Quinnspericy: Mod of /r/gaming el_chupacupcake pushed to step down after Zoe Quinn update.

[ZeroBreaker]

snip i cba to read all this bullshit

 

gg no re 'neutral guy'

 

 

 

 

What loopholes exactly? I would like to have them pointed out so I can fill them in for you.

 

there are none. sorry to get your hopes up ;(

[Michael McAllister]

A couple thoughts on this.  If she did trade sexual favors for positive press about her game, that's a shitty thing to do.  If the accusations against her are true, that makes her a shitty person for being disingenuous with her audience.

Even if the above is true, that does not give people the ethical justification to send her death threats, post her private photos on various sites without her permission, and, in any other form, demean her (not to be confused with criticism).  Her sexual activities are irrelevant.  Yes, if true, doing that to receive positive reviews is shitty, but that is the extent of any relevance to that.  The fact that there are people on this very forum using this as an example of 'this is what they do' type of comments is laughable.  What's the logic here?  If a handful of people from a certain gender or race do shitty things, that is indicative of the entire group?

 

While I believe that a good majority of the people that would call themselves feminists have good intentions, using such labels is ultimately a lose-lose situation.  Rather than discuss substance, people, especially MRAs, get stuck on terms or use that term as a red herring as a means to disguise their own agendas or justify ad hominem attacks.  To anyone that feels comfortable using the feminist label, I propose that discussions you have would be more fruitful by using a more encompassing term such as humanist.  If the goal is to fight for equality amongst all people, that seems like the most logical course of action.

[kaloszer]

A couple thoughts on this.  If she did trade sexual favors for positive press about her game, that's a shitty thing to do.  If the accusations against her are true, that makes her a shitty person for being disingenuous with her audience.

Even if the above is true, that does not give people the ethical justification to send her death threats, post her private photos on various sites without her permission, and, in any other form, demean her (not to be confused with criticism).  Her sexual activities are irrelevant.  Yes, if true, doing that to receive positive reviews is shitty, but that is the extent of any relevance to that.  The fact that there are people on this very forum using this as an example of 'this is what they do' type of comments is laughable.  What's the logic here?  If a handful of people from a certain gender or race do shitty things, that is indicative of the entire group?

 

While I believe that a good majority of the people that would call themselves feminists have good intentions, using such labels is ultimately a lose-lose situation.  Rather than discuss substance, people, especially MRAs, get stuck on terms or use that term as a red herring as a means to disguise their own agendas or justify ad hominem attacks.  To anyone that feels comfortable using the feminist label, I propose that discussions you have would be more fruitful by using a more encompassing term such as humanist.  If the goal is to fight for equality amongst all people, that seems like the most logical course of action.

"Private photos"

Fucking lol, they were photoshoots for porn sites.

Also, third wave feminists are all scum, no exception; It's hard to find second wave ones nowadays.

 

Also this is not about Zoe anymore, it's way deeper than that.

[Michael McAllister]

"Private photos"

Fucking lol, they were photoshoots for porn sites.

Also, third wave feminists are all scum, no exception; It's hard to find second wave ones nowadays.

 

Also this is not about Zoe anymore, it's way deeper than that.

 

 

This whole thread is about Zoe.

Secondly, if your sources are merely from 4Chan or Reddit, do better.  It's the Internet after all.

[LAwLz]

This whole thread is about Zoe.

Secondly, if your sources are merely from 4Chan or Reddit, do better.  It's the Internet after all.

Are you asking for a source that the photos are from porn sites?

 

Ehh... The photos has water marks on them which sites are from. Hell, you can even find her profile on brokendollz (her profile name is Locke). And yes it is her because you can compare the tattoos.

Apparently she gets turned on by fedoras. Her profile on Deviant Nation has been deleted but you can still find it on the waybackmachine (same profile name as on brokendollz).

I would post links, but I don't think the mods would be happy about me posting porn links here.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-facepalm snip-

 

Sigh...

 

You are persistent to a fault, I will give you that much!

 

I already told you; I am done with this issue. If you want to keep harping on pseudo facts, then be my bloody guest.

But if you cannot even respect a stated draw, don't be bitchy about it!

[Michael McAllister]

Are you asking for a source that the photos are from porn sites?

 

Ehh... The photos has water marks on them which sites are from. Hell, you can even find her profile on brokendollz (her profile name is Locke). And yes it is her because you can compare the tattoos.

Apparently she gets turned on by fedoras. Her profile on Deviant Nation has been deleted but you can still find it on the waybackmachine (same profile name as on brokendollz).

