Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Rybo]

8 hours ago, Snadzies said:

Holy crap.

I haven't been to the range or shopped for ammo since the start of 2020 so the thought of 9mm ammo going for 50 cents a round and being thought of as a deal at that price is mind boggling.

Indeed.  I either need to get back into pressing my own ammo (I have done it in the past, but it's time consuming and the resulting ammo wasn't amazing) or I just need to buy buckets of the stuff the next time prices go down.  I used to buy a thousand rounds of each caliber I have, but that dried up ages ago.  

[Guest]

I was lucky... 1k rounds of AK ammo was like $250~ early in the year & late last year. It went down to $230, I bought it & then modern events occurred haha.

 

Lucky lucky.

 

(Side note, there are 69 followers to the thread now)

[atxcyclist]

Loaded twenty copper-plated .41 Mag yesterday. I need another bullet seating plug as the one I’ve got goobers the projectiles slightly. 
 

if this load turns out well I’ll load a bunch more, I always forget how easy it is to load straight pistol cartridges with a carbide sizing die, with new brass anyway.

[HM-2]

9 hours ago, LordVetinari said:

The UK is more restrictive than the US, but it's not as bad as some commentators on YouTube would have you believe. The difference basically boils down to two fundamental points: 1) you cannot own a firearm for self defense and 2) you cannot hunt on public land (unless you are employed to do so, which is restricted to a handful of government agencies).

 

In the UK you need a licence to hold a firearm, although there is no hunters ed or any other test for it other than a chat with the police (and a criminal records check) and a note from your Dr saying that as far as they know your not crazy.

 

Licences come in three types:

 

Section 1: rifled firearm, semi automatic rifles up to .22, a smooth bore firearm with a barrel length less than 24” (oh yeah, when it comes to shooting the UK still uses yards, feet and inches), a smooth bore firearm with a capacity greater than 3 and air rifles greater than 12ft/lbs.

 

Section 2: smooth bore firearm with barrel more than 24” and a capacity of 3 or less (What I have)

 

Section 5: handguns (restricted to two shot), other semi automatics. (These are insanely hard to get)

 

The requirements for each are slightly different. For a section 2 you just need to say you want one and show you have safe storage, generally a safe or cabinet but not always.

 

For section 1 you need to state 'good reason' for owning and show you have somewhere to use it, plus the safe storage. The 'good reason' is not as bad as it sounds, hunting, joining a club/range, pest control, hunting trip abroad etc etc is about as far as that goes. Although you do need to show good reason for each calibre. The finding somewhere to use it is a pain for hunting, you need permission from a landowner to do so. Section 5 handguns are also similar, but the only good reason is 'humane  dispatch' and unless you are a vet or game keeper, paid professional hunter then you can pretty much forget it. Ammunition for section 1 is also limited, but as you pretty much get to chose that limit within reason that's not a huge deal and only applicable to full rounds so reloaders are pretty much free to stockpile. License are renewed every 5 years, although there is currently a push to up that to 10.

 

All that will have second amendment afficinadios nashing their teeth, but don't forget we in the UK have never had anything like the 2nd amendment to lose so we are starting from very different points.

 

But some bonuses:

 

1) No wait times. Once you have a license for something you can buy it.

2) expanding ammunition, night and thermal vision, silencers/moderators are all freely available

3) hunting on private land means that once you have it the likelyhood of being disturbed by another hunter and/or member of the public pretty much nil.

 

Pretty much if you want it you can have it. .457 rigby for that trip to SA - sure. 22 semi automatic for targets or popping rabbits - sure. In practice the system is not as restrictive as it seems.

 

The only thing that sticks in my craw is that I can relatively easily get hold of a .50 rifle but a 9mm pistol - that's a hard no.

Not much to add here other than to point out that this is one of the must comprehensive an eloquent summaries of UK firearm law I've ever seen on an internet forum. For all the talk of the UK being incredibly restrictive it's actually really rather sensible for most reasonable uses.

