to pay more after you've already bought the full price product and also expect you to watch adverts on the thing you've already paid for twice.

 

Enough is enough. I decided at the end on 2016 I'm done buying games now and I've stuck to that. I'm sick of being treated like a walking credit card expected to pay for something multiple times over in order to experience it properly. Could you imagine if you went to the cinema and paid for a movie ticket and they said "want to listen to the sound? Buy these headphones." or "want to see the end of the movie? Buy this end pass."

 

Its getting silly now and the worst part is gamers just seem to be excepting it which means it's only going to get worse. Honestly how long will it be before £40 only buys you the engine and the first 2 levels then you have to pay them £10 for every subsequent level you want to play after that. 

 

You wanna be a walking credit card that's up to you but don't get annoyed when others don't.

Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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