Why Linus is wrong (another macbook topic)

[QueenDemetria]

I'm glad Apple made the 'Macs Type-C only, hopefully this will help the progression and adoption of Type-C.

[Donut417]

9 hours ago, bobhays said:

Wow every college class I've seen is pretty close to 50/50 and depending on the class might be more windows. I know within my own circle its about 3:1 windows:mac, but that's because of engineering stuffs.

Agreed. There have even been professors at my school that couldn't help students with MAC's. My professor for Finance has a Business Stats course before our class. The software they are using for the class, it seems the mac version doesn't have all the same functions as the Windows version. So in a lot of cases Mac users are screwed, if they dont know how to use the software. 

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Agreed. There have even been professors at my school that couldn't help students with MAC's. My professor for Finance has a Business Stats course before our class. The software they are using for the class, it seems the mac version doesn't have all the same functions as the Windows version. So in a lot of cases Mac users are screwed, if they dont know how to use the software. 

In my university professors are intelligent enough to help students install mac equivalent software, or a virtual machine to use the windows software.

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

In my university professors are intelligent enough to help students install mac equivalent software, or a virtual machine to use the windows software.

Same with my school. All the professors provide software/tools for linux, osx, and windows. I've yet to have a class where Windows will work but OS X won't, actually the opposite is true if anything -- I've had classes where Linux/OS X are fine, but Windows requires a VM. 

 

/from a cs student

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Same with my school. All the professors provide software/tools for linux, osx, and windows. I've yet to have a class where Windows will work but OS X won't, actually the opposite is true if anything -- I've had classes where Linux/OS X are fine, but Windows requires a VM. 

 

/from a cs student

His school must be a really bad school if students who don't have the right brand laptop get "screwed".

[79wjd]

Just now, Enderman said:

Must be a really bad school if students who don't have the right brand laptop get "screwed".

Or just pretentious/prick-y teachers. 

[RedRound2]

@Enderman Great post. I would like to add few other points

• Type C might seem like an inconvenience now but 2-3 years later, everyone owning a MacBook will be glad to have 4 Thunderbolt enabled Type-C ports as Apple's move is going to exponentially increase Type-C accessories. Plus all anyone needs is one Thunderbolt 3 adapter with two Type A's , an ethernet jack and HDMI for 99% of usage scenario (for first couple of years of ownership before accessories with Type C starts spreading)
• @LinusTech went on complaining about 13" lack of GPU and dual core when even dell XPS 13 has pretty much the same omissions. Obviously, it's due to thermal and power problems, but noo people conveniently forget that. Again hypocrisy at it's finest
• @Slick You complained about how iPhone's can't connect to MacBooks without adapters. Guess what, pretty much no Apple user ever connects their device to PC since it's all wireless now. It might seem a bit overlooked, but it's something that doesn't affect 98% of the users
• Apple clarified that they didn't add 32GB RAM due to power constraints and that is true. Skylake doesn't support LPDDR4 and they would've had to go with quad channel memory. If you think about it a different way, I'm sure Apple would've loved to add 32GB as an extra premium option but they didn't hence what they're claiming must definitely be true
• Another misinformed group, the reason why new MBPs don't have Kaby Lake is due to the fact that quad cores of the aforementioned aren't available yet and Apple would've had to wait which as anyone can predict would be met with even worse shitstorm
• Last but not the least, people keep complaining about the "Pro" naming scheme. I'm pretty sure the new MBPs will outperform the Surface Pro by a huge margin in all intensive tasks

Also @LinusTech I request you to do an iSwitched series with the MBP and experiment with FCPX. I'm pretty sure alot of your opinions will change (like lack of touch screen but provided with the best in class trackpad), Touch bar, battery, and realize how optimized FCPX is on a Mac compared to a probably a four times powerful machine with premier pro

[Donut417]

41 minutes ago, Enderman said:

His school must be a really bad school if students who don't have the right brand laptop get "screwed".

DUDE Microsoft still has a 89% market share in desktop OS's. Its only natural for people to know how to use Windows and have no fucking clue how to use Mac OS. All the computer labs are also Windows based. If the software is not given the same levels of productivity its not the job of the professor to know. Microsoft Office for Mac does thing differently then the Windows version. Had students in my Operations Management class that had to figure out how to perform operations in Excel. The professor had no clue how to do it on the Mac version. All because my university refuses to move to Google Doc's when they already manage our Email thought Google to begin with. Sorry Apple doesn't have enough market share for the school to give a shit. If you want more people to know Mac OS then Apple needs to be more competitive in the PC market. Like that will ever happen. Which is why the Macbook Pro is a low volume product. Its not going to sell at the same rate as an iPhone or Google Phone or a Windows based computer. 

 

43 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Or just pretentious/prick-y teachers. 

