Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Hobbit]

8 hours ago, Leksi T said:

It's tough.  Is kinda why I was more than just hinting that Linus should stop posting last night.  I have little doubt that yesterday he probably lacked info or even that he people around him had enough time to dig into this.  I understand that Linus has a huge amount of faith in his team, and I can understand him wanting to get in front of this and defend himself and his team.  However, I wonder if he was more than just a little panicky yesterday, and in this case, I could have understood him taking some time to prepare something.  I don't mean, like, PR style say alot of words but say nothing.  But, go back to his team, do some digging internally, and then have something solid to say.

 

On the other hand, I know it's GN's style to keep the pressure on, but this new vid... It's very difficult to see this as more than an attack now, despite good points Steve may have raised.  I can only imagine that this type of barrage is only going to make it alot harder for LMG to say anything publicly. At this point if I was leading LMG I'd be very tempted to hire PR writers and turtle up.  Which would destroy LMG, in a few ways.  And it's not good for the space to lose LMG. It doesn't feel like there's any warning shots from GN here. They're straight up hitting them where it hurts, and they're not letting up.

100% the current ceo is shitting himself and probably told linus to keep it quiet and decide what to talk about/not talk about. Despite what he said he'll end up talking at least a little bit about this "drama" on WAN. Idc what anyone says, shill or not this response was just terrible and let on more than it should've. If he didn't say anything about the auction GN probably wouldn't even have done an update on the situation. 

 

Even if i agree on a lot of stuff with GN, all of this shouldn't be pointed at Linus. He clearly has been told too much BS from his team or he wouldn't be so confident talking publicly about easy to prove lies. (benchmarks being re-done for older stuff, the sum agreed on for Billet labs compensation) 

 

I know haters will say i'm just shilling for linus on this but let's be honest, there is NO WAY you'd lie about something GN can prove wrong with 1 email. I have been here way too long to hate on Linus as a person, he has proven way too many time that he's a nice guy so i can't point any malice at him. Ingenuity? maybe

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

1 minute ago, xg32 said:

the benchmarks shown by the lab so far has been a complete joke, it'd take years/if ever to close that kinda gap.

The average person isn’t watching 30 reviews on an item. They are clicking on the first search result in YouTube. Is LTT being served #1 or is GN? That’s the only relevant point.

[ChumleyTGT]

Just now, Cosmic Emotion said:

Ok so after putting some thought into it, Linus is a hazard to not only LMG but to Framework as well. I would honestly either fix my shiz before moving on or simply step down so the companies I am involved with do not get a massive hit (especially in the case of Framework since enthusiasts seriously won't like Linus moving on).

Funny that Linus stepped down rather suddenly as CEO not that long ago. And uh why would it be good for Linus to take his money out of Framework? @Cosmic Emotion 

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Saeumii said:

sure. you don't have to agree with his thinking, but you should at least understand it

What on earth is defensible about refusing to properly review a product and saying it isn't an issue that he didn't? If LTT/LMG want to be taken seriously as reviewers with accurate data, you can't turn around and say "Doing it wrong is OK because I was still right in the end." We don't know that the result would be the same, because we didn't get the test done correctly.

[RevengeofProfKatz]

1 minute ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

 I got turned off by GN during their last round of “investigative journalism” where they claim to be these journalists who are investigating and holding people’s feet to the fire but at the same time one of the tenets of the SPJ Code of ethics literally requires journalists to allow subjects to respond to allegations of wrongdoing, yet they “don’t have to do that.”

 

Not going to bother commenting on anything else you said because much of this was discussed over 80 pages prior etc by multiple people including myself. But it should be noted, the SPJ is a fraternal organization, originally known as Sigma Delta Chi. It is not the same thing, or on the same level as the IPSO or RCFP, which do not require a journalist to contact the subject of a story in a matter such as this. And as far as I am aware, Gamers Nexus is not a part of the SPJ organization, and is not required to follow their laid out Code of Ethics, which unfortunately was designed in such a way that it can conflict with itself. Per my prior post, had Gamers Nexus been a member, and contacted LMG, it would have violated/conflicted with other requirements laid out in the SPJ Code of Ethics that I posted for general consumption, that revolve around:

1. Deny favored treatment to advertisers, donors or any other special interests, and resist internal and external pressure to influence coverage.

2. Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived. Disclose unavoidable conflicts.

3. Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and avoid political and other outside activities that may compromise integrity or impartiality, or may damage credibility.

4. Expose unethical conduct in journalism, including within their organizations.

And as stated prior, this one in particular applies to Linus/LMG/LTT, since they have consistently failed to do so:
Abide by the same high standards they expect of others.


You can read the post here, but the basic gist of it is, even though they are not with the SPJ, Gamers Nexus checked off more boxes on the SPJ Code of Ethics than they were ever expected to do:
 

 

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

2 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Oh we're still doing this one, huh? There is no requirement for journalists to contact the subject of a story.

Yeah, it is only required if you want to conduct yourself ethically.

 

https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

[bandainamcofan]

3 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

Are they or are they not direct competitors?

