Quinnspericy: Mod of /r/gaming el_chupacupcake pushed to step down after Zoe Quinn update.

[Misanthrope]

Like I said, that digital mentality is not going to help anyone. You are making quite out there assumptions yourself.

 

Because I disagree with your approach of the problem, that automatically makes me a Quinn supporter? No It doesn't; I have my own Issues with her side of the story. What I am against, however, is instant ad hominem upon the news breaking, before any solid evidence is out on the table.

 

You can stop right there: there is solid evidence on the table:

 

http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

 

Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship.

 

Kotaku officially confirms that one of the major allegations is true: She did slept with him. They merely try to squeeze out of it with the timeline claiming that they were just "professional acquaintances" before when he wrote an article for her game and that they didn't start a "romantic relationship" until afterwards, yet they admit the timeline was so damn close (March 31st vs early April) that it doesn't really matter if it was explicitly trading sex for an article or not there was a very clear bias and conflict of interests. 

You can claim all other "evidence" is not proof, you can discredit all other sources, you can do whatever. This is official confirmation that there has been impropriety that Kotaku is trying to sidestep and minimize but still kinda throwing him under the bus (because if more shit comes up they can push him to resign to save face) by publicly stating it is not just a rumor or an ex lover's quarrel but it's actually true. 

 

Sorry but I refuse to read the rest of whatever you had to say until you acknowledge that this is not just bullshit and rumors and that this very much is true and most likely all other allegations are at least partially true.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-snip- 

 

With you ignoring my points and running around in circles, there is nothing that I can say for you to actually understand the situation, so I am done with this discussion. You can bring as much of this supposed "evidence" as you wish; you are not going to change my mind.

[Misanthrope]

With you ignoring my points and running around in circles, there is nothing that I can say for you to actually understand the situation, so I am done with this discussion. You can bring as much of this supposed "evidence" as you wish; you are not going to change my mind.

Nope and I see no reason to: Journalists, even if they are just for videogames, must be held to a much higher standard because their profession demands trust from the public otherwise all of their criticisms are automatically invalid. I don't fucking care how you or Jim Sterling or ANYONE rationalizes this, Journalists can NEVER sleep with the people they're covering. There's a line and that is the motherfucking line. You cannot cross it and you cannot incite someone to cross it for you, period.

[Yoinkerman]

D:  my Linus and Slick master plan is RUINED D:

 

Nope and I see no reason to: Journalists, even if they are just for videogames, must be held to a much higher standard because their profession demands trust from the public otherwise all of their criticisms are automatically invalid. I don't fucking care how you or Jim Sterling or ANYOMNE rationalizes this, Journalist can NEVER sleep with the people they're covering. There's a line and that is the motherfucking line. You cannot cross it and you cannot incite someone to cross it for you, period.

[ZeroBreaker]

snip

Fucking hell mate, you can't be this thickheaded. WATCH THE VIDEO and READ THE BLOG and then say that there is no proof. The video shows clearly where every piece of information comes from, and while im unsure if the links are in the description the articles do exist and a quick google of everything in his two videos shows everything is backed by facts. Fuck off with your shitty attitude when you can't even be bothered to watch the damn video, or are you sincerely that thickheaded that you could not see the evidence? Its pointed out to you clear as day!

The facebook messages are true - they were proven to be true in the blog with a video, and zoe does not deny them (because she fucking can't!) but instead suggests the blogs intent is to shame her, rather than expose her. So theres that.

The paypal shit is true - backed up by the fact many people caught on to this and reported it to others, and they show exactly what the problem is in the video. So her personal paypal, where she accepts tips, is also where she accepts fundraiser money. So theres that.

The ddos shit is bullshit - forget cloudflare, phil fish hosting fez files and personal information on his unrelated website? /V/? Head mod of fucking 4chan? fucking bullshit. Also, as several people have pointed out, the file was available practically immediately after the 'attack' - 1.5GB of information, compressed and organised? I don't fucking think so. From what we can see, the only logical explanation is that it was organised by the two of them. So theres that.

