Fortnite is officially returning to iOS, but not for everyone. New Epic Games Store for iOS as well

[filpo]

Summary

Fortnite Is Coming Back To iOS In Europe This Year Via Epic Games Store launching on iOS, but only in the EU

 

Quotes

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Fortnite is coming back to iOS this year, at least in Europe, Epic Games announced today. It will do so by taking advantage of the Digital Markets Act law passed by the European Union, which will let the Epic Games Store on iOS.

 

There have been workarounds to play Fortnite on iOS (such as using GeForce NOW through the Safari browser), but other than that, as you certainly remember, Fortnite was banned from iOS in August 2020, after Epic Games attempted to introduce direct payments that would bypass Apple's 30% cut on every single microtransaction occurring on iOS. Epic was ready for it, of course, and had also prepared a lawsuit that dragged on for years, ending when the Supreme Court of the United States denied both companies' appeals earlier this month.

 

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Epic has said for years that it would like to bring its game store, which is currently available for Windows and macOS, to the iPhone. The store takes a smaller cut of fees than Apple’s App Store, which could make it a compelling option for developers if Epic can gain traction.

 

We’re about to see a wave of announcements of third-party app stores for iOS after Apple announced today that they would be allowed in Europe under its new rules. Epic is one of the first out the gate. AltStore has announced plans to launch, too.

 

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Remember Fortnite on iOS?

 

How bout we bring that back.

 

Later this year Fortnite will return in Europe on iOS through the @EpicGames Store. (shoutout DMA - an important new law in the EU making this possible).

@Apple the world is watching.

 

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Fortnite is coming back to iOS in Europe this year!

Via our soon to launch @EpicGames Store for iOS thanks to new rules in Europe via the new Digital Markets Act (DMA), stay tuned for more details.

 

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Apple mostly won the lawsuit, although it lost on one count (anti-steering provisions). However, in the European Union, it will have to comply with the DMA law. Still, Epic Games founder and majority stakeholder Tim Sweeney believes they are concocting a 'devious plan' of 'malicious compliance'. Here's what he wrote today on Twitter (in the quote below):

 

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They are forcing developers to choose between App Store exclusivity and the store terms, which will be illegal under DMA, or accept a new also-illegal anticompetitive scheme rife with new Junk Fees on downloads and new Apple taxes on payments they don't process.

 

Apple proposes that it can choose which stores are allowed to compete with their App Store. They could block Epic from launching the Epic Games Store and distributing Fortnite through it, for example, or block Microsoft, Valve, Good Old Games, or new entrants.

 

The Epic Games Store is the #7 software store in the world (behind the 3 console stores, 2 mobile stores, and Steam on PC). We're determined to launch on iOS and Android and enter the competition to become the #1 multi-platform software store, on the foundation of payment competition, 0%-12% fees, and exclusive games like Fortnite.

 

Epic has always supported the notion of Apple notarization and malware scanning for apps, but we strongly reject Apple's twisting this process to undermine competition and continue imposing Apple taxes on transactions they're not involved in.

 

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Notably, Epic will continue to argue to courts and regulators that Apple is breaking the law. In related news, Tim Sweeney was recently able to celebrate a resounding win against Google in a similar lawsuit.

My thoughts

Is Britain still part of the EU digitally? Or is it just considered separate? Anyway this news should bring back a substantial amount of players and might get me back into playing fortnite on the go. What do you guys think?

Link to post about alternative app stores

Sources

Fortnite Is Coming Back To iOS In Europe This Year Via Epic Games Store; Sweeney Criticizes Apple's DMA Plan (wccftech.com)

Epic Games Store and Fortnite are coming to iPhones in 2024 - The Verge

Edited January 26 by filpo

[DrMacintosh]

We did it bois, launchers are now on iOS. 2 apps for 1! This is surely a much better user experience than before.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

We did it bois, launchers are now on iOS. 2 apps for 1! This is surely a much better user experience than before.

You joke, but I think these are awesome news. 

We should not celebrate monopolies. And in this case monopoly mean the only store on iOS. You can argue that Apple should be allowed to have a monopoly on app stores since it's their platform, but for consumers, choise and competition is usually better than no choise and no competition. 

[Kisai]

11 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

We did it bois, launchers are now on iOS. 2 apps for 1! This is surely a much better user experience than before.

Given how much of a memory pig the epic store is, and how godawful slow it is on the PC, "why do we want this?"