Irrelevant to the question of if he feels "threatened" or not. You simply can't know.

[Cosmic Emotion]

1 minute ago, ChumleyTGT said:

Funny that Linus stepped down rather suddenly as CEO not that long ago. And uh why would it be good for Linus to take his money out of Framework? @Cosmic Emotion 

I did say he should fix the wrongs he's done if he doesn't want the companies he's involved with to take the hit. Because, moving forward, his credibility will be questioned. A LOT.

[soysauceonrice]

1 minute ago, bandainamcofan said:

Oh we're still doing this one, huh? There is no requirement for journalists to contact the subject of a story.

The Code makes clear in Clause 1 (Accuracy) that the press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information or images, including headlines not supported by the text. This means that sometimes it might be necessary to contact an individual to ensure care is taken over the accuracy of what is published.

 

Where is the factual support for GN suggesting that a competitor bought the block ?  Would you not agree that, raising the possibility of a competitor buying the Billet block as a form of IP theft, to be misleading or distorted information ?  Especially when you can just contact the subject of the investigation and ASK who bought the block, if you were really concerned with who bought the block ?

[Drazil100]

3 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

Ok so after putting some thought into it, Linus is a hazard to not only LMG but to Framework as well. I would honestly either fix my shiz before moving on or simply step down so the companies I am involved with do not get a massive hit (especially in the case of Framework since enthusiasts seriously won't like Linus moving on).

Disagree. Not all of this is on Linus alone. Just cause he is the face, and just because his reply was garbage, doesn't mean that he was the one that made any of the mistakes himself (other than choosing not to test on the correct card). He definitely shares in the blame for everything as it's his company and he was CEO when all of this happened. But there are many people working at LMG besides Linus making all of these mistakes with him. Linus keeps his staff out of trouble just as much as they keep him out of trouble. 

[Empyreal]

Most people here sidetracking about Steve's journalist integrity as though that's going to invalidate factual errors found in LTT's review data, and mishandling of Billet Labs. Of course, not discounting the pwnage mouse fiasco.

 

Also, there wasn't any agreement to pay for the missing waterblock until GN posted the video. I don't know what blinded rabid LTT fangirls are on about here.

 

 

This whole revelation makes the following statement by Linus a very scummy attempt at misdirecting readers to think that LTT and BL have come to a settlement before GN posted the video, and that if Steve approached him first, there wouldn't be any "misunderstanding".

 

On 8/15/2023 at 5:25 AM, LinusTech said:

AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype).

 

 

[Amaninacity]

9 minutes ago, DeatheTech said:

This is nonsense, I could find several instances in tech videos where Intel supplies a motherboard with their CPUs for testing as well as AMD. Supplying a reviewer with something to assist in properly testing the product is a standard practice with a lot of components.

Supplying the part to be tested is different. They could have chosen a golden sample, rather than one representative of their internal testing. You would want to test on an unaffiliated card.

[dwkekciej]

8 minutes ago, xg32 said:

As for Billet Labs, LMG has to pay them back, no public apology needed imo.

I was originally thinking a public apology would mean more, but I think you convinced me that whatever satisfies Billet is sufficient. LTT needs to apologize to GN and their audience, but for different reasons.

[Cosmic Emotion]

6 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

Disagree. Not all of this is on Linus alone. Just cause he is the face, and just because his reply was garbage, doesn't mean that he was the one that made any of the mistakes himself (other than choosing not to test on the correct card). He definitely shares in the blame for everything as it's his company and he was CEO when all of this happened. But there are many people working at LMG besides Linus making all of these mistakes with him. Linus keeps his staff out of trouble just as much as they keep him out of trouble. 

Well if we nitpick then Linus could be completely off then and the other people take the blame lol. Linus's lie about Billet alone is an insane credibility loss. He should have thought twice before posting that.

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, soysauceonrice said:

The Code makes clear in Clause 1 (Accuracy) that the press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information or images, including headlines not supported by the text. This means that sometimes it might be necessary to contact an individual to ensure care is taken over the accuracy of what is published.

 

Where is the factual support for GN suggesting that a competitor bought the block ?  Would you not agree that, raising the possibility of a competitor buying the Billet block as a form of IP theft, to be misleading or distorted information ?  Especially when you can just contact the subject of the investigation and ASK who bought the block, if you were really concerned with who bought the block ?

He never said it happened, he said it was possible, which it most certainly was. 

[throwawayManMode]

5 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

he has proven way too many time that he's a nice guy so i can't point any malice at him.

You don't care if he lies to your face as long as he's "a nice guy"? LOL

[SpaceCorgi]

@LinusTech
I have watched LMG videos for at least eight years and have been a GN fan for around half that time. Steve said, "this is uncomfortable," and he was highly accurate. GN poised valid issues that need to be addressed by LMG. 

 

I believe that GN poised issues that are weighted vastly differently, and the community of LMG can handle inaccuracies in the videos; overall - most people come here for 80% personality and 20% hardcore tech review. The issue that most of us cannot come to terms with is the Billet issue. An appropriate response to this issue would be a public apology to Billet in the form of what LMG does best, their videos (wan show possibly). 

