AMD VEGA official details

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Agreed - but not everyone needs a new GPU right this second.

 

And those who don't need high end, it's perfectly valid to consider both AMD and NVIDIA (GTX 1060 - RX480/580 and lower).

Didn't say everyone did. I just said most people would have already bought a gpu if they needed or wanted one by now. When amd releases they are only fighting over the small group of people still on the fence about which GPU to buy and who aren't fans of one company or another

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Didn't say everyone did. I just said most people would have already bought a gpu if they needed or wanted one by now. When amd releases they are only fighting over the small group of people still on the fence about which GPU to buy and who aren't fans of one company or another

But the thing is, there's always more people that will need to buy a GPU.

 

In 6 months, new people will be upgrading older systems. Or other people will be building new systems. Yeah, there are definitely a large group who will have waited for Pascal/Polaris to be released, and bought in droves, so I will grant you that, but there's always more consumers waiting.

 

Besides, it DOES depend on the performance, to a degree, as well. If AMD releases Vega, and it walks all over the Titan Xp/1080 Ti, and matches the performance of whatever Volta will be, then you could use the same argument against NVIDIA, that people will have already bought Vega.

 

Now - that's just a hypothetical example, since we don't know solid performance figures or even what SKU's with what specs will be available. It's possible Vega's top tier will be Volta level. Or maybe it'll be Titan Xp level. Or even perhaps, it'll be 1080 level, like some here suggest.

[MadyTehWolfie]

11 minutes ago, Notional said:

Then why buy the gimped 3GB 1060? A 4GB 470 craps all over it for less. Also, why do you have a 1200W PSU for a <400W system? 

I have a 6gb 1060 as I wait for my 1080ti ftw3 to come in in the beginning of May. The PSU was a left over from when I had two Titan X Maxwell's on water. Also I don't buy AMD ever hence why I didnt buy a 480 instead of a 1060. 1060 6gb is better then a 470. The 480 was the competing card for a 1060 6gb not the 470

[Notional]

1 minute ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

I have a 6gb 1060 as I wait for my 1080ti ftw3 to come in in the beginning of May. The PSU was a left over from when I had two Titan X Maxwell's on water. Also I don't buy AMD ever hence why I didnt buy a 480 instead of a 1060. 1060 6gb is better then a 470. The 480 was the competing card for a 1060 6gb not the 470

 

Your sig says 3GB 1060. Based on your posts in this thread, it doesn't come as a surprise you won't ever buy AMD, but you will have to deal with a massive NVidia tax then.

[MadyTehWolfie]

3 minutes ago, Notional said:

Your sig says 3GB 1060. Based on your posts in this thread, it doesn't come as a surprise you won't ever buy AMD, but you will have to deal with a massive NVidia tax then.

I know I haven't updated my signature in forever. Not really a massive nvidia take if anything I'd bet Vega is all of 50 bucks less then Nvidia. When you buy 700+ buck gpu's each cycle you stop caring about 100-50 bucks. Also I did own AMD after their drivers failed to install after using DDU and downloading the driver multiple times and wiping when it didn't work I stopped using amd all together.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

I have a 6gb 1060 as I wait for my 1080ti ftw3 to come in in the beginning of May. The PSU was a left over from when I had two Titan X Maxwell's on water. Also I don't buy AMD ever hence why I didnt buy a 480 instead of a 1060. 1060 6gb is better then a 470. The 480 was the competing card for a 1060 6gb not the 470

 

Just now, MadyTehWolfie said:

I know I haven't updated my signature in forever. Not really a massive nvidia take if anything I'd bet Vega is all of 50 bucks less then Nvidia. When you buy 700+ buck gpu's each cycle you stop caring about 100-50 bucks. Also I did own AMD after their drivers failed to install after using DDU and downloading the driver multiple times and wiping when it didn't work I stopped using amd all together.

It's unfortunate that you had those issues with AMD, but what will you do if you encounter one of the numerous known NVIDIA driver bugs that has, among other things, bricked GPU's, or been massively buggy?

 

Remember that most people, on both AMD and NVIDIA, don't encounter issues at all with drivers.

 

Frankly, you should objectively consider all available options at your stated budget any time you look at buying a new GPU. Automatically just buying NVIDIA every single time is no better than all the so called AMD fanboys who will give AMD a pass every time they screw up. Granted, if NVIDIA is your only option at a given price point (Eg: 1070+ at the current moment), then it's an easy choice. But that's not always the case - in fact, it's RARELY been the case.

