[Updated 11/4/15] Fallout 4 to NOT feature Nvidia Gameworks, but Nvidia is still working with Bethesda on the game.

[PlayStation 2]

Do even half the replies in this thread make any sense? 

Not really. 

This thread was probably here to start a flame war.

[Humbug]

I want NVidia to make their code optimized, not overtessellate, not be APEX based, and be completely open to the developer, that can optimize the code for both NVidia and AMD (with collaboration with AMD). You know just like TressFX.

And proper optimization is for the benefit of Nvidia users as much as AMD users. It's not just a vs thing which people want to turn it into.

[Monarch]

HaHa, KeK.

Guess this bitch hasn't heard of the R9 285/380. You know, a card that DOES match the 960 in every area, including tessellation.

 

Most people have other cards. And if you look at benchmarks, all other cards perform significantly worse with tessellation than Nvidia equivalents. 290X for example, performs as a GTX 660. Thanks for the insult.

[PlayStation 2]

Most people have other cards. And when people look at benchmarks, they see all other cards performing significantly worse with tessellation than Nvidia equivalents. 290X for example, performs as a GTX 660. Thanks for the insult.

ok, i didn't mean to insult you, just been a long monday atm

but in all honesty, while nvidia's cards do handle tessellation better, it's normally only because amd failed to make decent tessellation chips

[don_svetlio]

Most people have other cards. And if you look at benchmarks, all other cards perform significantly worse with tessellation than Nvidia equivalents. 290X for example, performs as a GTX 660. Thanks for the insult.

Actually - 290X has quite a bit better Tess than GCN 1.0 cards.

[don_svetlio]

ok, i didn't mean to insult you, just been a long monday atm

but in all honesty, while nvidia's cards do handle tessellation better, it's normally only because amd failed to make decent tessellation chips

Fun fact - Tress FX is also based on Tess but runs better on AMD. It's the WAY it's done, not HOW it's done.

[Notional]

Currently, the people against GW here are 1 in 4. Back then, the people against Tress FX were 3 in 4. Like I said, it's not the same reaction.

 

It's almost like everyone who is for GameWorks is against TressFX. Funny that.

 

 

 

I've done some googling, and have a hard time finding out what the Low/high preset does. HardOCP does state it might include tessellation too, so I will assume it does. That is very nice.

 

Some Nvidia users think that gameworks and the way it's meant to be played programs benefit them as Nvidia users. If they really think these features and effects are being applied in an efficient manner then ok, to each his own... But IMO the cold reality is that AMD gaming evolved titles consistently work better on Nvidia GPUs than Nvidia's own TWIMTBP games.

 

Indeed that is the very point I've made for quite a while. Some NVidia users are way too emotionally invested into their graphics card and the eco system they are buying into.

 

So basically you want Nvidia to do the same things that AMD is doing. 

 

Now, what exactly would incentivize Nvidia to do that considering they're not the ones facing bankruptcy due to lousy business practices/mismanagement. 

 

Nvidia shouldn't be spending its money to try and optimize code for its competition. 

 

Yes that is what I want.

 

Nothing, and that is the problem. Consumers can put pressure on NVidia and developers using this crap, by voting with their wallet and letting their opinions be heard. If consumers can't be bothered, they will get whatever the companies dictates, even if that is at the cost of the consumer.

 

They should be spending money on optimizing for their own users (which they don't seem to), and they should open up the code so the developer can optimize for both vendors, and let AMD optimize for their own cards.

[Elapo]

Fun fact - Tress FX is also based on Tess but runs better on AMD. It's the WAY it's done, not HOW it's done.

Lying to support your case eh? What is this, politics?

TressFX uses DirectCompute, which is why Nvidia cards have a harder time with it. Hairworks uses tesselation, which is harder for AMD cards.

How weird, every vendor ties their tech into their hardware's strong points.

One thing's for sure: both look like shit outside of demo videos anyway, and both are a waste of time to implement

/thread.

It's almost like everyone who is for GameWorks is against TressFX. Funny that.

I'm against TressFX and for GW.

I think Hairworks stinks at least as hard as TressFX does though.

[i_build_nanosuits]

LOL 13 pages of butthurt AMD fanboys...yeah, gameworks is trash it add nothing to the game...ESPECIALY when you CAN'T use it!!

