GLOBAL COOLING? 60% MORE ICE?

[threadysparrow]

There was never such a consensus among scientists that said in the 80s that we were headed into an ice age. That was media hype. There is however an overwhelming consensus by scientists not even in the field of climate study, but scientists from other areas of science as well who understand the peer review process, understand the data, understand the hypotheses, and understand how theories work that look at the data and say "Wow this is overwhelming evidence"
 

Nothing in science has 100% evidence or support. Gravity doesn't have 100% evidence for the theory. But there is such an overwhelming amount of evidence for gravity and there is no legitimate counterpoint that can stand up to scrutiny, that the theory of gravity is the best that science can think of. Therefore, science says gravity exists based on the evidence. Being able to see gravity waves is like being able to see ice sheet data. Gravity waves in and of themselves do not prove gravity. Ice sheet data in and of itself does not prove AGW.

 

But, when coupled with the math and the previous data, there is no logical counterpoint to the theory of human caused climate change.

 

If you guys know who Niel Degrasse Tyson is, then listen to his logic when debating climate change. For those of you who don't know who he is, he is an astro physicist (kind of like Raj on the Big Bang Theory) and he is like a rock star in the scientific community because he and Bill Nye the Science Guy are the tip of the spear in the battle to educate the masses about climate change. Their logic is sound logic, their logic is valid logic, and their logic is true logic.

 

There is no government power grab with global warming. There is no hoax. There is only truth. The truth of the matter is that with our pollution and emissions, we are changing the balance of CO2 in the atmosphere to the point where the earth's oceans cannot compensate enough and it is slowly but surely heating up the globe.

 

If this were a hoax, there would be WAY too many whistle blowers from within the scientific community for the hoaxsters to keep up the charade. But what you have are blogs, circumstantial evidence, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and a few ex-NASA employees who all rely on the appeal to motive fallacy and rely on the authority of the pseudo-experts. I have heard all this anti global warming crap for a long time and it never made sense to me even when I was a kid.

 

Global warming is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. I have no idea how this whole thing got started. Maybe it was when Al Gore, a democrat, opened his mouth. It is in the DNA of political parties to disagree with each other over every damn issue out there. This does not have to be a lib vs con issue. John McCain, Jon Huntsman, and Mitt Romney, 3 people who I like, all agree when it comes to global warming.

[rustikles]

What you fail to understand is that a hundreds of throusands year scale is completely irrelevant when a few dozen years is enough to wipe out the human race.

 

Because that's happened so many times before.

[threadysparrow]

Because that's happened so many times before.

We haven't had carbon dioxide producing combustion engines before.

[nicehat]

 

Global warming is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. I have no idea how this whole thing got started. Maybe it was when Al Gore, a democrat, opened his mouth. It is in the DNA of political parties to disagree with each other over every damn issue out there. This does not have to be a lib vs con issue. John McCain, Jon Huntsman, and Mitt Romney, 3 people who I like, all agree when it comes to global warming.

 

Here's one reason

 

Vice President Al Gore was one of the main architects of the Kyoto Protocol during 1997 while in office. Then President Bill Clinton signed the agreement......

 

 

George Bush backed out of the Kyoto protocol despite making campaign promises during his 2000 bid for the white house to lower carbon emissions. This is why it is a political issue. Lobby groups of mining corporations oil and gas etc pressured Bush and he, their puppet, buckled. 

[Lyons]

I did not know advocating the "truth" required being a condescending ass (as in the donkey).

Sometimes that's what it takes, I mean you said THIS on the first page:

 

It is like a giant heartbeat. I hope that blew your mind.

Things get colder one year, and hotter the next, personally I think of it as a spinning top, or like Cosine, swinging back and forth from one extreme to another. 

Or Alternating current. Whatever.

I am actually convinved that you are a troll, and a very good one at that. Saying something like above is JUST like something out of the bible. Honestly, it's just mundane bullshit that completely excuses reality and makes up some silly reasoning for it. We have explanations for these things. It's like saying, 'the sky is blue because it's reflecting the colour of the ocean!!!'.

Now, onto all you guys who are apparently reknowned climate scientists and think you know exactly what you're talking about:

 

Anthropogenic climate change is a hoax.

 

Also there is a cycle in which the temperatures of the north and South Pole change together but in the opposite direction. In this cycle the North Pole will experience a cold period and the South Pole will experience a less cold experience (even when warming happens in either of the poles the situation can’t exactly be described as warm) and vice versa.

