Please leave my walled garden alone

[Apple.fanboy]

Hello Mr.Techtips and friends. I am here today to make an appeal. I know exactly how this post is going to be treated by people here but I want to say it anyways. Please stop advocating for Apple to make their accessories compatible with any hardware. Also please stop advocating for 3rd party app stores on iOS. I spent the first 31 years of my life using windows and android and hating on apple. I finally decided to learn why apple does what they do. Their philosophy and approach to user experience intrigued me. I bought an iphone, it was a great experience compared to my S20 Ultra. I bought an apple watch, also a great experience compared to my galaxy watch. I bought a m1 macbook, after learning how to navigate the os, it too was a great experience compared to windows. Homepods, home kit devices, apple tv. The way that all this stuff works together and creates a user experience where the hardware gets out of your way as much as possible is quite enjoyable. Apple’s dedication to user data privacy and security is another reason why I appreciate their philosophy. Nothing is un-hackable, but Apple does a much better job of protecting their customers than windows or android ever has. You think by advocating for cross platform compatibility of accessories you’re freeing people from being locked into Apple’s eco system, you’re not. You’re just ripping down the gate on our garden. We aren’t trapped in the garden we chose it, it’s really nice here. If people want to leave and go to android or windows they are free to do so. The only way that we are trapped is that there is not a better experience than apple. By advocating that Apple change their approach to accessories and 3rd party app stores you are asking them to compromise the security and experience their customers expect from apple. That could potentially lead to a loss in brand trust which is a big part of what makes apple, apple, customer trust. I’ll beat you to the punch and call myself a boot licker, apple fanboy, shill, tech illiterate, etc. If you aren’t a user of apple devices you have no say in how the company should operate.  

[bal723]

2 minutes ago, Apple.fanboy said:

Hello Mr.Techtips and friends. I am here today to make an appeal. I know exactly how this post is going to be treated by people here but I want to say it anyways. Please stop advocating for Apple to make their accessories compatible with any hardware. Also please stop advocating for 3rd party app stores on iOS. I spent the first 31 years of my life using windows and android and hating on apple. I finally decided to learn why apple does what they do. Their philosophy and approach to user experience intrigued me. I bought an iphone, it was a great experience compared to my S20 Ultra. I bought an apple watch, also a great experience compared to my galaxy watch. I bought a m1 macbook, after learning how to navigate the os, it too was a great experience compared to windows. Homepods, home kit devices, apple tv. The way that all this stuff works together and creates a user experience where the hardware gets out of your way as much as possible is quite enjoyable. Apple’s dedication to user data privacy and security is another reason why I appreciate their philosophy. Nothing is un-hackable, but Apple does a much better job of protecting their customers than windows or android ever has. You think by advocating for cross platform compatibility of accessories you’re freeing people from being locked into Apple’s eco system, you’re not. You’re just ripping down the gate on our garden. We aren’t trapped in the garden we chose it, it’s really nice here. If people want to leave and go to android or windows they are free to do so. The only way that we are trapped is that there is not a better experience than apple. By advocating that Apple change their approach to accessories and 3rd party app stores you are asking them to compromise the security and experience their customers expect from apple. That could potentially lead to a loss in brand trust which is a big part of what makes apple, apple, customer trust. I’ll beat you to the punch and call myself a boot licker, apple fanboy, shill, tech illiterate, etc. If you aren’t a user of apple devices you have no say in how the company should operate.  

iphon

[PDifolco]

Yeah, some people prefer to live in their cozy prison too

But the real issue is the "security" bs argument, Apple just wants money and will invent anything to protect their wallet

[Murasaki]

10 minutes ago, Apple.fanboy said:

 If you aren’t a user of apple devices you have no say in how the company should operate.  

Nor do apple users really hah. Have a great day.

[Apple.fanboy]

Just now, Murasaki said:

Nor do apple users really hah. Have a great day.

Exactly

[Motifator]

This reminds me of a pastor post.

Diehard Apple fans will remember how many Shekels Apple asked for a X1900 XT. An X1900 was going for like what? $200 when the Mac version costed $2000. Lol, too much for a BIOS fix.

What a dumpster.