I would post links, but I don't think the mods would be happy about me posting porn links here.

 

Food for thought.  Don't you find it a bit odd that the same people who call her these things are the same people that are most likely to go to those types of websites?  I couldn't care less about her sexual choices.  They are completely irrelevant outside of the idea that she might have used her sexuality to garner positive reviews/press for her game.  If you want to critique her work in the gaming industry, then that's valid.

 

Likewise, if people find Phil Fish's mannerisms to be justification for sending him death threats or hurting his family, they are despicable human beings!  I've come across many shitty people in my lifetime, but I would never desire for them to be killed or harmed in any way (aside from ridicule for being a shithead).

[LAwLz]

Sigh...

 

You are persistent to a fault, I will give you that much!

 

I already told you; I am done with this issue. If you want to keep harping on pseudo facts, then be my bloody guest.

But if you cannot even respect a stated draw, don't be bitchy about it!

They are not pseudo facts...

Argh why do I even bother? You have already admitted to being close minded by saying no evidence will make you change your mind.

 

 

 

Food for thought.  Don't you find it a bit odd that the same people who call her these things are the same people that are most likely to go to those types of websites?  I couldn't care less about her sexual choices.  They are completely irrelevant outside of the idea that she might have used her sexuality to garner positive reviews/press for her game.  If you want to critique her work in the gaming industry, then that's valid.

 

Likewise, if people find Phil Fish's mannerisms to be justification for sending him death threats or hurting his family, they are despicable human beings!  I've come across many shitty people in my lifetime, but I would never desire for them to be killed or harmed in any way (aside from ridicule for being a shithead).

Call her what things exactly?

Also, nobody had even mentioned the photos before you brought them up. kaloszer was merely correcting a factual error in your post, and I provided the evidence you asked for.

[Michael McAllister]

Call her what things exactly?

Also, nobody had even mentioned the photos before you brought them up. kaloszer was merely correcting a factual error in your post, and I provided the evidence you asked for.

 

Go ahead and reread this thread if you need to.  Plenty of people have commented on her looks for no apparent reason.  Hey, I disagree with someone so I am going to call them "trashy" among other things.  That makes perfect sense.

[LAwLz]

Go ahead and reread this thread if you need to. Plenty of people have commented on her looks for no apparent reason. Hey, I disagree with someone so I am going to call them "trashy" among other things. That makes perfect sense.

Still not following you...

*You brought up people posting her "private photos".

*Someone else said they weren't private, but posted on porn sites.

*You wanted evidence for that.

*I posted evidence.

The only one still commenting about her looks is you. People haven't been posting her private photos. She uploaded them herself to the Internet.

[Michael McAllister]

Still not following you...

*You brought up people posting her "private photos".

*Someone else said they weren't private, but posted on porn sites.

*You wanted evidence for that.

*I posted evidence.

The only one still commenting about her looks is you. People haven't been posting her private photos. She uploaded them herself to the Internet.

 

Are you assuming she uploaded them herself, or are you basing this off of credible information?  Watermarks aren't indicators of consent.  Revenge porn is a thing.

[ZeroBreaker]

Sigh...

 

You are persistent to a fault, I will give you that much!

 

I already told you; I am done with this issue. If you want to keep harping on pseudo facts, then be my bloody guest.

But if you cannot even respect a stated draw, don't be bitchy about it!

 

How unfair is that? Point out his pseudo facts before claiming they are pseudo facts please. Thats all anyone is asking you to do. This is like the third time i am asking. And what gives you the right to call a draw, you arrogant git?

 

 

Are you assuming she uploaded them herself, or are you basing this off of credible information?  Watermarks aren't indicators of consent.  Revenge porn is a thing.

 

She uploaded them to a porn site. When talking about the pictures, the watermarks were not mentioned, only that they were being distributed. The ex did not spread them, as if he did zoe would have confirmed this to implicate him further - instead she simply blames this on the community. The watermarks indicate the content isn't owned by her, but the porn site. By that logic, all porn is eye-rape.

And who exactly said 'this is what they do' in this thread? If you hadn't ignored most of the posts in here, we are talking about the problems zoe has shown us. Not zoe's problems. Like Lawlz said - the only people bringing zoe's irrelevant personal life into this are people jumping to defend her.

 

She is a shitty person - she runs a scam in rebel jam (donations go to her paypal she uses for 'tips'), she acted in censorship on reddit (TB thread by talking to mod) and youtube (False DMCA request on mundanematt video, who her friends i.e. phil fish, sarkeesian etc. then compared to ISIS. no joke), and she blocked a jam promoting women in videogames, possibly due to competition (TFYC, who then had their indiegogo campaign halted by /V/, nonexistant fabrication of zoe and her friends).

