[Updated 11/4/15] Fallout 4 to NOT feature Nvidia Gameworks, but Nvidia is still working with Bethesda on the game.

[ClockworkDeity]

For me it's all about fragmentation. PC Gaming is getting more and more fragmented, from guys who sell - pardon my french - fucking hardware.

They don't make content, they never created studios and fully funded game, like the console guys. They cut corners to put their poor implementations of bloatware in exchange to put a sticker in a game.

I'm all for supporting developers, for the sake of the platform. There's not PC NVIDIA, PC AMD, PC INTEL... it's PC platform.

 

And you know my position about NVIDIA, I don't hide it - these guys make no contributions to the industry, they are fueled by false advertisement, and even have the audacity to use open standards while they enforce IP licensing.

Mark my words - NVIDIA is just warming up with the gaming experience shit. Drivers was the first step, next time you know you'll have your pc games locked to NVIDIA hardware, just like they are doing with other hardware like monitors.

except that it's always been this way, the pc platform has always been fragmented by hardware. this is not some new phenomena.

[thebennyboy]

It is only AMD's fault if it runs like garbage

 

Must be AMDs fault that Nvidia like to fill games with unneeded crap that adds no value to the game? Considering Gameworks was probably just bodged into this engine it's probably going to run like crap on release.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Must be AMDs fault that Nvidia like to fill games with unneeded crap that adds no value to the game? Considering Gameworks was probably just bodged into this engine it's probably going to run like crap on release.

yeah, that's what they say when their GPU start with an ''R''...i feel for you man, i really do

[SkilledRebuilds]

Whats the harm in turning it off if NEED be. AMD users..It's still the SAME game as intended with its original effects in place (with some easily ignored small extra fidelity added on top or to replace certain effects)

 

Everyone always says "Graphics are less important that Gameplay"

Plus when I was reading around, seems FO4 is going to use tech from both companies.

 

While not a complete solution to gameworks as this only covers one aspect.

Reducing Tesselation multi's (@16x, not 32-64) for that specific game via AMD's control panels for lesser of a hit, worked on other games, who's to say this isn't the same again, and will bring performance+effects into fruition for those users.

[Morgan MLGman]

yeah, that's what they say when their GPU start with an ''R''...i feel for you man, i really do

HairWorks in The Witcher 3 proves his point though, nobody with the right mind uses it, I didn't use it with my GTX 970 cause it dropped FPS dramatically and I'm not using it with my 290X now as well despite getting more FPS average.

GameWorks in Batman: Arkham Knight are awesome though, they take some VRAM but they don't cripple the game as hairworks does

[Helly]

By that logic, anyone with low end hardware is missing out on the "intended" experience because they can't turn everything to 11. Should they be yelling bloody murder?

 

Yes they are and no they shouldn't. They should just able to buy a better card from ANY vendor and turn up/max ALL the settings.

 

Why is it so hard to comprehend that none of the games were broken because of GameWorks, but because of rushed releases that were publisher's fault. Give me 1 example of a game performing worse on AMD for reasons other than tessellation and driver overhead.

 

I am in no way talking about performance here. I made sure i never mentioned the word performance, read my reaction again. I am talking about EXPERIENCE, if you just dropped $2000+ on a new PC with your shiny AMD card and you get bad performance in games like this and witcher because you turned on all the settings and people tell you to turn stuff off, you're gonna ask yourself why you spend $2000+ just to still turn stuff off.

 

I don't care what Nvidia does, they can throw in any effect they want, i'll welcome it with open arms and much cheering. As long as it works on ALL cards and not only theirs, don't give me crap that it does, because there is stuff grayed out when you have AMD cards.

 

If I was a developer and nvidia offered to give my game some additional effects for free without me having to do any work of course I would say yes

It doesn't take away anything, it only ads

if you're concerned about people buying nvidia cards over amd just for some visual effects youre very wrong

 

You are totally and completely wrong here. Nvidia PAYS developers to use gameworks, if not then the developers are crazy. So in a way they are just selling out to Nvidia, and this does take something away, from AMD users who can't turn that stuff on.

