Covering Windows 10 Briefing

[Victorious Secret]

Yes. It was sad to hear that Ballmer was blocking the release of Office on iOS and Android. The thing was done, yet blocked for months (based on rumors).. basically Satya unblocked and let it release. Shame this was blocked, really. Time have changed and the old business models no longer works. It's nice to see Microsoft finally adapting.

 

 

For a large company, which historically has large company problems of not adapting fast enough, MS has certainly been trying really hard to garner good will lately even though all they need to do is release a new OS and walk away. But nope, they know they need to stay on the ball and focus on what actually matters. Their core is always going to be the business sector and thats who gives MS the tens of billions of dollars a year; not gaming. Not streaming. Not game releases. None of that. 

What still irks me what the hell people want MS to do for gaming. They gave a API that has been in development for years. They give you a open market to develop and release your content on. With the murder of GFWL, they don't even have a horse in the race. Pick whatever distribution service you want. They work closely with Intel, AMD and Nvidia to refine their performance, you have to be one serious conspiracy nut to think otherwise. 

You want them to what? Release largely lack lustre exclusive games? Forza is fun, its no Project Cars or RFactor. Halo is actually fun, so I'll give them that. Can't come up with much else if I'm actually honest. Theres FIFA and NHL and what not, but the market for die hard EA Sports players wouldn't warrant that anyways. FIFA does because its FIFA, but the multiplayer experience is far better on a console for a game like FIFA. 

Point being, what the hell else do you want them to do? Do more? They are doing plenty. I just don't get it. Gamers are a weird bunch. You are not the centre of MSs world. They do plenty to give plenty to every single developer to make their own magic. So I've never understood the "MS need to do more for PC Gamers" mentality. Maybe MS just needs to shut up about PC gaming and never talk about "doing more" for us again, because we sure as fuck have no genuine idea what "more" should be, based off this thread. 

[deathjester]

What still irks me what the hell people want MS to do for gaming. 

 

Stop paying to keep multiplat, third party games and paying to keep or delay them off PC from their own customers would be a start. The only exclusives kept from your own ecosystem should be first party (which  you mentioned, yet failed to mention all the THIRD PARTY titles MS has delayed or kept off PC). 

 

"FIFA does because its FIFA, but the multiplayer experience is far better on a console for a game like FIFA.". Nope. We have TV's, HDMI cords and can use a console controller. How is it a better experience on a console. Ignite is now on the PC version. Same goes for NBA 2k15. That companies servers suck, but they suck on every platform. 

 

Also if MS made no money from PC Gamers buying their OS? They would not have put DirectX behind pay walls. or kept the XBox division alive, when it often operated at a loss. If MS made no money from PC Gamers they would have no reason to do this. 

 

Nice rant though, with zero valid points.

[DeathRtH]

Stop paying to keep multiplat, third party games and paying to keep or delay them off PC from their own customers would be a start. The only exclusives kept from your own ecosystem should be first party (which  you mentioned, yet failed to mention all the THIRD PARTY titles MS has delayed or kept off PC). 

 

I have to agree, I see why they pay to keep it off PS4/Wii ETC Maybe even Linux and OSX but Windows is their platform and they shouldn't prevent or delay a release on pc. 

[deathjester]

I have to agree, I see why they pay to keep it off PS4/Wii ETC Maybe even Linux and OSX but Windows is their platform and they shouldn't prevent or delay a release on pc. 

 

It is especially insulting when Sony gives us FIRST PARTY GAMES lik H1Z1, Planetside 2, Everquest Next. In before people say H1Z1 alpha is a disaster when Halo MCC multiplayer shipped and operated as a broken title... 

 

What does MS give us? Allow THIRD PARTY games that didn't sell well to be published on PC months after release on Xbox.

[DeathRtH]

It is especially insulting when Sony gives us FIRST PARTY GAMES lik H1Z1, Planetside 2, Everquest Next. In before people say H1Z1 alpha is a disaster when Halo MCC multiplayer shipped and operated as a broken title... 

 

What does MS give us? Allow THIRD PARTY games that didn't sell well to be published on PC months after release on Xbox.

 

To be fair while Halo had a bad release, they didn't hype it, they didn't give out free copys to streamers and make it the biggest deal on twitch, Sony did exactly that, free keys for streamers, TONS of hype, and they didn't have the servers for all of it, they hyped it to a point where they lost control and they deserve the flak, not that Halo doesn't deserve flak, but Sony screwed up a lot worse IMO.