That is not in dispute.

 

What should be discussed is what has been shown, i.e. the corruption of gaming media. As matt mentioned, conflict of interest gets people fired. We know zoe was close to naythan grayson while he promoted her game (in an article, no review). Kotaku assures us they were not sleeping together at the time, which is of no consequence. They were close. Media sites have taken your stance - 'oh look at those mysoginists and MRA's who can't take a women making games'. Conversations are either censored or hijacked by the likes of you and the fine colonel.

 

Now do you see our problem?

[LinusTech]

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

 

It's amazing to me that this is news.

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

I see the issues with a lot of other stuff - like the alleged misappropriation of funds in that campaign - but none of that has anything to do with the sex part.

 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her. Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

[kaloszer]

Holy shit linus, you just dont get it do you.

All attention is not good attention, if we were to ignore the fact that sex, money, tools are a way to get yourself recognized on a journalism website, everybody would do it, decrasing the quality even more. 

By bringing attention to it, you spread the corruption, people talk about it, people start taking reviews, opinions etc. of journalism with a dose of doubt.

Sure she'll get 2 grand in her patreon account but it's insignificant in the scale of things, even now you can go onto that patreon and check that many journalists are backing her which is kind of breach of their own ethics. (I guess you could talk about it, but still)

 

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

Oh come on, this brings nothing to discussion.

This is news because it proves that the journalism is corrupt, it's not about sex.

Too much stuff has been uncovered, Zoe is just the tip of an iceberg.

 

 

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

Yeah, nah, that's still the same thing if it were to surface. But seeing as there are no respectable female figures in journalism then there's that.

 

Polygon can do that properly from time to time: http://www.polygon.com/2013/12/11/5200922/cliff-bleszinski-next-game-first-person-arena-shooter-pc 

Full disclosure: Cliff Bleszinski's brother, Tyler Bleszinski, is the founder of Polygon sister site and Vox Media progenitor SB Nation.

 

 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her.

 

Well her reputation was already bad, now it's just nonexistant for not "indie dev clique" of hers.

 

 

 

Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

 

That's some bad thinking, hell I can even bring Hitler into this, did appeasment work for the allies ? Hell no, war happened.

But lets stay at the internets shall we ? What would happen if Adria Richards had been ingored ? She would've gone unpunished.

It might've worked for GTA back in the day, but people are sick of so called journalism and she was just the trigger to start it all.

 

 

Are you assuming she uploaded them herself, or are you basing this off of credible information?  Watermarks aren't indicators of consent.  Revenge porn is a thing.

 

Stop being a PR damage control member. SFW, pastebin

[ZeroBreaker]

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

 

It's amazing to me that this is news.

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

I see the issues with a lot of other stuff - like the alleged misappropriation of funds in that campaign - but none of that has anything to do with the sex part.

 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her. Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

 

The issue is more with game media.

 

Zoe had a relationship with a reporter for kotaku while this guy was writing about her game. There is a clear conflict of interest, and while the way the information got out was not the most ethical, it brings up a much bigger issue, specifically with online journalism. Kotaku say its ok because the reporter in question was not dating the dev at the time, but a few days after the article on her game was written. However, pictures have shown they were close before the article. When discussing this on reddit, zoe was in contact with a mod there on twitter and this mod censored a thread with thousands of posts discussing the wider issue of conflict of interest. Its actually laughable when you look at the page, just deleted comments over and over.

 

What is scary is the fact no one will discuss the issue. People are reporting that even discussing the issue at work (in an outlet like kotaku) gets heated. Neutral people like TB were harassed on their comments, so no one really wants to speak out. MundaneMatt, a small time youtube guy, got a DMCA request from Zoe on the use of a publicly available image for her game. Of course, the video was discussing how close relationships might affect journalism.

 

The whole issue of Doxxing (its said to be faked by phil and zoe due to dodgy timings) and other stuff is meaningless in the long term, just two idiots making fools of themselves.

 

The thing is, in conventional media, conflict of interest in any way, shape or form, if not reported to the boss results in termination. If a dev bought a beer for a reporter, thats one thing. If a dev had a relationship with a reporter, influencing pieces not only on the devs work but on competition for the devs work (notably game jam) its a different story. This case was not reported to the guys at kotaku until after the scandal. The defense seems to be that people are under the impression internet journalism has less integrity than mainstream journalism by nature, which is unfair to everyone who reports legitimately.