I cant argue with you that we have some pricky professors. Because there are many that aint worth a shit. Lets just say if you go on rate my professor, there are a lot of bad scores. Its sad because as a business student I have to pay a premium for classes. $1200 per class, not counting the books, parking pass and other expenses. 

[flibberdipper]

I admit that when I first saw the new ports, I was triggered (as I plan to buy a MBP at some point to replace my dying E4300), but now I'm fine with it. All I have to do is buy a cable for my external HDD and maybe an adapter for my monitor, and that's all I really care about. Only thing I'm not a fan of is the omission of the SD card slot.

[RedRound2]

21 minutes ago, Abyssal Radon said:

I know a lot of people that uses mice with their laptop and typically I see they are plugged in via USB interface. So in theory if they bought the new MacBook Pro's they would have to shell out more money towards an adapter or a new mouse... ouch.

 

 

You've got to trust me on this but Apple trackpads are on a whole different level. But even if you wanted, there are a lot of Bluetooth mice options plus type C should be right around the corner 

Quote

Whenever I use my laptop for instance, I typically have one of my 4K monitors plugged in for a larger desktop workspace. I couldn't use my regular DP cable, well off to the store or online to buy a adapter... ouch.

 

2

Again, it's just a matter you keeping an adapter connected to your DP cable which I assume you have kept connected to your monitor. There's always an inconvenience problem for a short term whenever there's a change in standard

Quote

For any thumb drive to load files onto, well now I have to use my adapter for my mouse and wait... I have to buy another adapter since I always use my mouse with my laptop... ouch.

 

 

There's plenty of Sandisk thumb drives with both Type-C and Type A header.

Quote

Apple is trying to push the idea of, forcing the consumers to purchase adapters with their products for more money, kinda like the iPhone 7 fuck up.

 

 

Again change it's a consequence when you change the standard. All Apple did with this move is shoot themselves on the foot with this move as most people will see this as a disadvantage at least for a year or two. This is definitely to forcibly move the industry forward like they did with pretty much all every other standard the industry dropped last 10 years

 

Also Apple isn't holding a fucking knife against your throat to buy their adapters. Since this is an open standard you can easily get Type-C adapters for pretty cheap

Quote

Apple has been always about 'innovating', this isn't innovation, this is called being a bunch of greedy fuck nuggets trying to squeeze every penny out of their consumers. Now their products are expensive and now you have to buy a few adapters in order to use your own peripherals... not cool Apple. While the laptop itself look's and is spec'd nicely, this move with the four Thunderbolt 3 ports is fucking annoying. At least they didn't remove the headphone/mic jack... morons.

 

1

This isn't innovation nor invention rather a bold decision. If you can't comprehend the difference you probably shouldn't be here. The laptops are competitively priced given how they are light years ahead in certain aspects like trackpad, battery, longevity, build quality, etc

The removal of headphone jack on a laptop will pretty much make no difference in the audio industry since people mostly listen to audio on their phones hence the iPhone was the first one to lose. Besides there would also be no advantages whatsoever for removing it unlike the space gains they got from the iPhone

[PocketNerd]

Dare I say this... USB fanboi detected?

[NTDaws]

Its not really a USB port

[shymi]

I love spaghetti from dongles. As I wrote in another topic - I need at least 2-3 dongles just for the stuff I would do with any of the Pros or change my DSLR, drawing tablet, external hard/thumb drives and mouse(it's nightmare to try to code with a touchpad).
P.S. I forgot to mention connecting to projectors(not mine - at university).

[Enderman]

33 minutes ago, Dawson Wehage said:

Its not really a USB port

Yeah it is. Thunderbolt 3 has direct transmission for USB 3.1, DP1.2, and 4 lanes of PCIe.

That means that since it uses the USB-C connector, you can plug in any USB device just using a USB-C cable, no need for any adapters or converters.

Basically USB 3.1 type C, but with added functionality.

 

And no, a USB to DP adapter is not the same thing as a thunderbolt 3 to DP adapter.

You can connect TB3 to DP directly using just a cable, without any adapters, because it carries DP1.2 natively.

[Enderman]

1 hour ago, Abyssal Radon said:

Ok, I understand OP's argument and I have to challenge this. Now we have a few things to consider, I know a lot of people that uses mice with their laptop and typically I see they are plugged in via USB interface. So in theory if they bought the new MacBook Pro's they would have to shell out more money towards an adapter or a new mouse... ouch. Whenever I use my laptop for instance, I typically have one of my 4K monitors plugged in for a larger desktop workspace. I couldn't use my regular DP cable, well off to the store or online to buy a adapter... ouch. For any thumb drive to load files onto, well now I have to use my adapter for my mouse and wait... I have to buy another adapter since I always use my mouse with my laptop... ouch. Apple is trying to push the idea of, forcing the consumers to purchase adapters with their products for more money, kinda like the iPhone 7 fuck up. Apple has been always about 'innovating', this isn't innovation, this is called being a bunch of greedy fuck nuggets trying to squeeze every penny out of their consumers. Now their products are expensive and now you have to buy a few adapters in order to use your own peripherals... not cool Apple. While the laptop itself look's and is spec'd nicely, this move with the four Thunderbolt 3 ports is fucking annoying. At least they didn't remove the headphone/mic jack... morons.