[Godlygamer23]

12 hours ago, Kisai said:

Given how much of a memory pig the epic store is, and how godawful slow it is on the PC, "why do we want this?"

For the record, I think the Epic Games app is total garbage. Even freshly installing games can be a huge hassle. 

[Mark Kaine]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:47 PM, DrMacintosh said:

We did it bois, launchers are now on iOS. 2 apps for 1! This is surely a much better user experience than before.

100% better yes. no to walled garden bs! 

[Mark Kaine]

On 1/27/2024 at 6:38 AM, Kisai said:

Given how much of a memory pig the epic store is, and how godawful slow it is on the PC, "why do we want this?"

well, theoretically games should be cheaper without the apple cut, but why we really want this, is because we're law abiding citizens and monopolies are bad, m'k.

 

 

[Lunar River]

On 1/27/2024 at 4:38 PM, Kisai said:

Given how much of a memory pig the epic store is, and how godawful slow it is on the PC, "why do we want this?"

Did you know: you dont have to download it?

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Lunar River said:

Did you know: you dont have to download it?

No way, other people downloading it neans it will be download on his phone automatically

[Brooksie359]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:01 PM, LAwLz said:

You joke, but I think these are awesome news. 

We should not celebrate monopolies. And in this case monopoly mean the only store on iOS. You can argue that Apple should be allowed to have a monopoly on app stores since it's their platform, but for consumers, choise and competition is usually better than no choise and no competition. 

I wouldn't consider this more choice necessarily. I mean part of the appeal of Apple was its simplicity and its walled garden and now that is not longer an option with this change. 

[Lunar River]

6 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I wouldn't consider this more choice necessarily. I mean part of the appeal of Apple was its simplicity and its walled garden and now that is not longer an option with this change. 

why?

the app store isn't going anywhere...for people that want to keep the simplicity and frolic in the walled garden, they can.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I wouldn't consider this more choice necessarily. I mean part of the appeal of Apple was its simplicity and its walled garden and now that is not longer an option with this change. 

How is it no longer an option? App Store exists and I'd imagine exceedingly few will not be on the App Store anymore.

[Obioban]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

How is it no longer an option? App Store exists and I'd imagine exceedingly few will not be on the App Store anymore.

 

With the preface that I think alternate app stores should be allowed, but in the the interest of playing devil's advocate...

 

Let's say Facebook decides to make their apps Meta App Store only. These apps can free the of all the restrictions on tracking people/privacy invasion Apple has been forcing on them, so they can really start monetizing customers like never before. This provides them a strong incentive to go to their own app store only, if they can move people over.

 

What percent of people consider Facebook and/or Instagram and/or Whatsapp to be mandatory functionality for a smart phone? How many technologically inept people are even going to think twice before following facebook's easy to follow instructions for installing their alternative app store, unwittingly giving up their privacy/data in the process?

 

And these days Facebook isn't even that bad. Apply the same process to Tik Tok, Temu, other companies linked to the CCP, etc.

 

---- or ----

 

Consider how difficult it is to unsubscribe from some services. E.g. with the New York Times you have to mail them a certified letter. Gym memberships are often similar. A HUGE benefit to the Apple App store is all subscriptions can be easily managed (canceled) in one location, with a click. No subscription traps. That will clearly go away with some app stores.

 

I think this is absolutely a change for the net better, but it's going to come with tradeoffs-- especially for people that don't really know what they're doing.

[Sauron]

15 minutes ago, Obioban said:

Let's say Facebook decides to make their apps Meta App Store only. These apps can free the of all the restrictions on tracking people/privacy invasion Apple has been forcing on them, so they can really start monetizing customers like never before. This provides them a strong incentive to go to their own app store only, if they can move people over.

There have always been ways to circumvent app store restrictions with little effort. Also just because the app is sideloaded doesn't mean it suddenly gets privileged access to the operating system; things that are blocked by the API, like tracking location without consent, will still not be possible. This is the case on Android as well.

 

Speaking of which, on Android sideloading has always been possible and yet there are almost no mainstream apps requiring their own store or a sideload - because in most cases it would just cost them a huge portion of their install base. Fortnite is one of very few apps that can afford to attempt this and it's guaranteed to still lose them a lot of users (although considering they're playing this against being forced out of the platform it's probably not going to bug them).