Because that's happened so many times before.

hey guys. what happened to that ice age we were getting into in the 80s?

people need to stop comparing global warming to recent events and compare it to the entire history of the earth. how much land right now historically is an ocean? most deserts are remnants of oceans and current temps are still lower than the average from history.

May I refer you, and any others, to my post on page 2:

 

You have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to deny that global warming is a serious issue. Like, seriously, this is the largest single health crisis the human race has ever faced, and there are still fools out there who don't believe it. It amazes me; this is the kind of thing that frustrates me to no end, the only thing worse is that some of those people are POLITICIANS. How can anybody think that our footprint on the earth could have zero effect on it? The Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years and we've only been pumping shit into it for a couple of hundred, and the signs are already appearing. Wake up everyone, denying climate change is LITERALLY on the same level as denying the fact that smoking causes cancer. The world doesn't have room for non-progressive, non-environmentally-conscience people any more.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/fact-checking-the-global-warming-deniers-20130912

 

http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/

 

http://www.livescience.com/topics/global-warming/

 

http://climate.nasa.gov/

 

http://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/

 

 

And might I add, calling global warming a 'hoax' is fucking idiotic.

Watch the video and read the damn links. It may just swing you ignoramus view.

[DirkaFat]

Sometimes that's what it takes, I mean you said THIS on the first page:

 

I am actually convinved that you are a troll, and a very good one at that. Saying something like above is JUST like something out of the bible. Honestly, it's just mundane bullshit that completely excuses reality and makes up some silly reasoning for it. We have explanations for these things.

Now, onto all you guys who are apparently reknowned climate scientists and think you know exactly what you're talking about:

 

May I refer you, and any others, to my post on page 2:

 

Watch the video and read the damn links. It may just swing you ignoramus view.

Swing?

[Lyons]

Swing?

 

That's very, very different  :lol:

[DirkaFat]

That's very, very different  :lol:

I edited the post

 

Seemed too off topic

[Vitalius]

Sometimes that's what it takes, I mean you said THIS on the first page:

I am actually convinved that you are a troll, and a very good one at that. Saying something like above is JUST like something out of the bible. Honestly, it's just mundane bullshit that completely excuses reality and makes up some silly reasoning for it. We have explanations for these things. It's like saying, 'the sky is blue because it's reflecting the colour of the ocean!!!'.

So "troll" <-> "Saying something like above is JUST like something out of the bible."... Alrighty then. Bigotry shining through as strongly as ever, but whatever.

See, I think in imagery. It is kinda how I understand and connect things. There is a lot of that in the Bible, so I can understand why you would say that. You can blame video games for that.

You do realize that quote is speaking about Climate Change , correct? Here it is again:

 

It is like a giant heartbeat. I hope that blew your mind.

Things get colder one year, and hotter the next, personally I think of it as a spinning top, or like Cosine, swinging back and forth from one extreme to another. 

Or Alternating current. Whatever.

... That is what Climate change effectively is, things getting hotter (or colder) than they usually are/were. The extremes becoming more extreme. In other words, the "it" in that quote is "Global Warming" or "climate change" or "weather". Any and all apply. Spinning Top was said because I could not remember the word Oscillate. Replace it with that.

As for all this:

"Honestly, it's just mundane bullshit that completely excuses reality and makes up some silly reasoning for it. We have explanations for these things. It's like saying, 'the sky is blue because it's reflecting the colour of the ocean!!!'."

I think you are just being an idiot now. Oh, and terrible analogy. That is nothing like what I said. I am sorry, but I did not explain anything. I did not give reason for anything. It was a simile. Is that really so hard to understand? And if you understood that, why be such an ass about it?

Think about how the Earth would look completely flat. Then draw a line along the disparity between hot and cold (effectively the difference between summer and winter in the Northern and Southern hemisphere). Then imagine how that line shifts as the Earth revolves around the Sun and the seasons change. It looks like Cosine. At least to me it does. You could do that to a map of the Earth with different  shades denoting night and day, and it would look the same way. 

If you do the same thing, and treat Heat as representing higher blood pressure, it looks like how your heart would look as it pumps blood. The left 2 chambers, then the right, then left, alternating. I think it is pretty cool that the weather system on the Earth is kinda similar to how a heart works. At least to me it is.

I just find that stuff cool, and I wanted to share it with people.

It is not me trying to explain any of this away (Why would I when I agree with the basis of it all?). And if you really could not understand that, there is nothing more I could say to change the direction this conversation has taken.

[Canoas]

Because that's happened so many times before.

