Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Saeumii]

3 minutes ago, infinitytec said:

It's still disingenuous, no matter what the end results were.
The video should not have been published with how poorly the tests were done.

perhaps they "should have" redone the test, just to provide accurate results, but linus' argument against doing so is valid; you wouldn't pay the same lawyer for a second opinion if you committed the exact same offense in two different situations, just as you wouldn't run the same test on different gpus if the water block is overpriced either way. the purpose of the video seemed to be more giving billet labs' manufacturing capabilities publicity than actually promoting the water block in question

[Chairman Boofy]

10 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

Yeah, a much larger company investing tens of millions into your little corner of the internet would never be threatening. LMAO

A much larger company with zero competence to do anything meaningful with it, as has recently been demonstrated LMAO

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

1 minute ago, theboysinthewoodz said:

Linus stated that before he had even spoke to Billet.  According to GN follow up video Billet said they hadn't even responded to Linus when he said that. 

Billet has a post on Reddit saying LTT told them they would pay them or they could get the item back from the buyer and they chose to take the money.

[Nucleosynthesis]

10 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

his conclusion would've been the same regardless... idk how many times i've said it, but i'll say it as many times as i need to. linus' conclusion was derived from the fact that there are many more affordable alternatives that are just as effective. no average joe is going to buy an $800 water block for his pc when a $100-200 one will work just as well

Point is that the viewer doesn't have to arrive at the same conclusion as the video host.

 

They can look at the data and arrive at their own. So it's important that the testing is compitent and the data is correct.

[bandainamcofan]

12 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

you seem to have missed my point, even though i very clearly said "wouldn't change his conclusion [there are cheaper options that offer the same performance] unless the block broke the laws of physics". it doesn't matter whether the test was favorable toward the monoblock or not. linus would still have said it's not worth the money

It doesn't matter if the cooler was the greatest or the worst. Someone might have wanted exactly that product or one like it and it's wildly unprofessional to not review it properly. 

[Drazil100]

6 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

perhaps they "should have" redone the test, just to provide accurate results, but linus' argument against doing so is valid; you wouldn't pay the same lawyer for a second opinion if you committed the exact same offense in two different situations, just as you wouldn't run the same test on different gpus if the water block is overpriced either way

To me it's not about trying to find a different conclusion, it's about having the journalistic integrity to give every product you cover the best chance it can have to sell itself or fail trying to the market that would be willing to buy it. I am positive the conclusion would have been the same and you are right that it would have been a waste of time if the only reason you were retesting was to maybe get a different conclusion. But the conclusion isn't what this is about.

 

Edit: They made a clear move to make a piece of entertainment over making an actual review.

[xg32]

43 minutes ago, PressleyPress said:

Let's assume that the mistakes found by GN are true. Okay fine. Those are mistakes that LTT needs to catch in the future. They've obviously got work to do.

 

But who made GN the YouTube Review police? I'm sure LTT could find instances of GN making mistakes and not catching them. Why is that content? Why not just keep producing your own reviews that compete with LTT's with the correct info? What's the motivation for calling out another channel? Gee I don't know, maybe to get your channel more attention?

 

Do you really think that GN is just worried about consumers? Sure they say they "demonetized" their first video, but that's not the only gains to made by making a hit piece. (And it is a hit piece. If you don't give the subject the chance to comment before publication, you're making a hit piece.) They've already made another video about Linus' reply, and there's already been many articles written about GN and their video. They sure are getting a lot of attention out of this one video.

 

This is only something that happens on Youtube when a smaller channel is pissed at another channel's popularity. You don't see TV news shows spending their time reporting on how some other news show reported something wrong. This is a uniquely YouTube thing because that's how smaller channels get attention by attacking larger channels and I find it petty.

 

I'm not giving LTT a pass on their mistakes, but I'm also not seeing GN as some sort of hero here. They did this for attention, and it's working. Otherwise they could have just made a video showing how their tests got different results and that they believe theirs to be more accurate. But in instead they produced a mini-documentary speculating on LTTs procedures, coming up with their own theories as to how LTT's mistakes were made, coming up with their own solutions for the process problems they guessed at, and all in the guise of protecting consumers. I call BS.

The gloves were off after Tim's comment on the twitter footage calling out GN/HUB, and the subsequent comments by linus on the wan show that Labs strives to be better/is better, while consistently showing bad data. It's also confirmed by GN/HUB that they've avoided calling out LTT for awhile now.