[LogicalDrm]

Or, think of it from another perspective. Having alternative app stores doesn't affect you in any way. You aren't forced to use it. You can still use you Apple branded stuff. Same with peripherals, I don't think there has been active call to make those work with other devices. Playstation brand peripherals don't work with Xbox either, and I don't see much crying over that. So I think you are confusing it there to lessen proprietary charging solutions. As in Apple being forced to make their products USB-C compatible. Which they already could do before that ruling, but decided not to. Their defense was cost effectiveness, to them as business and to customers who already have their chargers. But that defense kinda falls flat when they stop supplying chargers with devices and ask VERY high price for those chargers bought separately. So someone already in the ecosystem might benefit, but those coming in would have high entry in terms of fees.

 

So Apple being asked to be more consumer friendly does not lessen your experience, but might enrich others. Which means, this kind of ideology is indeed "walled garden", but not in the way you see it. But as "we don't want those who aren't elite" way. Such gatekeeping is stupid imo. It wasn't the ideology Apple was founded by Steve's, its ideology of new generation of Apple bosses.

 

If you think through things that Linus for example asks of Apple:

• Include chargers. If you insist of having proprietary connectors, this is must. If you agree of using USB-C, then you can skip.
• Have USB-C. Goes with above. They already can do it, but choose not to in order to generate more profits. There's no other valid reason.
• Touchscreen on Macbooks. This is ancient style of thinking used devices. And also, Apple wants more profits. They want to their users to have one of each. Phone, tablet and PC. Not giving all features that they could to those, forcing consumer to get the next or previous step to do something basic. Whereas they could take some professions by storm. Like adding convertible Macbook with touchscreen to semi-professional or freelancers working with photo/video field.
• Repairability. Apple is actively blocking 3rd party repairs. Their reasoning has been privacy and making sure products are within spec. This works as long as device has warranty. But after that, Apple can deny repairs as in their eyes, devices is EOL. Whereas 3rd party repair shops can keep them running for years on years. This essentially would lessen the profits for Apple. As the people who otherwise would need to buy new devices can go for repairs instead.
  • Here I have real-life story. A person I know had to buy new iPhone after previous broke. I don't know what happened to it or whether it was under warranty or not. Repairs would have costed more than getting new device, when the repairs were done by licensed shop.
• Easier/cheaper upgrades. So this is addition to above, but mainly when it comes to Macbooks and Mac Pro's. The first config is already on high side in terms of pricing of some products. For example, storage and RAM are priced WAY beyond free markets and even competition (consoles and Dell/HP/Lenovo). Again, why is that? Some of that high price can be attributed to quality control. Apple wants to make sure these parts will work. But at some point, that just isn't going to be OK as reason. The high pricing has two other reasons. One, because they can. And two, because you have to do it in shop, you can't do it yourself. So they control things and you as consumer are at their mercy. 
• Cooling. This is mostly about Mac Pro which is constantly noted to be really bad with cooling. Sinister side of me thinks its to bring in more repair and spares money to Apple. Since you can't improve things on your own, and having things run hot will shorten their lifespan.
• The luxury effect. This comes from cleaning cloths, unremovable cables etc. Which even Jonathan Horst, a Mac guy inside LMG, has given Apple note about. But its luxury decision. You want to show you have money? You buy expensive stuff just because its expensive, not because it would be better for something. I would bet that cleaning cloth I get with my Boss glasses for free works as well as something you have to BUY SEPARATELY from Apple.

Those are just things I remember from LTT videos. Additionally, my gripe is that Apple wants to be included with the world, but doesn't want to do anything about it. So when the rest of the world is going for open-source in files and handling connectivity, Apple does their own thing. Meaning that when Apple user needs to interact with rest of the world, they expect others to bend to please their quirks. As in HEIC image format, non-compatible document formats, even PDF files that doesn't display correctly on Windows machines vs Apple.

[LAwLz]

The good thing about opening things up is that you still get to stay in the walled garden if you want and enjoy all those benefits. It's just that others who may not feel exactly like you could also benefit in some other ways. 