[Victorious Secret]

To be fair while Halo had a bad release, they didn't hype it, they didn't give out free copys to streamers and make it the biggest deal on twitch, Sony did exactly that, free keys for streamers, TONS of hype, and they didn't have the servers for all of it, they hyped it to a point where they lost control and they deserve the flak, not that Halo doesn't deserve flak, but Sony screwed up a lot worse IMO.

 

343, Ruffian, Sabre and Certain bit off more than they were capable of doing. If it was just Halo 2: Anniversary? It would've been fine. But they got ambitious and screwed it up so bad. H1Z1? They hyped it, promised it wouldn't have a single scrap of P2W in its code, they lied up until the week of release for crying out loud. 

All developers these days are dodgy and after the almighty dollar. Its foolish to think that any developer is actually doing it for sunshine and rainbows. Developers like good will with fans, they like sales more. Its not just publishers who get greedy and want more. 

[deathjester]

To be fair while Halo had a bad release, they didn't hype it, they didn't give out free copys to streamers and make it the biggest deal on twitch, Sony did exactly that, free keys for streamers, TONS of hype, and they didn't have the servers for all of it, they hyped it to a point where they lost control and they deserve the flak, not that Halo doesn't deserve flak, but Sony screwed up a lot worse IMO.

 

MMO's often have this problem. Ultima Online was a mess at release and they never expected it to be that big. It was literally unplayable with lag etc. WoW was the same, and servers are a mess with every big expansion. SWTOR devs said they didn't expect players to be end game level so soon, and thought it would be years before people got to "endgame", which might be the stupidest thing I have ever heard from a dev. 

 

Also those were not alpha's or beta's. Sony simply underestimated how popular a zombie mmo type game would be on PC. Why? I don't know. Pc Gamers seem to love zombie online games (why, I have no freakin idea).

 

You are comparing a pre release to a release on a SMALL install base (Xbox One) which touts their Azure servers as the greatest things to ever exist, and they couldn't even get multiplayer MCC working right. As far as it being 343's and not MS's fault?

 

MS had one title they needed to work right. Halo. They should have had "top men" involved. The servers, the cloud, are a MAJOR selling point that MS stresses every week it seems. When it didn't work, it made MS look like idiots.

[GoodBytes]

The TOS should be an interesting read and something everyone should read before trading in their licence.Nothing is free. Services, which MS has clarified this is, are not free.

Subscription based Windows is inevitable. The industry is going that way.

It all started with A/V's, e-mail, MMOs games, Google with their storage, then on music, then Adobe, then Autodesk, then Office, Visual Studio Online, and eventually Windows will come. And those are only the big players. They are smaller group and business solutions which doesn't affect us.

That said Windows 10 is NOT free. ONLY if you have Windows 7 or 8.1. If you build a computer, you are buying Windows. I think the reason why it is free is for 1 reason only: Universal Apps/Modern UI apps. Google and Apple makes billions out of their stores. Microsoft makes virtually none. So in Microsoft eyes... what is loosing several millions, when you can make billions with sales of desktop and Universal Apps on their stores.

I won't be surprised if Microsoft implements a subscription platform for developers for them to implement if they want to. It will be integrated with the Windows App stores, and my users will use Microsoft subscription manager page to manage their subscriptions. Basically, all my the administrative work, as a developer, is done for me, with a strong ecosystem (I mean servers with good connections). Microsoft obviously will get a cut from my subscription.

Watch and see become a reality. This is how Microsoft will make money (mixed with their Ads SDK tools for developers, which Apple and Google have for developers that wants to make money but sell their software for free).

Microsoft pumped this up as something PC Gamers would be interested in as far as gaming. 

1. Streaming is backward, MS: Hey buy this x86 computer that is worse than your x86 computer to stream to your X86 computer.

Microsoft can't control the fact that they are publishers that refuses to release their games on PC.

Yes Yes, I know Microsoft bought exclusivity of a select few AAA games for their console. It sucks, the deal should have went XBox One + PC exclusive (basically no PS4 or WiiU (well in any case that won't happen on the WiiU case, lets be honest here) release. But that doesn't change that fact that other games publishers don't want it on PC.