 

I've got a few friends with Section 1 licences including one who shoots F-Class. He changes calibre fairly regularly and never seems to have an issue getting new approvals even as he's progressed from 7mm-08 through 7mm WSM...and now I think he's on some strange 338 Laupa wildcat.

[Guest]

Has anyone played Receiver 2?
It looks like a handgun manipulation CCW game to appeal to the gamer that's into guns.

Curious to your thoughts on it.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1129310/Receiver_2/

[LordVetinari]

13 hours ago, HM-2 said:

Not much to add here other than to point out that this is one of the must comprehensive an eloquent summaries of UK firearm law I've ever seen on an internet forum. For all the talk of the UK being incredibly restrictive it's actually really rather sensible for most reasonable uses.

 

I've got a few friends with Section 1 licences including one who shoots F-Class. He changes calibre fairly regularly and never seems to have an issue getting new approvals even as he's progressed from 7mm-08 through 7mm WSM...and now I think he's on some strange 338 Laupa wildcat.

Thanks - it always slightly bugs me watching youtube etc when the old 'guns are banned in the UK' spiel rolls out. Generally the system works well for the country, although I would certainly welcome a hunters-ed type system if we were reciprocally allowed to hunt on public land. 

 

The UK system is far from perfect - there are many inconsistencies and gripes, not least the initial grant of a licence being a complete postcode (zip-code) lottery. Licenses are (technically) issued by the chief of police of your local police department and each one has their own quirks and timescales. Initial grant of a license can be anywhere between two weeks and 8 months just depending on where you live. Some will grant pistols for 'humane dispatch' at the merest suggestion its a good reason, others you have as much chance as walking on the moon ("a short barrel .410 will do you nicely sir").  

 

Although firearms transactions are recorded by the police their records are... not great. On my last renewal they had me owning guns I had sold ages ago. On one occasion a police department lost all their records and just asked all cert holders to write in with what they had....  

 

I am married to an American and regularly visit - I have also held a NH hunting licence (Generally small game as we visit over Christmas after deer season) for a few years now so have a generally ok handle on the US way of things as well. 

 

Quite a few very pleasant hunting trips after squirrel and rabbit on boxing day have been had. (great way to clear the head and something I look forward to every year, although maybe not this year....)  

 

Anyway - one of the other differences is that UK wildlife is pretty 'tame' by comparison to the US. No cougars (of the 4 legged kind), bear, mountain lion etc etc. that would ruin your day. Although boar are becoming more populous and they will mess you up.  

 

Another thing I have noticed is pricing on the used market for shotguns in the UK is more attractively priced, classic double barrels (sxs and o/u) are 10 to a penny here. A well used 12 gauge can be picked up for £50 pretty much anywhere and I haven't paid more that £300 ($400) for any of the guns in my current possession.

 

I generally visit Kittery Trading Post on my trips and notice that similar used double barrels attract quite a premium - guns that I wouldn't pay more than £100 for over here were on sale for $250+. Now I know KTP is a little touristy, but the price difference really stood out. Is that generally representative across the US? 

[Jito463]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:33 AM, LordVetinari said:

The UK is more restrictive than the US, but it's not as bad as some commentators on YouTube would have you believe.

I don't know, what you describe sounds pretty awful to me.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

I don't know, what you describe sounds pretty awful to me.

Tbh I thought it was worse than they described. I was told in the past the only gun you could get was like a single shot or double barrel shotgun IF you lived in the country AND owned a farm AND you were approved. 

 

Much less restrictive though it seems 

[LordVetinari]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

Tbh I thought it was worse than they described. I was told in the past the only gun you could get was like a single shot or double barrel shotgun IF you lived in the country AND owned a farm AND you were approved. 

 

Much less restrictive though it seems 

I live down in the more rural south west, and to quote Hot Fuzz - everyone and their mother is packing heat 'round 'ere. I have owned multiple semi auto's and pump action shotguns in the past, never bothered to get a FAC (section 1) just because when I have gone hunting that required a rifle I can just borrow one. There is also a really fun oddity where there is no minimum age to get a licence, but the minimum age to own a firearm is 18 (the same age we allow people to buy alcohol - seems sensible). So you can (and do) end up in a situation where an 8 year old is licenced to use but not to own. 