 

If you want an analogy, it's like if some restaurant added some vegan options to their menu, while keeping all the old stuff there as well. Just because the restaurant now has more options and can appeal to more people doesn't mean you have to order the new stuff. You can keep ordering the old non-vegan meals if you want. 

[Erioch]

Walled garden of text.

[Erioch]

58 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If you want an analogy, it's like if some restaurant added some vegan options to their menu, while keeping all the old stuff there as well. Just because the restaurant now has more options and can appeal to more people doesn't mean you have to order the new stuff. You can keep ordering the old non-vegan meals if you want. 

As long as they aren't using the same cookware to cook vegetables that they use to cook my steak, I'm happy.

[da na]

If you don't want third party app stores on your phone, just don't install them. PC users aren't forced to install Steam or whatever. 

[aisle9]

I think the bigger problem with Apple is that they actively find ways to stop third-party parts and third-party repairs from happening. Want to change your battery? Here, have a nonfunctional battery health function and a message every time you boot up the phone. Want to change your display? Hey, now Face ID doesn't work! And now that they do "allow" third-parties to get Apple parts, they make them so ridiculously, prohibitively expensive that it rarely makes more sense than just buying a new phone would anyway.

 

4 minutes ago, Erioch said:

As long as they aren't using the same cookware to cook vegetables that they use to cook my steak, I'm happy.

You'd be amazed (or not) how few people get this concept. I'm not a vegan, but I have family who are, and few things piss them off faster than going to a non-vegan restaurant with vegan options and finding out that their tempeh panini was grilled on the same griddle that my steak panini was cooked on at the same time.

[Erioch]

Just now, aisle9 said:

You'd be amazed (or not) how few people get this concept. I'm not a vegan, but I have family who are, and few things piss them off faster than going to a non-vegan restaurant with vegan options and finding out that their tempeh panini was grilled on the same griddle that my steak panini was cooked on at the same time.

I don't want my steak fouled by those fithly vegetables.

[Caroline]

Right, shitposting aside the whole Apple ecosystem really seems to work when it comes to 3 things:

• Ease of use
• Software compatibility
• Speed/response time

Macbooks just work. You buy it, charge the battery, log into your Apple account and it's ready to use out of the box. Normie users care about that, they don't know or want to deal with setting up drivers, removing bloatware, fighting the OS to make a stupid local account or losing their minds over errors, instability or glitches.

 

It's much easier to code software for a series of computers that are all the same with minor changes like RAM size or the addition of a graphics card, the opposite of what happens with Windows software and drivers, you get a shitload of legacy code, a mess of drivers, lines of spaghetti that are only there to try and make your program compatible with as many hardware configurations as possible

 

Remove the spaghetti and legacy code and you get programs that are a lot more responsive, Macs and iPhones rarely if ever hang or crash. I've used a 1st gen iPhone borrowed from a friend and it's amazing how fast and responsive it is, I repeat, a FIRST gen device, that's what, 17 years old? sure you can't browse the internet anymore but it's impressive how fast it is, I compare it to the shit noname chinesium Android phones full of adware, malware and spyware that are a constant stream of ANR errors and hang or reboot for no reason even with no extra software installed. Now, you know I don't like smartphones in general so Apple or Android sucks the same for me, this iPhone thing was me trying to see if it worked after replacing the depleted battery for a new one, I didn't connect it to the internet or put a SIM card in it, still, it just worked.

 

I'm not a fangrill at all, in fact I'm against all the shitty things Apple does to prevent third party technicians from repairing their devices so they can keep milking people with ridiculous repair costs or by forcing them to buy a new device when the old one can still be fixed. That doesn't mean I'm a Rossmann fan either, guy's an insufferable c*nt that poorshames everyone, ugh.

[Senzelian]

7 hours ago, Apple.fanboy said:

Nothing is un-hackable, but Apple does a much better job of protecting their customers than windows or android ever has.

Tell me how they're doing that.

 

21 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Macbooks just work.

Yeah no, they don't. They have just as many dumb issues as Windows.

 

For example, did you know that Macbooks have a bug where they won't let you log out of your Apple account? When that happens the only way to fix it is to reinstall the entire OS. Also, I have seen Macbooks refusing to connect to a Wi-Fi network, even tho the same network has previously worked, or sometimes outright refusing correct hotspot passwords. Then there is the general unresponsiveness of M1 Macbooks at startup (I have to deal with that daily), or just general UI bugs that happen when dragging windows around.

