Jump to content

YouTube Embraces AV1... But it Might Kill Your Battery

Nimoy007

Summary

With increased >FHD content becoming more common, YouTube will be shifting to the AV1 codec and away from H264. This could be a problem for viewers with older devices that don't have baked in hardware acceleration for AV1, leading to an increase in processing power required for viewing and increased battery drain.

 

Quotes

Quote

 

  • Google has rolled out support for a new AV1 decoder to many Android devices, but apps have to specifically declare that they want to use the new feature.
  •  YouTube has opted to use the new decoder by default, and some users are concerned about battery ramifications due to lack of hardware acceleration support.

 

My thoughts

This could be a major issue for folks with older devices and may become a benchmark variable to watch for in phone reviews that include battery life tests. On the other hand, this is nothing new. YouTube hasn't been kind on older devices in the past, which is unsurprising given the demands video streaming puts on a device. Consumers should consider their streaming habits when buying especially dated used phones, tablets, streaming boxes and smart TVs.

 

Sources

https://www.androidpolice.com/youtube-google-av1-codec-android-video/

Engineer, electronics enthusiast, maker. My devices/tech:

Desktop (Main): R7-7800X3D/EVGA FTW3 RTX 3090/32" Curved QLED monitor

Desktop (HTPC): Ryzen 3-3200G/RX 580

Handheld: ASUS ROG Ally Z1 Extreme

Laptop: ASUS ROG Strix G15 Advantage

VR: Quest 2

Phone: Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra

Dev Boards: TI MSP430/Arduino Uno/Raspberry Pi 4/esp32

Sound: Sony WH-1000XM4, HyperX Quadcast

Camera: Sony a6300 w/ 18-135mm kit lens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm interested to see some example devices and dates that don't support AV1.

 

I would assume it's been standard on all new chipsets for one or two years, which would leave a vast majority unsupported?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, whispous said:

I'm interested to see some example devices and dates that don't support AV1.

 

I would assume it's been standard on all new chipsets for one or two years, which would leave a vast majority unsupported?

Almost no devices support AV1 before Android 14. Pretty much any device made before 2022, will not.

https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/01/12/samsung-exynos-2100-announced-today-with-significant-upgrades-and-a-built-in-5g-modem/

https://www.kimovil.com/en/list-smartphones-by-processor-group/exynos-2100

 

So Galaxy 21+ or later using it(non-US models), and not the snapdragon 888(which is the US/CANADA model.) 

 

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/smartphones/snapdragon-8-series-mobile-platforms/snapdragon-888-5g-mobile-platform , does not.

 

The  Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 supports AV1, which was released in November 2022, and is two generations newer than the 888. 

 

 

https://www.broadcom.com/products/broadband/set-top-box/bcm7218x

This is a STB chipset, not a phone chipset, so most likely will be seen in ISP's cheap STB's and some smartTV's

 

Basically, the answer is going to be "if you want this feature, do your homework."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Almost no devices support AV1 before Android 14. Pretty much any device made before 2022, will not.

While they may not support hardware AV1 decoding, as long as they have Android 12 or higher, they should have native software decoding for AV1, no? At least that's what I'm getting from the article.

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700x / GPU: Asus Radeon RX 6750XT OC 12GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB DDR4-3200
MOBO: MSI B450m Gaming Plus / NVME: Corsair MP510 240GB / Case: TT Core v21 / PSU: Seasonic 750W / OS: Win 10 Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

They should have native software decoding for AV1, no?

That's the problem. Software decode is intensive.