[don_svetlio]

Lying to support your case eh? What is this, politics?

TressFX uses DirectCompute, which is why Nvidia cards have a harder time with it. Hairworks uses tesselation, which is harder for AMD cards.

How weird, every vendor ties their tech into their hardware's strong points.

One thing's for sure: both look like shit outside of demo videos anyway, and both are a waste of time to implement

/thread.

I was reading about it today - some people were claiming it was Tess. I guess I was mislead.

[App4that]

The butthurt is real. 

 

And no, even blind followers will switch to AMD if Nvidia's offerings were truly bad. 

 

LOL 13 pages of butthurt AMD fanboys...yeah, gameworks is trash it add nothing to the game...ESPECIALY when you CAN'T use it!!

So you bought a GPU for this reason? For some sense of superiority? Here I thought we bought them based off performance.

 

Thanks for cheering me up over this, since now I know why it was done.

[don_svetlio]

LOL 13 pages of butthurt AMD fanboys...yeah, gameworks is trash it add nothing to the game...ESPECIALY when you CAN'T use it!!

[i_build_nanosuits]

snip!

 

snip!

But but butt...am i RIGHT or what?! huh :huh: 14 pages of this now...

[Notional]

I'm against TressFX and for GW.

I think Hairworks stinks at least as hard as TressFX does though.

 

Why are you against TressFX? Because the source is open to the dev, and they can collaborate with NVidia, they managed to optimize the NVidia drivers and the game enough for TressFX to run equally well on NVidia as AMD. At that point it's just a standard effect like any other for the dev and the end user. Like I stated, if GameWorks performed like that, there should not be an issue.

 

LOL 13 pages of butthurt AMD fanboys...yeah, gameworks is trash it add nothing to the game...ESPECIALY when you CAN'T use it!!

 

Non APEX GameWorks effects uses DX11 tessellation, so you are factually incorrect. AMD can indeed run them. The "fanboy" accusation seems more like projection. How very sad.

[App4that]

But but butt...am i RIGHT or what?! huh :huh: 14 pages of this now...

I was on the fence over a second 290 or sell the one I have and get a 980. After 14 pages of a graphics setting being what gets Nvidea owners excite, I'm only on the fence on whether to get a 290x or 390. You have done me a great service and I look forward to seeing what crossfire can do in Fallout 4.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Non APEX GameWorks effects uses DX11 tessellation, so you are factually incorrect. AMD can indeed run them. The "fanboy" accusation seems more like projection. How very sad.

oh okay...now what...AMD can run gameworks now...this is your best argument?

I was on the fence over a second 290 or sell the one I have and get a 980. After 14 pages of a graphics setting being what gets Nvidea owners excite, I'm only on the fence on whether to get a 290x or 390. You have done me a great service and I look forward to seeing what crossfire can do in Fallout 4.

enjoy your 780W from the wall machine son

[raphidy]

I though that the high heavens created by lord gaben, PCmasterace, there would be no war. I guess it's just like Sony vs Microsoft, inside, we are all peasants. I really don't care about eye candy personally, it runs good with alright let it on. If not, turn it off. I actually have a problem if either company goes GPU exclusive like consoles do. 

[Notional]

oh okay...now what...AMD can run gameworks now...this is your best argument?

enjoy your 780W from the wall machine son

 

You made a factually incorrect comment, that I corrected. It was not an argument.

[Elapo]

Why are you against TressFX? Because the source is open to the dev, and they can collaborate with NVidia, they managed to optimize the NVidia drivers and the game enough for TressFX to run equally well on NVidia as AMD. At that point it's just a standard effect like any other for the dev and the end user. Like I stated, if GameWorks performed like that, there should not be an issue.

Let's start using the correct names though, TressFX is only comparable to Hairworks, not gameworks as a whole

Let me first correct you now: I said I hated both TressFX and Hairworks.

Now, I'm against TressFX and Hairworks because IT SUCKS.

Neither solution is actually good-looking, nor does either of them justify the resource cost. I still find it baffling that there are artists that willingly include it. It's not so much the looks - those are similar to the old, polygonal hair - it's the animations that are just plain not realistic, ever, unless you're making a game about those puppets with spaghetti hair. Because that's what Hairworks/TressFX looks like - Spaghetti.