 

And YOU are very wrong about people buying Nvidia cards because of this. Read some reactions in this topic, people here have actually said they have. Hell I HAVE done that, but that was for hybrid physx which nvidia has since blocked. But most importantly, IT'S THE WHOLE FRIGGIN POINT OF GAMEWORKS!

 

Next, proprietary settings have existed since the beginning of gaming, get the fuck over it already people.

 

I had no idea that pong had any settings. Thanks for clearing that up! Games have actually existed since long before you were born, not just since you started playing. Proprietary settings have only existed since the Voodoo 1 card was released by 3DFX in 1996. It was proprietary but they were the first so i don't really count this, but it did start this crap. Except it was simple in those days. Games were either Glide3D, Direct3D or OpenGL. THATS IT! You got all 3 with 3DFX cards and only D3D and OpenGL with ATI/Nvidia. That's all you had to remember. Even then ALL the effects were the same and nothing was locked to 1 vendor. That all started when Ageia released their PhysX card and Nvidia bought them. That was in 2008, holy crap thats only 7 years ago! So how old are you again?

[Guest Generallee]

i'm wondering how hairworks could work in a game like this

 

hahahahahaha

[Humbug]

HairWorks in The Witcher 3 proves his point though, nobody with the right mind uses it, I didn't use it with my GTX 970 cause it dropped FPS dramatically and I'm not using it with my 290X now as well despite getting more FPS average.

It's over-tessellated by default. Try limiting the tesselation to 8x or 16x via catalyst control panel.

[Khvarrioiren]

Seeing how Bethesda can't animate let alone model to save their lives, the most likely Gameworks effects are going to be Advanced PhysX and FleX for VATS giblets alongside the basic graphics settings like HBAO+.

[Asulenovcer]

It's a disgusting game. Overrated....

[Jamdude]

It's a disgusting game. Overrated....

A disgusting and overrated game? Please explain...

[Morgan MLGman]

It's over-tessellated by default. Try limiting the tesselation to 8x or 16x via catalyst control panel.

It's not even looking well, I do not want it on ^^ But thanks for the tip. I set the tesselation to "AMD Optimized" in CCP, I assummed that it's the best.

[jaggysnake57]

A disgusting and overrated game? Please explain...

 

 

please dont feed the trolls

[don_svetlio]

One thing I really like is how when AMD released Tress FX and it ran like shit on Nvidia cards, it was getting compared to cancer with people raving on about how it was anti-competitive and how AMD should burn for it but as soon as Nvidia does the exact same thing suddenly 3/4 of the people are fine with it. Go figure

[Enderman]

You are totally and completely wrong here. Nvidia PAYS developers to use gameworks, if not then the developers are crazy. So in a way they are just selling out to Nvidia, and this does take something away, from AMD users who can't turn that stuff on.

 

And YOU are very wrong about people buying Nvidia cards because of this. Read some reactions in this topic, people here have actually said they have. Hell I HAVE done that, but that was for hybrid physx which nvidia has since blocked. But most importantly, IT'S THE WHOLE FRIGGIN POINT OF GAMEWORKS!

No, I'm pretty sure nvidia just offers to help them implement it for free

Instead of not doing anything to improve the gaming experience at least they are making progress in the industry without forcing developers to do thousands of hours of extra work

Unlike AMD who pretty much does nothing

 

This comes down again to "do you want everyone to have the same and equal experience?" Do you want PC gaming to become console gaming? Where everyone has exactly the same?

[don_svetlio]

No, I'm pretty sure nvidia just offers to help them implement it for free

Instead of not doing anything to improve the gaming experience at least they are making progress in the industry without forcing developers to do thousands of hours of extra work

Unlike AMD who pretty much does nothing

 

This comes down again to "do you want everyone to have the same and equal experience?" Do you want PC gaming to become console gaming? Where everyone has exactly the same?

Putting it like that consoles are suddenly becoming a more enticing offer.

[Monarch]

I am in no way talking about performance here. I made sure i never mentioned the word performance, read my reaction again. I am talking about EXPERIENCE, if you just dropped $2000+ on a new PC with your shiny AMD card and you get bad performance in games like this and witcher because you turned on all the settings and people tell you to turn stuff off, you're gonna ask yourself why you spend $2000+ just to still turn stuff off.