Sadly, big publishers thinks that the PC space is this piracy heaven, and that all PC gamers are criminals. Microsoft can't do anything about it. The XBox One sadly doesn't have the foot down on domination like the PS4 has this generation to say "XBox Games on PC, don't like it publishers because you think it will be pirated? To bad!". If they do, then magically, much like the WiiU, the console will pass from being praised, to the suckiest thing that humanity ever created (ahem: EA).

As piracy is inevitable, even if Microsoft does it, next console will be problematic. Microsoft isn't like Nintendo. Nintendo first and second party games is enough to get it's console to sell, and be profitable at the end of the day, and that is what counts. As they are seeing it as a toy that they are making. Nintendo was a toy manufacture since day 1 (well they started with making fancy high-quality cards for a popular card game at the time in Japan).

I did predict that they would do this, which I am a bit surprised:

(darn I can't find my post ) Well what ever.

What I am surprised is that I expect the reverse possible. Maybe at E3 this year, as it would be an XBox feature, they'll show it. Another thing I expected is that because the TV box is being fed to the XBox One, to stream TV to your computer. That would be pretty cool. Imagine accessing your TV while playing a game to wait for a show starting or just hear the top news or something.

2. MS didn't even announce THIRD PARTY titles that they paid to delay or keep off PC, let alone first party titles.

My guess, is that it will be revealed at E3.

3. DX 12. MS selling a bunch of snake oil to potential Xbox One buyers even though Phil Spencer already said this.

"On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing.”

All I seeing Microsoft said is that because DX12 is lighter on the CPU and give you a performance boost in performance on the graphics card, you can put more on the screen. But the textures resolution, max polygon count, and all other limitations of the GPU of the XBox One will remain. So in other words, using DirectX12 you can expect (assuming the developer cares or allowed to by it's publishers in terms of time and resources), better AI, or more computer players on the screen. This is exactly like Mantle. Mantle won't magically turn your Ati Rage and turn it into a Radeon R290. No it won't. It will free the CPU more, gain a bit of GPU performance at best. That is a bit it. All depending on the type and how the game was done

I believe that DirectX1 2 will be revealed in full on Windows 10 official release announcement.

I saw the presentation, Microsoft only took a few minutes, all they did and go "Oh hey guys, DirectX12 we didn't forget about it, you remember DirectX12? It's this thing that will make the same content of a gaming give UP TO 50% performance improvement, so longer battery life on mobile device!!!" That is all what I got from it.

[DeathRtH]

MMO's often have this problem. Ultima Online was a mess at release and they never expected it to be that big. It was literally unplayable with lag etc. WoW was the same, and servers are a mess with every big expansion. SWTOR devs said they didn't expect players to be end game level so soon, and thought it would be years before people got to "endgame", which might be the stupidest thing I have ever heard from a dev. 

 

Also those were not alpha's or beta's. Sony simply underestimated how popular a zombie mmo type game would be on PC. Why? I don't know. Pc Gamers seem to love zombie online games (why, I have no freakin idea).

 

You are comparing a pre release to a release on a SMALL install base (Xbox One) which touts their Azure servers as the greatest things to ever exist, and they couldn't even get multiplayer MCC working right. As far as it being 343's and not MS's fault?

 

MS had one title they needed to work right. Halo. They should have had "top men" involved. The servers, the cloud, are a MAJOR selling point that MS stresses every week it seems. When it didn't work, it made MS look like idiots.

 

I'm not comparing them, I wasn't the one who brought up Halo, I haven't played it and probably wont anytime soon so I'm not trying to compare them. But H1Z1 was a mess, you don't hype a game like that, or promise no "remotely" P2W content and then release without an ability to handle most of the players, and have (Somewhat*) P2W airdrops. It wasn't a little mistake, but at least they are trying to fix it.

 

(I say Somewhat on airdrops because you still have to fight for/to keep them.)

[Davehaslanded]

Anybody else intrigued by the announcement that directx 12 could also half Power draw, make GPUs more efficient. Surely half the PowerDraw would mean half the heat output. Therefore, within the restrictions of the draw calls etc, could you not theoretically push the graphics card twice as hard, at least up to its thermal limit?

[DeathRtH]

Anybody else intrigued by the announcement that directx 12 could also half Power draw, make GPUs more efficient. Surely half the PowerDraw would mean half the heat output. Therefore, within the restrictions of the draw calls etc, could you not theoretically push the graphics card twice as hard, at least up to its thermal limit?