 

Oh and the most fun bug ever, tho this has nothing to do with any particular hardware, is when Apple decides that your password is now wrong, even tho you've never changed it and you definitely typed it in correctly, because you copied it out of a password manager, which worked previously. This has happened to at least a few dozen of people that I personally worked with, me included.

 

So yeah, fuck Apple, just like Microsoft, Google and any other big software developer. They all suck ass.

[Erioch]

49 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

Macbooks just work.

Yeah no, they don't. They have just as many dumb issues as Windows.

One of the PMs where I work has a Macbook and it always displays over 6,000 unread Outlook emails on the taskbar (or whatever it's called on a Mac).  It Outlook itself it shows zero unread emails.

[ToboRobot]

8 hours ago, Apple.fanboy said:

Hello Mr.Techtips and friends. I am here today to make an appeal. I know exactly how this post is going to be treated by people here but I want to say it anyways. Please stop advocating for Apple to make their accessories compatible with any hardware. Also please stop advocating for 3rd party app stores on iOS. I spent the first 31 years of my life using windows and android and hating on apple. I finally decided to learn why apple does what they do. Their philosophy and approach to user experience intrigued me. I bought an iphone, it was a great experience compared to my S20 Ultra. I bought an apple watch, also a great experience compared to my galaxy watch. I bought a m1 macbook, after learning how to navigate the os, it too was a great experience compared to windows. Homepods, home kit devices, apple tv. The way that all this stuff works together and creates a user experience where the hardware gets out of your way as much as possible is quite enjoyable. Apple’s dedication to user data privacy and security is another reason why I appreciate their philosophy. Nothing is un-hackable, but Apple does a much better job of protecting their customers than windows or android ever has. You think by advocating for cross platform compatibility of accessories you’re freeing people from being locked into Apple’s eco system, you’re not. You’re just ripping down the gate on our garden. We aren’t trapped in the garden we chose it, it’s really nice here. If people want to leave and go to android or windows they are free to do so. The only way that we are trapped is that there is not a better experience than apple. By advocating that Apple change their approach to accessories and 3rd party app stores you are asking them to compromise the security and experience their customers expect from apple. That could potentially lead to a loss in brand trust which is a big part of what makes apple, apple, customer trust. I’ll beat you to the punch and call myself a boot licker, apple fanboy, shill, tech illiterate, etc. If you aren’t a user of apple devices you have no say in how the company should operate.  

I too am fine with walled garden ecosystems, if there are other options.  It's not like android doesn't exist.  I find forcing people not to have the option of the walled garden is very anti-freedom.

 

What I find odd is well informed people going through these steps.

 

1. Airpods are part of a walled garden eco system that requires an iPhone.
2. Despite not using an iPhone buy them anyway.
3. Complain.

 

[Apple.fanboy]

3 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

I too am fine with walled garden ecosystems, if there are other options.  It's not like android doesn't exist.  I find forcing people not to have the option of the walled garden is very anti-freedom.

 

What I find odd is well informed people going through these steps.

 

1. Airpods are part of a walled garden eco system that requires an iPhone.
2. Despite not using an iPhone buy them anyway.
3. Complain.

 

This is the exact thing that made me make this post. Linus ranting about airpods.

[ToboRobot]

4 minutes ago, Apple.fanboy said:

This is the exact thing that made me make this post. Linus ranting about airpods.

Apple isn't perfect and could absolutely improve the system somewhat without destroying the walled garden, but I feel like Linus's Airpod rant detracts from any reasonable arguments he can make. 

It's stupid and annoying but hardly an anti-trust issue.

[Erioch]

billion trillion

 

[Mihle]

20 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

I too am fine with walled garden ecosystems, if there are other options.  It's not like android doesn't exist.  I find forcing people not to have the option of the walled garden is very anti-freedom.

 

What I find odd is well informed people going through these steps.

 

1. Airpods are part of a walled garden eco system that requires an iPhone.
2. Despite not using an iPhone buy them anyway.
3. Complain.

