AMD Releases More Details on Zen's Architecture

[Demonking]

52 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

6-core for $300 or bust

5820k 

[That Norwegian Guy]

32 minutes ago, Demonking said:

5820k 

no consumer motherboards though, so final cost of system is €100 higher

 

And the 5820K is over $450 in Norway.

 

So let me rephrase the original post:

$300 (after import, tax, VAT, etc) IN EUROPE 6-core or bust

[NumLock21]

Tldr

Here is one from anandtech

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10578/amd-zen-microarchitecture-dual-schedulers-micro-op-cache-memory-hierarchy-revealed

[-CLASSIFIED-]

12 hours ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

Welcome aboard the Hype Train to Anticipation Square, passing through Suspense Park. Refreshments will be served in the restaurant carriage throughout the trip. We advise any Intel fanboys or AMD haters please exit the train now so as not to inconvenience the other travellers. Please enjoy your journey, and remember: Zen is coming. Get hyped.

shittt.... SHITTT IM ON THE WRONG TRAIN HALP 

[patrickjp93]

3 hours ago, Thony said:

It would be really nice if ZEN could compete with X99. Intel would finally start working hard instead of sailing with no wind for many years. I do not believe it will and I stand by my opinion until release date.

Intel has done practically all it can for old software that's

 

1) not programmed with branch, loop, I/O, and cache optimization in mind

2) Not vectorized under MMX, SSE1/2/3/4, AVX/2, FMA

3) not recompiled to have prime edge cares take advantage of newer instruction sets.

 

You can't make 2 integers add and store to a register or cache in less than a cycle. If it could be done IBM would have by now, as it's Intel's biggest competition. The era of big gains is over. Cache expansion could get us some, but we're stuck until software evolves.

[NuclearPeace]

If Zen is as fast as all of the marketing makes it up to be, then the era of cheap AMD CPUs are over.

 

The reason why AMD CPUs are cheap now is not because of design or a strategic plan by AMD to beat Intel CPUs on value. FX CPUs right now are dirt cheap because dirt cheap is the only price that they are somewhat competitive at. The FX series was never meant to be economical; the name itself should really give it away that it was never meant to be a $100 CPU for a budget gaming rig.

 

If Zen is truly competitive with Broadwell then you are more or less going to get the same prices as current Intel CPUs, but with slightly better value. There's no incentive for AMD to sell an 8 core CPU for $100 anymore.

[Dabombinable]

13 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Intel has done practically all it can for old software that's

 

1) not programmed with branch, loop, I/O, and cache optimization in mind

2) Not vectorized under MMX, SSE1/2/3/4, AVX/2, FMA

3) not recompiled to have prime edge cares take advantage of newer instruction sets.

 

You can't make 2 integers add and store to a register or cache in less than a cycle. If it could be done IBM would have by now, as it's Intel's biggest competition. The era of big gains is over. Cache expansion could get us some, but we're stuck until software evolves.

I'm still finding it funny that the LODGen tool for Skyrim is literally one of the few programs that actually gets the most out of my 4790K. It uses all 8 threads to around 90%, with the RAM (DDR3 1333) being the bottleneck, as when I run the single DDR3 1600 stick on its own, I see slightly higher CPU usage. And its a tool made only at the personal cost of the developer's free time.

 

Edit: That's with my 4790K at 4.7GHz stable BTW.

[patrickjp93]

52 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I'm still finding it funny that the LODGen tool for Skyrim is literally one of the few programs that actually gets the most out of my 4790K. It uses all 8 threads to around 90%, with the RAM (DDR3 1333) being the bottleneck, as when I run the single DDR3 1600 stick on its own, I see slightly higher CPU usage. And its a tool made only at the personal cost of the developer's free time.

 

Edit: That's with my 4790K at 4.7GHz stable BTW.

Doesn't necessarily mean they did top notch work with cache, and as for getting 100% CPU usage on all cores, that's no harder than.

 

for (uint i=0; i<coreCount; i++) {

    std::thread(void [](){while(true) {}});

}

 

If you can't see the code, you can't assume much. That said, if it's hitting RAM hard enough that bandwidth is an issue, chances are it's vectorized, but someone probably didn't think about clustering. Sometimes finishing all of one task on the whole batch of data is less efficient than taking a large chunk and advancing the task on that chunk by several steps and collating the results after finishing all chunks.

[Purgent]

I'm not a fan boy of either company.  That said, us consumers win when AMD is competitive with Intel. 

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

Doesn't necessarily mean they did top notch work with cache, and as for getting 100% CPU usage on all cores, that's no harder than.

 

for (uint i=0; i<coreCount; i++) {

    std::thread(void [](){while(true) {}});

}

 

If you can't see the code, you can't assume much. That said, if it's hitting RAM hard enough that bandwidth is an issue, chances are it's vectorized, but someone probably didn't think about clustering. Sometimes finishing all of one task on the whole batch of data is less efficient than taking a large chunk and advancing the task on that chunk by several steps and collating the results after finishing all chunks.

