If students had guns would the 'terrorist' have been shot dead in under a minute?

[Velvet Revolver]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute. i did not realize campus security guards had guns, heck even our transit officers dont have guns, maybe vancouver does. why couldnt the security guard shoot the culprit in the legs to immobilize him, then the culprit would be spending literally life in prison, not life being 10 yr paroled, but life is life down there. the guard will be a hero now.

[BingoFishy]

Yeah but we might end up with more terrorists. It's just so easy to press a trigger people might not think hard enough about it.

[rn8686]

What if the students accidentally shot someone else that they thought was the terrorist? Or if the terrorist got the gun? 

[Velvet Revolver]

its mostly all copy cats doing this, demented individuals they are. yes if the 'terrorist' had a gun it would be a different story. you could also look at it this way - what if the guard missed and killed a student. i wonder about the guards training, it being a campus and the campus dont want to be sued its got to be some extensive training. the only people allowed to carry guns around here are money haulers like Brinks.

[Princess Luna]

Likely yes however given how many of these students are essentially spoiled kids that never heard a no from parents and will lose their minds in their first argue with another student we could end up having an increase of fatality if such arguments escalated to the use of hand guns they have for "protection".

There isn't a perfect solution, USA has a lot of freedom when it comes to possessing weapons and there's still shootings, armed robbery etc... while Brazil has a policy that forbids every single civilian to have a gun, only military personal (Police is part of the Military there) are allowed to have it, and well there's the exact same issues, shootings, all the thieves bandits etc have guns brought from Paraguay.

There simply is no perfect solution and it sure isn't either allowing weapons entirely nor forbidding them entirely.

[Thunderpup]

2 minutes ago, Velvet Revolver said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute. i did not realize campus security guards had guns, heck even our transit officers dont have guns, maybe vancouver does. why couldnt the security guard shoot the culprit in the legs to immobilize him. the guard will be a hero now.

In the U.S many schools of a decent size usually have a full fledged police department on campus.  This is owing to the fact that many of the large universities are cities in themselves, but they still fall under the control of the city/county police agency.  The smaller ones do have armed security as well.  One local private college even has a building to scan incoming packages for bombs or harmful chemical agents. 

 

As far a shooting in the leg is concerned. Police and armed guards are trained to aim for the chest center mass, because it is both the easiest target to hit, and when hit the easiest target that will result in ending the situation. 

 

Getting fancy and trying to hit a much smaller target, such as the leg or an arm,  will likely result in a miss especially when your adrenaline is pumping and the target is moving.

 

Missed shots have the potential to hit innocent bystandards, or for the perp to get away. 

[Velvet Revolver]

a taser would have worked well with a crazy dude with a gun. without video tape we wont know what really went down. police in the uk dont have guns do they? i wonder what the murder rate there is like. i will have to google Piers Morgan on yt.

[Princess Luna]

Just now, Velvet Revolver said:

a taser would have worked well with a crazy dude with a gun. without video tape we wont know what really went down. police in the uk dont have guns do they? i wonder what the murder rate there is like. i will have to google Piers Morgan on yt.

The Police there Does have guns, they even killed a brazilian mistaken by a terrorist by accident once, it was one of the highest indemnification UK ever paid to a foreign family, however street officers usually only carry the police baton and the ones with guns will only come if requested, then they go by a police car and all from the department straight to the crime required area.

[rn8686]

13 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Likely yes however given how many of these students are essentially spoiled kids that never heard a no from parents and will lose their minds in their first argue with another student we could end up having an increase of fatality if such arguments escalated to the use of hand guns they have for "protection".

There isn't a perfect solution, USA has a lot of freedom when it comes to possessing weapons and there's still shootings, armed robbery etc... while Brazil has a policy that forbids every single civilian to have a gun, only military personal (Police is part of the Military there) are allowed to have it, and well there's the exact same issues, shootings, all the thieves bandits etc have guns brought from Paraguay.

There simply is no perfect solution and it sure isn't either allowing weapons entirely nor forbidding them entirely.

Brazil has its own issues with corruption, they aren't really comparable with the US. But I agree whatever is done there will always be shootings, even if the amount is minimised. 

[Ryoku]

18 minutes ago, Velvet Revolver said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute. i did not realize campus security guards had guns, heck even our transit officers dont have guns, maybe vancouver does. why couldnt the security guard shoot the culprit in the legs to immobilize him, then the culprit would be spending literally life in prison, not life being 10 yr paroled, but life is life down there. the guard will be a hero now.

This isn't a movie, shooting someone in the leg isn't enough to "take" them down, and worst case you hit the artery in the leg and he bleeds out anyways, or they miss and possibly hit a bystander. Also I don't think its fair for you to 2nd guess someones choices in a life threating situation from behind the safety of your keyboard.

[Mooshi]

25 minutes ago, Velvet Revolver said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute. i did not realize campus security guards had guns, heck even our transit officers dont have guns, maybe vancouver does. why couldnt the security guard shoot the culprit in the legs to immobilize him, then the culprit would be spending literally life in prison, not life being 10 yr paroled, but life is life down there. the guard will be a hero now.

Why on Earth should tax payers fund filth for years when that some money could be used for millions of more productive uses? Trash like that deserves to be tossed into shark infested waters with no limbs. 