It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad. Sure, the demo videos look great, and it's just "meh" during gameplay. The worst part are the cutscenes. It's like Cthulu himself is sitting on the head of the character, waving his tentacles while the character is standing still. And I didn't even get to clipping yet.

[i_build_nanosuits]

TressFX is only comparable to Hairworks, not gameworks as a whole

I'm against TressFX and Hairworks because IT SUCKS.

unless you're making a game about those puppets with spaghetti hair. Because that's what Hairworks/TressFX looks like - Spaghetti.

so true lol that made me laugh..spaghetti hair i have to agree i don't like airworks very much so far either...on the other hand though the lightshafts, reactive smoke clouds and interactive paper/debris in Batman the arkham knight...that looks good, if only i was able to drive them at more than 30FPS it would be damn nice hehe

[don_svetlio]

Let's start using the correct names though, TressFX is only comparable to Hairworks, not gameworks as a whole

Let me first correct you now: I said I hated both TressFX and Hairworks.

Now, I'm against TressFX and Hairworks because IT SUCKS.

Neither solution is actually good-looking, nor does either of them justify the resource cost. I still find it baffling that there are artists that willingly include it. It's not so much the looks - those are similar to the old, polygonal hair - it's the animations that are just plain not realistic, ever, unless you're making a game about those puppets with spaghetti hair. Because that's what Hairworks/TressFX looks like - Spaghetti.

It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad. Sure, the demo videos look great, and it's just "meh" during gameplay. The worst part are the cutscenes. It's like Cthulu himself is sitting on the head of the character, waving his tentacles while the character is standing still. And I didn't even get to clipping yet.

Tress FX does not impact performance nearly as much though, I can run it fine even with a 6870/GTX 570.

[Helly]

Those effects are not taken away from you if you have an AMD GPU, they're given to Nvidia users.

 

In fact, some of them work on AMD with no problem, some perform worse because they're based around strenghts Nvidia GPUs have, like tessellation, as we know their tessellation performance is superior, and some effects simply don't work because they require driver support. 

 

So first they aren't taken away and then some are.... so which one is it? Make up your mind please....

 

those effects ARE NOT there when you turn them off, SO YOU ARE MISSING THEM. That means the SAME as TAKING THEM AWAY. They also don't require drivers support. They require better coding so they work on all cards. That is something Nvidia won't do.....

 

 

No, I'm pretty sure nvidia just offers to help them implement it for free

 

No they don't, Nvidia pays them, after all the crap Nvidia has gotten for gameworks do you really think any developer in their right mind puts this stuff in just because Nvidia asks? No way in hell that is happening. Nvidia pays them A LOT of money to put this crap in.

 

 

Instead of not doing anything to improve the gaming experience at least they are making progress in the industry without forcing developers to do thousands of hours of extra work

Unlike AMD who pretty much does nothing

 

Yeah Mantle, Freesync, TressFX, all free for everyone to use has done absolutely nothing for the industry. Mantle got the ball rolling on low-level API's, TressFX does what hairworks does only a shit-ton better because it works perfect on all platforms. AMD even optimized it for Nvidia cards or helped at least. THAT IT PROGESS, not locking everything down to your own crap. PhysX should have been an insane leap forward for physics in games, but Nvidia locked it down and now barely any game uses it and we're still playing with physics from 11 years ago. Yay progress, thanks Nvidia!

Locking stuff down is NEVER progress!

[cesrai]

I want NVidia to make their code optimized, not overtessellate, not be APEX based, and be completely open to the developer, that can optimize the code for both NVidia and AMD (with collaboration with AMD). You know just like TressFX.

 

Freesync is the driver implementation that uses Adaptive Sync. Freesync has no consequence for anyone, including NVidia and it's customers. So what is your point?

NVidia could make a driver implementation, and even call it Gsync, that uses Adaptive Sync.

Well then keep dreaming cause that ain't going to happen.

[cesrai]

Tress FX does not impact performance nearly as much though, I can run it fine even with a 6870/GTX 570.

What is your FPS when Tress FX is off ??? and when it's on ?

I can run it fine on my 750Ti but it has am impact.

[don_svetlio]

What is your FPS when Tress FX is off ??? and when it's on ?

I can run it fine on my 750Ti but it has am impact.

60 with

60 without

280 is more than enough to run.