Engineer, electronics enthusiast, maker. My devices/tech:

Desktop (Main): R7-7800X3D/EVGA FTW3 RTX 3090/32" Curved QLED monitor

Desktop (HTPC): Ryzen 3-3200G/RX 580

Handheld: ASUS ROG Ally Z1 Extreme

Laptop: ASUS ROG Strix G15 Advantage

VR: Quest 2

Phone: Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra

Dev Boards: TI MSP430/Arduino Uno/Raspberry Pi 4/esp32

Sound: Sony WH-1000XM4, HyperX Quadcast

Camera: Sony a6300 w/ 18-135mm kit lens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The  Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 supports AV1

Talk about close shave.

image.thumb.png.153809328b6ae1648ae8d0f5663d3225.png

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/smartphones/snapdragon-8-series-mobile-platforms/snapdragon-8-gen-2-mobile-platform

Press quote to get a response from someone! | Check people's edited posts! | Be specific! | Trans Rights

I am human. I'm scared of the dark, and I get toothaches. My name is Frill. Don't pretend not to see me. I was born from the two of you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just phones and tablets, PCs don't have hardware AV1 decoding before Nvidia 30 series, AMD Navi 2X (RX 6000 series) and Intel 11th gen. Desktops wouldn't be bothered much but laptops will face the same problem.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, da na said:

Anything HEVC is stupid hard on hw that lacks decoding acceleration. Hope h.254/5 will still be an option, but very understandable why YouTube would go this direction.

I don't think HEVC is used much or at all on yourtube. Licensing issues mostly. 

 

Youtube seems to mostly use VP9 for lower view videos, and AV1 for higer view count videos these days. Some h.264 is out there, but pretty rare it seems. 

 

AV1 isn't that hard on CPU decoding. Still worse than hardware, but a 1st gen i3 mobile can decode av1 at 1080p30, so its not that big of CPU hog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

It's not just phones and tablets, PCs don't have hardware AV1 decoding before Nvidia 30 series, AMD Navi 2X (RX 6000 series) and Intel 11th gen. Desktops wouldn't be bothered much but laptops will face the same problem.

Nvidia Ampere:

Desktop: Sep 2020

Laptop: Jan 2021

 

AMD RDNA2:

Desktop dGPU: Nov 2020

Laptop dGPU: Mar 2021

APU: Jan 2022

 

Intel:

Desktop iGPU: Mar 2021 (11th gen Rocket Lake)

Laptop iGPU: Sep 2020 (11th gen Tiger Lake)

Desktop dGPU: Mar 2022 (Arc) - I'm ignoring the OEM only card they made just before Arc.

 

Basically earliest hardware AV1 decode support was late 2020, about 3.5 years ago. Amongst the early implementations are Intel iGPUs, which will make up a good chunk of PCs out there. If you were to expand it to all product categories, we're pretty much covered with new releases for over 2 years, with a good proportion going back further.

Gaming system: R7 7800X3D, Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming Wifi, Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE ARGB, Corsair Vengeance 2x 32GB 6000C30, RTX 4070, MSI MPG A850G, Fractal Design North, Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Productivity system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, 64GB ram (mixed), RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, random 1080p + 720p displays.
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Nimoy007 said:

YouTube has opted to use the new decoder by default, and some users are concerned about battery ramifications due to lack of hardware acceleration support.

Just because it is the default doesn't necessarily mean there isn't another codec source available. Already lots of videos are VP9 and H264 and which is played is picked via device hardware support.

 

Devices that don't have AV1 won't necessarily be playing AV1 source and software decoding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good though, need to move on both sw and hw wise. YT compression sucks so bad anything with detail, a lot of changes and fast movements. So bad. Also lack of 120fps even, come on.

| Ryzen 7 7800X3D | AM5 B650 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 32GB 6000MHz C30 | Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 7900 XTX | Samsung 990 PRO 1TB with heatsink | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 | Seasonic Focus GX-850 | Lian Li Lanccool III | Mousepad: Skypad 3.0 XL / Zowie GTF-X | Mouse: Zowie S1-C | Keyboard: Ducky One 3 TKL (Cherry MX-Speed-Silver)Beyerdynamic MMX 300 (2nd Gen) | Acer XV272U | OS: Windows 11 |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, porina said:

Basically earliest hardware AV1 decode support was late 2020, about 3.5 years ago. Amongst the early implementations are Intel iGPUs, which will make up a good chunk of PCs out there.

Except for the "gamers", the majority of people I know keep their computers until software support is gone or it just starts getting too slow for everyday use.

