[Rumour] New AMD Zen ES Base/Boost Clock Frequencies Leaked

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, 226477_1454181668 said:

Will people stop just stating things as fact, SHOW evidence. 

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

41 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Well I am 100% sure they improved some. 

I think you mistook "bulldozer level of disappointment" for "Bulldozer level of performance".

 

Point is: we are not going to get Broadwell-E or slightly worse 8-core performance at 4770K prices, from no brand. So, the only way for the 8-core to be $300-400 is to disappoint a lot by being very far from Broadwell.

We are more likely to see i7-ish quad cores at near i5 prices, because the price difference between mainstream i5s and i7s is hardly justified on costs. Decent Zen quad cores could be the end of the market niche for i5s a.k.a. "crippled i7s"  

[Citadelen]

1 hour ago, HKZeroFive said:

-snip-

 

Do you honestly think Intel has their extreme CPUs at such high prices because it costs extreme amounts to make them? No, it's because there's no competing product.

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, patrickjp93 said:

Called it! 4GHz 8-cores in a 95W TDP with Intel-like performance per clock was laughable from the word go.

To be fair though , even intel couldn't manage that . And anyone who was expecting an 8 core 4ghz chip with a 95W TDP had unrealistic expectations from the get-go

.

Just now, Citadelen said:

No, AMD will still have an inferior architecture, Intel has been in the lead for too long and plows much MUCH more money into R&D; AMD hasn't had a superior product since 2006. Zen looks to be around Broadwell/Haswell levels, which is still very commendable considering their R&D.

 

I actually don't think R&D is such a big issue. Intel has to spend most of it's R&D budget on maintaining and developing new process nodes , which AMD doesn't do ( those costs go instead to Globalfoundries ). 

They also have a lot more products  . Aside from cpu's they also spent a fuckton on developing 3D Xpoint , they design low power cores for the Atom ( which amd doesn't ) , they make MCA chips like the xeon phi lineup and have a foothold in IOT .

[Snadzies]

Not looking too good for Zen.

Early reports/leaks show Zen being around haswell/broadwell for single core performance, meaning it will be 2 - 3 gens behind Intel, and now it is looking like Zen will also be running at a slower clock speed.

 

It is looking like AMD will be once again relegated to low end systems with some crossover with Intel in the mid range while Intel remains dominant in the high and enthusiast range computers.

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

If only Apple made a 16 core scaled up A10 . Would Google then use Apple?

ARM is inferior to x86, an A10 with 8 times as many cores would still significantly underperform compared to intel's offerings.

[meenmeen1103]

2 minutes ago, Snadzies said:

Not looking too good for Zen.

Early reports/leaks show Zen being around haswell/broadwell for single core performance, meaning it will be 2 - 3 gens behind Intel, and now it is looking like Zen will also be running at a slower clock speed.

 

It is looking like AMD will be once again relegated to low end systems with some crossover with Intel in the mid range while Intel remains dominant in the high and enthusiast range computers.

Was there really people thinking that Zen would out-perform Intel's top offerings? I thought their new product keeping them relevant and competitive in the mid-range market would be enough at release. Maybe improve upon that later to get closer to Intel's high end but still at lower performance and cost obviously.

[PlayStation 2]

5 hours ago, imreloadin said:

At least AMD purists will finally be able to get off the god-awful Bulldozer platform...

God awful? Not really. If you don't have insanely high expectations, even my meh FX-4100 is pretty okay.

Antiquated? Definitely. It was never meant to be a consumer chip. Hell, it wasn't even good as a server chip, but it's not shite.

[2FA]

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

they call it clusters/module.

 

Basically, all AMDs products are MODULAR, thus they can mix and match any of their IP into a single product. Thus 4 cores is a "cluster" or package or whatever.

 

They got GPU modules (contains 1 ACE, 64 shaders, X ROPs, X TMUs each), memory modules, IO modules and now, much like bulldozer, they are looking to expand this system so that the minimum package is 4 ZEN cores.

They were called clusters/modules because of the FX series which used CMT (Cluster-based Multithreading). Zen uses SMT (Simultaneous Multithreading) which uses actual cores and not modules meaning each core isn't sharing FPU and the other horrible designs of CMT.

[Vode]

3 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

i beg your pardon? 800$? you know what a 6700k is right? 

Is the 6700k an 8-core?

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Vode said:

Is the 6700k an 8-core?

itsn't it a 6.7m core?

[Snadzies]

2 minutes ago, meenmeen1103 said:

Was there really people thinking that Zen would out-perform Intel's top offerings? I thought their new product keeping them relevant and competitive in the mid-range market would be enough at release. Maybe improve upon that later to get closer to Intel's high end but still at lower performance and cost obviously.