 

As I said at the outset - its two very different countries with two very different starting points for gun ownership. Its like comparing apples and oranges.   

[Guest]

 

3 hours ago, LordVetinari said:

So you can (and do) end up in a situation where an 8 year old is licenced to use but not to own. 

I think minimum age to shoot is like 8 in the US. 14 to own & 18 to buy. 21 some states for some guns, 21 in some states for all iirc. 

3 hours ago, LordVetinari said:

As I said at the outset - its two very different countries with two very different starting points for gun ownership. Its like comparing apples and oranges.   

Yeah. Most of Europe afaik are pretty restrictive to gun ownership. YouTube iraqveteran8888 had a blurred face guest from Germany say that it’s taboo & people will more or less outcast you if you mention gun ownership or use. 

My friend in the USA is 100% Italian. I invited him to play airsoft one time in middle school. 6~8 years later his mom still thought I was a crazed gunman. 

[LordVetinari]

49 minutes ago, fpo said:

 

I think minimum age to shoot is like 8 in the US. 14 to own & 18 to buy. 21 some states for some guns, 21 in some states for all iirc. 

Yeah. Most of Europe afaik are pretty restrictive to gun ownership. YouTube iraqveteran8888 had a blurred face guest from Germany say that it’s taboo & people will more or less outcast you if you mention gun ownership or use. 

My friend in the USA is 100% Italian. I invited him to play airsoft one time in middle school. 6~8 years later his mom still thought I was a crazed gunman. 

Yeah the UK is surprisingly relaxed compared to mainland Europe. People owning guns over here is kinda met with a shrug and maybe a 'oh that's cool, what you got?' My local clay ground does 'young gun' days and they will do shoots with kids like 7+, it's always well attended.

 

In more urban areas you get more of a look when you mention it and every year around August (the start of our traditional shooting season) some news paper generally runs a piece about the number of gun owners trying to paint us as loonies one step off shooting up a mall and how 8 year olds are running around with pump action shotguns. Everyone just shrugs and gets on with it.

 

You could probably trace government intervention in the UK guntrade to 1637  (that's not a typo) when the london proof house was setup. The main idea was apparently to stop unsafe firearms being made, but it also allowed the government to keep a tight grip on the number of firearms in circulation. Most of the restrictions are more recent from about 1964/67ish. 

 

The UK guntrade up to that point is actually super interesting as lots of craftsman congregated around the proof houses and all did work for one another. If you owned a shop/general store and wanted to sell guns you could either enter a deal with a recognised name or find a craftsman to make one 'in the white' and simply add your own name. Depending on how competent you were you could just get the plain action, with or without stock and engrave, fit or make those yourself. All the craftsman shared parts and blanks so there are tons of very very similar guns with different names. Most patents had expired by this point so they were all ripping each other off left right and centre.

 

 It was basically like the current Chinese technology market.

 

[HM-2]

On 8/24/2020 at 11:48 AM, LordVetinari said:

Although firearms transactions are recorded by the police their records are... not great. On my last renewal they had me owning guns I had sold ages ago. On one occasion a police department lost all their records and just asked all cert holders to write in with what they had....  

That doesn't really surprise me at all. Record keeping has never been the strong suit of any of the UK police forces I've worked with in the past...

 

On 8/25/2020 at 2:24 PM, Jito463 said:

I don't know, what you describe sounds pretty awful to me.

It's a totally different culture from the US, no question about it. But for things like shotguns in particular, it's actually exceptionally easy and usually very quick. All you normally need to do is demonstrate you have safe storage and pass a criminal record check, and these days they've basically stopped doing home visits for checking storage and will go on a half-decent photo. Though as @LordVetinari says, it's rather dependent on your local police force.

