zen 4 AMD Ryzen 7000X3D series coming February/April, 16-core Ryzen 9 7950X3D features 144MB cache: 21-30% higher gaming performance at 1080p (Update #3)

[BiG StroOnZ]

Summary

Today AMD unveils its plans for Ryzen 7000 CPU series featuring brand new X3D series processors; highlighting the Ryzen 9 7950X3D, Ryzen 9 7900X3D and Ryzen 7 7800X3D.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quotes

Quote

The Zen4 product family led by Ryzen 9 7950X3D will feature up to 16 cores and 144MB of cache. This CPU will have 5.7 GHz boost, so just the same max clock as existing Ryzen 9 7950X CPU, however the TDP has been reduced by 50W to just 120W.

 

AMD is also confirming that Ryzen 9 7900X3D with 12 cores will also be available. This CPU will have 5.6 GHz boost and 140MB of total cache.

 

Last but not least, the Ryzen 7 7800X3D with 8 cores will feature 104MB of cache, 5.0 GHz boost clock and TDP at 120W, so in this case it will be higher than Ryzen 7 7700X (105W).

 

AMD is claiming 21% to 30% higher performance at 1080p with high quality preset in popular esports games:

 

My thoughts

It's great to finally get a confirmation of these parts, as these SKUs will be highly competitive with Raptor Lake. There are no prices yet being said, however they are saying that these processors will be available in February. With 21-30% higher performance than their non-3D brethren the 5800X3D, these chips will be gaming power houses. According to most recent rumors, there is supposed to be a Raptor Lake refresh coming out as well. Thus, I imagine Intel knows the X3D chips are going to be released and needs their own counter to them. However, these X3D chips will be released Q1 2023, while the Raptor Lake refresh isn't set to arrive until Q3 2023. Meaning AMD might be able to hold the gaming performance crown for quite some time. Most likely the only changes to the Raptor Lake refresh parts are going to be changes to clock speeds. Therefore, who knows if those refresh Raptor Lake parts will be enough to take back the gaming crown. 

 

Sources

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-series-coming-february-16-core-ryzen-9-7950x3d-features-144mb-cache 

 

Update

 

Summary

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D series launches February 14th 2023, Valentine’s Day.

 

 

Quotes

Quote

AMD has confirmed that their Ryzen 7000 X3D gaming processors will be launching on February 14th.

 

AMD's Ryzen 7000 X3D CPUs have a locked multiplier and therefore do not support overclocking. However, you can use the automatic Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) performance-boosing feature, or use the Curve Optimizer to increase performance.

 

AMD has not revealed the pricing of their Zen 4 X3D processors, at this time. Expect them to have premium pricing over AMD's standard Ryzen 7000 series processors.

 

My thoughts

Finally, we have a concrete launch date on these Ryzen 7000X3D CPUs. It comes out to be 34 days from today (1/11/2023), so easily another month. Hopefully, before then, we also get some pricing too; as it seems AMD has been pretty tight lipped about that since the CPUs were announced at CES. When and if pricing comes out, I will update this OP and thread to keep you all posted.

 

Sources

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-has-a-redesigned-box-designless-oc-supportand-lower-max-temp.html

https://overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_reveals_ryzen_7000_x3d_s_release_date_-_zen_4_with_a_gaming_boost/1

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-sets-launch-date-for-ryzen-7000-x3d-cpus

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-series-to-launch-on-valentines-day

 

Update #2

 

Summary

AMD now says Ryzen 7000X3D is not launching on February 14th. AMD has just confirmed that February 14th is not the correct launch date for Ryzen 7000X3D chips. Yesterday, the company listed such a date for all the three X3D SKUs that were announced at CES, but the company has now ‘unlaunched’ its chips from this day:

 

Quotes

Quote

“As you know, today AMD.com briefly published a launch date for the Ryzen 7000X3D Series Desktop processors; however, that date is incorrect. We have not confirmed a launch date at this time. We will provide updates on the expected availability of these processors at a future date”

 

— AMD Spokesman

 

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D series are therefore still coming officially in February, but even after this miscommunication, AMD has not provided the correct date. This means that the company is likely not ready to announce it at this point.