1) every time a new transmission technology emerges and people need to switch to it, adapters are always needed.

Remember USB to serial adapters? USB to PS2 adapters? USB to parallel adapters? This is how it works when a new standard is introduced.

You should be thankful that it is the apple users that are the ones making this switching process easier for the rest of us, when we switch in a few years.

 

2) You don't need adapters if your device has a removable cable.

My mouse has a removable cable. My printer has a removable cable. I have never seen any monitor in the past 5 years that doesn't have a removable cable.

The process of replacing DP-DP cables with type C - DP is not that big of a deal.

People buying a $3k laptop should have no issue buying a few $10 cables and adapters.

 

3) yes you need adapters right now because few devices have USB-C. Guess what having millions of people with thunderbolt 3 macbooks will do? It will increase the amount of USB-C on devices in the market.

This is an inconvenience to apple users which will help everyone else.

 

4) you can't avoid switching to USB-C, that is the new standard.

I don't think you still use PS2 and serial and parallel ports, do you?

Exactly.

 

Let the apple users be the first adopters, then in a few years every device will have USB-C and all you need to do to switch is buy some USB-C to USB-C cables.

[NTDaws]

15 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Yeah it is. Thunderbolt 3 has direct transmission for USB 3.1, DP1.2, and 4 lanes of PCIe.

That means that since it uses the USB-C connector, you can plug in any USB device just using a USB-C cable, no need for any adapters or converters.

Basically USB 3.1 type C, but with added functionality.

 

And no, a USB to DP adapter is not the same thing as a thunderbolt 3 to DP adapter.

You can connect TB3 to DP directly using just a cable, without any adapters, because it carries DP1.2 natively.

dont look like a usb to me, it doesn't even fit in there

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Dawson Wehage said:

dont look like a usb to me, it doesn't even fit in there

Do you not know what USB type C is?

[NTDaws]

Yea why its a USB

[shymi]

16 minutes ago, Dawson Wehage said:

dont look like a usb to me, it doesn't even fit in there

It's a new USB standard(USB 3.1 to be exact) and it's backward compatible internally(logically and hardware-wise) with older USB standards, but you need an adapter so you could plug in older USB devices(like you need a Micro USB to USB adapter(cable) so you could plug your phone/tablet(android ones) to a computer or type-a to type-b one to connect your printer to your computer).

 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Dawson Wehage said:

Yea why its a USB

What do you mean "why is it a usb"

What kind of question is that? What are you trying to ask?

[NTDaws]

Not sure what your talking about, I was talking about USB's, Thunderbolt 3 is basically USB 3.1, PCIe, etc. 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Dawson Wehage said:

Not sure what your talking about, I was talking about USB's, Thunderbolt 3 is basically USB 3.1, PCIe, etc. 

Yes, thunderbolt 3 is what is on the macbook and it uses the type C connector.

It also natively carries USB protocol so you can plug any USB device into it directly as long as you have the right cable.

[shymi]

6 minutes ago, Dawson Wehage said:

Not sure what your talking about, I was talking about USB's, Thunderbolt 3 is basically USB 3.1, PCIe, etc. 

The type-C supports non-USB protocols(like HDMI, Thunderbolt, display port and so on), which can be added for use via the type-c.

Edited October 31, 2016 by shymi
Wrong naming... sigh...

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, shymi said:

USB 3.1 supports non-USB protocols(like HDMI, Thunderbolt, display port and so on), which can be added for use via the type-c.

With adapters though, you can't just plug a HDMI port into USB, there aren't enough pins even.

Thunderbolt 3 natively supports USB, so all you need is a type C cable for plugging in any USB device.

[samcool55]

Well, good luck getting rid of a connector that has been used for 20+ years

It's just the same thing with the 3.5mm jack.

 

Tbh if apple wants to get rid of it, sure, i don't care.

I don't buy their products and i don't have to use them.

 

Also i think this also starts to show geological/cultural differences.

Things like thunderbolt are just barely used where i live, even tho i hear a lot about it from the 'murica side of the world.

And there's a similar thing going on with USB-C things, you barely see them in shops.

 

If apple wants to force everyone usb-c down their throat, again i don't care.

But if they don't have usb-c devices in stock, it won't matter how much force they use.

 

If it's a pain in the butt to go usb-c and doesn't get as easy to get as a usb-a device, it won't go anywhere.

 

Time and time we see the same thing, great tech but without the support from a community, manufactureres or whoever else that can make it really big and mainstream, it fails.