nVidia's Tom Petersen raises a good point in AMD vs GameWorks issue

[Victorious Secret]

AND Pepsi just so happens to be doing just fine even with the evil Coca Cola company keeping their grubby secrets from the hands of local brewers and giants too.  :rolleyes:

 

You're telling me that niche brewers still exist making their soda products despite Cokes death grip and essential monopoly on the market? 

Say it ain't so! 

[AlwaysFSX]

You're telling me that niche brewers still exist making their soda products despite Cokes death grip and essential monopoly on the market? 

Say it ain't so! 

I know! It's like the market just.. works!

 

*sigh* I can't fathom how some people can come to these ridiculous opinions.

[Dabombinable]

Commenting so i can get back after proving a point, making a 'tech demo' as it were to show the naive/ignorant people that its up to devs to optimize their game not AMD or Nvidia. And while I'm at it I'll prove that AMD's doing an Nvidia and bitching about something that they can sort themselves (3DFX Sli and Nvidia whining about it 'not being in the future of gaming' anyone?)

[Notional]

Yet you're trying to act like Nvidia's code is a black box. You haven't seen it. You haven't made a game with it.

 

I can only assume you're being sarcastic because when you make these kind of arguments, they make no sense.

 

Johan Andersson, the developer behind the FrostByte engine, used in all EA games, disagrees with you:

 

I've actually used things in the GameWorks library for my own fun. From code to engine SDKs. My statement makes perfect sense if you understand the English language. The coding for the GameWorks library is brilliant, it's not a mess and it works great without much of an impact.

 

So you've seen the actual source code of these effects? Or are you simply talking about the functions you use to call these shaders and effects? Because that is hardly the same.

 

What is your comment to this post then? http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/384385-nvidias-tom-petersen-raises-a-good-point-in-amd-vs-gameworks-issue/page-3#entry5190369

[Guest Kloaked]

 

 

too fuckin' bad.

[Victorious Secret]

I know! It's like the market just.. works!

 

*sigh* I can't fathom how some people can come to these ridiculous opinions.

 

Because they don't know how corporations and the market actually work. 

[AlwaysFSX]

 

I'd really like someone to explain to me how GameWorks is unusable..

 

Because they don't know how corporations and the market actually work. 

Noooope.

[Opcode]

Jesus Christ just because it's proprietary doesn't mean jack. Why should it be contaminated by AMD engineers to destroy the code, make it run like shit, and not look as good in game? What's the point of that?

 

Because hurrdurr! Everything has to be open! Free! So everyone can use it! Sorry, in the real world the quality products are made by people who know what they're doing.

If you insist GameWorks is a quality product then you have source code to share right? Unlikely. Maybe you've reversed a few games like Witcher 3 to poke at GameWorks code? Again, unlikely. Proprietary software will always takes a back seat to open source offerings. The reason it's closed source is not because it's so godly good but because that's the only way Nvidia can capitalize on it. If it was open source then AMD developers and open source enthusiasts would take hold and optimize it for the GCN architecture as well. You do understand there's also ways of optimizing the code for AMD hardware without ever touching the existing code. Simple if statements to distinguish the two will make specific hardware optimization a breeze.

if (Nvidia) {  // Retain existing Nvidia optimized code} else if (AMD) {  // New AMD optimized code}

Or

// Existing code// Optimization statement for specific operationsif (Nvidia) {  // Nvidia optimized function} else if (AMD) {  // AMD optimized function}// Existing code

[Dabombinable]

I'd really like someone to explain to me how GameWorks is unusable..

 

Noooope.

Gameworks is only unsusable to AMD's fanboys. Those who actually have sense lower the tesselation settings-which allow Ati's cards to run gameworks better than the Nvidia equivalent.

[AlwaysFSX]

If you insist GameWorks is a quality product then you have source code to share right? Unlikely. Maybe you've reversed a few games like Witcher 3 to poke at GameWorks code? Again, unlikely. Proprietary software will always takes a back seat to open source offerings. The reason it's closed source is not because it's so godly good but because that's the only way Nvidia can capitalize on it. If it was open sourced then AMD developers and open source enthusiasts would take hold and optimize it for the GCN architecture as well. You do understand there's also ways of optimizing the code for AMD hardware without ever touching the existing code. Simple if statements to distinguish the two will make specific hardware optimization a breeze.

You're confusing the statement, so I'm just going to let you continue this on your own.

 

Gameworks is only unsusable to AMD's fanboys. Those who actually have sense lower the tesselation settings-which allow Ati's cards to run gameworks better than the Nvidia equivalent.

Yep, I think I should reuse my rifle analogy more often too. It's perfect.

[Victorious Secret]

Gameworks is only unsusable to AMD's fanboys. Those who actually have sense lower the tesselation settings-which allow Ati's cards to run gameworks better than the Nvidia equivalent.