 

No matter what GN said in their first video, i believe the twitter clip was at least part of the reason they had to drop the video to claw back damaged reputation. Even if GN contacted LTT there are some who will still think LTT>GN when it comes to benchmarking because of what Tim said.

 

I don't agree with GN being the benchmark police either, only Steve knows his true intentions, but LTT called them out first, even if it was an employee. Linus didn't even understand why HUB was mad. LMG forced GN's hands and there's no half-assing a video like this, they either don't make the video or go all-in.

 

As for improving benchmark accuracy, the ones LTT did pre-Lab was better than the ones they do now, from what the lab has shown us, they either severely lack experience and/or qualification to do hardware benchmarks at the same level as HUB. (GN is overkill/has irrelevant data for me as a gamer). no amount of money thrown at the wall is gonna change that in a reasonable amount of time. I'd be happy if Linus proved me wrong.

 

As for Billet Labs, LMG has to pay them back, no public apology needed imo.

[ChumleyTGT]

1 minute ago, ChamoiPlayz said:

following GN's response to the forum post this cannot be how this conversation ends and I hope there's at least some collateral damage. And to everyone in the comments saying LTT has influenced many of your purchases over the years and you regret them and they aren't being held accountable... You made that purchase and although LTT definitely needs to improve massively with it's testing and QC it is very unfair to blame them for your disappointment with products.

Seems like a hot take by those particular individuals to believe LTT was ever the Tech exclusive version of Consumer Reports when that idea ala the Labs was only a gleam in Linus's eye not that long ago and is basically still in the baby stage.  

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

Just now, Chairman Boofy said:

A much larger company with zero competence to do anything with it, as has recently been demonstrated LMAO

LTT gets a million views a video. GN gets 60k. There’s no way you are arguing in good faith that GN isn’t concerningly threatened by the Lab

[mobriskie]

4 minutes ago, soysauceonrice said:

You got nothing right; you're putting words in my mouth.

 

The overwhelming majority of Steve's criticisms are valid.  They are.  You won't find anything where I suggested otherwise.  

 

But the failings of LMG in this fiasco have been well documented.  Steve's own conflict of interest, along with his own inappropriate guesses/hunches in a video that he claimed to be factual, have not been documented.  We can agree that LMG F'd up and still ask Steve to do a better job.  

I don't believe that GN has a conflict of interest with LMG.   LMG would have to come a loooooong way with accuracy and experience in running the equipment in their new lab before they even come close to GN's level of proper testing and attention to detail.   Steve took 40-ish minutes in his video as well as research time and time reaching out to Billet Labs to bring LMG's errors to consumers view.   You are asking Steve to do a better job.  How much more time would you like Steve to invest.  I mean time is money so did you want Steve to dedicate 1 week?  2 weeks?    The time he already put in to shine the light is more than I would have bothered with.

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

LTT gets a million views a video. GN gets 60k. There’s no way you are arguing in good faith that GN isn’t concerningly threatened by the Lab

Unless you can read Steve's mind, you can't say that to a certainty.

[Saeumii]

1 minute ago, Nucleosynthesis said:

Point is that the viewer doesn't have to arrive at the same conclusion as the video host.

 

They can look at the data and arrive at their own. So it's important that the testing is compitent and the data is correct.

sure. you don't have to agree with his thinking, but you should at least understand it

[Cosmic Emotion]

Ok so after putting some thought into it, Linus is a hazard to not only LMG but to Framework as well. I would honestly either fix my shiz before moving on or simply step down so the companies I am involved with do not get a massive hit (especially in the case of Framework since enthusiasts seriously won't like Linus moving on).

[soysauceonrice]

Just now, xgmadmatt said:

Steve and Gamers Nexus are impartial journalists and he made his intent very clear that he was simply reporting facts and personally wished no ill will toward LTT. He also recognized aloud that this is probably growing pains that MANY companies go through when experiencing rapid growth, without having to mention any of that.

The majority of Steve's criticisms were valid.  But he was not "just reporting facts."  Go watch the original video.  Steve specifically stated that GN was the one who planted the idea of a competitor buying the block.  This isn't factual reporting.  This is editorializing.  When I first watched the video, I just assumed that the whole "competitor buys our prototype" thing came from Billet.  I saw people parrot this same line on reddit.  But Billet didn't raise this concern -- it was planted by GN.  

 

Which is nuts, because he just casually threw in a random hunch about corporate espionage when he could have literally just asked LMG who bought the block, but no -- he decided not to ask for comment because, he didn't HAVE to ?  Such a weird dodge and I still do not understand why he did it.  