22 minutes ago, Obioban said:

Consider how difficult it is to unsubscribe from some services. E.g. with the New York Times you have to mail them a certified letter. Gym memberships are often similar. A HUGE benefit to the Apple App store is all subscriptions can be easily managed (canceled) in one location, with a click. No subscription traps. That will clearly go away with some app stores.

 

I think this is absolutely a change for the net better, but it's going to come with tradeoffs-- especially for people that don't really know what they're doing.

If they're worried about that, they can just keep using the app store.

On 1/27/2024 at 6:38 AM, Kisai said:

Given how much of a memory pig the epic store is, and how godawful slow it is on the PC, "why do we want this?"

Nobody cares about the epic store. They care about being able to install what they want on their device.

 

Incidentally Apple's bullshit sideload license means it will be almost impossible to distribute apps outside of something like the epic store, so if that is what's going to happen then the fault lies solely at Apple's feet.

[Obioban]

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

There have always been ways to circumvent app store restrictions with little effort. Also just because the app is sideloaded doesn't mean it suddenly gets privileged access to the operating system; things that are blocked by the API, like tracking location without consent, will still not be possible. This is the case on Android as well.

We know, because Meta stated it, that Apple's App Tracking Transparency requirement alone cost Meta hundred of millions of dollars of customer data. There is no such requirement if they made/used their own app store. No privileged OS access is required-- they can just stop asking the customers permission, like they used to. ATT has nothing to do with tracking location, btw.

 

Just one, easy to point out and prove,  example.

 

Not to mention that Meta has been caught several times using private APIs that do give privileged OS access, which Apple was able to shut down because of their control of the App Store.

  

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If they're worried about that, they can just keep using the app store.

Yes, that's why I said it's fine if you know what you're doing. Most people... don't.

 

And the people who don't are the ones most likely to not realize they shouldn't be using alternate App Stores.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, Lunar River said:

why?

the app store isn't going anywhere...for people that want to keep the simplicity and frolic in the walled garden, they can.

The option of other app stores adds complexity and makes it no longer the same walled garden. Granted hopefully apple makes sure people can't install their party app stores that are insecure. 

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

How is it no longer an option? App Store exists and I'd imagine exceedingly few will not be on the App Store anymore.

I would imagine most will still use the app store but I also think some might get confused by the option. I have family members who got confused by android due to different options including stuff like alternative app stores. I guess if Apple makes it super hard to get to the option so only those who really want it will see it then it might not be adding confusion and complexity. 

[Kisai]

10 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I would imagine most will still use the app store but I also think some might get confused by the option. I have family members who got confused by android due to different options including stuff like alternative app stores. I guess if Apple makes it super hard to get to the option so only those who really want it will see it then it might not be adding confusion and complexity. 

More like it makes it harder for third parties to socially engineer someone to find it.

 

If you've ever tried to talk someone over the phone how to program their voicemail. Back when you had to actually program the voicemail number as a speed dial. That was too much for most people.

 

"alright, so press 0 until a + appears"

"I see 0"

"keep holding 0 and not release the button until +"

"Okay I see a plus"

"okay now enter this number 1234567890"

"1 2 what?"

 

The worst example of this was someone who wouldn't even try, and passed it to their husband who was suffering from a brain injury and fell asleep almost immediately.

 

Trust me, people don't like to read. They will follow instructions if they don't have to read. "third icon from the top" is more intuitive than "find where it says unlock"

 

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, Obioban said:

We know, because Meta stated it, that Apple's App Tracking Transparency requirement alone cost Meta hundred of millions of dollars of customer data. There is no such requirement if they made/used their own app store. No privileged OS access is required-- they can just stop asking the customers permission, like they used to. ATT has nothing to do with tracking location, btw.

 

Just one, easy to point out and prove,  example.

Quoting from Apple:

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The app developer can customize part of the message to explain why the app is asking to track your activity.

[...]

If you choose Ask App Not to Track, the app developer can’t access the system advertising identifier (IDFA), which is often used to track. The app is also not permitted to track your activity using other information that identifies you or your device, like your email address.

These very much look like API level restrictions, not just a pinky promise the developer makes when signing the app store's terms of service. These can still be enforced on sideloads by the operating system.

 

Also don't be tricked into believing that Apple can somehow prevent facebook from knowing and using your email address if you use it to create your account... all this means is that iOS won't make that information available to the app.

2 hours ago, Obioban said:

Not to mention that Meta has been caught several times using private APIs that do give privileged OS access, which Apple was able to shut down because of their control of the App Store.