 

Last time it happened there weren't 7 billion people on the planet willing to start WW3 in order to survive. Global warming is already making water scarce, and that alone is enough to start a war, but it'll also make a lot of land simply impossible to live in if it continues like this and if entire countries have to be "realocated" then shit will go down. Just imagine what would happen if America became unlivable in and Africa suddenly became the most propicious continent for human life?

[Poohy14]

i have been lied to my whole life now

[_ASSASSIN_]

This proves global warming is and always was a hokes .

*hoax 

[_ASSASSIN_]

i have been lied to my whole life now

you just have to look at the patterns, yes we do have an affect on the climate by our over consumption of resources to type to each other right now, but just look at the past and you will see this has happened with global cooling and global warming happening every era or so

[Youbetternot]

Global cooling! For the win!

[Lyons]

So "troll" <-> "Saying something like above is JUST like something out of the bible."... Alrighty then. Bigotry shining through as strongly as ever, but whatever.

See, I think in imagery. It is kinda how I understand and connect things. There is a lot of that in the Bible, so I can understand why you would say that. You can blame video games for that.

You do realize that quote is speaking about Climate Change , correct? Here it is again:

... That is what Climate change effectively is, things getting hotter (or colder) than they usually are/were. The extremes becoming more extreme. In other words, the "it" in that quote is "Global Warming" or "climate change" or "weather". Any and all apply. Spinning Top was said because I could not remember the word Oscillate. Replace it with that.

As for all this:

"Honestly, it's just mundane bullshit that completely excuses reality and makes up some silly reasoning for it. We have explanations for these things. It's like saying, 'the sky is blue because it's reflecting the colour of the ocean!!!'."

I think you are just being an idiot now. Oh, and terrible analogy. That is nothing like what I said. I am sorry, but I did not explain anything. I did not give reason for anything. It was a simile. Is that really so hard to understand? And if you understood that, why be such an ass about it?

Think about how the Earth would look completely flat. Then draw a line along the disparity between hot and cold (effectively the difference between summer and winter in the Northern and Southern hemisphere). Then imagine how that line shifts as the Earth revolves around the Sun and the seasons change. It looks like Cosine. At least to me it does. You could do that to a map of the Earth with different shades denoting night and day, and it would look the same way.

If you do the same thing, and treat Heat as representing higher blood pressure, it looks like how your heart would look as it pumps blood. The left 2 chambers, then the right, then left, alternating. I think it is pretty cool that the weather system on the Earth is kinda similar to how a heart works. At least to me it is.

I just find that stuff cool, and I wanted to share it with people.

It is not me trying to explain any of this away (Why would I when I agree with the basis of it all?). And if you really could not understand that, there is nothing more I could say to change the direction this conversation has taken.

Gee, you REALLY ramble on, and I'm about 90% sure you're a troll.

[Vitalius]

Gee, you REALLY ramble on, and I'm about 90% sure you're a troll.

[ttam]

This will give Al Gore a heart attack.

 

[LogicalDrm]

First some facts based on my 6 year long education in uni and books I've read during that time:

In terms of glactiation and deglaciation (Ice Age as media calls it) something like global warming is really minor thing. Glaciation is period when global yearly mean temperature drops under 12C. Currently we have glaciation period or actually warmer period between two cold ones. Scientific term is interglacial. There have been many known similiar periods before and there most likely will be after this one. There propably won't be massive global warming in near future. For last few years global temp mean has dropped few degs but not enought to count. Reason this period is interglacial rather than warmer interstadial, is polar icing. There's too much ice to be counted as warmer period. All ice must melt before it really is global warming.

 

Now more my opinions on this subject. Global warming is media thing. Its good way to get readers, make shit Hollywood movie (2012, Day After Tomorrow) and get people realize more important problems. Like using Earth out of resources and destroying ozone layer. These are real problems since both grow constantly and there isn't natural or unnatural ways to prevent them. Everytime there's something that is not normal (btw. what is normal?) it must be GLOBAL WARMING or ICE AGE or END OF THE WORLD!!! ok, bit overboard there. Still, more ice over one year while last year was warmer than in past 20 years? Not surprising. Or when it comes more snow than in last year or temps drop more than in few years. media call out the ice age card. It just good publicity and masses buy it. I mean most of people have only basic education (and some slept over it).

[mr moose]

Pfffft.  In the 70's the government paid scientists said we were heading for an ice age and we had to start preparing for that. Guess what? it didn't happen.

In the 80's the same scientists said the hole in the Ozone layer was going to kill us all and that crude oil would run out by 1994. Guess what? didn't happen.