[Velvet Revolver]

thats the way society is, precisely why facebook is popular. armchair warriors!

[Inkz]

As one living in Michigan this one was really too close for comfort.

[Velvet Revolver]

1 minute ago, Inkz said:

As one living in Michigan this one was really too close for comfort.

do you carry?

 

i think 23 hours a day in the SHU would fuck up a big percentage of inmates. lifetime of mental anguish. killing them is doing them a favor.

[Guest Kloaked]

Maybe. I'm pro-gun and I think everyone should own one for personal and home protection, but nobody can say for certain that the outcome would have been different. I don't think these events should be the main argument for self-protection with firearms though, as these kinds of events can go either way depending on the circumstance. I wasn't there at any of these sprees so I cannot say for sure if an armed civilian could have made a difference.

 

It doesn't hurt to be prepared, though.

[Murdoch]

5 minutes ago, Thunderpup said:

As far a shooting in the leg is concerned. Police and armed guards are trained to aim for the chest center mass, because it is both the easiest target to hit, and when hit the easiest target that will result in ending the situation. 

 

Getting fancy and trying to hit a much smaller target, such as the leg or an arm,  will likely result in a miss especially when your adrenaline is pumping and the target is moving.

Indeed, aiming for center mass is the standard tactic, for the reasons you stated.

 

I was curious about this previously given the large numbers of people being killed by the police in the US. The tactic is taught as "shoot to incapacitate" and ofc shooting at the chest is the best way to ensure that happens, fine so far. But there does seem to be a cultural problem with the amount of rounds being fired, and the lack of medical attention afterwards. Because more often than not, shooting to incapacitate, seems to mean unloading till they dead. I'd be pretty uncomfortable with that state of affairs if I lived there, imo the police shouldn't be judge, jury & executioner.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

cops do carry tazers but its only pig preference though.

[Monkey Dust]

45 minutes ago, Velvet Revolver said:

a taser would have worked well with a crazy dude with a gun. without video tape we wont know what really went down. police in the uk dont have guns do they? i wonder what the murder rate there is like. i will have to google Piers Morgan on yt.

Well going by this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate , yeah I know wikipedia and it doesn't compare countries in the same year, but it was the best I could find quickly.

 

Murder rate per 100000 inhabitants, UK 0.9 similar to other large European countries so our super strict guns laws and largely unarmed police don't make a huge amount of difference. The US has a rate of 3.9 , though compared to Honduras at 84.6 could be far worse.

[FakezZ]

My opinion is, if everyone has a gun, then nobody has a gun.

[Coaxialgamer]

#usingatragedytopromoteyourownagenda

[Thunderpup]

1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

 Because more often than not, shooting to incapacitate, seems to mean unloading till they dead. I'd be pretty uncomfortable with that state of affairs if I lived there, imo the police shouldn't be judge, jury & executioner.

 

I think a lot of that has to do with the adrenaline going.   they shoot until the target has stopped moving, but because of gravity and inertia the target may keep moving Even if they have been sufficiently injured. 

 

Sadly cops don't get much regular range training as they are expected to foot the bill for ammo except during  yearly quals. 

 

1 hour ago, Velvet Revolver said:

a taser would have worked well with a crazy dude with a gun. without video tape we wont know what really went down. police in the uk dont have guns do they? i wonder what the murder rate there is like. i will have to google Piers Morgan on yt.

Tasers aren't always effective.

Their range is limited and you have the barbs have to catch the skin to transfer any electricity.  winter clothing makes that harder. 

Plus once you have pulled the trigger on a taser you don't get a second shot if you miss. 

 

Which would be bad when faced with an armed opponent.

[Velvet Revolver]

1 hour ago, Mooshi said:

Why on Earth should tax payers fund filth for years when that some money could be used for millions of more productive uses? Trash like that deserves to be tossed into shark infested waters with no limbs. 

you fund the war to gain oil, i mean war on terrorism.

[Arty]

2 hours ago, Velvet Revolver said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-dead-after-ohio-state-university-car-knife-attack-n689076

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute. i did not realize campus security guards had guns, heck even our transit officers dont have guns, maybe vancouver does. why couldnt the security guard shoot the culprit in the legs to immobilize him, then the culprit would be spending literally life in prison, not life being 10 yr paroled, but life is life down there. the guard will be a hero now.

so he can go to jail and spend my tax money? ha!, why punish me to punish him

[Velvet Revolver]

16 minutes ago, Arty said:

so he can go to jail and spend my tax money? ha!, why punish me to punish him

whos judgement is that?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 hours ago, Velvet Revolver said:

i think this will become a beacon for american pro gun lobbyists because the security guard shot the terrorist dead in just over a minute.

There are two key things to keep in mind:

1) the security guard shot him withing minutes (i.e, not some random dude with a gun)

2) the security guard shot him within minutes from the moment he arrived (i.e., after people reacted in all sort of ways for X minutes)

 

If all students had guns, some would probably had used it. It's hard to say whether the attacker would have been shot dead quicker in that case, but what I can tell you for sure is that more than one person would have been shot dead within minutes of the attack.

One trained police officer trying to get a suspect while everyone runs away sounds good. Five or six inexperienced Charles Bronson wannabes shooting from all angles sounds terrible.