Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Sybaris_Caesar]

3 minutes ago, RichardBirch said:

Watching at 2x speed hence my quick reply - wow. There was NOTHING from LMG to Billet Labs until this video went live.

 

That's an open a shut case right there. Utterly staggering. This keeps getting worse somehow.

Yeah. Linus done goofed up. Should've made a response after having a sleep. Preferably a few days of sleep.

[Dom1252]

8 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Then that's an assumed risk when they sent their prototype to LMG. The ways they could have lost it are infinite. 

oh ok, then no one ever should send anything to LMG, if they are so reckless

[ToboRobot]

7 minutes ago, Haxaclappa said:

GN'S response: 

 

The timeline for the Billet Labs issue is problematic.

[RichardBirch]

2 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Compensated Billet for prototype 

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings

Promise to do better in the future 

 

What more could they possibly do at this point?

Watch the latest GN video. Read Billets response. They are not happy about what happened. They didn't want to be 'compensated' for the prototype.

[YZF-RX]

2 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Compensated Billet for prototype 

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings

Promise to do better in the future 

 

What more could they possibly do at this point?

Compensated Billet for prototype - Check the updated GN post, they only said they would after they got called out 3 hours AFTER GN posted the original video

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings - Still feels like an empty promise as according to the video they stopped responding to Billet and instead doubled down on hating in the WAN show.

Promise to do better in the future - Yet another empty platitude, just wait till money gets involved again and corners will be cut.

[djenson]

Im staggered. Who is running LMG? How did billet not get compo until the GN vid. Jesus christ. This just took a dark turn. The respect for LTT is falling through the floor. 

[RockerBug17]

3 minutes ago, Alex T88 said:

It's called damage control and blatant lying. Excuse me, if I refuse to believe such nonsense. They are digging themselves or at least Linus is digging himself and his company, deeper into an hole. It's a bloody prototype, a one of a kind exemplary, which they agreed to return to Billet Labs on the 30th of June. A month later they auction it. "Mistake"... what are they ?! 5 year olds running a 100 million company. This is BS and gaslighting at it's finest, which is sickening. I might have believed them if they had forgotten it in a warehouse. But not auctioning a one of a kind piece and saying they made a mistake. Making a mistake is when he drops stuff (even though he might be doing it on purpose sometimes). This was definitely made on purpose, because why not. Exactly like they did with the review. Doing everything in their power to discredit Billet Labs. Some would say, that someone might have had a hidden agenda. And the sheer hypocrisy about not changing his conclusion about the prototype even if they did right by Billet Labs and reviewing it as intended... coming from the guy who uses his pool to water cool a PC. Ridiculous !

That's not even what gaslighting means. No one is trying to influence your perception of reality. They're telling you what happened and what they did about it. You just don't like it because all you can think of is yourself. "That's not good enough." "We deserve better." If I didn't know any better I'd think you lay in bed next to Linus every night.

[coopa]

14 minutes ago, yobson said:

gamers nexus has already posted a response to the response

Steve is correctly calling out Linus for the word salad here ("sell" vs "accidentally auctioned", an auction is a type of sale) and for nonsense claims (like that the Billet labs prototype could not be meaningfully re-tested with the proper GPU), how inaccurate many of the benchmarks were and how that was not addressed in any way in any detail and how any root cause analysis/preventative action to prevent it from happening again in the future, etc...
 

Quote

We're not going to drag this out and make a whole new standalone video about this response, because they haven't added anything of substance. The response is immature, it's blaming others, and it's irresponsible to the community they've built.

Some points:

• Called out that it being put up for charitable auction was actually worse as it roped an innocent third party (the charity) into a messy situation (LMG selling something they didn't own)
• Billet labs did not previously agree to accept compensation for the lost prototype as of the time Linus posted his statement on these forums! (4m5s into video)
  
  GN to Billet asking for comment:

Quote

[Linus' comment] doesn't expressly say it, but it seems to imply that this agreement was made previously?

Billet's response to GN:

Quote

No, absolutely not. No, no, no. The only mention of any moneyto do with the prototype was our response to them [after they said] they'd auctioned it, and we basically said, you know, that was a $[REDACTED] prototype.

 

"I said: 'do you plan to reimburse us for this?' And we heard nothing. We didn't get a response until your video."

So Linus weasel words it to make it seem like LMG had already reached an amicable settlement for the prototype prior to the GN video publication, when in fact LMG did not offer to compensate Billet labs for the auctioned prototype until GN published this video.

Man. Still watching this and it is getting worse and worse.