Well it does run shitloads slower on my i5 4440-it gets pegged out at 100% regardless of the available memory bandwidth. And I could actually test how much of an impact the cache has on it-since I found that the 4790K can have the cache ratio at 1:1 when the overclock is 4.6GHz (4.7GHz on the cache requires a bit too much voltage for comfort-so I stop there when overclocking it). I do know that in synthetics at least there is a significant difference between the cache at stock, and overclocked to 4.6Ghz-in bandwidth and latency (especially with the L3 cache).

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Well it does run shitloads slower on my i5 4440-it gets pegged out at 100% regardless of the available memory bandwidth. And I could actually test how much of an impact the cache has on it-since I found that the 4790K can have the cache ratio at 1:1 when the overclock is 4.6GHz (4.7GHz on the cache requires a bit too much voltage for comfort-so I stop there when overclocking it). I do know that in synthetics at least there is a significant difference between the cache at stock, and overclocked to 4.6Ghz-in bandwidth and latency (especially with the L3 cache).

Fair enough. Good for them.

[Matu20]

14 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

6-core for $300 or bust

They won't have hexa on launch, if I remember correctly, there will only be 4 and 8 core variants at launch.

[byalexandr]

23 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

The AMD hype machine is as usual, working at full throttle.

 

Let's just hope that their CPU engineers were, not as usual, working at full throttle too.

The only people that work for the AMD hype machine are the consumers that support AMD, not their marketing team. AMD doesn't try to disappoint, people get too worked up and get disappointed.

[AresKrieger]

 

If they keep hyping this up there is only one possible outcome, since it's very doubtful they can deliver on all of these claims.

[AresKrieger]

3 minutes ago, byalexandr said:

The only people that work for the AMD hype machine are the consumers that support AMD, not their marketing team. AMD doesn't try to disappoint, people get too worked up and get disappointed.

You say this but their marketing strategy is often hype in the form of a misrepresentation of expectations, the fanboys don't help matters but AMD is the root cause. That's why it keeps happening

[Misanthrope]

15 minutes ago, byalexandr said:

The only people that work for the AMD hype machine are the consumers that support AMD, not their marketing team. AMD doesn't try to disappoint, people get too worked up and get disappointed.

Umm right. Did you miss the fact that this are slides from an official AMD event? This isn't a "rumor" this is AMD straight out fucking telling us "Let's get hyped!"

[CTR640]

23 hours ago, Thony said:

Expect to have $200-300. Cant see AMD aiming any higher.

They can't aim any higher. AMD has caused too much damage to get trust being destroyed and it will gonna take a while to restore and gain the trust from customers. I would never pay €200+ for an AMD CPU as AMD is notorious for being weak CPU manufacturer.

 

[BirdyTheMighty]

zen looks good but i still wont belive it until its been release. If they are good then amd will become a choice again which is great a monopoly war is kinda lame.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

They can't aim any higher. AMD has caused too much damage to get trust being destroyed and it will gonna take a while to restore and gain the trust from customers. I would never pay €200+ for an AMD CPU as AMD is notorious for being weak CPU manufacturer.

 

Good luck with that.

In any case: that's why reviews exist; so you don't purchase a product blindly. 

[HKZeroFive]

For those hyped. Don't be.

 

AnandTech has a good write up on why you should be skeptical: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10585/unpacking-amds-zen-benchmark-is-zen-actually-2-faster-than-broadwell

[Mira Yurizaki]

I feel AMD's marketing is playing this up like they did with Polaris. Really all anyone can do is wait for the thing to be released and see what the benchmarks pull off in the end.

 

Really as long as AMD is within spitting distance of Intel in all aspects and not just certain aspects, they get an A for effort.

[IGJoe2192]

So many people are going to be let down again. The hype is real with this one. I know everyone wants them to go blow for blow with intel but let's just wait for the reviews and benchmarks... quit it with all of these "leaks" and again wait for the real information to present itself... I personally am getting sick and tired of all this build up bull crap. 

[Agosto]

Given the specs provided by Anandtech here, I'd say that Zen beating Broadwell-E in Blender was a best case scenario for AMD; Zen CPUs might be closer to Haswell than Broadwell.

Hope I'm wrong though, I would like to see AMD on top tiers again

[VerticalDiscussions]

Does AMD expect us to stay "ZEN" for much longer? Some people will go rampant instead with the waiting...

[Ridska]

This is the only time ill ever do this but , AMD is the best red communist party, i will support them unlike the blue Intel capitalist pigs. Unite my red brothers, let us crush the blue scum.

'' TOGETHER, WE ARE STRONG '' - Zarya .