 

I am, I currently use a laptop for..everything, so hopefully DX12 will help battery life when I'm using it out of the house. Plus I get a lot of issues with heat, right now with it being winter here its not an issue, but during the summer I can't even hit 50% CPU or GPU without everything grinding to a halt so if it can help either, or both of the issues I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[deathjester]

Subscription based Windows is inevitable. .

I won't be surprised if Microsoft implements a subscription platform for developers for them to implement if they want to. It will be integrated with the Windows App stores, and my users will use Microsoft subscription manager page to manage their subscriptions. Basically, all my the administrative work, as a developer, is done for me, with a strong ecosystem (I mean servers with good connections). Microsoft obviously will get a cut from my subscription.

Watch and see become a reality. This is how Microsoft will make money (mixed with their Ads SDK tools for developers, which Apple and Google have for developers that wants to make money but sell their software for free).

Microsoft can't control the fact that they are publishers that refuses to release their games on PC.

Yes Yes, I know Microsoft bought exclusivity of a select few AAA games for their console. It sucks, the deal should have went XBox One + PC exclusive (basically no PS4 or WiiU (well in any case that won't happen on the WiiU case, lets be honest here) release. But that doesn't change that fact that other games publishers don't want it on PC.

 

 

Microsoft can't control the fact that they are publishers that refuses to release their games on PC.

I have never once complained about Madden (the game series is trash now, and I want NFL 2k back). Also, FIFA with the new engine is on PC. NBA 2k 15 with the new engine is on PC. Fighting games are all coming to the PC (minus KI at this time, but that is first party and I have never complained about first party). Madden and EA sports games which I could care less about is the only games I can think of here. I am more concerned about games like Tomb Raider or multiplats that have always been on the PC.

 

Subscription based Windows is inevitable. I won't be surprised if Microsoft implements a subscription platform. Watch and see become a reality. This is how Microsoft will make money.

That is not free. Are you saying this is basically a bait and switch to keep OpenGL adoption from happening in a CRUCIAL time frame for MS with a new OpenGL coming out? I agree.

 

Again. I have repeatedly said if this is FIRST PARTY, I have no problem with Xbox Live on PC. That would currently include what? Forza, KI, Halo (which was previously third party), Minecraft. If that was what the subscription fee entailed? I have no problem with that. If this is however a deal with EA (which MS has ties with on XB1), and other third party devs to monetize gaming as a sub fee on Windows?

 

MS can literally go to hell. That is why I said I want to see TOS first, and see what exactly is going to be monetized in the coming months. That does not make me a "hater" (anyone who uses this as a defense is a moron), or "entitled". It means I want to see how MS is going to make money from this, because they ARE going to make money from this, and what has been shown so far means zero income from PC Gamers.

 

I can think of two things where MS can make money here from PC Gamers. Selling/gathering personal information for advertising which will be in the TOS, which we don't have access to yet.

 

Case in point.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/07/microsoft-is-using-your-data-to-target-political-ads-on-xbox-live/

 

Xbox Live on PC, when many people left Xbox to get away from the subscription fee. I don't see a first party line up here that would make them their money back, which makes me very apprehensive on what kind of deals they will try to cut with third party publishers to make a "walled garden"

[suicidalfranco]

literally meh-ed on everything

[Davehaslanded]

I am, I currently use a laptop for..everything, so hopefully DX12 will help battery life when I'm using it out of the house. Plus I get a lot of issues with heat, right now with it being winter here its not an issue, but during the summer I can't even hit 50% CPU or GPU without everything grinding to a halt so if it can help either, or both of the issues I can't wait to get my hands on it.

The one positive about winter. Lol. The funny thing is I don't ever really need any heaters on in my room. I have a custom Waterloop with and OC FX8350 and Xfire 290s. Even at idle, it keeps the room comfortably warm. In the summer, I have to use an Aircon unit.

For me battery savings on really an issue, though I suppose it is a positive whatever way you look at it. I'm more interested in seeing with the developers will use that extra headroom on the GPUs to actually push more power as opposed to just improving frame rates. If you're hitting more than 60 Hz/144 Hz depending on your monitor, then you are wasting performance. I want to push it. Push it until it buckles and falls to its knees. Just not in an Assassins Creed Unity kind of way. Lol

[shiftberry]

It better be as good as Windows 7.