[Notional]

Just now, MadyTehWolfie said:

I know I haven't updated my signature in forever. Not really a massive nvidia take if anything I'd bet Vega is all of 50 bucks less then Nvidia. When you buy 700+ buck gpu's each cycle you stop caring about 100-50 bucks. Also I did own AMD after their drivers failed to install after using DDU and downloading the driver multiple times and wiping when it didn't work I stopped using amd all together.

 

When was that? I've never had driver issues with AMD on my 290. Of course, that is anecdotal, but none the less. Based on what I read around the net, there is parity in drivers these days between the two.

 

Don't forget the proprietary gsync tax as well

 

Either way, I agree that competition is best for everyone, so I hope Vega will succeed massively just because of that. But I would like for NVidia to drop their proprietary vendor lock-in strategies. They only benefit NVidia at the (literally) cost of the consumers.

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, Notional said:

When was that? I've never had driver issues with AMD on my 290. Of course, that is anecdotal, but none the less. Based on what I read around the net, there is parity in drivers these days between the two.

 

Don't forget the proprietary gsync tax as well

 

Either way, I agree that competition is best for everyone, so I hope Vega will succeed massively just because of that. But I would like for NVidia to drop their proprietary vendor lock-in strategies. They only benefit NVidia at the (literally) cost of the consumers.

Again when you spend over 1k on a monitor you care less and less about paying an extra 100-200. Gameworks is fine it's just not open source. Bad for gamers but good for selling units and business which is what they are they could care less about AMD users. This was when I had a R9 295X2 from XFX

[MadyTehWolfie]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

 

It's unfortunate that you had those issues with AMD, but what will you do if you encounter one of the numerous known NVIDIA driver bugs that has, among other things, bricked GPU's, or been massively buggy?

 

Remember that most people, on both AMD and NVIDIA, don't encounter issues at all with drivers.

 

Frankly, you should objectively consider all available options at your stated budget any time you look at buying a new GPU. Automatically just buying NVIDIA every single time is no better than all the so called AMD fanboys who will give AMD a pass every time they screw up. Granted, if NVIDIA is your only option at a given price point (Eg: 1070+ at the current moment), then it's an easy choice. But that's not always the case - in fact, it's RARELY been the case.

Never said either side doesn't make mistakes just that I prefer one brand and that's ok on either side. The fact remains is amd has been late to the market twice in a row 

[Notional]

Just now, MadyTehWolfie said:

Again when you spend over 1k on a monitor you care less and less about paying an extra 100-200. Gameworks is fine it's just not open source. Bad for gamers but good for selling units and business which is what they are they could care less about AMD users. This was when I had a R9 295X2 from XFX

 

Oh yeah, NVidia's business strategies work, that's for sure. It's just astounding to see consumers actively working against their own interests, and outright pay a price premium for the "privilege". Like saying thank you after your spouse beat the crap out of you.

[VagabondWraith]

48 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Again, your general point isn't wrong - I'm not treating AMD like a child (though I do pity them). But realistically, we don't want NVIDIA to have a pure 100% monopoly either.

How about 99.9%?  

[MadyTehWolfie]

1 minute ago, Notional said:

Oh yeah, NVidia's business strategies work, that's for sure. It's just astounding to see consumers actively working against their own interests, and outright pay a price premium for the "privilege". Like saying thank you after your spouse beat the crap out of you.

Not really Nvidia offers extra technologies that come with that little extra you pay. To me those things are worth more along with buying EVGA products. You could say that buying AMD your getting a product that doesn't have the same polish, support technologys, and inferior drivers at launch but I don't really go bad mouthing AMD just because I prefer Nvidia just that they are always late to the market and it hurts them in the end.

[Notional]

Just now, MadyTehWolfie said:

Not really Nvidia offers extra technologies that come with that little extra you pay. To me those things are worth more along with buying EVGA products. You could say that buying AMD your getting a product that doesn't have the same polish, support technologys, and inferior drivers at launch but I don't really go bad mouthing AMD just because I prefer Nvidia just that they are always late to the market and it hurts them in the end.

 

Any particular technologies you have in mind? Like I said, there is pretty much parity in the drivers now. I know AMD is about to launch an alternative to fast sync, but that is the only thing I can think of, that AMD doesn't have.