 

I don't give a flying fuck what TB says or thinks on this issue. If hes in the same mindset as you, he is in the wrong. This has been going on behind peoples backs. Unless it is exposed and known, it will CONTINUE to happen behind people's backs. Kotaku can get away with it, Zoe can get away with it, Phil fucking fish can get away with it. Why the fuck would you want them to get away with it? Mate please get a better argument instead of repeating the same bullshit over and over again.

 

 

With you ignoring my points and running around in circles, there is nothing that I can say for you to actually understand the situation, so I am done with this discussion. You can bring as much of this supposed "evidence" as you wish; you are not going to change my mind.

 

There we go. Fucking hell, took you a long time to realise you have no fucking argument to begin with.

[LAwLz]

You can bring as much of this supposed "evidence" as you wish; you are not going to change my mind.

I think it's now official. Social justice as become a religion...

Although as JonTron said, "it's not social justice if you become the new bully" so I guess we are going to have to call this "pseudo social justice".

 

As soon as you go "you can show me as much evidence as you want, I still won't change my mind which is purely based on faith", you lose all credibility regarding the subject in my mind.

[Mooshi]

Apparently, to get back at Quinn out of spite, /v/ donated cash and donated enough to design a character for a game. Said character was an average gamer girl that was dubbed the daughter of /v/.

While these scumbags were trying to frame /v/ so terribly, the actual /v/ did something positive. How is that for irony. Only a fool would still defend these trashy individuals like Zoe.

http://i.imgur.com/E7XZaKz.png

[Misanthrope]

It's a sad day when we put so much faith in indies that we allowed it to come to this point. The worst part is that social justice causes can be legitimate but this is the exact same Shit that happens in left politics that turns people away, yet in politics there's a clear purpose: divide and conquer. Here its done just for epennis and petty fucking cash

[aEi1aesainee2]

ep_chupa is a sellout and should be ashamed for the crap he's doing to r/gaming. Its all on Reddit admins if they force him out however, they're the only ones who can delist gaming and send a strong message.

 

Curiously, Kotaku hasn't said a word on this, and their sister site Jezebel who loves to talk about feminism is surprisingly quiet.

 

"Feminists" and "SJWs" setting back anything positive ever done for women and gaming, one crisis at a time. 

http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

 

They are mostly quiet for good reasons I think.

[aEi1aesainee2]

 

You can stop right there: there is solid evidence on the table:

 

http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

 

 

Kotaku officially confirms that one of the major allegations is true: She did slept with him. They merely try to squeeze out of it with the timeline claiming that they were just "professional acquaintances" before when he wrote an article for her game and that they didn't start a "romantic relationship" until afterwards, yet they admit the timeline was so damn close (March 31st vs early April) that it doesn't really matter if it was explicitly trading sex for an article or not there was a very clear bias and conflict of interests. 

You can claim all other "evidence" is not proof, you can discredit all other sources, you can do whatever. This is official confirmation that there has been impropriety that Kotaku is trying to sidestep and minimize but still kinda throwing him under the bus (because if more shit comes up they can push him to resign to save face) by publicly stating it is not just a rumor or an ex lover's quarrel but it's actually true. 

 

Sorry but I refuse to read the rest of whatever you had to say until you acknowledge that this is not just bullshit and rumors and that this very much is true and most likely all other allegations are at least partially true.

 

How can you say the allegations are true when the post of Totilo you link to clearly says that Grayson did not write any article about Zoe Quinn ?

[Misanthrope]

She's name dropped along with her game in relation to another article regarding a Game Reality TV show:

http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284

There has been plenty of coverage for her game in the past in Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/search?q=depression+quest

On a decent traffic volume site like Kotaku, that's more than enough to create a real benefit for a smaller indie "developer" like her. That along with the fact that she started sleeping with him (that we know of, she could have been having similar or different but completely inappropriate contact with more gaming press members that we just don't have solid evidence for, for example the fact that she offered Jim Sterling job as voice talent and now he's bullshitting us about how "sex" with one's work subjects is not a bad thing automatically) tells me that a site with already dubious credibility like Kotaku was confirmed bias as I said.