[GoodBytes]

You mean like requiring TPM 2.0 for any Win 8.1 PC?

I am confused, what? I can install Windows 8 on my desktop, laptop, and old desktop computer which all don't have TPM chips, and my Surface Pro 2 has a TPM chip 1.2, and that came out with 8.1. So I am confused. What did I miss?

Like I said, wait for the terms of service for both the upgrade and the OS before being excited. These are the same people who envisioned this.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-ones-top-marketer-brags-to-advertisers-about-kine-1441807229

Well they said: "The comments in Ad Age attributed to Yusuf Mehdi were not in relation to Kinect."

Doesn't mean that the technology is made at Microsoft Research that it will be used. You think that won't engage into legal complications if it's not mentioned? Advertisers do tests with people which they monitor on new ads before releasing to the public. Yes, they get paid, you can participate in this if you want. Sounds to me they are developing tools for advertisers for their case studies for new ads analysis.

Now if it was really the goal (ie: spy on people), that would be asking for a massive legal lawsuit. It would be suicidal for Microsoft.

And who did this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/07/microsoft-is-using-your-data-to-target-political-ads-on-xbox-live/

.

So Microsoft was asking if they wanted political parties to post ads in their XBox console? While I am fully against ads on a console, to me makes no sense., I mean you payed the console, and you paying the service as a user, but that is a different topic. Assuming I am ok with that, I must ask... so what?

I am sure Microsoft went to Coca Cola, Pepsi, car manufactures, and any other large companies to push their advertisement platform to get big contracts. As the artists mentions, apparently political ads are very profitable and sounds like a big business. So why not?

(Again, I reiterate, I am against ads on a console. I also against paying per month/year for online access. What I can accept (like my limit) is: Voice/Video chat with ads as it's free and demanding on the server. I can accept that.)

[deathjester]

I am confused, what? I can install Windows 8 on my desktop, laptop, and old desktop computer which all don't have TPM chips, and my Surface Pro 2 has a TPM chip 1.2, and that came out with 8.1. So I am confused. What did I miss?

Well they said: "The comments in Ad Age attributed to Yusuf Mehdi were not in relation to Kinect."

Doesn't mean that the technology is made at Microsoft Research that it will be used. You think that won't engage into legal complications if it's not mentioned? Advertisers do tests with people which they monitor on new ads before releasing to the public. Yes, they get paid, you can participate in this if you want. Sounds to me they are developing tools for advertisers for their case studies for new ads analysis.

Now if it was really the goal (ie: spy on people), that would be asking for a massive legal lawsuit. It would be suicidal for Microsoft.

So Microsoft was asking if they wanted political parties to post ads in their XBox console? While I am fully against ads on a console, to me makes no sense., I mean you payed the console, and you paying the service as a user, but that is a different topic. Assuming I am ok with that, I must ask... so what?

I am sure Microsoft went to Coca Cola, Pepsi, car manufactures, and any other large companies to push their advertisement platform to get big contracts. As the artists mentions, apparently political ads are very profitable and sounds like a big business. So why not?

(Again, I reiterate, I am against ads on a console. I also against paying per month/year for online access. What I can accept (like my limit) is: Voice/Video chat with ads as it's free and demanding on the server. I can accept that.)

 

And if they do not make money from advertising?

 

That leaves the walled garden with third party publishers, which is probably where we are heading, and which you seem to agree with as far as a subscription fee inevitably coming.

 

MS simply does not have the line up for PC Gaming without third party publishers. Halo is like COD/Titanfall in gameplay and built more around a controller. Not gonna work as far as a sub fee. We would need a Halo tailored to the PC. Killer Instinct? PC Gamers have shown time and time again that they will play an alternative if it is almost as good or as good and cheaper (no sub fee is cheaper). We have Mortal Kombat, Streetfighter coming to PC and Streetfighter is cross play. Forza? Again we have alternatives. Minecraft is the only crown jewel MS has that would possibly get PC Gamers on a sub fee (and I can see why they paid that much for it).

 

The only way I see this working and being profitable is an alliance with big third party publishers, and my money is on EA, who already has ties with Xbox with EA Access.