In the 90's these same government paid scientists told us we were experiencing global warming due soley to CO2 made by humans and that sea levels would rise 2 metres by 2010. Guess what? It hasn't

 

After 20 years the average temps have only gone up 0.7^oC and are not going up anymore, they are now telling us that anything that happens be it a tornado, flood, tsunami or heat wave is the direct result of global warming and we must do something about it.  It has become a self fullfiling proficy not an imperical science with repeatable, falsifiable experiments.

 

We even had our govenment appointed head of climate change tell us that Queensland (an Australian state) would forever be in drought and never seen rain like it used to due to climate change, He said this was the undeniable truth as reported by climate scientists based on their undeniable studies. 6 months later Queensland experienced the worst floods it has ever seen and one year on it happened again.

 

Anyone who has been around for 40 years or more with half a brain will know just how much bull dust these governement bodies push trying to use science as leverage for their obvious other agendas.

 

I have met farmers who have predicted long term wheather patterns better than the BOM.

 

/rant   everyone can go back to being bamboozled with government BS and hippy propoganda now.

[Deus Ragno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH5D9P6KYfY

[Canoas]

you just have to look at the patterns, yes we do have an affect on the climate by our over consumption of resources to type to each other right now, but just look at the past and you will see this has happened with global cooling and global warming happening every era or so

It has indeed happened in the past, but never this fast. In the past 150 years, with the beginning coinciding exactly with the industrial revolution, the climate has undergone changes that should have taken thousands of years, and that is the problem. No one denies that there have been ice ages in the past, but the causes for those ice ages were very much different.

 

 

Pfffft.  In the 70's the government paid scientists said we were heading for an ice age and we had to start preparing for that. Guess what? it didn't happen.

In the 80's the same scientists said the hole in the Ozone layer was going to kill us all and that crude oil would run out by 1994. Guess what? didn't happen.

In the 90's these same government paid scientists told us we were experiencing global warming due soley to CO2 made by humans and that sea levels would rise 2 metres by 2010. Guess what? It hasn't

What you fail to understand is not that prediciton of climate changes is not an exact science, but also that for the past 30 years there have been A LOT of measures taken to reduce emissions. If nothing had been done then you can be sure as hell we would be a lot worse by now.

 

After 20 years the average temps have only gone up 0.7^oC and are not going up anymore, they are now telling us that anything that happens be it a tornado, flood, tsunami or heat wave is the direct result of global warming and we must do something about it.  It has become a self fullfiling proficy not an imperical science with repeatable, falsifiable experiments.

It's amazing how you can know so little yet speak like you know everything. The earth has a big feedback system set in place to ensure temperatures don't fluctuate, and the ice caps are responsible for it. If the temperature rises then the ice caps will melt a little more and inject cold water into the oceans, bring the temperature back down. That's why the temperature has barely been affected but the sea level is rising and the ice caps have been reduced tremendously.

 

We even had our govenment appointed head of climate change tell us that Queensland (an Australian state) would forever be in drought and never seen rain like it used to due to climate change, He said this was the undeniable truth as reported by climate scientists based on their undeniable studies. 6 months later Queensland experienced the worst floods it has ever seen and one year on it happened again.

OMG WE ONLY HAVE TERRIBLE FLOODS THAT WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE! THE CLIMATE IS OK!

Maybe his information was incorrect or maybe you just didn't pay attention to what he said, either way you proved yourself wrong.

 

Anyone who has been around for 40 years or more with half a brain will know just how much bull dust these governement bodies push trying to use science as leverage for their obvious other agendas.

Yep, because the one thing governments, who willingly go to war over oil with billions of dollars invested in those industries, want is for people to start using hybrids and electric cars! If the predicted climate change is all bullshit the governments made up then all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot over and over again. Governments would profit if everyone used oil for everything and the price of crude oil skyrocketed, not the exact opposite.

[nicehat]

Pfffft.  In the 70's the government paid scientists said we were heading for an ice age and we had to start preparing for that. Guess what? it didn't happen.

In the 80's the same scientists said the hole in the Ozone layer was going to kill us all and that crude oil would run out by 1994. Guess what? didn't happen.

In the 90's these same government paid scientists told us we were experiencing global warming due soley to CO2 made by humans and that sea levels would rise 2 metres by 2010. Guess what? It hasn't

 

After 20 years the average temps have only gone up 0.7^oC and are not going up anymore, they are now telling us that anything that happens be it a tornado, flood, tsunami or heat wave is the direct result of global warming and we must do something about it.  It has become a self fullfiling proficy not an imperical science with repeatable, falsifiable experiments.

