NVIDIA Could Capitalize on AMD GCN Not Supporting Direct3D 12_1

[zMeul]

So a 290 and 290x would not support it? or am I wrong on what GCN is?

GCN is the main architecture with it's sub-revisions

• GNC 1.0:
  • Oland
  • Cape Verde
  • Pitcairn
  • Tahiti
• GCN 1.1:
  • Bonaire
  • Hawaii
  • Integrated into APUs:
    • Temash
    • Kabini
    • Liverpool
    • Durango
    • Kaveri
    • Godavari
    • Mullins
    • Beema
• GCN 1.2:
  • Tonga 

[ivan134]

Particle update in 15.13 was strictly for adding particle effects to AMD cards.

It also negatively affected Nvidia cards as shown in those videos. Look at warframe videos before that update and the difference is very clear.

[Dabombinable]

I like to believe it's more of the consumers being stupidly impatient that causes that.

 

GTA 5's final release date, case in point.

 

I'm not saying this to be arrogant or anything, but I wish everyone had my kind of patience for video games. You get a way better product by doing so.

I myself have a lot of patience after using slow laptops for over a decade between desktops. For me a jump from a Pentium 4 3.2GHz Northwood to a Core Duo T2600 was massive, and even larger still to a phenom P920 1.6GHz. Now after using an Haswell i5 I've realised just how patient I was in the past-all 3 laptops are unbearably slow compared to my desktop.

[Opcode]

I myself have a lot of patience after using slow laptops for over a decade between desktops. For me a jump from a Pentium 4 3.2GHz Northwood to a Core Duo T2600 was massive, and even larger still to a phenom P920 1.6GHz. Now after using an Haswell i5 I've realised just how patient I was in the past-all 3 laptops are unbearably slow compared to my desktop.

I think going from a single core to something with multiple cores is the real eye opener. Nothing like having a CPU chug away at one thread at a time. 

[Bean86]

This will eternally be a problem until game and game engine programmers are paid more and higher quality programmers are hired. Publishing studios wouldn't want to part with any amount of their profit margins though, oh no, can't have that.

that's why more people should support games like Star Citizen, even if it requires patience

[Techhog]

Of course Nvidia's gonna capitalize. Have you not been paying attention lately? They want a monopoly, and they're going straight for AMD's throat.

[Dabombinable]

I think going from a single core to something with multiple cores is the real eye opener. Nothing like having a CPU chug away at one thread at a time. 

I should have been more clear. The Athlon X4 appeared to run faster than the FX 8350 which was a supposed upgrade. And it is an eye opener if you go from a Northwood P4 @ 3.2GHz to a Phenom II P20 x4 1.6GHz.

[Opcode]

I should have been more clear. The Athlon X4 appeared to run faster than the FX 8350 which was a supposed upgrade. And it is an eye opener if you go from a Northwood P4 @ 3.2GHz to a Phenom II P20 x4 1.6GHz.

You were clear as was I. I was just picking out those of us who has ran single core machines for a period of time. I moved from the Athlon 64 3800+ to a cheap Biostar AM3 motherboard and Athlon II x3 450 along with a 4GB of Samsung magic ram. The difference was like going from a HDD to an SSD.

[Humbug]

I should have been more clear. The Athlon X4 appeared to run faster than the FX 8350 which was a supposed upgrade.

Most of the general system responsiveness is not due to processor bottlnecks I had a windows 7 build feel extremely snappy on a Pentium G840 CPU because the OS was in a good state and running on an SSD with sufficient RAM. Some other underlying software change in our systems often causes a slight slowdown which we blame on the hardware.

[Dabombinable]

Most of the general system responsiveness is not due to processor bottlnecks I had a windows 7 build feel extremely snappy on a Pentium G840 CPU because the OS was in a good state and running on an SSD with sufficient RAM. Some other underlying software change in our systems often causes a slight slowdown which we blame on the hardware.

It was litterally a straight motherboard and CPU swap, nothing else was actually changed at all.

[Dabombinable]

You were clear as was I. I was just picking out those of us who has ran single core machines for a period of time. I moved from the Athlon 64 3800+ to a cheap Biostar AM3 motherboard and Athlon II x3 450 along with a 4GB of Samsung magic ram. The difference was like going from a HDD to an SSD.

Same as moving from a 2006 model workstation ultraportable laptop to a custom desktop that can max out any game at 1080p (and has a HDD that's well over 5x the speed).

[Humbug]

It was litterally a straight motherboard and CPU swap, nothing else was actually changed at all.

A motherboard swap changes quite a bit at the OS/driver level I would think. Did you try a clean install?

[patrickjp93]

that's why more people should support games like Star Citizen, even if it requires patience

As one who's actually looked through the quality of the code, keep dreaming. My HPC professor revised half their physics engine in three days because he lost a bet with our class. Star Citizen will be epic, but it's more artistry for the eyes than it is for the science of programming. The lighting effects come to you from Dahnanjai Rao via multithreaded ray tracing. You're welcome.

[Humbug]

As one who's actually looked through the quality of the code, keep dreaming.

Who writes good code in the game industry in your opinion?

[Linusinium]

Before claiming that all 9xx cards are dx12.1 compatible I would wait for official statement from Nvidia.
 