 

Even myself, my rig doesn't have AV1 support...because why would I upgrade?  I would say there is a large amount of people with older systems

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Except for the "gamers", the majority of people I know keep their computers until software support is gone or it just starts getting too slow for everyday use.

I agree but that doesn't matter. AV1 being default is a long way from AV1 being mandatory.

 

What I wrote was expanding the post I replied to. Give a bit more context as to which systems might support AV1 hardware decode. Probably vast majority of the last two years, and a good proportion going back 3.5 years.

 

There will always be older systems that don't support the latest thing. That doesn't negate the need to add new things otherwise nothing would ever change. We had similar arguments with ray tracing in games and we've already passed the 50% RT capable mark on Steam Hardware Survey. Ball park 5 years from nothing to majority of Steam gamers. We're probably going to have similar arguments about AI. It takes time but it has to start somewhere.

 

Edit: we also have the impending doom of Windows 10. Once that happens that could jump things up a bit.

Gaming system: R7 7800X3D, Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming Wifi, Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE ARGB, Corsair Vengeance 2x 32GB 6000C30, RTX 4070, MSI MPG A850G, Fractal Design North, Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Productivity system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, 64GB ram (mixed), RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, random 1080p + 720p displays.
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it the content creators or YT that plans on re-transcoding these to AV1? Because of the limited hardware decode user base, would make sense to relegate AV1 to 4k and higher first. The vast majority of people don't watch 4k let alone support AV1 when watching YT from a mobile device.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Is the content creators or YT that plans on re-transcoding these to AV1?

Probably YT will do the work for now. There is no change to the recommended upload settings for creators. Still H.264.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171

 

Gaming system: R7 7800X3D, Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming Wifi, Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE ARGB, Corsair Vengeance 2x 32GB 6000C30, RTX 4070, MSI MPG A850G, Fractal Design North, Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Productivity system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, 64GB ram (mixed), RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, random 1080p + 720p displays.
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm 100% confident that youtube decides to re-transcode from source videos depending on access times.

 

Like someone who uploads a 100GB of videos a week in HEVC, will get that initial transcode to VP9 unless they're like LTT or MrBeast, but if that video goes viral, it might get pushed into an AV1 to save on bandwidth.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Kisai said:

Almost no devices support AV1 before Android 14. Pretty much any device made before 2022, will not.

https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/01/12/samsung-exynos-2100-announced-today-with-significant-upgrades-and-a-built-in-5g-modem/

https://www.kimovil.com/en/list-smartphones-by-processor-group/exynos-2100

 

So Galaxy 21+ or later using it(non-US models), and not the snapdragon 888(which is the US/CANADA model.) 

 

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/smartphones/snapdragon-8-series-mobile-platforms/snapdragon-888-5g-mobile-platform , does not.

 

The  Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 supports AV1, which was released in November 2022, and is two generations newer than the 888. 

 

 

https://www.broadcom.com/products/broadband/set-top-box/bcm7218x

This is a STB chipset, not a phone chipset, so most likely will be seen in ISP's cheap STB's and some smartTV's

 

Basically, the answer is going to be "if you want this feature, do your homework."

 

I'm ok if they have it on by default to save the bandwidth of the platform. But they need to have a toggle for non-AV1. 

or heck -- how about a device detection engine? Does the device not support AV1? Then maybe don't turn it on lol

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

Like someone who uploads a 100GB of videos a week in HEVC, will get that initial transcode to VP9 unless they're like LTT or MrBeast, but if that video goes viral, it might get pushed into an AV1 to save on bandwidth.

