Do you really want to cross that bridge?

[Dutch_Master]

NTSB report on bridge collapse near Pittsburg, PA, with animations and actual footage of the collapse:

 

 

 

It's easy to conclude the root cause of the collapse was lack of maintenance on the part of PennDOT. But that leaves the question: why didn't they maintain the bridge as they should, especially after nearly 8 years of alarming reports on the rapidly deteriorating state of the bridge? If you know the answer, let us know too!

 

Spoiler

Maintaining stuff costs money, from tax-payers. Tax that no true patriotic American wants to pay, unless you're a communist or worse, a socialist! So agencies like PennDOT are forced to spend every penny twice w/o actually spending it, because the elected political leadership doesn't want to pay for maintaining stuff, tax raises are just not flying it with voters. And then they only want new shiny stuff, objects that exert grandeur and prestige and by adhering their names to it, hoping said prestige will shine on their political legacy too. The fact this collapse didn't leave fatalities is pure luck. Had this happened later in the day, with much busier road use, fatalities would have been inevitable. So, the actual root cause is not so much PennDOT, but American society at large and their obsession to Not.Pay.Tax. Or at least as little as you can get away with. Think about it and consider the implications.

 

[MiszS]

that's probably the most off topic thing i've seen here lol

[da na]

Not to delve too deep into the political aspect, but to play off what you said about taxes -

Taxes don't only go to maintaining infrastructure, they're divided between quite a lot of departments and I'm sure some pockets too. Just raising taxes is not the solution because if people don't know where their tax money is going and if it will actually make improvements or not, people will be far more reluctant to pay. "...[P]eople will tell you they don’t want their tax money wasted, by a welfare agency or by the Pentagon" - Barack Obama, 2004. Not a new issue, unfortunately.

[Dutch_Master]

Well, it is the Off Topic section, so whaddaya expect?

[Dutch_Master]

1 minute ago, da na said:

Taxes don't only go to maintaining infrastructure

I know, I live in one of those despised European socialist countries (founding member of NATO, and all predecessors of the current EU, home of the International Peace Court as well as several International Criminal Courts. Not to mention the biggest flower auction on the planet and only 2nd to the US in agriculture exports, key transport hub in NW-Europe and inventors of the Exchange system now dominated by Wall Street. And the first multinational company, the VOC. But to Americans, we're the loathed socialists )

What we got in return of our tax-euro's? Don't ask me, this guy knows:

https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

And this from that other "socialist" country, Germany:

https://www.youtube.com/@TypeAshton

 

Please explore their channels, and many like them, for a North-American view of European solutions to problems the US and Canada also have.

 

 

[MiszS]

14 minutes ago, Dutch_Master said:

Well, it is the Off Topic section, so whaddaya expect?

ik, still kinda funny

[Caroline]

I love the part where a private company operating a private ship demolishes a bridge but taxpayers have to pay to rebuild it.

[atxcyclist]

1 hour ago, Dutch_Master said:

NTSB report on bridge collapse near Pittsburg, PA, with animations and actual footage of the collapse:

 

 

It's easy to conclude the root cause of the collapse was lack of maintenance on the part of PennDOT. But that leaves the question: why didn't they maintain the bridge as they should, especially after nearly 8 years of alarming reports on the rapidly deteriorating state of the bridge? If you know the answer, let us know too!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Maintaining stuff costs money, from tax-payers. Tax that no true patriotic American wants to pay, unless you're a communist or worse, a socialist! So agencies like PennDOT are forced to spend every penny twice w/o actually spending it, because the elected political leadership doesn't want to pay for maintaining stuff, tax raises are just not flying it with voters. And then they only want new shiny stuff, objects that exert grandeur and prestige and by adhering their names to it, hoping said prestige will shine on their political legacy too. The fact this collapse didn't leave fatalities is pure luck. Had this happened later in the day, with much busier road use, fatalities would have been inevitable. So, the actual root cause is not so much PennDOT, but American society at large and their obsession to Not.Pay.Tax. Or at least as little as you can get away with. Think about it and consider the implications.

