FBI's claim about unlockable iPhone is 'bullshit' says snowden

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

The latest figure with an opinion on the fight between Apple and the FBI is none other than NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.
 

The FBI's claim that only Apple can bypass the security of the iPhone used by a terrorist is bogus.
 

Quote

"The FBI says Apple has the 'exclusive technical means' of getting into this phone,"

- Snowden said on Tuesday.
 

Snowden called the claim malarky, without using such a polite term said .

Quote

"Respectfully, that's bulls***,"

The FBI argues that the protections put in place by Apple cannot be overcome and that the iPhone 5C used by shooter Syed Farook is critical to its investigation of the December attack that left 14 people dead and another 22 wounded in San Bernardino, California.

 

 

 

 

 

Snowden followed up his comments by tweeting a link to a blog post from the American Civil Liberties Union that asserts the FBI is attempting to mislead the courts and the public about its ability to crack into the iPhone. In the post, ACLU technology fellow Daniel Kahn Gilmor calls the FBI's case against Apple a "power grab."
 

Quote

"The FBI wants us to think that this case is about a single phone, used by a terrorist, In fact, it is an attempt to weaken the ecosystem we all depend on for maintenance of our all-too-vulnerable devices and to ensure that future software updates contain deliberately weakened code." - Gilmor

 

The blog post also asserts that the FBI is misrepresenting the "auto-erase" feature it wants Apple to bypass and shows how the FBI could work around it.

The FBI's press office could not immediately be reached for comment. Apple did not respond to a request for comment.

Source : http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-cant-unlock-the-san-bernardino-iphone-is-bulls-t-2016-3?IR=T

[ben dover kid]

anyhow, this is kinda shitty for apple. i mean if people care about privacy and security in phones(haha, privacy and security in phones, what a joke) this is going to hurt apple, especially when they announce that apple didnt help, and FBI cracked the phone anyways. i wonder y the fuck they made this thing public anyways, just to get one company do this one time and then use it as excuse later on? also, you might find this interesting: apparently, if apple made that "golden key" , other countries can force apple to get it too. i would say that that guy is pretty trustworthy, hes from the university of nottingham.

 

[Trik'Stari]

We pretty much already knew this. Hell, the FBI basically had to admit to congress that this was just an attempt to set a precedent.

 

The FBI just needs to go screw themselves.

[RaymondL]

I think they should all get along and there should be no crime.

[vanished]

I'm not surprised; if Apple an do it, that means it can be done, which means it's not secure, which means anyone can do it with the right skills, in theory.

[iamdarkyoshi]

Plot twist: There is nothing on the locked iphone

[RaymondL]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Plot twist: There is nothing on the locked iphone

Plot twist: The phone was never locked.

[SImoHayha]

Just now, RaymondL said:

Plot twist: The phone was never locked.

Plot twist. It's actually a FBI agent phone.

[iamdarkyoshi]

Just now, Ramamataz said:

Plot twist. It's actually a FBI agent phone.

Plot twist: We stop derailing the thread

[Lilithty]

As pretty much everyone expected this story just keeps getting more and more interesting. I believe that the general idea of Apple (or anyone) creating a "manufacturer's backdoor" is a very heavy topic. The FBI claims (or claimed, I'm not sure if they have officially asked Apple to help with other phones as well) that this technology Would and could only be used for one phone. Well, without Apple taking massive lengths to prevent the entirety of how the backdoor worked being known by anyone (including those programming it) they would have to use massively complicated and inefficient double blind procedures as well as having the programmers work on safe machines then having the machines destroyed. 

 

Basically: yes there is a way to make this only work for one phone. However the amount of work Apple would have to do would be ridiculous. The FBI knows this and wants them to take a shorter route and make a general backdoor to Iphones. 

 

The FBI wants a new method to use in whatever they deem necessary. A hugely and dangerously powerful "toy" even when the past actions of similar groups of people are not considered. Look at the recent arstechnica article that made it on to the WAN show 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/02/nypd-used-stingrays-over-1000-times-without-warrants-since-2008/

 

The NYPD used a controversial method (the stingrays) WITHOUT CONSENT OR A FULL WARRANT. 

 

The FBI wants to get access to a controversial method (the backdoor) to use. They say it will be used for good things, stopping terrorism, etc etc. I'm sure it will be used for good. But the problem is when the FBI is going to use it for something less good. Imagine the fallout if the FBI or CIA (other American intelligence agency) were discovered using that backdoor on an Iphone from a foreign dignitary. 