[LAwLz]

She's name dropped along with her game in relation to another article regarding a Game Reality TV show:

http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284

There has been plenty of coverage for her game in the past in Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/search?q=depression+quest

On a decent traffic volume site like Kotaku, that's more than enough to create a real benefit for a smaller indie "developer" like her. That along with the fact that she started sleeping with him (that we know of, she could have been having similar or different but completely inappropriate contact with more gaming press members that we just don't have solid evidence for, for example the fact that she offered Jim Sterling job as voice talent and now he's bullshitting us about how "sex" with one's work subjects is not a bad thing automatically) tells me that a site with already dubious credibility like Kotaku was confirmed bias as I said.

All the stuff about the "indie game reality tv show that went to hell" was posted the same day as she started her Rebel_Jam scam.

Why do I call it a scam? Because all the donations that people think goes to Rebel Jam (a game jam which has no date, location or any other info regarding it posted) goes straight to Quinn's personal PayPal account.

Even IF she in the end decides to host Rebel Jam she has no way of telling how much of the money she has gotten actually belongs to her, and how much belongs to the Rebel Jam event.

 

So yeah, I don't think it's a coincident.

 

 

Edit: I think it's hilarious and sad that some "feminists" are saying TFYC shouldn't accept donations from 4chan. Apparently it's misogynistic to try to give woman a chance to make games.

I think that "and the mask slips again" comment illustrates something I touched upon before (the sentence that starts with "The only somewhat mainstream game that caters to that side of me is Tera").

Ariel Connor sees the comment "Please consider rethinking your priorities you selfish, despicable cunt" as being an attack against women, and not an attack against her as a person (she was talking about the "we aren't misogynists" "mask" slipping off). The reason for this is because the majority of her identity is that she is a woman, so she sees any attack against her as being an attack against women.

I doubt that more than a handful of people on 4chan hate women. What they hate are horrible, manipulative lying people who piss on their hobby and call them names, and sometimes those people just happens to be women.

 

Sorry for adding something you might disagree with after you liked my post Misanthrope.

 

On a side note, Vivan James is a real qt 3.14

[ZeroBreaker]

How can you say the allegations are true when the post of Totilo you link to clearly says that Grayson did not write any article about Zoe Quinn ?

 

Check out the ex's blog. The messages regarding the reporter tell us that she started seeing him around when they went to vegas. Checking the dates, and images on the day of the event, we know the reporter was with her, and she herself admitted she slept with him during this period. The article on game jam criticising it was written while the reporter was at vegas, and zoe's rebel jam was started the same day. It's either an intentional cover up or the reporter lying to his boss, because the evidence is there.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Well then...

 

I am now just sitting back, drinking a nice cup of iced tea, and watching the rest of society lose their minds over a silly dramafest.

[ZeroBreaker]

Well then...

 

I am now just sitting back, drinking a nice cup of iced tea, and watching the rest of society lost their minds over a silly dramafest.

 

Wow mate. So the fact that this woman is receiving money into her personal account for rebel jam (fact), she is sleeping with reporters WHILE they are reporting on her (fact), and she is in contact with at least one moderator of reddit who then MASSIVELY censored the chat about her scandal (fact) doesn't concern you at all?

This is about the WHOLE FUCKING COMMUNITY. Not just some small tier chan site, not just the readers of kotaku, not just the poor sods who donated to rebel jam. We were all fucked over in one way or another by this bitch, and we should just ignore her and let her do what shes doing?

I think you really should just stop commenting alltogether, you clearly are having trouble with understanding this whole issue.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Wow mate. So the fact that this woman is receiving money into her personal account for rebel jam (fact), she is sleeping with reporters WHILE they are reporting on her (fact), and she is in contact with at least one moderator of reddit who then MASSIVELY censored the chat about her scandal (fact) doesn't concern you at all?

This is about the WHOLE FUCKING COMMUNITY. Not just some small tier chan site, not just the readers of kotaku, not just the poor sods who donated to rebel jam. We were all fucked over in one way or another by this bitch, and we should just ignore her and let her do what shes doing?

I think you really should just stop commenting alltogether, you clearly are having trouble with understanding this whole issue.

