Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ImpliedSilence]

3 minutes ago, phje said:

And so, there it is. This WAS for drama and an attempt to hurt a competitor. Most of the criticisms Steve presents in the original video are valid, actually, probably all of them. Steve SHOULD have reached out to LMG for comment on the Billet Labs situation. They reported on it with half the story (the half that fit their narrative) Even IF LMG would have tried to spin the narrative back towards showing them in a good light. This is how it works, you let the audience decide, poor reporting.

This only proves Linus straight up LIED about the Billet debacle...if you calling Steve having ALL the receipts drama, so be it.

[Alex T88]

10 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

That's not even what gaslighting means. No one is trying to influence your perception of reality. They're telling you what happened and what they did about it. You just don't like it because all you can think of is yourself. "That's not good enough." "We deserve better." If I didn't know any better I'd think you lay in bed next to Linus every night.

First of all, I was polite in addressing yourself and everyone else. I did not make any personal assumptions about yourself. I state facts, based on evidence. And I am old and scarred just enough to see when somebody is lying. Speaking of semantics, you clearly can't differentiate between a mistake, a lie and something done on purpose. Linus (and unfortunately LMG) have been in the business of gaslighting for a while now, it's nothing new. To be more precise, gaslighting has a way more broader spectrum that you define it to be, it's definitely not limited to the first thing that pops up on Google. Do your proper research, get an education on the subject, because both are free. And when you have something solid to bring in play, I'll be more than happy to respond. This will be my last comment in regards to your baseless replies. Have a great day!

[Fardin]

Utterly gobsmacked by the fact, LTT could auction off a prototype of something that a start-up has worked off to create. What kind of greedy brain Linus has developed to do that to a small start up? Compensation or not, How could he think of doing that?. Never imagined i'd see this from Linus. 

[wanderingfool2]

5 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

If that's the case then vote with your feet and leave. No one's keeping you here.

That's like saying, well a bank is ripping off it's customers; just go away silently and not raise awareness.

 

When a wrong is committed, it does no good sitting idly by and not trying to get things rectified.

[jooroth18]

17 minutes ago, Haxaclappa said:

GN'S response: 

 

All i can hope at this point is Linus needs to actually sits down and do self reflection. Unlike GN, im willing to believe an apologetic second response, but if Linus doubles down again, i think an unsub is warranted.

 

 

@LinusTech WATCH THE VIDEOS THIS TIME PLEASE, AND DO NOT MAKE A RESPONSE UNTIL YOU HAVE THOUGHT IT THROUGH CAREFULLY.

 

- a deeply dissapointed fan.

[Uttamattamakin]

First much respect to LTT For not wanting to stifle discussion of this on the forum.  

 

Reacting to what Steve from Gamers Nexus and what HUB said in their clip is this.  The issue of the Billet prototype IS the issue.  The rest is just an honest mistake here and there.  The gist of the reviews stand up most of the time. That a *080 *070 or *060 will disappoint someone to varying degrees if they are wanting a little of what the top of the line can give them stands up.  

Find a way to make the Billet labs issue right.  Get that device back from who bought it, get it back to Billet (sp?) and then be transparent about errors going forward. 
 

[Knopfjim]

18 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

Steve has views like someone who never let more than 10 people.

I recently started in my role as production manager (200 man production) in a newly created plant. We have the same challenges as LMG. Processes need to be formed, teams need to be created and motivated. And then you can start with the quality of production. That takes time, it's not something you can do in a year.

I would give Tarren the chance to create something before we label LMG as lazy.

My only tip for @LinusTech would be to first focus on Quality than on output and lastly on monetization. I know the monetization parts he already has in last place but think about changing to quality first and quantity second. 

 

[Middcore]

So Linus gave the impression in his response yesterday that LTT and Billet had already worked out compensation, and that all that remained was to send the check (which will be sent, trust me bro), and that Steve would have found this out if he'd asked.