 

Put simply, everyone knows IGN sold out to publishers for money. Now imagine that, with a slightly different commodity, one could get most news websites to sell out. Because everyone has sold out, no one reports legitimately, no one reports the selling-out, and as such every person subject to this news is being misled.

 

If this discussion is buried and doesnt happen, this shit can keep on happening. I don't know about you, linus, but this is my community, and i don't want this bullshit to be something expected of internet journalism. Like internetaristocrat says - it took a century for 'old media' to become this corrupt, and its taking mere years for 'new media' to follow the same path. If we ignore it, we won't have anywhere to get unbiased news.

 

please notice me linus-senpai

[LAwLz]

Are you assuming she uploaded them herself, or are you basing this off of credible information?  Watermarks aren't indicators of consent.  Revenge porn is a thing.

Just look up her profiles on the site I mentioned earlier. These are not her private photos someone managed to steal and spread around. He willingly put them on a porn site and commented about how she had so much fun during the photo shoot and so on.

Stop trying to make her the victim. She is not.

 

 

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

 

It's amazing to me that this is news.

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

I see the issues with a lot of other stuff - like the alleged misappropriation of funds in that campaign - but none of that has anything to do with the sex part.

 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her. Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

Oh come on that's so much crap Linus. The only ones who are talking about her gender is the ones trying to defend her.

I can understand not wanting to read 10 pages of this but you should at least look up the main arguments. Nobody cares about her gender or the fact that she had sex with someone. People hate her because of her other actions like trying to shut down organizations  promoting women in gaming, skimming money, corruption in "gaming journalism" and so on.

Oh and you bet that the social justice warriors would make a big deal out of a guy getting promoted in articles (by the way it was not just articles, her "game" also got awards in one or more contests because of her relationships). They have gotten people fired for less in the past, like two people making harmless jokes to each other. It's not just about promitions though, it's also about writing bad things about stuff she dislikes, or not writing anything at all about things that can harm her reputation.

 

It's good that you see issues with the other stuff, because that is what the discussions are about. I don't think anyone in the thread has blamed her for the actual act of having sex. It's all the other things people are blaming her and sites like Kotaku for.

 

I strongly disagree with the idea that we shouldn't talk about it. You don't deal with corruption by ignoring it. Ignoring it would be the best thing to do for the ones being accused. If you noticed that Slick had put a donation button on the site and all videos, which was linked to his personal PayPal account wouldn't you say "hey, that's not okay. Let's tell everyone that their donations went straight to Slick and not LinusMediaGroup"? This is a very similar situation but you're saying "hey, let's not talk about it okay? It's best if we just let her continue manipulating the media and getting money that is suppose to go somewhere else. Let's ignore the other things she had done as well".

A lot of good things has come out of this. The campaign held by TFYC has gotten a lot more money now that they have exposure (Zoe doesn't like them so nobody was reporting on it before).

[The_Strict_Nein]

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

 

It's amazing to me that this is news.

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

I see the issues with a lot of other stuff - like the alleged misappropriation of funds in that campaign - but none of that has anything to do with the sex part.

 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her. Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

 

I have to agree with other posters, I think you're completely off base with that first line.

 

It's an issue of censorship and corruption.

[kaloszer]

I guess there's not really much in the OP post so I might aswell post a pasta from 4chan threads

 

 

IF YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, WATCH THESE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmy5OKg6lo

 

CURRENT HAPPENINGS:

 

Yellow journalism Mk 2 -http://www.donotlink.com/b9hw

 

Based TFYC

 

Karen Straughan talks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuFSMi5G3R4

 

IndieGoGo campaign -https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-fine-young-capitalists--2/x/8485163

 

Screenshot hacked IndieGoGo -http://i.imgur.com/EKNGSDJ.jpg

(btw no fiddles and fries, if the project doesn't get funded we get our money back)

 

Censorship on Reddit -http://imgur.com/a/f4WDf

 

More Conflict of Interest/Nepotism - http://imgur.com/a/bqhRY

http://imgur.com/a/x0NpT

http://i.imgur.com/Wg6iLvL.jpg 

 

Wolf Wozniak PAX Passes - http://i.imgur.com/cr6tfHr.jpg

Ex-boyfriend speaks - http://www.reddit.com/user/qrios

 

To Whom it May Concern -

 

- - - - - -

 

INFO:

 

The shit that started it all -http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/

 

Why the media is silent -http://i.imgur.com/qTGiVcE.jpg 

 

Exposing corruption -http://i.imgur.com/blg9eNM.jpg 

 

Operation Payoff -http://i.imgur.com/ZBNMfJ6.jpg 

 