 

Well that was my rant and i've basically lost my train of thought so I'm going to end it up here by saying:

 

The FBI is trying to get a new method of spying / information gathering

The FBI is going about this the wrong way.

 

If there is anything I overlooked please don't hesitate to correct me.

 

Oh forgot to also link this post:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/new-york-anti-encryption-bill-apple-privacy-a6812951.html

 

Basically another example of the Gov. wanting to screw the phone manufacturers into letting them have power over the normal people. 

$2,500 per phone that isn't able to be broken into by the government? 

That's beyond insane.

 

That would be like the government charging a home builder 1.5 - 2 MILLION DOLLARS per house they built if they didn't hand over the keys to the government before they even started to build the house. 

[Looniper]

Not sure how the question of why it was made Public would come up..
That was the whole Point of this mess.

They are using this incident to generate popular support for the upcoming variant on the Cybersecurity bill that will basically roll the previous up with a SIPA/SOPA series of amendments and some extra invasion to boot.

All conveniently packaged to remove what little Privacy we actually have in terms of communications technology.

And those of us who have paid attention thusfar will be left wondering WHY since as it turned out, the feds already Have the data!
Because as it turned out, remember, the feds already had full access to Byte-Level data passing through Apple's cloud servers to these devices.. meaning the only 'secure' data in this whole situation would be something that was entered into the phone by the user, but never Sent.

But I guess we'll all feel nice and safe knowing that Personal Notes one leaves to themselves are no longer out there to threaten us.. and it only means giving them access to everything we do and say online, no matter how 'private' we try to make it.

[Prysin]

8 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Plot twist: There is nothing on the locked iphone

and the "wallpaper" is "jarvis", "a terribly shopped John Cena" or "dickbutt"

[vanished]

10 minutes ago, RaymondL said:

Plot twist: The phone was never locked.

I can see that happening.  More than once I've seen a group of people waiting outside a room, and I just walked right in.  Turns out everyone just assumed the door was locked but no one actually bothered to check.

[Lilithty]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

12 minutes ago, RaymondL said:

Plot twist: The phone was never locked.

I can see that happening.  More than once I've seen a group of people waiting outside a room, and I just walked right in.  Turns out everyone just assumed the door was locked but no one actually bothered to check.

In a casual setting yes, those kind of assumptive errors can be made. Like you said, the classic story of the people just standing in line outside an unlocked door.

 

But...... when it comes to the FBI or government, they don't wait. It would be like a swat team coming to a building and not trying the door and just waiting outside until something happened. They don't do that. They will kick down the door. And if they can't kick down the door then they will make someone do it for them.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Lilithty said:

In a casual setting yes, those kind of assumptive errors can be made. Like you said, the classic story of the people just standing in line outside an unlocked door.

 

But...... when it comes to the FBI or government, they don't wait. It would be like a swat team coming to a building and not trying the door and just waiting outside until something happened. They don't do that. They will kick down the door. And if they can't kick down the door then they will make someone do it for them.

I don't know... they may have been so focused on hacking it that they didn't realize it's not working because there was no lock to break  

/s

[RaymondL]

I dont get it why wont apple just get it over with and unlock the phone? Theres is a reason why the FBI wants to get into it and it is for the good reason and even if apple is trying to ensure security of apple users handsets apple must surely understand should they not? If they do unlock the phone then those who stand up against apple for unlocking the phone surely they are in the wrong as they are trying to defend a murderer? 

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, RaymondL said:

I dont get it why wont apple just get it over with and unlock the phone? Theres is a reason why the FBI wants to get into it and it is for the good reason and even if apple is trying to ensure security of apple users handsets apple must surely understand should they not? If they do unlock the phone then those who stand up against apple for unlocking the phone surely they are in the wrong as they are trying to defend a murderer? 

Is this the first you're hearing of this story?  It must be or you'd know the whole counter-argument by now

[RaymondL]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Is this the first you're hearing of this story?  It must be or you'd know the whole counter-argument by now

About opening a backdoor?

Surely they can just do it to 1 handset?

[Prysin]

4 minutes ago, RaymondL said:

I dont get it why wont apple just get it over with and unlock the phone? Theres is a reason why the FBI wants to get into it and it is for the good reason and even if apple is trying to ensure security of apple users handsets apple must surely understand should they not? If they do unlock the phone then those who stand up against apple for unlocking the phone surely they are in the wrong as they are trying to defend a murderer? 

i would support that notion.

 

If and only if Apple could have 10kg of C4 in order to physically remove EVERY SINGLE BIT of that backdoor once it was used.

[vanished]

Just now, RaymondL said:

About opening a backdoor?

Surely they can just do it to 1 handset?