 

If a person is not even allowed to speak their mind about the issue, because it does not follow some mob mentality, then who is the SJW now? Don't be a blatant hypocrite, and actually READ what I had to say.

[ZeroBreaker]

If a person is not even allowed to speak their mind about the issue, because it does not follow some mob mentality, then who is the SJW now? Don't be a blatant hypocrite, and actually READ what I had to say.

 

Funnily enough, i read and proved wrong your point - that there was no evidence - and you first ignored, and then simply didnt reply. If you are refusing to accept the facts, that's completely different from the facts not being there in the first place.

Your other point, about letting it die down, was stupid - it would allow zoe and the reporters to get away with this behaviour that undermines the community as a whole. We aren't three nerds on the internet who like games too much, we number in our thousands in kotaku's readerbase alone and these people are profiting (zoe personally with rebel jam) from our ignorance. By ignoring it even more, they will stop, right? Fucking hell mate, like i said. Come back with a proper understanding of this issue, or your comments are absolute fluff.

[Mooshi]

All the stuff about the "indie game reality tv show that went to hell" was posted the same day as she started her Rebel_Jam scam.

Why do I call it a scam? Because all the donations that people think goes to Rebel Jam (a game jam which has no date, location or any other info regarding it posted) goes straight to Quinn's personal PayPal account.

Even IF she in the end decides to host Rebel Jam she has no way of telling how much of the money she has gotten actually belongs to her, and how much belongs to the Rebel Jam event.

 

So yeah, I don't think it's a coincident.

 

 

Edit: I think it's hilarious and sad that some "feminists" are saying TFYC shouldn't accept donations from 4chan. Apparently it's misogynistic to try to give woman a chance to make games.

I think that "and the mask slips again" comment illustrates something I touched upon before (the sentence that starts with "The only somewhat mainstream game that caters to that side of me is Tera").

Ariel Connor sees the comment "Please consider rethinking your priorities you selfish, despicable cunt" as being an attack against women, and not an attack against her as a person (she was talking about the "we aren't misogynists" "mask" slipping off). The reason for this is because the majority of her identity is that she is a woman, so she sees any attack against her as being an attack against women.

I doubt that more than a handful of people on 4chan hate women. What they hate are horrible, manipulative lying people who piss on their hobby and call them names, and sometimes those people just happens to be women.

 

Sorry for adding something you might disagree with after you liked my post Misanthrope.

 

On a side note, Vivan James is a real qt 3.14

Your edit is something I wanted to get out, but I am away from my pc and using a tablet..I hate typing on the things. She is p. cute and I think it's great 4chan is making these loonies appear more mental than they already were.

 

[mrthuvi]

wow the TFYC page was hacked today. Retaliation from Zoe camp?

 

 

What kind of asshole hack a charity?

[Mooshi]

wow the TFYC page was hacked today. Retaliation from Zoe camp?

 

 

What kind of asshole hack a charity?

Capital 'v'...It can't be anymore obvious its a fraud from Zoe's disgusting camp of assholes.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Funnily enough, i read and proved wrong your point - that there was no evidence - and you first ignored, and then simply didnt reply. If you are refusing to accept the facts, that's completely different from the facts not being there in the first place.

Your other point, about letting it die down, was stupid - it would allow zoe and the reporters to get away with this behaviour that undermines the community as a whole. We aren't three nerds on the internet who like games too much, we number in our thousands in kotaku's readerbase alone and these people are profiting (zoe personally with rebel jam) from our ignorance. By ignoring it even more, they will stop, right? Fucking hell mate, like i said. Come back with a proper understanding of this issue, or your comments are absolute fluff.

 

Please define "proper understanding"; is it based on what some vocal group thinks, or is it based on ourselves actually seeing through the sheep skin?

 

I have already talked about this, Albert Einstein! If you base your facts from arbitrary sources, THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM OBJECTIVE. It is hearsay more than anything else. Notice how that Kotaku article actually explains things contradicting your beliefs, but you quickly jump on the "Quinn supporter" assumption. I'm much more concerned about the response to the article that the article itself. That was seriously pathetic!