Female Indie Dev’s Perspective -http://gabrielaknight.wordpress.com/

 

K.C. Archive -http://imgur.com/a/m1FDm

 

List of allies -http://i.imgur.com/9aSiY9e.jpg 

 

Advertiser contact info -http://pastebin.com/3Dt0DUHc 

 

Here's something interesting, potentially debunking Totillo's defense of Grayson -http://i.imgur.com/I63abCw.jpg 

 

- - - - - -

 

MISC:

 

Official soundtrack:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjN8qonwEtowetQWBPh0IUhPFBwZnmDOh

 

Spread the following post if you have a tumblr

 

http://zackenen.tumblr.com/post/95752072077/more-readable-version-can-be-found-here

 

The Wizardchan Raid

 

 

[Misanthrope]

I think hearing about how someone had sex with someone else is mostly interesting to virgins.

It's amazing to me that this is news.

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

I see the issues with a lot of other stuff - like the alleged misappropriation of funds in that campaign - but none of that has anything to do with the sex part.

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that if she's a crummy person, this campaign isn't going to punish her. Infamy is still fame and can be leveraged positively in the future for her... Ignoring things/people is the best way to make them go away.

No. Sex with press members it's a big no no. In fact all work related Sex between mutually benefiting companies. Hopefully you told this to Slick because I'd hate to see a Slick and Fractal Josh scandal of sorts

[LAwLz]

No. Sex with press members it's a big no no. In fact all work related Sex between mutually benefiting companies. Hopefully you told this to Slick because I'd hate to see a Slick and Fractal Josh scandal of sorts

I think it would be fine for Josh and Slick to get it on if they want, as long as they are transparent about it and doesn't let it and doesn't like it cloud their professions.

If they started having affairs behind Linus' back and all of a sudden we got a ton of positive coverage of Fractal, and none or only bad coverage of other case manufacturers then we would have a problem. It would be even worse if Josh also did the same with all other case reviewers.

[Misanthrope]

I think it would be fine for Josh and Slick to get it on if they want, as long as they are transparent about it and doesn't let it and doesn't like it cloud their professions.

If they started having affairs behind Linus' back and all of a sudden we got a ton of positive coverage of Fractal, and none or only bad coverage of other case manufacturers then we would have a problem. It would be even worse if Josh also did the same with all other case reviewers.

 

Yep yep, but I think we can all agree it would all be immediately and permanently forgiven if they tape it and upload it to dailymotion though.

[Scionyde]

Are you assuming she uploaded them herself, or are you basing this off of credible information?  Watermarks aren't indicators of consent.  Revenge porn is a thing.

 

 

Don't think so.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-pointless rage-

 

<yawn>

 

<look at wrist watch>

 

Are you done?

 

Now you are talking to Linus, who heads the entire LMG, in case you did not know. Not only does he understand the business side of things, he also knows how the internet, as a society, functions. And you are giving him flak for it... there is something wrong here.

 

If you want to find me calling out the pseudo facts, then please read back on the thread. There is more than plenty of cases.

 

Now, before you blow any more steam, I am going to leave you to celebrate that imaginary victory of yours, Sir Narcissus.

 

And @LinusTech, this kind of discussion never ends well. I have explained what you said, with extra details on top. I have even elaborated on other issues. Then I get called a "Zoe supporter", by the people who refuse to read what I said. It would be nice of you to lock this thread before it truly gets out of hand.

[Scionyde]

 

Now you are talking to Linus, who heads the entire LMG, in case you did not know. Not only does he understand the business side of things, he also knows how the internet, as a society, functions. And you are giving him flak for it... there is something wrong here.

 

Doesn't mean he's infallible. Judging by his post, I think he's under the mistaken impression that anybody being critical of Zoe Quinn is just preoccupied with 'slut-shaming'. And sure, I'm certain there are misogynists who are interested in just that. But as posts like those written by ZeroBreaker demonstrate, there is a wider issue here that is trying to be discussed.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Doesn't mean he's infallible. Judging by his post, I think he's under the mistaken impression that anybody being critical of Zoe Quinn is just preoccupied with 'slut-shaming'. And sure, I'm certain there are misogynists who are interested in just that. But as posts like those written by ZeroBreaker demonstrate, there is a wider issue here that is trying to be discussed.

 

So let's look at something here...

 

If it was two bro-hams who knew each other and bro A who's had beers with bro B promoted him in an article no one would bat an eye...

 

What Linus (and @bogus and myself) is saying, is that the "deeper" issue is not exclusive to anything. At the end of the day, this is indeed slut-shaming.