I agree launch drivers have been a bit lacking. Then again, most people don't need that extra 10% in the early life of the product, but rather later, when it starts to lag behind, but it's always best to have everything day one of course. I think AMD know that too, and it seems they will focus on that for Vega. It will be interesting to see either way.

[MadyTehWolfie]

3 minutes ago, Notional said:

Any particular technologies you have in mind? Like I said, there is pretty much parity in the drivers now. I know AMD is about to launch an alternative to fast sync, but that is the only thing I can think of, that AMD doesn't have.

I agree launch drivers have been a bit lacking. Then again, most people don't need that extra 10% in the early life of the product, but rather later, when it starts to lag behind, but it's always best to have everything day one of course. I think AMD know that too, and it seems they will focus on that for Vega. It will be interesting to see either way.

Well there was all the new technologies that came out with Pascal for one, anzel, multimonitor thing they had, shadowplay is far superior to amd's game capture software, gefore experience is quick and easy for noobs and if amd had a competent driver manager my issue with the driver not installing would have probably been solved. The fact that their day one drivers are better. I could care less I get 10% more after a year because I upgrade every year anyway. As for gsync my monitor has it so another reason to pay for a Nvidia GPU. AMD falls behind in release dates and new software features like I mentioned. Aside from that I just don't want or care to buy amd but can still admit some of there cards are good just I wouldn't personally buy them. It's much like I'd own a Ford but you wouldn't see me dead in a Chrysler even if it was just the same car different badge.

[Notional]

Just now, MadyTehWolfie said:

Well there was all the new technologies that came out with Pascal for one, anzel, multimonitor thing they had, shadowplay is far superior to amd's game capture software, gefore experience is quick and easy for noobs and if amd had a competent driver manager my issue with the driver not installing would have probably been solved. The fact that their day one drivers are better. I could care less I get 10% more after a year because I upgrade every year anyway. As for gsync my monitor has it so another reason to pay for a Nvidia GPU. AMD falls behind in release dates and new software features like I mentioned. Aside from that I just don't want or care to buy amd but can still admit some of there cards are good just I wouldn't personally buy them. It's much like I'd own a Ford but you wouldn't see me dead in a Chrysler even if it was just the same car different badge.

 

At the launch of Maxwell, that might be the case, but it is obsolete these days. AMD ReLive is a bit better than shadowplay, or at the very least equal. Anzel, sure, but I've never seen anyone use that for anything. It's a fancy screenshot function. The multi-monitor, that is true, but I've never seen any game that supports it, and it comes at a heavy performance penalty because you render a lot more. Besides ultrawides are slowly replacing multi-monitor anyways

Geforce experience. Idk.. it can help, but for the time being, it sounds like it's more of a hassle than what it's worth. At least from the feedback in here, and various tech sites.

 

As a european I would not be caught dead in any american car. Mostly because I don't want my car to explode when I try to get through a corner 

[dalekphalm]

20 minutes ago, Notional said:

At the launch of Maxwell, that might be the case, but it is obsolete these days. AMD ReLive is a bit better than shadowplay, or at the very least equal. Anzel, sure, but I've never seen anyone use that for anything. It's a fancy screenshot function. The multi-monitor, that is true, but I've never seen any game that supports it, and it comes at a heavy performance penalty because you render a lot more. Besides ultrawides are slowly replacing multi-monitor anyways

Geforce experience. Idk.. it can help, but for the time being, it sounds like it's more of a hassle than what it's worth. At least from the feedback in here, and various tech sites.

 

As a european I would not be caught dead in any american car. Mostly because I don't want my car to explode when I try to get through a corner 

As a side note, AMD pretty much invented the Multi-monitor gaming experience with EyeFinity, and historically, it has always been more well rounded compared to NVIDIA Surround gaming. Maybe that's not the case today - I don't know. But I know that even at the height of it's popularity, hardly anyone used it. Even less so now.

[Notional]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

As a side note, AMD pretty much invented the Multi-monitor gaming experience with EyeFinity, and historically, it has always been more well rounded compared to NVIDIA Surround gaming. Maybe that's not the case today - I don't know. But I know that even at the height of it's popularity, hardly anyone used it. Even less so now.