 

At that point we are paying a monthly fee to play games we would have had anyways, and where MS can still keep first party games from us, which is the stupidest thing I can think of.

[Thony]

Yeah I was surprised, my grandfather (Whos been in IT for decades) was astonished and glad to hear about it being a free upgrade.

Well nothing is set in stone until we get the W10. I will surely upgrade my W7 asap.

[Thony]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the one year free thing.

People on Windows 7/8.1 will have one year from the release date to upgrade to Windows 10. If you do that, you will never have to pay any additional fees, you will have Windows 10 license forever. However, if you wait longer than 1 year, you will have to pay to upgrade to Windows 10. I hope that clears it up.

Yea i got it after the othwr guy pointed that out. OP needs to fix his description on that topic.

[DeathRtH]

Well nothing is set in stone until we get the W10. I will surely upgrade my W7 asap.

 

I'll likely wait a week or 2 personally (will have to anyways to back up data.) just in case there is an issue, or something else. But I would rather have W10 that isn't perfect but will have support for a few extra years, over W7 which is already being killed off.

[atrash]

@cesrai I think this video can pretty much sums up about the Windows 10,to those who are too lazy to watch the whole stream.

 

 

Thanks for the coverage.

[GoodBytes]

Microsoft can't control the fact that they are publishers that refuses to release their games on PC.

I have never once complained about Madden (the game series is trash now, and I want NFL 2k back). Also, FIFA with the new engine is on PC. NBA 2k 15 with the new engine is on PC. Fighting games are all coming to the PC (minus KI at this time, but that is first party and I have never complained about first party). Madden and EA sports games which I could care less about is the only games I can think of here. I am more concerned about games like Tomb Raider or multiplats that have always been on the PC.

Great! So why do you care about playing XBox One games on PC, if they are available and also cheaper on PC already?

 

Subscription based Windows is inevitable. I won't be surprised if Microsoft implements a subscription platform. Watch and see become a reality. This is how Microsoft will make money.

That is not free. Are you saying this is basically a bait and switch to keep OpenGL adoption from happening in a CRUCIAL time frame for MS with a new OpenGL coming out? I agree.

No. You don't understand. It's not free for 1 year THEN you pay. It's: Windows 10 UPGRADE is free for the day the OS is released, up to 1 year after. Then you need to go a store and buy Windows 10 UPGRADE. If you want Windows 10 in FULL (say, you are building a new computer, and you have no licenses of Windows you can use), you need to pay even if you got it the day Windows 10 was release. Only upgrades get it for free.

DirectX is the prefered choice on Windows platform mostly because of:

-> Documentation. Microsoft spent a lot of ressources on it's documentation and books on how to do things. Much like Nvidia is doing with CUDA, They have many books on it, with books even going by examples, and the code presented are not only well optimized, but explained why it was done in such a way. And books on how CUDA works. That is the EAISEST and CHEAPEST way to get support.

-> Development tools. Visual Studio, Nvidia and AMD both have POWERFUL tools to debug and trace performance on DirectX. OpenGL.... nothing... ok I lie, but very basic in comparison, up until recently where AMD and Nvidia have made some tools, but not really great. I don't know why, but that is the case.

Again. I have repeatedly said if this is FIRST PARTY, I have no problem with Xbox Live on PC.

Ah ok. So you are NOT complaining about XBox stream to PC, but rather the fact that Microsoft doesn't have a studio like Nintendo and Sony to make game in house, but rather buys games, essentially. I agree.

Nintendo survives from it's first party and second party titles.

It looks like now Microsoft survives on third party titles. I am not sure if the fact of buying titles a way that they saw this doesn't work, and they need first party games, and they have a plan of action in place but needs something so that the console isn't a flop and keep third party developers. I don't know.

If that is not the case, they need a new manager. I would agree on that. I am assuming that there was an older manager which took the decision of not making first party title.

MS can literally go to hell. That is why I said I want to see TOS first, and see what exactly is going to be monetized in the coming months. That does not make me a "hater" (anyone who uses this as a defense is a moron), or "entitled". It means I want to see how MS is going to make money from this, because they ARE going to make money from this, and what has been shown so far means zero income from PC Gamers.

 

Here is the list:

-> Windows App Store

-> Cortana (your searches, what you store (meetings, flights info, and so on)*, and what you surf

* If you fly a lot to Mexico, for example, is detected, ads on vacation trips to Mexico can be presented in ads in the web browser in Bing or devices using Microsoft Ad platform. If you have a lot of meeting, it can see your are business person, and you may like what business person tend to like.