 

One of these issues is systemic; one of these issues is abysmal communication and/or mismanagement. 

The ball is in your court, LMG; play your cards correctly, and this is water under the bridge. Continue this path of half-baked responses and risk being compared to mega-corporations with no soul for the rest of your existence.
 

Respectfully,

A fan.

[P1ro]

Just now, Drazil100 said:

Disagree. Not all of this is on Linus alone. Just cause he is the face, and just because his reply was garbage, doesn't mean that he was the one that made any of the mistakes himself (other than choosing not to test on the correct card). He definitely shares in the blame for everything as it's his company and he was CEO when all of this happened. But there are many people working at LMG besides Linus making all of these mistakes with him. Linus keeps his staff out of trouble just as much as they keep him out of trouble. 

That's not how it works. You can't just absolve responsibility from Linus just because he wasn't the only person directly involved in these mistakes. Yes, it's not all his *fault* but it IS all his *responsibility* as the owner of the company, the person who was hands on in nearly all examples of issues, and certainly as the person who makes the decisions about how their content is created, reviewed and how errors are handled. That's how it works. This is all on Linus at the end of the day.

[Saeumii]

5 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

To me it's not about trying to find a different conclusion, it's about having the journalistic integrity to give every product you cover the best chance it can have to sell itself or fail trying to the market that would be willing to buy it. I am positive the conclusion would have been the same and you are right that it would have been a waste of time if the only reason you were retesting was to maybe get a different conclusion. But the conclusion isn't what this is about.

 

Edit: They made a clear move to make a piece of entertainment over making an actual review.

you don't have to agree with his thinking, but you should at least understand it, rather than making bad faith accusations [like i've seen some people do]

[RevengeofProfKatz]

22 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

Billet has a post on Reddit saying LTT told them they would pay them or they could get the item back from the buyer and they chose to take the money.

No, that is not what they said in their original post. They, Linus and LMG, have not offered to get the item back for Billet, and they blew Billet off literally until Gamers Nexus went live with their reporting. They have now finally offered to get it back, but at this point it would prolong progress for Billet, as Linus has already proven they cant be counted on for keeping their word, or sending items back in a decent agreed upon time frame. The block, and the 3090Ti that was with it, was supposed to be returned in July. Linus/LMG held onto it an entire month before selling it at their auction.
 

 

[ZombieMan762]

7 minutes ago, Chairman Boofy said:

The idea that anyone is threatened by the LTT "labs" when the LTT "labs" have done literally nothing beside being an off the cuff mention in a few videos for the past year or whatever they've been around is pretty funny to begin with.

 

This is something worth bringing up repeatedly. This should be viewed as a warning not a hit piece and doing Linus a favor and welcoming competition in the space but that GN beat them to the punch . It's been obvious for while that GN has been eating LTT's lunch when it comes to serious reviews and Linus put up the money to go after GN. Them buying test equipment is aimed straight at GN and the meme of people not taking LT reviews seriously. 

[soysauceonrice]

1 minute ago, bandainamcofan said:

He never said it happened, he said it was possible, which it most certainly was. 

But theorizing about what COULD happen is the opposite of fact-based reporting.  If you are reporting the facts, you report JUST THE FACTS.  You do not go down the slippery slope of potential horrible scenarios that COULD happen.  

 

Now, it's fine to ask questions -- that's what reporters do.  But reporters also try to ANSWER the question they ask.  You don't just throw up questions, and leave them unanswered when it is easy to get an answer.  Call up Linus/LMG and ask them who has the block.  How hard is this ?

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Saeumii said:

you don't have to agree with his thinking, but you should at least understand it, rather than making bad faith accusations [like i've seen some people do]

His reasoning is unprofessional when he wants LTT/LMG to be taken seriously as reviewers with accurate data. It doesn't matter if the thing was overpriced. People will overpay for things all the time simply because they want them. Even if only 1 person who ever saw the video wanted to buy it, if you're trying to be taken seriously as a reviewer, then you do the review properly for the sake of that potential one person.

[m9x3mos]

4 minutes ago, soysauceonrice said:

Where is the factual support for GN suggesting that a competitor bought the block ?  Would you not agree that, raising the possibility of a competitor buying the Billet block as a form of IP theft, to be misleading or distorted information ?  Especially when you can just contact the subject of the investigation and ASK who bought the block, if you were really concerned with who bought the block ?

This assumes the buyer would be honest if they were a competitor. I highly doubt they Linus would know because I doubt they require attendees to disclose who they work for. 

[Misanthrope]

Don't mind me I'm not actually back, but I obviously had my interest peaked enough to come watch Mr Linus fumble his way through this one, pure Schadenfreude for me skimming through hundreds of pages.

Also some people should come up with job offers for many of the valuable LTT employees that shouldn't be stuck on a sinking ship that cannot possibly keep the massive ego of his owner afloat (pun intended)