 

My thoughts

This is a bit messy to be honest. I'm glad that they are still coming sometime in February, but I'm not sure why a date was published in the first place. Seems to be some serious miscommunication going on. Either way, if we get a date I will update the thread, along with prices when we get them.

 

Sources

https://videocardz.com/newz/a-heartbreaking-mistake-amd-now-says-ryzen-7000x3d-is-not-launching-on-february-14th

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-processors-not-released-on-the-14th.html

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342239-amd-flip-flops-on-ryzen-7000-x3d-launch-date

https://www.eteknix.com/amd-delays-ryzen-7000x3d-feb-14th-release-date/

 

 

Update #3

 

Summary

AMD today announced the retail channel pricing and release dates of its upcoming Ryzen 7000X3D "Zen 4" line of high-performance Socket AM5 desktop processors.

 

 

 

 

 

Quotes

Quote

AMD announced retail availability from February 28, 2023 for the Ryzen 9 7950X3D and 7900X3D. The Ryzen 7 7800X3D launches on April 6, 2023. The Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-core/16-thread processor is priced at USD $449. The 12-core/24-thread Ryzen 9 7900X3D is priced at $599. The flagship 16-core/32-thread Ryzen 9 7950X3D is priced at $699.

 

My thoughts

Looks like we finally got a confirmed launch date and prices for these CPUs. At the end of this month, I'm looking forward to seeing benchmarks and how much the 3D V-Cache technology benefits these CPUs compared to the 5800X3D. The initial MSRP for the 7800X3D is the same as the 5800X3D. I personally thought the prices were going to be higher, but these aren't too bad compared to the launch prices of the "X" SKUs. 

 

Sources

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-announces-pricing-and-availability-for-ryzen-7000x3d-series-processors.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-announces-ryzen-7000x3d-pricing-dollar449-to-dollar699-starting-feb-28th

https://www.techpowerup.com/304315/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-series-prices-revealed-available-feb-28

https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/a-new-year-starts-with-new-am5-options/ba-p/582404

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-launches-february-28th-costs-699

[CommanderAlex]

3 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

The Zen4 product family led by Ryzen 9 7950X3D will feature up to 16 cores and 144MB of cache. This CPU will have 5.7 GHz boost, so just the same max clock as existing Ryzen 9 7950X CPU, however the TDP has been reduced by 50W to just 120W.

So, I'm not really sure where this would go since the 5800X3D and it's extra cache was favored in gaming applications but not so much in multi-threaded workloads due to it only being 8C/16T, where the 5900X and 5950X ruled above it. Is AMD really just going to cannibalize their 7950X and 7900X counterparts?

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, CommanderAlex said:

Is AMD really just going to cannibalize their 7950X and 7900X counterparts?

Yeah, this has me kinda scared for what the pricing for those SKUs is gonna look like. In order for the non-3D VCACHE chips to make sense, they have to be probably 20-30% less at the minimum than their X3D variants, so a 7900X3D could end up being priced at something like $600+, more than the cost of a 7950X, and a 7950X3D in the ~$800 range. 

 

TBH, they probably should've only released the X3D variants of their CPUs, along side. No matter how they price it they're making half of their Ryzen 9 SKUs completely irrelevant, either because it's way too expensive or too close in price to its better performing bigger brother. 

[TempestCatto]

The real question is, will we be able to buy them, or are they gonna be OEM only? Maybe I should start a business, claim to be an OEM, just so I can get me some. lol

[dizmo]

Sus.
I don't really buy it, but I guess we'll see what happens in other titles when it launches.

[CommanderAlex]

9 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Yeah, this has me kinda scared for what the pricing for those SKUs is gonna look like. In order for the non-3D VCACHE chips to make sense, they have to be probably 20-30% less at the minimum than their X3D variants, so a 7900X3D could end up being priced at something like $600+, more than the cost of a 7950X, and a 7950X3D in the ~$800 range. 

 

TBH, they probably should've only released the X3D variants of their CPUs, along side. No matter how they price it they're making half of their Ryzen 9 SKUs completely irrelevant, either because it's way too expensive or too close in price to its better performing bigger brother. 