If the above sounds intrusive or you don't feel comfortable using, then don't use Google and their associated services or Chrome, because that is what they do, even if you use private mode in Chrome, you are being tracked.

I can think of two things where MS can make money here from PC Gamers. Selling/gathering personal information for advertising which will be in the TOS, which we don't have access to yet.

For the XBox streaming thing? Nha. That is just a reply to the WiiU and PS4 which both have the ability. The WiiU it's built-in in the console, PS4 you need a box + second TV (or monitor with HDMI), or the expensive PS Vita. Microsoft solution is essentially free. You can use a tablet running Windows 10 (with the XBox One controller, of course), or well, any PC (laptop/desktop) in the house (running Windows 10).

Xbox Live on PC, when many people left Xbox to get away from the subscription fee. I don't see a first party line up here that would make them their money back, which makes me very apprehensive on what kind of deals they will try to cut with third party publishers to make a "walled garden"

Yet people switch to the PS4 with subscription fee. And WiiU is not gaining any interest among most gamers, despite good games, and that is free online play.

[GoodBytes]

And if they do not make money from advertising?

 

That leaves the walled garden with third party publishers, which is probably where we are heading, and which you seem to agree with as far as a subscription fee inevitably coming.

Well, they better make it work (make money that is). It works for everyone else, so it will be a big fail on Microsoft part. I don't see them giving up on this. Google has opened this door of massive revenue, and Apple has shown that it can be replicated. I don't see Microsoft wanted a nice peace of the pie.

MS simply does not have the line up for PC Gaming without third party publishers. Halo is like COD/Titanfall in gameplay and built more around a controller. Not gonna work as far as a sub fee. We would need a Halo tailored to the PC. Killer Instinct? PC Gamers have shown time and time again that they will play an alternative if it is almost as good or as good and cheaper (no sub fee is cheaper). We have Mortal Kombat, Streetfighter coming to PC and Streetfighter is cross play. Forza? Again we have alternatives. Minecraft is the only crown jewel MS has that would possibly get PC Gamers on a sub fee (and I can see why they paid that much for it).

 

I think the idea is that you use the XBox One controller. But I don't see Microsoft charging for XBox Streaming or even (assuming that this can happen in a different world): Playing XBox games on PC. Last I checked (I am out of the loop, I never owned an XBox), XBox Live is to play games online, not to access the console. I think I am not understanding you, or I got lost. Sorry DO you mind re-explaining? I think I know what you are saying, and if it is I want to agree with you, but not sure.

[deathjester]

Ah ok. So you are NOT complaining about XBox stream to PC, but rather the fact that Microsoft doesn't have a studio like Nintendo and Sony to make game in house, but rather buys games, essentially. I agree.

 

 

Bingo. If MS wants to create first party masterpieces, like maybe a PC oriented Halo, a Age of Empires, a new Flight Simultator, Minecraft 2 (which they own now) and bring XB1 titles to PC on a Xbox Live service, or maybe even create their own MMO (if I remember right they had ties to Asheron's Call)? Go for it. I am all for that. I WISH MS had cared more about first party. They could have done SO much.

 

Third party publishers in the mix as part of the service? No. Unless the service is free like Steam, and then MS makes no money, so I don't see how this would work. 

 

There is a right way and a wrong way MS can go here. MS can invest in PC Gaming, and first party and has the money to do awesome stuff. They also have a past history where they tend to screw PC Gamers over with third party. 

 

Want me to believe in "good guy Microsoft"? That begins and ends with no more third party shenanigans and screwing over PC Gamers. Make a new Asheron's call, or Age of Empires, a new Flight Simulator (we DEFINITELY could use some more flight games), and throw in a 60 FPS Forza? I will sign up for the service. 

 

Create exclusives out of thin air and try to charge me for them? Not happening. One is a quick, easy and dirty path, and one takes MS investing in something and I think they would make much more money in the long run, and "MS hate" would go away.

[terrytek]

I'm happy it's gonna be free for one year for Windows 8.1 users, but it's stupid that it's only 1 year then you have to buy it. That sucks. I thought the OS would be free the whole way, like the 8.1 upgrade.