 

For the love of god, this has been mentioned a million times already; the more you "speak out", the more fuel gets added to the fire, and the more that they use it to prove themselves. If you ignore them, they will lose motivation for their actions (assuming malicious intent, which you have failed to prove), and find something else. Did you miss this? Do I have to repeat this YET AGAIN??

 

On a general note, you are gravely underestimating how difficult it is for ALL of these actions to occur. And yet you all jump to accusing someone believing it to be a piece of cake action.

 

You cannot go around dictating who is right or wrong. TotalBiscuit even talked about this in his youtube podcasts; He is not even able to talk about feminism, as there are too many crazy people "who needs something to masturbate to". There is also Angry Joe who, like me, believes that the general "feminism" controversy is blown horribly out of proportion ["Top 10 Gaming Controversies of 2013!", number 3, 24:31]. I have a perspective that is different from the apparent majority; deal with it!

 

And you call ME thick-headed... what a joke!

[ZeroBreaker]

snip

 

Ok. So lets see here. You think the kotaku article, which claims zoe and nathan were not in a relationship at the time, and says everything is now ok because nathan has admitted it, is a better source than facebook conversations and article dates which can be proven true? OK. clearly i am not going to be able to change your mind.

But seriously, you don't understand the Issue. We are being misled about the neutrality of reporters. If people do not know about this, they will be misled about the content's bias. Kotaku and whoever it's staff are sleeping with will then profit from misleading us. This is not an ideal situation. It can be combated by the community knowing this issue and understanding how it has occured.

By ignoring it, you allow her to get away with scamming people (again, her rebel jam donations go straight to her personal paypal which she accepts tips out of. No dates, times, places. Clear scam) and having an unfair influence in the content of a news site. Gaming news, yes, but a fucking NEWS SITE. People go for NEWS. News cannot be biased or it is propaganda (yes, check the definition).

So again. Fuck off unless you have a proper understanding of events. i.e. you have reviewed the evidence, and come up with an opinion based on your reviewing of this evidence.

[ionbasa]

Funnily enough, i read and proved wrong your point - that there was no evidence - and you first ignored, and then simply didnt reply. If you are refusing to accept the facts, that's completely different from the facts not being there in the first place.

Your other point, about letting it die down, was stupid - it would allow zoe and the reporters to get away with this behaviour that undermines the community as a whole. We aren't three nerds on the internet who like games too much, we number in our thousands in kotaku's readerbase alone and these people are profiting (zoe personally with rebel jam) from our ignorance. By ignoring it even more, they will stop, right? Fucking hell mate, like i said. Come back with a proper understanding of this issue, or your comments are absolute fluff.

I have a suggestion, for everyone. Maybe instead of talking about the situation in regards to facts, non-facts, and sudo-facts. We instead talk about the signal to noise ratio. In this case the SNR is very low. There is a ton of 'background chatter' about the issue.

 

That being said, I believe what Colonel_Gerdauf was trying to point out was that there is a lot of gossip surrounding the story, and some of the circumstances are a little strange at the moment. Neither of these are helping with the truth coming out completely about the situation.

 

 The best thing I can relate this to is the Monica Lewinsky scandal with Bill Clinton. I don't want to talk about Bill Clinton, because if I do, my post is going by a mini-essay in length. But as a capable human being, I suggest you read about the scandal and draw parallels on how both stories are similar.

 

I'm going to flat out state my opinion so you don't misunderstand my comment: I do think that Quinn is in the wrong involving the TotalBiscuit censorship, censorship against negative reviews, bribing, and other related events. But the media, SJWs, and the social community are to blame as well. For a lack of a better analogy: it is like a high school food fight in the cafeteria, everyone becomes involved one way, or another. For now, it might be better to take a step back, watch everything pan out, rather than kindle the fire (so to speak).

[bogus]

I've seen the video in the first post, but I have not read the blog where some dude crys publicly that he had a slut for girlfriend.