 

What some people don't seem to get is that, opening the walls a little doesn't make the experience worse for those that only are inside of it. It only improves it for those that aren't.

 

Opening it up a little doesn't have to change how well your AirPods works with you iPhone, or iPhone with your Mac.

Its not a zero sum game for users.

[ToboRobot]

43 minutes ago, Mihle said:

What some people don't seem to get is that, opening the walls a little doesn't make the experience worse for those that only are inside of it. It only improves it for those that aren't.

 

Opening it up a little doesn't have to change how well your AirPods works with you iPhone, or iPhone with your Mac.

Its not a zero sum game for users.

I don't view it as better or worse, but different.  There are trade offs for different choices.

Opening the walls a little can have negative impacts on user experience for people within the ecosystem.  You are forcing a company to add complexity to a product and maintain more software, which may actually come at a cost.

Unfortunately most people involved in these laws don't actually understand developing software or products. 

What I find baffling is that there is a lot of proprietary BS that could be changed to help people vastly more than smartphones.  If governments want to tackle big companies and IP law for the benefit of the people the pharmaceutical and healthcare markets would help people and literally save lives.  But I guess Apple gets the clicks.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

What I find baffling is that there is a lot of proprietary BS that could be changed to help people vastly more than smartphones.  If governments want to tackle big companies and IP law for the benefit of the people the pharmaceutical and healthcare markets would help people and literally save lives.  But I guess Apple gets the clicks.

It's not a situation where it is either Apple or pharmaceutical companies. They could do both. What you are doing here is called a "fallacy of relative privation".

But it is most likely easier to tell Apple "hey, stop deliberately making it hard for users to leave your ecosystem" than it is trying to reform the field of medical research. Making changes to IP law for medical stuff could have devastating effects as well if not done carefully and correctly. Telling Apple that they have to support RCS, or telling Apple to stop restricting what developers can communicate to their users for example is way easier and far less risky.

[ToboRobot]

14 hours ago, LAwLz said:

It's not a situation where it is either Apple or pharmaceutical companies. They could do both. What you are doing here is called a "fallacy of relative privation".

But it is most likely easier to tell Apple "hey, stop deliberately making it hard for users to leave your ecosystem" than it is trying to reform the field of medical research. Making changes to IP law for medical stuff could have devastating effects as well if not done carefully and correctly. Telling Apple that they have to support RCS, or telling Apple to stop restricting what developers can communicate to their users for example is way easier and far less risky.

They could do both, but they are not doing that.  There seems to be no intention to fix the healthcare system in America.

Or put it another way, the law could be fairly and evenly applied to everyone, but instead it seems that it is not, and it is selectively applied.

Government: Lets go after big companies in the medical and pharmaceutical space, that literally results in thousands of people dying every year. link
Government employee: But what if we target Apple first, so people will stop making fun of my text bubble colour!

When you put it this way, you really have to question the governments priorities and wonder why they are trying to fix this now.

 

 

So my question is, if America is fixing iPhone ecosystems before dealing with the healthcare systems that kills many Americans every years, how many people are dying because of Apple's iron grip on the iPhone ecosystem?

iOS must be killing tens of thousands of people a year to get the government to worry about text bubbles instead of people actually dying!  I guess there aren't any serious problems in America for the government to deal with if this is what the government is working on.  

 

[Avocado Diaboli]

2 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

So my question is, if America is fixing iPhone ecosystems before dealing with the healthcare systems that kills many Americans every years, how many people are dying because of Apple's iron grip on the iPhone ecosystem?

iOS must be killing tens of thousands of people a year to get the government to worry about text bubbles instead of people actually dying!  I guess there aren't any serious problems in America for the government to deal with if this is what the government is working on. 

 

Seriously, this is the worst way of arguing for change, right next to "This doesn't solve the problem 100%, so we shouldn't even try". It's a fallacious cudgel used to silence criticism.

 

As for the topic, are you unaware that walls tend to come with windows and doors? You can stay in your garden all you like, but some of us like to leave Hotel California eventually. Buying expensive tech and not being able to fully use it unless you also buy additional expensive tech is never acceptable.