No not really because then there will be another phone they want hacked, and another, and so on.  If this is a good enough reason, there will be other "good reasons" too and it will never stop.  Do just a little reading around and you'll see lots of discussion about this.  I really can't believe you've managed to miss it all so far...

[Lilithty]

1 minute ago, RaymondL said:

I dont get it why wont apple just get it over with and unlock the phone? Theres is a reason why the FBI wants to get into it and it is for the good reason and even if apple is trying to ensure security of apple users handsets apple must surely understand should they not? If they do unlock the phone then those who stand up against apple for unlocking the phone surely they are in the wrong as they are trying to defend a murderer? 

A logical argument that really isn't Wrong per-se. And yes, if the FBI just wanted Apple to unlock this one phone. And that was it. Then it wouldnt be a huge deal.

 

But because of how governmental entities tend to work (read always)

the FBI wants apple to build a way to de-crypt any Iphone. If apple does this the FBI will have them unlock any phone they can. Let's say apple unlocks them. Then the FBI will want control of the process to unlock the Iphones. It wont stop. 

 

So basically, if the argument was over whether or not Apple should unlock the phone, and that was it. No outside context, then the answer would be yes.

BUT:

Because the method to do this would be able to be used on any phone this method would be extremely dangerous.

Also the FBI doesn't want the phone unlocked. They want the backdoor implemented. 

 

Your argument about defending the murderer is not applicable in this case. See above ^ the problem isn't the one phone. the problem is the precedent it sets. Also apple has no legal obligation to unlock the phone (sortof) but thats an argument for another day.

[Lilithty]

@RaymondLRead my first post. I briefly talk about how difficult it would be to create the backdoor for only one phone.

 

But I love to talk so I'll elaborate:

 

Basically you need to have one person that knows the entire process. Head of programming at Apple or something. Someone high up that would have the defense of the company if the government tried to get them to tell them how to use the method.

 

This person breaks the method of unlocking the phone down into as many segmented parts as they can. Then they have programmers randomly picked until there are 2-3 times as many as there are segments of the method.

 

Then each programmer is sealed away in a isolated room until they have completed the code they are required to code. They are not allowed outside contact. They sign NDAs out the ass. Then they probably get a decent bonus for their work. 

 

Some programmers are assigned to work on actual segments of the method. Some are assigned to work on fake segments. 

Some are assigned to work on both.

None of them know if they are working on the real segment or not.

Basically they are all given a description of what their code needs to do. And they do it.

 

Once the programmers have finished they leave. The person in charge checks once that the method works. They make a physical copy of the code. As in write down on a notepad the code used. Then, every computer used by the programmers is destroyed thoroughly. So is the phone that the program was tested on.

 

Then the FBI gives apple the phone. Apple has a hardcoded machine that will run the program once and then wipe everything. The program was entered into this machine by the person in charge. The physical copy of the notes is destroyed (obviously). And the phone is decrypted. 

 

Can you see how complicated it is? And the scenario I described still has plenty of problems. This would be utterly impractical for Apple to do even once. Not to mention every time the government wanted a phone decrypted. 

[vanished]

5 minutes ago, Lilithty said:

*snip*

I think the bigger issue is that it is possible for Apple to actually bypass the security.  If there was simply no way it could even be done, this wouldn't be an issue.  I think Apple should push an OTA update to all phones that removes the possibility of them being able to hack any in the future (for real tho - not being able to get in because you won't try, like the way it is now, doesn't freaking count! ).  Then, they would be free to hack the phone in question (since it would not have received the update) without any real worries since it's not like they could do it again to anyone else.  I think that's the best way to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, and provide a win-win for everyone.

[Lilithty]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

That is actually a great idea. Although I don't see a way that they could do that. Any update they could push to this phone they could push to any phone. 

 

Also what would be changed in the new version of IOS that would make it so they couldn't unlock it?

[Trik'Stari]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I think the bigger issue is that it is possible for Apple to actually bypass the security.  If there was simply no way it could even be done, this wouldn't be an issue.  I think Apple should push an OTA update to all phones that removes the possibility of them being able to hack any in the future (for real tho - not being able to get in because you won't try, like the way it is now, doesn't freaking count! ).  Then, they would be free to hack the phone in question (since it would not have received the update) without any real worries since it's not like they could do it again to anyone else.  I think that's the best way to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, and provide a win-win for everyone.

The problem there, is that it sets a precedent, and the FBI could just order them to create an update that undoes your hypothetical update.

 

None of this is about the phone. It's about setting a precedent, whereby the federal government can force a company to do something that is actively bad for the consumers.