 

Nothing is worth than fanboys on either side. We all know it, yet some refuse to accept it. 

[zMeul]

Other GameWorks titles are optimized only for Nvidia, and AMD basically gets the gold code and nothing before that.

Dying Light - GameWorks title, nVidia logo plastered everywhere; did you heard anything from AMD? nope

FC4 - again, GameWorks title, have you heard AMD crying? nope

AC: U - GameWorks title, AMD kinda made a fuss about it (if I recall right), but had a driver for it

The Crew - GameWorkd title, AMD said nothing

Borderlands the pre-sequel - same as above

and the list can go on and on

 

so ... is GameWorks to blame for AMD not having a driver ready for the game or is it something else entirely  :rolleyes:

 

---

Lichdom: Battlemage - game that from what I heard uses AMD's TressFX

also, from what I heard, haven't played the game and have no intention to do so, that the developers locked TressFX for nVidia owners

[Victorious Secret]

 

 

 

so ... is GameWorks to blame for AMD not having a driver ready for the game or is it something else entirely  :rolleyes:

 

The only thing that is to blame is that AMD doesn't have enough resources to maintain speedy driver development because they spent too much money on shitty ads and stupid marketing. 

 

Someone needs to fire Huddy and make sure he never works in the industry again. 

[AlwaysFSX]

so ... is GameWorks to blame for AMD not having a driver ready for the game or is it something else entirely  :rolleyes:

I'll take "something else entirely" for 500.

[Dabombinable]

Nothing is worth than fanboys on either side. We all know it, yet some refuse to accept it. 

Which is why I have said fanboys on ignore, and help those who are being mislead avoid falling into the 'trap' as it were set by said fanboy(s). Anyway I'm out, time to have an after exam treat at the cinemas then to fire up 3DS Max 7 and start making models for the tech demo (this old Tecra is still good for its original purpose-AutoCAD).

[Slinkey]

So many stupid arguments which half of us probably don't understand.

 

Simple truth is. One guy is ahead and has an advantage, does not want to level the playing ground.

 

To be honest, I would do the same. Why the hell would I help out my competition?

 

 

Also what the hell is with the AAA vs Indie shit?

CDProject started out as an indie developer, but now they've grown into a grade-A developer. 

[Dabombinable]

So many stupid arguments! The reason is for all this shit is just to stay ahead or have an advantage.

If I was put in the same position, heck no I would do nothing to help my competitor. Rather stay ahead than to equal the playing field.

And that's the crucial fact of business most....well I supoose I can call them people instead of r*****s.....seem to forget.

[Misanthrope]

I experimented with those settings and thought to myself "Do I really wanna sacrifice regular but OK looking hair for either framerate issues or progressively worst baldness?

[sof006]

I pointed this out a couple of times.

 

AMD (specifically Richard Huddy and whomever else) always complains about Gameworks being "unoptimizable" on their video cards yet they release drivers for the game that increases their performance for the games.

 

Now, they say "Gameworks is unoptimizable for our cards" and they're semi-right, but they're saying it as if Gameworks is blocking them from optimizing their drivers for the games period, which just isn't the case at all.

 

I have tried explaining this many times, just like many other members on this forum who are level-headed about this "issue", yet it's like talking to a brick wall.

I know, I feel the same way. How I see it is its AMD's pathetic excuse to cover up that they're driver development team is either lazy... or just downright sucks.

[Guest Kloaked]

I know, I feel the same way. How I see it is its AMD's pathetic excuse to cover up that they're driver development team is either lazy... or just downright sucks.

 

I don't believe they're lazy, I just think they're either overworked, assigned to different projects and can't get to the games, or something.

[zMeul]

Someone needs to fire Huddy and make sure he never works in the industry again. 

amen!

[Notional]

I know, I feel the same way. How I see it is its AMD's pathetic excuse to cover up that they're driver development team is either lazy... or just downright sucks.

 

Feel free to ignore all the developers saying the same thing.

[patrickjp93]

 

I know, I feel the same way. How I see it is its AMD's pathetic excuse to cover up that they're driver development team is either lazy... or just downright sucks.

 

I don't believe they're lazy, I just think they're either overworked, assigned to different projects and can't get to the games, or something.

They're overworked. AMD doesn't have NEARLY the manpower Nvidia does to work with so many developers on so many projects.

[Slinkey]

 

 

 

They're overworked. AMD doesn't have NEARLY the manpower Nvidia does to work with so many developers on so many projects.

 

Has more employees than Nvidia

[patrickjp93]

Exactly as i thought. Nvidia piled on tons of extra tessellation for no reason other than to cripple AMD cards as well as older and lower-end Nvidia cards.

You must be joking. There's marked differences between each image. 8x to 16x kills a lot of jaggies and makes the beard much more realistic.