 

Very few British shooters I know are bothered with the restrictions. Aside from a couple nobody is particularly interested in owning semi-automatic centerfire rifles. A few who are old enough to have owned and shot pistols before the ban came in post-Dunblane lament that, but again they're definitely a minority. I personally find it quite odd how many shooters I know with full licenses (rather than shotgun licenses) who are interested in really long-distance stuff (like F-class and benchrest) despite the relatively small number of places you can actually shoot 1000+ yards in the UK. I know people who literally drive from Gloucestershire to Bisley (5 hour round trip) three times a week (or sometimes even overnight from Friday to Sunday) so they can shoot long-range.

 

On 8/25/2020 at 5:41 PM, LordVetinari said:

I live down in the more rural south west, and to quote Hot Fuzz - everyone and their mother is packing heat 'round 'ere.

You're probably fairly local to me then. We're also SW and rural, and shooting is a very popular sport especially at my work. I think of the 50-60 people in our office, maybe 15 are regular shooters and a few others do intermittently (mostly cos they're ex-forces or current reservists).

[Rybo]

Finally brought the progressive press back out after nearly a year of avoiding using it.  I just kept making bad rounds, and the test cycle (make round - fire round) just took too long for me to bother with it.  With the ammo shortages though, it was time.  I made a little over 50 test rounds and did correct some issues I was aware of.  Let's hope that makes for good ammo; I'm going to go to the range today if it's open.  

 

[XGoodGuyFitz]

Just got a magpul ctr for my airsoft gun. It was 40$. Is that a good deal?

[Guest]

13 hours ago, xXFitzXx said:

Just got a magpul ctr for my airsoft gun. It was 40$. Is that a good deal?

Magpul’s website says $30~$60 so yeah. 

[XGoodGuyFitz]

ok thank you. my school mac has that blocked so i couldnt check lol

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, xXFitzXx said:

ok thank you. my school mac has that blocked so i couldnt check lol

 

My school used to block evike but airsoft GI and airsoft megastore I could still visit. 

I think a few of my friends found unblocked porn sites haha. 

 

So, this past weekend I learned how to use PVS 14s, PEQ 15, and tactical lights. Shot some simunitions (simunitions are trash.) 

real night vision equipment is sooo badass. I learned to effectively fight in the night in a class designed for military & law enforcement. 

 

Who wants to touch me? Haha

 

PS Tippmann (paintball company) makes an airsoft gun that uses compressed air or CO2 to operate & it has more recoil than simunitions. So for discount AR15 training, it’s worth it. 

[Real_PhillBert]

7 minutes ago, fpo said:

So, this past weekend I learned how to use PVS 14s, PEQ 15, and tactical lights. Shot some simunitions (simunitions are trash.) 

real night vision equipment is sooo badass. I learned to effectively fight in the night in a class designed for military & law enforcement. 

 

Who wants to touch me? Haha

 

PS Tippmann (paintball company) makes an airsoft gun that uses compressed air or CO2 to operate & it has more recoil than simunitions. So for discount AR15 training, it’s worth it. 

Very nice! 

 

Where did you do take a class from?

 

I do a fair amount (couple times a year) of training under NVGs. RNVGs and DTNVGs, but I dont own either one, I have a  buddy who is deep into the NVG game, I've been hustling money away for a while to pick up a set of WP DTNVGs.

 

Night vision is about as close to a super power as you are going to get.

[XGoodGuyFitz]

14 minutes ago, fpo said:

My school used to block evike but airsoft GI and airsoft megastore I could still visit. 

I think a few of my friends found unblocked porn sites haha. 

Oof they both blocked

[Guest]

On 8/31/2020 at 10:40 AM, Real_PhillBert said:

Very nice! 

 

Where did you do take a class from?

Theres this guy that’s in the military (local to my area so I don’t want to say for privacy) and he trains military & law enforcement & has badass civilian training classes. Typically of the same content. 

We did it on an airsoft field. All airsoft guns so it was MUCH cheaper & easier access. Wasn’t about the guns as much as the equipment. 