 

Yet Billet Labs tells GN that they heard nothing from LTT until after GN's first video dropped yesterday, when someone from LTT presumably reaches out in a sudden panic so that Linus can "truthfully" say "Yeah it's all been worked out."

[SOCOM_HERO]

Dang Steve just put out a response to Linus' post. Dude is not giving up on this. (nor should he)

[Uttamattamakin]

6 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

For the love of God @LinusTech, at least have the courage to say you messed up. Straight up LYING about Billet is beyond sad. I have lost all faith this is even reversible. Seriously. Stepping down is the least you can do at this point.

He has people.  Is it possible his people didn't tell him the full truth? 

 

 

[japers]

59 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

 

No, its not. It is not legally, or morally, or otherwise required for a journalist to contact someone they are doing a story on of this type

 

Yes it is...Youre very wrong on this.
 

https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

 

"Diligently seek subjects of news coverage to allow them to respond to criticism or allegations of wrongdoing."

[suits]

12 minutes ago, SOCOM_HERO said:

Dang Steve just put out a response to Linus' post. Dude is not giving up on this.

Have a link? How self-righteous is it?

 

Edit:

Here's the link:

 

Actually not that self-righteous. Also if what Steve says is true Linus should be ashamed as he 100% manipulated the timeline of that's the case. 

[bsweaney]

I came here to read Linus’ post. It misses the heart of this matter. Steve started with a clip that could be perceived as attacking his process / credibility. LMG is the party who broke decorum, and shouldn’t expect Steve to return that with any respect. “How dare they imply my methods are lazy, just look at what they’ve been up to lately?!?” is a natural reaction and I didn’t see much acknowledgement of that.

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, Uttamattamakin said:

He has people.  Is it possible his people didn't tell him the full truth? 

 

 

Perhaps the aliens are against him. Who knows what will happen next, right? XD

[RockerBug17]

13 minutes ago, zeroality said:

So Compensating for the prototype is a lie from LMG. Proof from Billet themselves: 

Yeah I'm done with LMG wondering if I can return my backpack and my 3d down jacket 

Yea, that timeline doesn't sit well with me. Very much changes my perspective.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

1 minute ago, Middcore said:

So Linus gave the impression in his response yesterday that LTT and Billet had already worked out compensation, and that all that remained was to send the check (which will be sent, trust me bro), and that Steve would have found this out if he'd asked.

 

Yet Billet Labs tells GN that they heard nothing from LTT until after GN's first video dropped yesterday, when someone from LTT presumably reaches out in a sudden panic so that Linus can "truthfully" say "Yeah it's all been worked out."

I think this revelation just jumped to being the worst part of this whole thing now.

[Arkhen]

I've watched Linus, on/off, ever since the days of NCIX.  I certainly haven't always agreed with the content he, and his team, has produced, but to see the level of neglect and doubling/tripling down, documented by GN, is incredibly sad and disappointing.

[AlienALX]

1 minute ago, SOCOM_HERO said:

Dang Steve just put out a response to Linus' post. Dude is not giving up on this. (nor should he)

 

He won't. And nor should he.

[dustypaws]

3 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

He has people.  Is it possible his people didn't tell him the full truth? 

 

 

What does that tell you about your leadership capabilities...?

[jazz3601]

linus just straight up lying 

[Godiwa]

17 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Compensated Billet for prototype 

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings

Promise to do better in the future 

 

What more could they possibly do at this point?

Lets see:
1. get their prototype BACK...I don't care what he has to pay the buyer and if the buyer resist then kindly remind them that it is stolen goods so if they don't deliver it back they are also a criminal so offering double what they paid for their trouble would be alright... then get a courier to pick it up and hand deliver to Billet Labs ASAP...

2. Fine they acknowledge it... Are they actually gonna do something about it?

3. Like they have done before and changed nothing? Not good enough... There must be REAL change...

[doncerdo]

8 hours ago, FadedSpark said:

Way too hot of a take.