Maybe they should fix their shitty API then, rather than use it as an excuse to maintain a monopoly and block open source developers.

2 hours ago, Obioban said:

Yes, that's why I said it's fine if you know what you're doing. Most people... don't.

If they don't know they will just use the app store. It's already there. Ideally Apple would bury the sideload enabling option three menus deep like android and leave it at that; if you don't know you'll just get a safe default. Heck, make it an obscure ritual like old school console cheats... I don't care. As long as the option is there for people who want it and the only barrier is knowledge, it's fine.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Wow, Epic Games actually won

[filpo]

1 minute ago, Deadpool2onBlu-Ray said:

Wow, Epic Games actually won

According to Tim Sweeney, they didn't. And apparently they mostly won the lawsuit but have to abide under EU laws 

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Apple mostly won the lawsuit, although it lost on one count (anti-steering provisions). However, in the European Union, it will have to comply with the DMA law. Still, Epic Games founder and majority stakeholder Tim Sweeney believes they are concocting a 'devious plan' of 'malicious compliance'. Here's what he wrote today on Twitter (in the quote below):

 

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Obioban said:

Let's say Facebook decides to make their apps Meta App Store only. These apps can free the of all the restrictions on tracking people/privacy invasion Apple has been forcing on them, so they can really start monetizing customers like never before. This provides them a strong incentive to go to their own app store only, if they can move people over.

Eh? Facebook already does this, Apple can't stop and doesn't prevent anything and everything being captured from people using Facebook. Since the Android App doesn't take anything from the device there is no reason or real justification to say it would happen on iOS.

 

Also Apple still notarize the Apps so they can reject anything like this, nothing changes here for that.

 

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Notarization for iOS apps — a baseline review that applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel, focused on platform integrity and protecting users. Notarization involves a combination of automated checks and human review. 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/

 

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Notarize your macOS software to give users more confidence that the Developer ID-signed software you distribute has been checked by Apple for malicious components. Notarization of macOS software is not App Review. The Apple notary service is an automated system that scans your software for malicious content, checks for code-signing issues, and returns the results to you quickly.

Invading peoples phones would come under malicious, even if only under Apple's interpretation, so they'd reject it.

[Lunar River]

5 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

The option of other app stores adds complexity and makes it no longer the same walled garden. Granted hopefully apple makes sure people can't install their party app stores that are insecure. 

How does more app stores add complexity? I dont see Android users holding their heads in frustration everything they need to download an app saying "it's too complicated....too many options!"

 

Contrary to, I guess, popular belief, Apple users arent utter morons who need to be told what to do and what to believe by a multi trillion dollar company.

 

[Mark Kaine]

11 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also Apple still notarize the Apps so they can reject anything like this, nothing changes here for that.

tbh maybe im not understanding the term notarize, but why would have apple a say in this?

 

google has no say in what i download from any third party sources including stores like Huawei or Galaxy store (afaik)

 

the worst they can do is "do you want to install this untested app that may or may not be malicious?" 

 

i think that's the point of these regulations, that gatekeepers cannot gatekeep anymore. if they have a say in every little thing these laws make no sense because they will not accomplish what they're supposed to?  (save the poor customers from evil gatekeepers and their predatory business practices)  

 

like yes, google does a lot of bad stuff but they will not tell you what you can or cannot install on your phone... this is why this thread is all about apple "protecting their customers" because apple traditionally does not allow that. 

 

ps: it even warns you twice, already at download (which i frankly have no problem with)

 

 

and yes,  this will install, even on galaxy phone, had it installed for years... (but currently i have no use for any stores,  my phone is full : P)

 

 

[thewelshbrummie]

16 hours ago, Obioban said:

Consider how difficult it is to unsubscribe from some services. E.g. with the New York Times you have to mail them a certified letter. Gym memberships are often similar.

Companies are trying to keep this as the status quo but the FTC is at least trying to block that from continuing. Unsurprisingly it's cable companies mouthing off with the loudest voices to attempt to keep the rules as they are.

 

Sirius XM comes to mind - we signed up for a cheap trial and got both app and car radio access. Cancelled online and after a few months discovered that while the app stopped working and the price dropped a little, we still had car service and were paying for it. Phone cancellation only despite being an online signup.

 

Basically told them we were cancelling and weren't coming back until they allowed online cancellation. With any luck the FTC will force them into making that change.