[JiRoDev]

51 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

No, what I'm saying is that if you rewrite the game for a different platform you're also going to be making other adjustments, and by no means will the game represent the same load or achieve the exact same graphics fidelity, we already see this when you apply a different graphics API on the same platform, so yes, you will get a different visual quality. So I'm really curious as to why you think it won't make a difference for this benchmark across different systems? There's no reason why "medium graphics" on platform A is the same as it is on platform B, and you damn well know it. So it could very well be one system is handling a far more difficult workload than the other, and comparing the graphics output to find traces of this is going to be ridiculously difficult and a complete waste of time most likely, so unless if you write an entire very basic boring benchmark suite that tests each aspect of the GPU individually, there's no real point in comparing. 

Assuming devs just can't stop the temptation of changing visuals alongside a platform port, your solution is let's instead use OpenGL/Vulkan on a platform that doesn't support them, what a great idea, and looks like you realized how stupid that is when I said how about windows emulates Metal and watch 80% of the GPU performance evaporates. Anyway, many devs don't change the visual quality with their port, No Man's Sky is the latest high-profile game that came to Mac natively and the devs said that they did not make it any different than the windows build, all they did was implement Metal, they didn't touch post processing, GI, mesh complexity, textures, nothing. And that makes it perfect for a comparison, 3D mark wild life extreme is also offering the same visual quality on both DX and Metal, making it one of the most perfect benchmarks, Dolphin emulator isn't since it's using OpenGL, an API deprecated for like 5 years now, no matter how you argue against it you simply can't defend how misleading LTT was in their pathetic review.

 

[Dom1252]

3 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Compensated Billet for prototype 

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings X

Promise to do better in the future - somewhat?

 

What more could they possibly do at this point?

Acknowledge LMG shortcomings maybe? 

I mean, Linus said basically "sorry we are bunch of kids and have no idea what we're doing" but no response from CEO and no response about 90% of stuff in GN video? 

not a single time Linus said "sorry I messed up" - he just doubles down, downplaying any criticism, gaslights... 

[ToboRobot]

GN video goes into the lack of reaching out for comment and provides their justification for their choice.

It seemed reasonable to me.

[Silveraga]

7 minutes ago, Haxaclappa said:

GN'S response: 

 

If what Steve is saying here is true, that means that Linus is twisting the narrative with yesterdays answer... I REALLY hope that there's a PROPER answer this time. With a full timeline so we can understand properly the situation and that Linus brings a good answer with tangible solution to resolve the issues . 

[Alex T88]

Just now, RockerBug17 said:

What more could they possibly do at this point?

Linus has already done enough. His post says it all. The first few sentences, where he says he would have wanted for Steve to reach personally to him on private channels (probably in order to sweep the "bad" stuff under the rug and to portray everything in a much favourable manner and all else) is proof enough for me, where Linus is coming from and how willing he is to change. I am 100% certain that he is the one calling the shots, at least in regards to their media content, testing and so on. The new CEO, is most probably a puppet, who will be the perfect scape goat, in case things will start going sour, from a legal standpoint. 

[R_M_Renfield]

Holy crap they didn't agree to pay for the prototype until called out by Steve. This is absolutely unacceptable. This insane misleading information isn't what i've come to expect from LTT and as someone who attended LTX I can't express how disappointed I am by this.

[throwawayManMode]

16 minutes ago, yobson said:

gamers nexus has already posted a response to the response

Looks like Linus straight up lied about working to send them payment for the prototype

[RockerBug17]

10 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Congratulations, you don't understand a thing.

 

 

LMG doesn't have integrity.  If they did, they would have corrected their 30 seconds of discussing the price of Infinite Cables when they were off by the price by a factor of 5x.  Like claiming a $5000+ cable was sub $1000; even going as far as "checking the invoice" jokes because it was so cheap.  I looked at the cable at the time, and posted my findings here and they were ignored.  

 

They are the ones who had gotten Alex flown down to report on the Toyota Mirai and didn't think of disclosing.
 

When talking about facts and correcting facts, yes LMG has no integrity in my viewpoint.

 

It doesn't matter if you think that GN should have reached out, that's a drop in the hat compared to the issues he brought up...even if you think not contacting Linus first (after Linus publicly called him out, without contacting GN as well) was a big deal; it doesn't invalidate any of what was said as what GN said is overall true.  So go by what Buffalo Springfield said "Nobodies right if everybody's wrong"

 

Don't confuse being paid for a prototype as "both are satisfied".  I've seen more than enough of my fair share of business encounters where they aren't satisfied but an agreement is reached because the smaller party just doesn't have the resources to essentially fight it out (or that it would in general cost them more to not settle even if it's a bad settlement).