I don't think anyone was expecting Zen to outperform Intel but I think people were looking at Zen to be reasonably close to Intel.

Even if Zen was a couple generations behind in single core performance vs Intel that wouldn't have been too big a deal as the difference wouldn't have been that big and would still look fairly attractive should Zen be a little cheaper than Intel's offerings.

To be a couple gens behind AND have slower clock speeds means AMD is going to have to price their CPUs very aggressively to get meaningful sales and that basically leaves them exactly where they have been sitting for several years now.

 

Should these rumors/leaks hold true then the only thing left to see is how well Zen overclocks (something only a fraction of people do) and I'm not going to hold my breath that Zen will turn out to be an overclocker's dream.

[Citadelen]

25 minutes ago, Snadzies said:

-snip-

 

It looks bad, being 2-3 gens behind, but then you have to understand that Intel typically sees 5% gains each generation, Kabylake is just a refresh as well.

The clock speeds, however, are concerning.

38 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

-snip-

 

R&D IS, a major concern, until this year it has been constantly decreasing while competition stiffens.

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, Citadelen said:

It looks bad, being 2-3 gens behind, but then you have to understand that Intel typically sees 5% gains each generation, Kabylake is just a refresh as well.

The clock speeds, however, are concerning.

R&D IS, a major concern, until this year it has been constantly decreasing while competition stiffens.

R&D is a concern ,, but it's not that important considering that while intel DOES have more money and DOES spend more , most of it is going in areas OTHER than architecture development 

[DildorTheDecent]

Quote

I mean on higher clocks the 4-core SKU steps into the 95W TDP envelope

Yet everybody is cool with the likes of the 6700K sitting at 91W TDP

 

BUT FOR AMD IT IS ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE!1!!!11!!!!1111!

 

lol. 

[Citadelen]

10 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

-snip-

 

Hmm, I'm not convinced, you can bet if AMD had more money then Zen would turn out better.

[Snadzies]

4 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

It looks bad, being 2-3 gens behind, but then you have to understand that Intel typically sees 5% gains each generation, Kabylake is just a refresh as well.

The clock speeds, however, are concerning.

I wasn't concerned about Zen being a couple generations behind as that really isn't that large a gap.

It is the combination of being a couple gens behind AND slower clock speeds.

 

I was hoping for Zen to be a reasonably competitive and slightly cheaper option to Intel but now...

I'm concerned Zen is going to be far enough behind Intel that AMD will have to very aggressively price Zen, making them less money and leaving them with no money for future R&D and thus putting them right back where they started.

[Coaxialgamer]

3 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

Hmm, I'm not convinced, you can bet if AMD had more money then Zen would turn out better.

AMD does have a lot of debt and they desperately need money , that is a fact , and it won't change for some time .  

 

We also need to remember that while plausible , this is still a rumor

[Citadelen]

Just now, Coaxialgamer said:

-snip-

True, but they recently cut their debt in half...

 

3 minutes ago, Snadzies said:

-snip-

 

Zen won't be that far behind, it'll make AMD money, you can relatively safe in that assumption.

[Master Disaster]

7 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

Called it! 4GHz 8-cores in a 95W TDP with Intel-like performance per clock was laughable from the word go.

But bare mhz is meaningless, I mean most motorbikes rev upto more than most ferraris, doesn't make them faster. 

 

We need to know the Ipc numbers to get the real measure. 

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

But bare mhz is meaningless, I mean most motorbikes rev upto more than most ferraris, doesn't make them faster. 

 

We need to know the Ipc numbers to get the real measure. 

There are multiple rumors/leaks indicating IPC somewhere between ivy and broadwell. Of course they're just rumors, but that's still what I would expect at this point.

[Dackzy]

4 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

i beg your pardon? 800$? you know what a 6700k is right? 

the 6700k is a quad core cpu with HT, so when you open task manager you see 8 cores, but you can also read.

Cores: 4

logical processors: 8

[Misanthrope]

Zen doesn't looks to replace or even touch intel on high end and enthusiast levels but for ghetto rigs it might be a viable 4 core gamer rig: I'd be interesting not to keep recomending nothing but intel chips at least for gamers. Hopefully they can price the 4 core below the 6700k so it can offer performance closer to the 6500 but with hyperthreading (or whatever AMD calls their fancier scheduler)

[Energycore]

8 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

Called it! 4GHz 8-cores in a 95W TDP with Intel-like performance per clock was laughable from the word go.

Intel 8-Core even has a 140W TDP so at least we can consider overclocking the Zen CPU to match that TDP

[Doobeedoo]

Even though it's ES it's odd that both 8-core and quad core chips are so very closely clocked. Also it may be that quad core part is yet to be a certain tier of quads, who knows, it's still early to tell. Just odd to me a bit about clock speeds, how much does it have to do with node they're build on.