YT caches popular content locally with CDNs, no? Are they really hurting for bandwidth? If devices struggle to playback AV1 in software (dropped frames), the experience would probably be worse than if they streamed it over a simi-congested network at peak viewing times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, StDragon said:

Is it the content creators or YT that plans on re-transcoding these to AV1? Because of the limited hardware decode user base, would make sense to relegate AV1 to 4k and higher first. The vast majority of people don't watch 4k let alone support AV1 when watching YT from a mobile device.

no? it doesn't really matter what u upload as long yt accepts it they will encode it however they see fit.  so if your sub 100k subs the worst way possible  🙂

 

 

The direction tells you... the direction

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

Softwares used:

Corsair Link (Anime Edition) 

MSI Afterburner 

OpenRGB

Lively Wallpaper 

OBS Studio

Shutter Encoder

Avidemux

FSResizer

Audacity 

VLC

WMP

GIMP

HWiNFO64

Paint

3D Paint

GitHub Desktop 

Superposition 

Prime95

Aida64

GPUZ

CPUZ

Generic Logviewer

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

I'm ok if they have it on by default to save the bandwidth of the platform. But they need to have a toggle for non-AV1. 

or heck -- how about a device detection engine? Does the device not support AV1? Then maybe don't turn it on lol

Hopefully there will be a toggle, most laptops don’t support AV1 and will get their batteries roasted if they cannot use more common decoding as an option.

My Current Setup:

AMD Ryzen 5900X

Kingston HyperX Fury 3200mhz 2x16GB

MSI B450 Gaming Plus

Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo

EVGA RTX 3060 Ti XC

Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB

WD 5400RPM 2TB

EVGA G3 750W

Corsair Carbide 300R

Arctic Fans 140mm x4 120mm x 1

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, StDragon said:

YT caches popular content locally with CDNs, no? Are they really hurting for bandwidth? If devices struggle to playback AV1 in software (dropped frames), the experience would probably be worse than if they streamed it over a simi-congested network at peak viewing times.

They are cached at CDNs yea, each quality/resolution setting is it's own file (YT doesn't real time transcode) and each quality/resolution setting may actually have more than 1 file, one for VP9 and another H264 which is the current possible (not all videos have both at the same playback setting).

 

Some videos do have a 1080p/720p VP9 and H264 and for lower may only be H264 if an older video. The YouTube player does know what hardware decode support a device has and will select based on that (you can't manually choose).

 

So when YouTube rolls out AV1 it'll be only for 4k or 4k and 1080p premium, maybe 1080p standard. They will still have VP9 as well and will rely on device detection. Probably in a year or so 4k will be AV1 only for new videos and then a year later 1080p premium.

 

YouTube has migrated between codecs more than once, none of those other times did the world end 🙂 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/20/2024 at 6:50 AM, leadeater said:

Just because it is the default doesn't necessarily mean there isn't another codec source available.

...for now

Engineer, electronics enthusiast, maker. My devices/tech:

Desktop (Main): R7-7800X3D/EVGA FTW3 RTX 3090/32" Curved QLED monitor

Desktop (HTPC): Ryzen 3-3200G/RX 580

Handheld: ASUS ROG Ally Z1 Extreme

Laptop: ASUS ROG Strix G15 Advantage

VR: Quest 2

Phone: Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra

Dev Boards: TI MSP430/Arduino Uno/Raspberry Pi 4/esp32

Sound: Sony WH-1000XM4, HyperX Quadcast

Camera: Sony a6300 w/ 18-135mm kit lens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

So when YouTube rolls out AV1 it'll be only for 4k or 4k and 1080p premium, maybe 1080p standard. They will still have VP9 as well and will rely on device detection. Probably in a year or so 4k will be AV1 only for new videos and then a year later 1080p premium.

If so, this is a rational way of migrating to a new codec.

 

At the moment, only the Apple M3 and iPhone 15 Pro support hardware AV1 playback. I'm sure some Android phones that support too, but at the moment all AV1 hardware decode is a premium optional feature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Nimoy007 said:

...for now

For now and then not later is actually fine, if we are worried about phone battery life then by the time everyone is actually trying to play 4k on their phone only I doubt they have their current device. I would guess YouTube doesn't auto select 4k on phones  but since I don't watch YouTube on my phone I wouldn't know. Outside of Apple it's actually more likely Windows laptops will have AV1 support. Intel supported it far sooner and a lot more people replace Windows laptops sooner compared to Apple.

 

There will be people negatively effected but that was the case last time codecs were migrated too, nothing is going to catch on fire.

 

Demanding zero people effected (negatively) is simply unrealistic and also unfair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×