 

There's only so many mess up's people are also willing to take.  How many times now have we seen Linus come out saying things like he was wrong, and that he will do better.  He clearly doesn't learn his lessons and doesn't change things to make things better.  Like the time he spouted off major inaccuracies about Musk on the WAN show, which was statements made by his writers, then the next WAN show he was forced to correct all the mistakes...then he proceeded to puke up more inaccuracies.  So yea, I think people are finally realizing that LMG isn't that "trust me bro" type of company Linus paints themselves as.

 

Linus' response also very much read of the insulting GN; instead of an apology and pledge to do better.

If that's the case then vote with your feet and leave. No one's keeping you here.

[phje]

10 minutes ago, Haxaclappa said:

GN'S response: 

 

And so, there it is. This WAS for drama and an attempt to hurt a competitor. Most of the criticisms Steve presents in the original video are valid, actually, probably all of them. Steve SHOULD have reached out to LMG for comment on the Billet Labs situation. They reported on it with half the story (the half that fit their narrative) Even IF LMG would have tried to spin the narrative back towards showing them in a good light. This is how it works, you let the audience decide, poor reporting.

[AlienALX]

Linus says, and I quote - £700 billet block is an egregious waste of money"

 

 

So why did you not try and talk him out of spending that much on a PC, that was, hilariously, an egregious waste of money.

 

Further more, how much did the TV stand you bought recently and then boasted about cost? wasn't it $15k or something like that?

 

Dude you so out of touch you've already reached Mars. Tell Elon he lost.

[fade]

[Cosmic Emotion]

For the love of God @LinusTech, at least have the courage to say you messed up. Straight up LYING about Billet is beyond sad. I have lost all faith this is even reversible. Seriously. Stepping down is the least you can do at this point.

[yobson]

Just now, throwawayManMode said:

Looks like Linus straight up lied about working to send them payment for the prototype

yep. the "we received a quote" is nothing but a lie. they only said the value of the prototype, they never gave any quote which i imagine should be higher than just the cost of the prototype itself since it being missing has caused them production issues and such. just shows linus's arrogance the fact that he thought he could just rush out a quick reply on the forums with lies sprinkled in and then shove this under the rug and never address it again.

[coopa]

Just now, throwawayManMode said:

Looks like Linus straight up lied about working to send them payment for the prototype

Linus used weasel words.

LMG sold Billet's prototype (charitable auction, but an auction is a form of sale) without permission, and when Billet asked for it back, they disclosed that. When Billet mentioned the value of the prototype and asked for compensation, LMG ignored their emails.

Then when GN publishes the video criticizing what LMG did, LMG replies "yeah we'll compensate you for the lost prototype". Linus then posts about here about how they "already agreed" to compensate Billet in his response here.

The nature of the way he worded it is made to make you think that Billet reached an amicable agreement to the whole unfortunate scenario (one of LMG's creation) BEFORE Gamers Nexus made their video, when in fact, they only did so AFTER Steve called attention to it in the video.

[baK1]

21 hours ago, jkh_ said:

I do agree that LMG is skewing too far on the quantity > quality side. It's clear that they one-take things too often, and the pace is self-imposed as Steve mentioned. That said, were I Steve I would have at least attempted to bring this to Linus privately. His concerns are valid, but I'm not sure I buy the "I'm not doing this for drama" pitch. This is absolutely drama, whether you monetized the video or not. I believe Steve sees an existential threat to his business in LMG Labs and wants to publicly hurt its credibility. I guess I just think there is a more professional way this could have been approached. If Steve took it to Linus and Linus reacted negatively or unprofessionally, then you can release a video and preface it with the fact that you tried to resolve this privately first.

"This is absolutely drama"

lmao nuh uh

https://youtu.be/X3byz3txpso?t=471

[Skipple]

19 hours ago, LinusTech said:

could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype).

Given GN's latest follow-up on this. I'm really upset the way you portrayed this. You specifically said that Steven should have spoken to you and that you had agreed to payment... however, the agreement to payment didn't happen until AFTER Steve's video was published. 

 

Linus, I have been a pretty big defender of you when I thought defense was warranted, but this is kinda disgusting.

You have really let us down here. 

I'm sad.

[Sybaris_Caesar]

5 minutes ago, RichardBirch said:

Watch the latest GN video. Read Billets response. They are not happy about what happened. They didn't want to be 'compensated' for the prototype.

And compensation offer came only after GN video. Damn! I really hope Linus mans up, apologizes and right what's wrong.

NOT "boo hoo I'm gonna step away for a sabbatical" or some shit. I genuinely like him (or his YT persona). But not enough fanboy over him like some of the forum posters I'm seeing. Geez talk about second hand cringe I'm feeling.