 

 
 
The "12 API with feature level 12.1" is notably missing from 9xx cards but I wouldn't raise alarm at this point, it could be a simple oversight, NV simply forgot but now NV's official specification pages indicate 12.1 compatibility only for the 980TI & Titan X. That could be simply because these are the most recent cards, released after dx12.1 feature set was finalized hence those two being the only cards with newest info.
 
Or, it could be because only those two cards have the same newest chip that is exclusively compatible with dx12.1.
 
Typically I remain calm longer than most others when it comes to future compatibility questions but historically, compliance with dx revisions has proven to be relevant.

 

I expect dx12.1 to be the definitive revision, like 11.1 was. When MS moved to numerical nomenclature (remember dx abc's?) they said future revisions would be fewer and farther between. 

 

We probably won't see another major dX revision until the next xbox.

[IhazHedont]

What about GTX780/780Ti ? Will they support the majority of DX12, 12_1 and 12_2 ?

[mr moose]

What about GTX780/780Ti ? Will they support the majority of DX12, 12_1 and 12_2 ?

compatible with 12 but will lack features of the 12_1 and so on, nothing worth worrying about.  People on LTT seem to get their panties in a bunch over this sort of thing, however I have yet to see a game that can't be played on a specific card due to DX issues.  I can play everything now on my 5 year old Fermi,  granted not as well as a 980 or 290x, but that has little to do with DX and everything to do with the age of the card. 

[Opcode]

compatible with 12 but will lack features of the 12_1 and so on, nothing worth worrying about.  People on LTT seem to get their panties in a bunch over this sort of thing, however I have yet to see a game that can't be played on a specific card due to DX issues.  I can play everything now on my 5 year old Fermi,  granted not as well as a 980 or 290x, but that has little to do with DX and everything to do with the age of the card. 

It actually has a lot more to do with DirectX than anything else. The API has rollback layers so even if your graphics card is only compliant with DirectX 9 features you can still play DirectX 11 games. The trade off is you're limited to whatever your card/driver supports.

[mr moose]

It actually has a lot more to do with DirectX than anything else. The API has rollback layers so even if your graphics card is only compliant with DirectX 9 features you can still play DirectX 11 games. The trade off is you're limited to whatever your card/driver supports.

 

ERGO:  the problem is with the age of the card not the latest DX. 

[Opcode]

ERGO:  the problem is with the age of the card not the latest DX. 

Performance wise it's actually both. The reason why it still doesn't have problems playing games, I outlined above.

[Elapo]

Explaining my point better; you claim devs will use x features because nvidia has a majority market share in GPUs. I point out that nvidia doesn't have a majority in total GPU sales (didn't specify what type of GPU) disputing your original claim. I didn't even mention the fact that cards that supported the feature you claim they would exploit is a fraction of nvidias total shipped dgpus, which is a fraction of total GPUs.

 

What do you say we actually take a sample out of the community that matter - all gamers. 

 

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

 

Taken monthly from all steam users, a far more representative chart than any of the others. Total shipped GPU's is absolute bullcrap. I have an intel HD 3000 in my 2600k. Do you really think I ACTUALLY use it? Of course not, but it DID ship. EVERY 1150/1155 i3/i5/i7 contains a dGPU, but I'm fairly sure the majority of the gamers doesn't actually use them to game. Same story for the AMD side: The number of gamers will be slightly higher due to their APU's being better, but the majority will STILL use a dGPU.

 

Your point still stands - to a certain degree - but to claim Nvidia doesn't have the majority of the market share of gamers is BS.

[IhazHedont]

compatible with 12 but will lack features of the 12_1 and so on, nothing worth worrying about.  People on LTT seem to get their panties in a bunch over this sort of thing, however I have yet to see a game that can't be played on a specific card due to DX issues.  I can play everything now on my 5 year old Fermi,  granted not as well as a 980 or 290x, but that has little to do with DX and everything to do with the age of the card. 

 

I suppose the most important is DX12 compatibility since it brings better performance with compatible games.

[Doobeedoo]

Funny how there's already 12.x version.

[spartaman64]

Yea but that requires understanding how the markets really work and understanding that a monopoly ≠ anti-trust and that you can have a monopoly on a market and still charge fair prices. 

why would you want nvidia to have a monopoly there is no way nvidia is going to charge fair prices even if there is a limit on how much they can charge you can bet they are going up to the highest limit if they have a monopoly and gpus will become like cpus with 5-10% increase each generation instead of the 40-50% increase 

[Victorious Secret]

why would you want nvidia to have a monopoly there is no way nvidia is going to charge fair prices if they have a monopoly and gpus will become like cpus with 5-10% increase each generation instead of the 40-50% increase

You realize that everything reaches a limit for advancement? CPUs haven't needed to evolve for 4 years since they've been plenty powerful since. GPUs haven't hit that ceiling of diminishing returns.

Maybe once we leave silicon we will see vast jumps in performance, but we barely have software now that can stress Intels 2xxx chips much less Haswell or Broadwell.

You're acting like 5-10% is nothing. 5-10% a generation from the 9xx i7s to what Broadwell has is effectively a 20-40% jump, and 4 years for a CPU seems like a fair lifespan (as well as GPU). You act like people swap out hardware each year for more. They don't.

Once again, monopoly doesnt mean anti trust nor does it mean the landscape becomes stagnant. Lots of industries have a monopoly yet innovation still occurs.