I don't get what the outrage is all about. I don't know:
- if it's because a girl fucked around to get her way;
- if it's because some dudes fucked a girl to get their way;
- if it's because a girl made a dubious Indiegogo campaign;
- if it's because of the, so called "New Media", business model is a piece of shit model that incentivates the publishing of biased information - just like the old media;
- if it's because tech journalism is in fact just like any other kind of journalism in any media - that might surprise some maybe;
- of if it's simply because everyone has an agenda.

Because what I've seen here is nothing new. It's not the first time it happened, it won't be the last - and surely happens every day - hell it might be happening right now as you read this sentence.

Let me tell you this: whoring is known as one of the oldest profession in the human history. Both literally and metaphorically. People do everything to get their way.

If this girl - definatly a shitty human being - is so small and cheap that her only way to influence others is by fucking around, is not LESS WRONG then a huge company that produces AAA tittles gifting or financially influence tech journalists, both directly and through advertising, to get their way. That was her way of doing it, because she is small. If she made millions a year, I doubt she would make the effort of fucking someone when she could just write them a fat check.

If somehow, you find attrocious the act of using human relationships and emotions as a trade coin - then my friends, you are naive as fuck.

tl;dr: I don't get why people get upset that a slut influences tech journalists by fucking, and are fine that huge corporations influence tech journalists with money. IMO she fucks tech journalists in the hope to get positive media coverage, tech journalists get to fuck a cunt and writte bullshit articles that give them views in the hope of getting to fuck her again - is the same thing has: NVIDIA gifting shields/AMD delivering gifts in their press conferences in the hope to get positive media coverage, and tech journalists get free gifts and writte bullshit articles that get them views in the hope of getting more gifts.

When the actual problem is that anyone can be a tech journalist, and most of them don't even know the ethical side of what should be some sort of noble profession - why? Because it's easy to writte content, and the new media business model is based on corruption - you need to writte articles that give you money - either through advertising(views)/paid articles/press kit gifting/etc. It's a business model that works for them, not for the consumer.

So this is the usual circle jerking. You focus on a slut, when the problem is in the tech journalism ethics and business model. In few weeks this will be forgotten, like everything else on the internet - and it will keep happening.

PS: The same goes for crowdfunding - it happened and will keep happening to Indiegogo and Kickstarter as long as they receive of CUT FROM THE CROWFUNDING CAMPAIGN - force them to only get a cut of the ACTUAL PRODUCT/SERVICE SALES and you will see if there is going to be more bullshit campaigns that end up in nothing, or actual successfull products/services. Because ONLY THEN it's going to be in their interest to actually show a real/doable product/service. Else they just don't care and do the best avoid PR nightmares - just like this one. Again a business model that works for them, and not for the consumer.

Is this wrong? FUCK NO. They build a business model that works and suits them! They are free to do it as long as it's within the law. It's up to the consumer to choose if they support it or not. Everyone is fine with both situations - so why care about this particular one?

Attention: I'm not saying every tech journalist is unethical - I say that their business model welcomes unethical behavior.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-sinp-

 

My previous posts has debunked everything you said here. Do you need glasses, sir, or is your IQ below 70?

 

You continue to BLINDLY IGNORE my arguments, and you continue to REPEAT THE EXACT SAME STATEMENTS of spite against Zoe, which i will say once more, is CURRENTLY UNFOUNDED. Take a close look at what you are doing, before you throw out accusations like a blind monkey.

 

Just so you will be happy about it, I DID read the citations. Did it change my point? Not really. If anything, it has proven my original suspicion of this being a wide-scale catfight. Listen, there are faults in Zoe's reasoning, I get it (again, I have mentioned this from the get-go, but you willingly bypassed it), but the other side of the argument is EQUALLY GUILTY of this same problem. So unless you actually bring me some formal papers to prove the controversy, your arguments are nothing more than empty vitriol. 

 

-snip-

 

Thank you for elaborating on what I said. That is my point, there is too much bickering from both sides to draw the truth out. Right now, it is a very messy stalemate. Do I support Quinn? Absolutely not! Does "her ex" and the hate army get a green pass for this? BLOODY HELL NO!

 

-snip-

 

You have perfectly explained how these "anti-Quinn", "anti-Sarkeesian" or whatever, arguments do not hold any ground at all.