 

We even had our govenment appointed head of climate change tell us that Queensland (an Australian state) would forever be in drought and never seen rain like it used to due to climate change, He said this was the undeniable truth as reported by climate scientists based on their undeniable studies. 6 months later Queensland experienced the worst floods it has ever seen and one year on it happened again.

 

Anyone who has been around for 40 years or more with half a brain will know just how much bull dust these governement bodies push trying to use science as leverage for their obvious other agendas.

 

I have met farmers who have predicted long term wheather patterns better than the BOM.

 

/rant   everyone can go back to being bamboozled with government BS and hippy propoganda now.

 

 

And what are these nefarious government agendas? Responsible use of the precious resources that have graced this tiny spec of dust in the middle of an empty galaxy? How about those devious attempts to haul in carbon emissions so that the next generation can grow without the effects of respiratory disease like asthma, and COPD? How about those asshole government bodies diabolically trying to ensure that extinction grips one less species of animal due to Human meddling of the world around us?

 

Listen you dolt, I dare you and anyone of these other asshats to go tell someone from the Maldives that Global Warming is bullshit. You opponents of Global warming probably dont even know where it is. Ok, how about Venice. Im sure you apes can appreciate that coastal cities like Venice, Santa Monica, Long Beach are all sinking into the Ocean? Can you idiots comprehend this?  

 

EDIT - These costal areas have been around since the dawn of man. Why do you think with the advent of the industrial revolution that these areas are disappearing at an accelerated rate? 

 

READ (if you can) - THINK - SPEAK

[Vitalius]

 Ok, how about Venice. Im sure you apes can appreciate that coastal cities like Venice, Santa Monica, Long Beach are all sinking into the Ocean? Can you idiots comprehend this?  

Just saying, the Sea Levels rising is not the only threat to Venice. The city, itself, is also sinking. Not saying you are wrong, simply giving food for thought.

[mr moose]

 

Yep, because the one thing governments, who willingly go to war over oil with billions of dollars invested in those industries, want is for people to start using hybrids and electric cars! If the predicted climate change is all bullshit the governments made up then all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot over and over again. Governments would profit if everyone used oil for everything and the price of crude oil skyrocketed, not the exact opposite.

 

 

I am not saying it is a conspiracy or anything silly like that, I am merely pointing out that there is so much they don't know and they should stop making specific predictions until they do know.  Otherwise everytime they open their mouth it will be just a little bit more evidence that they don't know what they talking about.

It's amazing how you can know so little yet speak like you know everything.

 

That is because if you read my post I didn't actually say  anything that was unture. Everything I said is an observation of what Governement paid scientist, govenment and other interested parties have said and what has actually happened.  Causality is still up for debate. 

 The earth has a big feedback system set in place to ensure temperatures don't fluctuate, and the ice caps are responsible for it. If the temperature rises then the ice caps will melt a little more and inject cold water into the oceans, bring the temperature back down. That's why the temperature has barely been affected but the sea level is rising and the ice caps have been reduced tremendously.

 

The earth has a whole shit load more than a feed back system that effects the heating cooling effects.  What humans have done to reduce our impact on climate has been almost moot in terms of the net effect. CO2 is still going up, aerolsols are still going up, etc etc etc.

 

Try watching this all the way through, it's an hour I know but it's absolutely amazing. A great view into what we know and DON'T know about climate change. 

OMG WE ONLY HAVE TERRIBLE FLOODS THAT WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE! THE CLIMATE IS OK!

Maybe his information was incorrect or maybe you just didn't pay attention to what he said, either way you proved yourself wrong.

No, I said we have experienced terrible floods that we have experienced before and that our local climate change expert told us they would never happen. I was simply pointing out another case of prediction that didn't happen.

 

So before the floods the prediction was that they would never happen again and after the floods the reponses is "well of course we have floods, that's the result of global warming".  As I said, climate science is bevoming a self fulfiling prophecy.

 

 

 

Listen you dolt, I dare you and anyone of these other asshats to go tell someone from the Maldives that Global Warming is bullshit. You opponents of Global warming probably dont even know where it is. Ok, how about Venice. Im sure you apes can appreciate that coastal cities like Venice, Santa Monica, Long Beach are all sinking into the Ocean? Can you idiots comprehend this?  

 

EDIT - These costal areas have been around since the dawn of man. Why do you think with the advent of the industrial revolution that these areas are disappearing at an accelerated rate? 

 

READ (if you can) - THINK - SPEAK

 

Insults are the last resort of a failed argument.

[Mooshi]

Sudden flash back of hearing lots of talk of global warming and being cold that year.