 

Quote

I do a fair amount (couple times a year) of training under NVGs. RNVGs and DTNVGs, but I dont own either one, I have a  buddy who is deep into the NVG game, I've been hustling money away for a while to pick up a set of WP DTNVGs.

2 nights of NVG & I know I want to spend 5 grand on it haha. I’m going to sell some stuff I don’t need to afford it haha. 

Quote

Night vision is about as close to a super power as you are going to get.

Definitely. 

You can see so much stuff. 

We used monocles so the non-shooting eye can see in black & the shooting eye can see with the tactical light as well as look through the optic. 

 

Theres a cool technique where if you look through the optic, and it’s pitch black your right eye only sees the optic. Then it more or less hallucinates into your left eye & you can aim without the laser to remain undetected. 

On 8/31/2020 at 10:45 AM, xXFitzXx said:

Oof they both blocked

Airsplat? 

Shorty airsoft USA? 

Action village? (More paintball)

brill armoury (basically just internal upgrades but still)

[Guest]

New information on Non-Lethal stuff:

The Umarex T4E .43 caliber CO2 pistols.... My colleague let another test shoot him with a rubber bullet. It hit him in the leg & he was bleeding with a low CO2 cartridge. If we have a picture, I'll ask an admin if I can share it depending on how graphic it is.

They also make metal projectiles which we may acquire & sell some too.

 

Almost finished with the overly complex CCW license application so I bought some spare mags on eBay for my PPS M2. A 2 pack of 7 rds mags are like 60~ bucks. If they don't give me a license soon however, I'm moving to another state. Ridiculous rules... Might as well throw my AK in my car. More convenient to carry an AR than acquire a pistol. (I won't actually sport around a rifle any time I drive around.)

[Statik]

11 hours ago, fpo said:

New information on Non-Lethal stuff:

The Umarex T4E .43 caliber CO2 pistols.... My colleague let another test shoot him with a rubber bullet. It hit him in the leg & he was bleeding with a low CO2 cartridge. If we have a picture, I'll ask an admin if I can share it depending on how graphic it is.

They also make metal projectiles which we may acquire & sell some too.

Interesting, but I've seen paintballs/airsoft make people bleed too, so not too surprising.

 

11 hours ago, fpo said:

 

Almost finished with the overly complex CCW license application so I bought some spare mags on eBay for my PPS M2. A 2 pack of 7 rds mags are like 60~ bucks. If they don't give me a license soon however, I'm moving to another state. Ridiculous rules... Might as well throw my AK in my car. More convenient to carry an AR than acquire a pistol. (I won't actually sport around a rifle any time I drive around.)

Define overly complex?

 

As far as I'm concerned the process in order to allow someone to carry any weapon, especially a concealed firearm should be a complex process.

[Jito463]

34 minutes ago, Statik said:

As far as I'm concerned the process in order to allow someone to carry any weapon, especially a concealed firearm should be a complex process.

According to the 2nd amendment, there shouldn't be any process.  The laws only affect law abiding citizens.  Criminals will carry no matter what rules or restrictions are in place.  We need nation wide Constitutional Carry.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Statik said:

Interesting, but I've seen paintballs/airsoft make people bleed too, so not too surprising.

Yeah but this wasn’t point blank. About 1 room distance. 

 

I’m still skeptical myself. 

31 minutes ago, Statik said:

Define overly complex?

 

As far as I'm concerned the process in order to allow someone to carry any weapon, especially a concealed firearm should be a complex process.

More like tedious. I need 4 references & I need to setup an interview, have a special background check. 

I have to wait for the police department to call me back to setup an appointment which is likely going to happen next year to the month. 

 

It would be easier for me to buy a gun across state lines & illegally bring it back with me than get a pistol here. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

According to the 2nd amendment, there shouldn't be any process.  The laws only affect law abiding citizens.  Criminals will carry no matter what rules or restrictions are in place.  We need nation wide Constitutional Carry.

I agree, but the people’s republic of (my state) doesn’t apologise for their laws. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by fpo
Removed my state name.