 

I don't care what Nvidia does, they can throw in any effect they want, i'll welcome it with open arms and much cheering. As long as it works on ALL cards and not only theirs, don't give me crap that it does, because there is stuff grayed out when you have AMD cards.

 

Yes you are talking about performance. You're talking about experience due to bad performance. GW effects are effects Nvidia provides to their customers by partnering with developers and publishers. Those effects are not taken away from you if you have an AMD GPU, they're given to Nvidia users. In fact, some of them work on AMD with no problem, some perform worse because they're based around strenghts Nvidia GPUs have, like tessellation, as we know their tessellation performance is superior, and some effects simply don't work because they require driver support. 

[Humbug]

Hmm it seems that some Nvidia users think that gameworks benefits them. Hmmm.... From what I've seen they hurt performance badly on Nvidia cards too compared to game dev created effects. Well; to each his own...

I think if these special effects are going to be closed source then the game devs are the best people to create them in a manner which benefits the userbase, and they have no compulsion to make it stupidly heavy or encourage GPU upgrades or vendor differentiation. No conflict of interest...

Do you want PC gaming to become console gaming? Where everyone has exactly the same?

No we want PC gaming to remain as competition between vendors within industry standards. Where vendors who are good enough are allowed to compete. Intel dominates AMD in x86 because they built better tech. Graphics competition happens with players competing while maintaining compatibility to industry standard APIs such as directX, openGL, Vulkan, direct compute, openCL etc... These frameworks ensure competition can thrive while maintaining interoperability. Moving away from that towards vendor lock in is the anti-thesis of what PC is about.

[Humbug]

some perform worse because they're based around strenghts Nvidia GPUs have, like tessellation, as we know their tessellation performance is superior

Which would be ok if the overtesselation was creating a visible userbenefit rather than trying to artificially highlight differences between GPU architectures like a synthetic benchmark.

[Enderman]

No we want PC gaming to remain as competition between vendors within industry standards. Where vendors who are good enough are allowed to compete. Intel dominates AMD in x86 because they built better tech. Graphics competition happens with players competing while maintaining compatibility to industry standard APIs such as directX, openGL, Vulkan, direct compute, openCL etc... These frameworks ensure competition can thrive while maintaining interoperability. Moving away from that towards vendor lock in is the anti-thesis of what PC is about.

Stop being so upset

PhysX has existed for decades and AMD hasn't failed because of it

[don_svetlio]

Stop being so upset

PhysX has existed for decades and AMD hasn't failed because of it

He's right though, how would you feel if suddenly you could play games or get the full experience only based on your GPU? Say, you could only get the intended Tomb Raider experience with AMD and the intended Fallout 4 experience with Nvidia? You'd essentially be choosing your gaming future based on the GPU's color....

[xAcid9]

Gameworks + Bethesda. Double broken.

 

[Monarch]

Which would be ok if the overtesselation was creating a visible userbenefit rather than trying to artificially highlight differences between GPU architectures like a synthetic benchmark.

 

It wouldn't be ok because people would still complain about it performing worse on AMD hardware. Yes, I think they overtessellated the hair in W3, and it caused pretty big impact on Nvidia GPUs as well. But Witcher 3 got a patch which included the option to reduce tessellation to 16x I believe, and the game is now playable even on my 970. I don't know if it's Nvidia's fault that it was previously locked to x32, or it was up to devs, but you can set it now to "low".

[Elapo]

 

 

According to what we’re being told Fallout 4 will be a much closer affair to GTA V, a fairly well optimized title across the board with collaborative efforts from both Nvidia and AMD. 

 

/thread

 

If they both helped with optimization, it'll be fine.

 

Also, you can turn it off. I still don't see the issue.

[Enderman]

He's right though, how would you feel if suddenly you could play games or get the full experience only based on your GPU? Say, you could only get the intended Tomb Raider experience with AMD and the intended Fallout 4 experience with Nvidia? You'd essentially be choosing your gaming future based on the GPU's color....

Now you know how pretty much everyone who cant play at ultra feels like