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

3 minutes ago, xgmadmatt said:

Steve and Gamers Nexus are impartial journalists and he made his intent very clear that he was simply reporting facts and personally wished no ill will toward LTT. He also recognized aloud that this is probably growing pains that MANY companies go through when experiencing rapid growth, without having to mention any of that.

 

What is shocking to me is Linus's bullyish and completely immature response to factual reporting, and a journalist going out of his way to let everyone know his true intent up front. This is unacceptable and he has just crossed the ethics line and took his whole company with him. Just because he is corrupt and approaches his sponsors for advice when reviewing their products doesn't mean that's how journalism works. Publicly expressing disappointment to how journalism works, simply because he lacks any measure of accountability, shows what a sick narcissist he actually is, and how untrustworthy any actual information that comes out of the mouths of any of his LTT staff, is. I hope all of his sponsors and those that consider his organization's "services" seriously consider all of this when it comes time to renew their contracts, agreements, "press" credentials, sponsorship deals, promo's, etc. Personally, I would not trust LTT with any of my products after hearing the horror story around the cooler prototype, not without some serious reassurances. 

 

As for me, I've unsubscribed and am moving on to more informative and reputable and actual tech channels. You know, one's that don't say "hey, this is just for entertainment" every time they muck up the facts in what is presented as an actual fair and unbiased product review or demonstration. But you can all watch what you want. I'm sure it will still run on my auto-play but at least I won't be contributing any more fandom or actual time to his content unless something changes. I also remove myself from this forum in due time or he or his cronies can go and ahead and ban me to show us how much they appreciate free speech, opinion, and those of us that still believe in calling out false integrity. Peace out #sinkplane #selfinflicted #don'twhine #getitogetherLTT #makeitorfailmoment

There’s no way you can watch those videos and walk away saying that GN are impartial journalists. They don’t follow journalism best practices and Steve clearly editorialized throughout the video. They are also direct competitiors so impartiality is impossible.

[Chairman Boofy]

2 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

LTT gets a million views a video. GN gets 60k. There’s no way you are arguing in good faith that GN isn’t concerningly threatened by the Lab

I'm arguing that a channel that clearly cares about competence and accuracy in their content likely isn't significantly concerned about a company that has displayed a inability thus far to produce anything competent with it. Nothing "bad faith" about that bud.

 

Unless you can read minds this is all speculation anyway.  

[soysauceonrice]

1 minute ago, mobriskie said:

I don't believe that GN has a conflict of interest with LMG.   LMG would have to come a loooooong way with accuracy and experience in running the equipment in their new lab before they even come close to GN's level of proper testing and attention to detail.   Steve took 40-ish minutes in his video as well as research time and time reaching out to Billet Labs to bring LMG's errors to consumers view.   You are asking Steve to do a better job.  How much more time would you like Steve to invest.  I mean time is money so did you want Steve to dedicate 1 week?  2 weeks?    The time he already put in to shine the light is more than I would have bothered with.

How much time should GN invest?  How long does it take to send an email/text ?  Are we holding them to a higher standard, or are we holding them to LMG's standards ?

[jooroth18]

7 minutes ago, xgmadmatt said:

Steve and Gamers Nexus are impartial journalists and he made his intent very clear that he was simply reporting facts and personally wished no ill will toward LTT. He also recognized aloud that this is probably growing pains that MANY companies go through when experiencing rapid growth, without having to mention any of that.

 

What is shocking to me is Linus's bullyish and completely immature response to factual reporting, and a journalist going out of his way to let everyone know his true intent up front. This is unacceptable and he has just crossed the ethics line and took his whole company with him. Just because he is corrupt and approaches his sponsors for advice when reviewing their products doesn't mean that's how journalism works. Publicly expressing disappointment to how journalism works, simply because he lacks any measure of accountability, shows what a sick narcissist he actually is, and how untrustworthy any actual information that comes out of the mouths of any of his LTT staff, is. I hope all of his sponsors and those that consider his organization's "services" seriously consider all of this when it comes time to renew their contracts, agreements, "press" credentials, sponsorship deals, promo's, etc. Personally, I would not trust LTT with any of my products after hearing the horror story around the cooler prototype, not without some serious reassurances. 

 

As for me, I've unsubscribed and am moving on to more informative and reputable and actual tech channels. You know, one's that don't say "hey, this is just for entertainment" every time they muck up the facts in what is presented as an actual fair and unbiased product review or demonstration. But you can all watch what you want. I'm sure it will still run on my auto-play but at least I won't be contributing any more fandom or actual time to his content unless something changes. I also remove myself from this forum in due time or he or his cronies can go and ahead and ban me to show us how much they appreciate free speech, opinion, and those of us that still believe in calling out false integrity. Peace out #sinkplane #selfinflicted #don'twhine #getitogetherLTT #makeitorfailmoment

Lets not bring floatplane into this lol, luke never asked for this!