 

Last night I was all over here talking about what I think should happen etc etc and Linus looking inward is definitely prime on the list but damn, this is aggressive.

 

You ever feel pride in something? You ever feel protective of something or someone? That's I'm certain how Linus feels every day. About LTT/LMG, his family, his friends, and co-workers. It's not a bad thing that he feels this way, until he compromised their and his credibility and the only justification we can see is cold hard cash.

 

There's the no one should buy this excuse about the waterblock, and to that I think Linus should hand in his enthusiast card and give up all his cool projects he's got going, like his remote gaming computers, his pool cooled server rack etc. He did that for the same reason billet made that block, to be the best, cost be damned. He should recognize that, because he lives that life daily. It's not for everyone, but it is for someone.

 

He should have reframed his view on the product as an incredibly niche product, not just a waterblock.

 

Ironically, his out of touch reaction on this one was in the opposite direction, and more in line with average consumer response.

 

It's not narcissism unless it continues. Until then, it's pride, a (REALLY) bad take, and poor judgement/bad leadership.

 

He can fix that. If he crosses the line in to narcissism? Well, that's game over.

You never really do watch the WAN show do you? As with LMG's mistakes, this is a behavioral pattern for Linus. The f you don't care attitude is part of LMG's corporate culture's DNA now, as seen on  the dismissive comment of a random labs employee regarding GN and HUB. Good leadership would never lead to an outburst like that. It's sad that Terren will have his hands tied on this one. I genuenly believe he could make things better with a mentally sound owner. 

 

UPDATE: since you think this is a "way too hot" take. Sit down an just listen...the problem with Linus is pathological and no, it's not a hot take. 

 

[Chrisfow87]

Linus has said many times that the way a company handles criticism is how it should be judged. This terrible response from him shows exactly how we should judge LMG.  As someone who has watched for years and years, I find that sad, but it’s true nonetheless.

[Paul Thexton]

16 hours ago, izan TM said:

here's the thing, if you aren't controling for those variables, can you even be considered a lab?

I absolutely agree with that, variables that could cause differences should be controlled but if not then at least declared so that discrepancies can be understood 

[Zberg]

Steve out here doing actual journalism.  Love the dude.

 

I feel bad that LTT is taking a turn for the worse.  Have always loved this forum, learned to build my first PC with LTT videos, loved scrapyard wars and other videos like it.  I haven't made a conscious effort to unsub or anything, but have found myself just never being interested enough to click their videos.  

 

The lab stuff always seemed like a bad idea.  I remember saying to myself at the time...why are you investing so much money for something that other people already do way better?  There are already established alternatives that cover this kind of boring (no offense, GN) content in depth, and do it very well.  What is the return on investment on boring numbers?  And then when you get it up and running, you make non stop errors?  "you had ONE JOB lab!" is what comes to mind.  If I buy a TI-89 I dont need it to do much other than graph functions for me.  If it cant do that correctly, then it is a very large waste of money.  The lab seems to be that times a million.

 

The Billet labs contrasted to the Noctua shilling is pretty gross.  You didn't use their prototype correctly, then actively shit all over it potentially losing them tons of business, then auctioned it off...then lied about compensating them for it...while shilling for Noctua (obviously a great company, I know) in scenarios where they either were under capacity or there were better cheaper options...when you have a partnership with them...  Its all a very gross look, and its looking much more like a soulless corporate operation nowadays and much less like the guys in the kitchen set up building a PC, or linus vs luke scouring the internet to make an awesome PC.  These responses to situations seem much less like what Linus has always seemed like, and much more how I would assume Amazon would deal with companies.

 

Ive gotten tons of great info from LTT and their forum, so Im not unsubbing or deleting accounts or anything,  because I do feel that they have done a lot of good for the community as a whole, but it really seems like they are losing their way and need to get back on the right track.