 

I have a dual monitor setup, but I don't use more than one monitor for gaming though. However, I've often heard youtubers complain about multimonitor not working with NVidia. I've never had any issue with AMD on that front ever. Everything just works so easily and great, that I took it as a given, and assumed it was like that on NVidia as well. For me, multi monitor is mandatory on a workstation/gaming pc these days. Even if I go with a curved ultrawide, I will still have an extra monitor for other stuff. It just has to work, and I don' care what kind of resolution or aspect ration each monitor has: It just has to work.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Didn't say everyone did. I just said most people would have already bought a gpu if they needed or wanted one by now. When amd releases they are only fighting over the small group of people still on the fence about which GPU to buy and who aren't fans of one company or another

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

But the thing is, there's always more people that will need to buy a GPU.

Exactly.  For example, I'm waiting for Vega because my R9 390 is still perfectly fine for my needs (then again, I'm only gaming at 1080p/144Hz).  I technically don't even need Vega, but I want a significant upgrade to finish off my Ryzen build, and the 480/580 is only a slight upgrade at best.

 

Personally, I wish we had more GPU vendors providing alternatives in the market, like we back in the day.  Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen in the CPU market, as well.  Not likely to happen at this point, though.

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

Exactly.  For example, I'm waiting for Vega because my R9 390 is still perfectly fine for my needs (then again, I'm only gaming at 1080p/144Hz).  I technically don't even need Vega, but I want a significant upgrade to finish off my Ryzen build, and the 480/580 is only a slight upgrade at best.

 

Personally, I wish we had more GPU vendors providing alternatives in the market, like we back in the day.  Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen in the CPU market, as well.  Not likely to happen at this point, though.

Because of the massive R&D investment required, it was inevitable for the GPU (and CPU, for that matter) market to consolidate into fewer and fewer players.

 

NVIDIA bought the last big competitor when they purchased 3dfx back in the day.

You could consider Intel a competitor with their iGPU, which is passable for most games in lowest graphics w/ 720p, but that's crap quality even by Console standards.

[Dabombinable]

28 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

Exactly.  For example, I'm waiting for Vega because my R9 390 is still perfectly fine for my needs (then again, I'm only gaming at 1080p/144Hz).  I technically don't even need Vega, but I want a significant upgrade to finish off my Ryzen build, and the 480/580 is only a slight upgrade at best.

 

Personally, I wish we had more GPU vendors providing alternatives in the market, like we back in the day.  Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen in the CPU market, as well.  Not likely to happen at this point, though.

It really sucks that PowerVR didn't stay in the PC market-due to having a Tile Based Renderer (it only rendered what you could see instead of everything-PowerVR=smart, Nvidia & Ati= dumb) they could produce a GPU which competed with Nvidia's best offerings while being significantly smaller and cheaper and handling high resolutions (for the time) very well even with low memory bandwidth.

And the renderer worked in all games (with a couple of exceptions-they only ever had 2 generations of it for PC), which shows any claims from Nvidia and Ati about it reuiring games having support for T.B.R to be BS (it was just really hard to design a functioning T.B.R, so they were just being lazy).

Edtit: This is what going from the smart approach gets you, http://www.anandtech.com/show/735/14

[MadyTehWolfie]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Because of the massive R&D investment required, it was inevitable for the GPU (and CPU, for that matter) market to consolidate into fewer and fewer players.

 

NVIDIA bought the last big competitor when they purchased 3dfx back in the day.

You could consider Intel a competitor with their iGPU, which is passable for most games in lowest graphics w/ 720p, but that's crap quality even by Console standards.

Actually I gpu's can match or exceed the potato consoles now lol

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Actually I gpu's can match or exceed the potato consoles now lol

Can you provide a source to verify this claim?

 

Furthermore, even if that were true about the XBO and PS4 (which I'm quite skeptical about), it would not apply to the PS4 Pro, nor the upcoming XB Project Scorpio.

[MadyTehWolfie]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Can you provide a source to verify this claim?

 

Furthermore, even if that were true about the XBO and PS4 (which I'm quite skeptical about), it would not apply to the PS4 Pro, nor the upcoming XB Project Scorpio.

Believe it was when they compared the top end Skylake I gpu to the consoles fps performance and it was at 30fps. I'll have to try and find it as it's a pretty old news article that covered it.

[Jahramika]

On 3/25/2017 at 11:11 AM, Trixanity said:

I just wish AMD would release Vega as a top-to-bottom stack instead of a single GPU here and there. They need a complete line-up of modern graphics cards.

They do not there bottom line up is better than NVIDIA

[Notional]

Wrong thread