 

Money.
 

Money is the reason bridges and other infrastructure isn’t built and/or maintained like it should be. Paying a structural engineer to inspect a bridge isn’t that much, getting ahead of a catastrophic failure by preemptively replacing gussets, cables, and rivets is very expensive, especially when public perception is ‘road closed = bad’ even though it’s necessary to facilitate that maintenance.

 

The last twenty years of my life I’ve worked in commercial architecture, mostly on medical facilities like hospitals. Even extremely necessary facilities like that have to ‘value-engineer’ aspects of them and reduce project scope to fit a budget. It might be cheaper plumbing fixtures or wall finishes, something innocuous, but if they can put less shutoff valves in med gas lines and save $75k, they’ll do it even if it makes a potential future expansion much more difficult.

Money rules everything, even the most important things.

[thrasher_565]

i watch alot of story's of neglect. alot of times they no of problems but turn a blind eye and pay off the inspector...and most case get away with it...most times they just wright it in law to "try" and prevent the accent agane but there times were law dose not get unforced...

[Monkey Dust]

9 hours ago, Caroline said:

I love the part where a private company operating a private ship demolishes a bridge but taxpayers have to pay to rebuild it.

Yes, insurance should have picked up the tab for rebuilding the bridge. I guess if the government is going to generously volunteer taxpayer cash, the insurance companies won't complain.

[Donut417]

On 3/29/2024 at 6:34 PM, Dutch_Master said:

But that leaves the question: why didn't they maintain the bridge as they should,

Cant speak for Pennsylvania. But here in Michigan roads are generally under county or local government control. Meaning the county or the local government has to maintain the road. Local governments especially out in the suburbs dont have the financial ability to maintain roads like that. A town south of where I live had to shut a bridge down for a few years before they could replace it. I know that we had residence complaining about roads in their neighborhood and the city basically said we can put the issue on the ballot to see if we can get funding. Promptly it was voted down. 40% to 60% of our residence are retired and poor, so they cant afford more property taxes.

[dogwitch]

23 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Cant speak for Pennsylvania. But here in Michigan roads are generally under county or local government control. Meaning the county or the local government has to maintain the road. Local governments especially out in the suburbs dont have the financial ability to maintain roads like that. A town south of where I live had to shut a bridge down for a few years before they could replace it. I know that we had residence complaining about roads in their neighborhood and the city basically said we can put the issue on the ballot to see if we can get funding. Promptly it was voted down. 40% to 60% of our residence are retired and poor, so they cant afford more property taxes.

john oliver did a ep in bridges....

their a fed court order to allow condemn bridges to be open..

[Donut417]

10 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

their a fed court order to allow condemn bridges to be open..

Couldn't find anything about that. Even if that was the case. Uncle Sam only technically owns the interstate system, all other roads are under state control. We have had several bridges in our state that have closed for repairs and replace. I think we have had a couple even collapse.

[dogwitch]

13 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Couldn't find anything about that. Even if that was the case. Uncle Sam only technically owns the interstate system, all other roads are under state control. We have had several bridges in our state that have closed for repairs and replace. I think we have had a couple even collapse.

a fed court order over rides state lvl stuff.

[Donut417]

Just now, dogwitch said:

a fed court order over rides state lvl stuff.

No it does not in all cases. The constitution is clear about state rights. Like I stated above. The interstate is federal property. All other roads are the property of the state, county and local municipality.

[dogwitch]

49 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

No it does not in all cases. The constitution is clear about state rights. Like I stated above. The interstate is federal property. All other roads are the property of the state, county and local municipality.

https://www.transportation.gov/roadways-and-bridges

 

what  guide lines and rules that a state needs to follow... dot rules on the matter.

 

[Donut417]

27 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

https://www.transportation.gov/roadways-and-bridges

 

what  guide lines and rules that a state needs to follow... dot rules on the matter.

 

Well, that’s more of guidelines. States can do what they want, both New York and Texas proved that.