[xg32]

2 minutes ago, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

LTT gets a million views a video. GN gets 60k. There’s no way you are arguing in good faith that GN isn’t concerningly threatened by the Lab

the benchmarks shown by the lab so far has been a complete joke, it'd take years/if ever to close that kinda gap.

[Saeumii]

4 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

It doesn't matter if the cooler was the greatest or the worst. Someone might have wanted exactly that product or one like it and it's wildly unprofessional to not review it properly. 

sure. you don't have to agree with his thinking, but you should at least understand it

[Im_a_Rhinoceros]

2 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Unless you can read Steve's mind, you can't say that to a certainty.

Are they or are they not direct competitors?

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, Im_a_Rhinoceros said:

journalism best practices

Oh we're still doing this one, huh? There is no requirement for journalists to contact the subject of a story.

[Blademaster91]

58 minutes ago, LynxCat said:

There is no way for GN to be unbiased. If Asus made a review thrashing Gigabyte graphics card, it couldn't be fully unbiased even when all the facts are correct. They are competitors. Steve also has a lot of snarky comments in the videos. He is threatened by the labs and is striking back.

 

That being said, LTT needs to have a better answer and fix their shit.

There is no completely unbiased reviewer, thats why people should get info from multiple sources, than make your own decision based on the data provided. Steve didn't make the video to attack them, I don't see any harmful intent in the video, and I don't see how GN would be threatened by the labs when the LTT labs has been a thing for a while now yet LMG videos still have some obviously bad errors.

 The GN video was a call out that needed to happen as LMG has been allowing some bad mistakes in their videos for a long time now, people point out their mistakes but it seems LMG cares more about rushing out a video every day more than taking the time to do any error correction.

29 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

to give them some publicity, possibly. the monoblock is clearly well made, even if they didn't test it properly, and linus praised their manufacturing and machining capabilities at the end

The publicity Billet labs got is probably not the kind of publicity they wanted, given that Linus trashed the company on the WAN show and said it was crap, it makes no sense to even accept the block for review if he didn't want to review it fairly because of the price of the product.

[Cosmic Emotion]

How could people seriously think that Steve feels, or even is, threatened by the LTT Labs? Steve wasn't even the first one to bring the inaccurasies to attention. He's just doing his job. Please think before you post something.

[Hobbit]

8 hours ago, Leksi T said:

It's tough.  Is kinda why I was more than just hinting that Linus should stop posting last night.  I have little doubt that yesterday he probably lacked info or even that he people around him had enough time to dig into this.  I understand that Linus has a huge amount of faith in his team, and I can understand him wanting to get in front of this and defend himself and his team.  However, I wonder if he was more than just a little panicky yesterday, and in this case, I could have understood him taking some time to prepare something.  I don't mean, like, PR style say alot of words but say nothing.  But, go back to his team, do some digging internally, and then have something solid to say.

 

On the other hand, I know it's GN's style to keep the pressure on, but this new vid... It's very difficult to see this as more than an attack now, despite good points Steve may have raised.  I can only imagine that this type of barrage is only going to make it alot harder for LMG to say anything publicly. At this point if I was leading LMG I'd be very tempted to hire PR writers and turtle up.  Which would destroy LMG, in a few ways.  And it's not good for the space to lose LMG. It doesn't feel like there's any warning shots from GN here. They're straight up hitting them where it hurts, and they're not letting up.

100% the current ceo is shitting himself and probably told linus to keep it quiet and decide what to talk about/not talk about. Despite what he said he'll end up talking at least a little bit about this "drama" on WAN. Idc what anyone says, shill or not this response was just terrible and let on more than it should've. If he didn't say anything about the auction GN probably wouldn't even have done an update on the situation. 

 

Even if i agree on a lot of stuff with GN, all of this shouldn't be pointed at Linus. He clearly has been told too much BS from his team or he wouldn't be so confident talking publicly about easy to prove lies. (benchmarks being re-done for older stuff, the sum agreed on for Billet labs compensation) 

 

I know haters will say i'm just shilling for linus on this but let's be honest, there is NO WAY you'd lie about something GN can prove wrong with 1 email. I have been here way too long to hate on Linus as a person, he has proven way too many time that he's a nice guy so i can't point any malice at him. Ingenuity? maybe