AMD is going to have to push hard with rumors of Intel's refresh coming around the corner to compete with AMD's 3D cache here, albeit at the expense of power consumption unless they're going to release a smaller node soon lol. I feel bad for those that already coughed up the $$$ for a 7950X when AM5 launched.

 

I think that AMD is going to sell the 7950X3D for $799 and drop the 7950X possibly $10-15 or just keep it where it's at right now (currently at the time of writing at $574 on AMD.com). No way they're going to sell it for below $500 unless Intel's newest CPUs can beat it. 7900X3D probably a shitty price point like before last year with the 5900X around $650 and the 7800X3D for $500.

 

 

[starsmine]

26 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

So, I'm not really sure where this would go since the 5800X3D and it's extra cache was favored in gaming applications but not so much in multi-threaded workloads due to it only being 8C/16T, where the 5900X and 5950X ruled above it. Is AMD really just going to cannibalize their 7950X and 7900X counterparts?

Its very much dependent on the application.
The PRIMARY use case for 3DV-cache is Milan-X and Genoa-X, not the gaming consumer sku. 
These will work for those use cases just as well for non server builds.

No amd is not going to canablize 7900X/7950X.
These parts cost MORE, and like you said, many multi-threaded work loads dont benefit.

@BiG StroOnZ 21-30% better then the 5800x3d, not the 7800x.

I really dont know what a raptor lake refresh will accomplish other then adding another 100-200Mhz. 

[BiG StroOnZ]

39 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

So, I'm not really sure where this would go since the 5800X3D and it's extra cache was favored in gaming applications but not so much in multi-threaded workloads due to it only being 8C/16T, where the 5900X and 5950X ruled above it. Is AMD really just going to cannibalize their 7950X and 7900X counterparts?

 

Well the 7950X and 7900X recently got heavy discounts due to the holidays. I imagine that these new X3D parts will simply takeover the previous MSRPs (or even cost more) and the non-X3D parts will remain discounted. See the tricky thing about this launch is that with the 5800X3D as the only option for Zen 3 it actually made you have to make a choice between gaming and productivity. With the 7950X and 7900X now having X3D options, there will no longer be that question of, "What should I do for gaming and productivity?". Which constantly pops up (should I get a 5800X3D or 5900X for instance).

 

16 minutes ago, starsmine said:

@BiG StroOnZ 21-30% better then the 5800x3d, not the 7800x.

I really dont know what a raptor lake refresh will accomplish other then adding another 100-200Mhz. 

 

Yeah, just noticed the fine print on the bottom of the chart, good catch. Fixed the OP. However, in many titles the 5800X3D performs better than Zen 4 parts in gaming. Therefore, comparing the 7000X3D chips to the 5800X3D is actually doing the 7000X3D chips favors.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what they plan on doing with the Raptor Lake refresh. I know the 13900KS is launching soon with a 6GHz clock, but it's said to only be like 10% faster than the 13900K and 15% faster than a 7950X (obviously non-3D). Even if the rest of the Raptor Lake lineup gets similar treatment, the only competing element they will probably be able to offer is price (compared to 7000X3D parts).

[CommanderAlex]

5 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Its very much dependent on the application.
The PRIMARY use case for 3DV-cache is Milan-X and Genoa-X, not the gaming consumer sku. 
These will work for those use cases just as well for non server builds.

No amd is not going to canablize 7900X/7950X.
These parts cost MORE, and like you said, many multi-threaded work loads dont benefit.

@BiG StroOnZ 21-30% better then the 5800x3d, not the 7800x.

I really dont know what a raptor lake refresh will accomplish other then adding another 100-200Mhz. 

Well if the cache was really important for server applications and the need for tons of cores and threads, placing them on a consumer platform for their high-end market from 8 cores to 16 cores should make a noticeable improvement in performance. The 5800X3D's cache didn't help for CPU intensive loads but I suspect due to the core count of 8C/16T. That was the reason for the 5800X3D being better than the 5900X/5950X in gaming but that's because most games don't take advantage over 4 cores. This is where 3D cache shines in gaming. I'm just speculating here so we'll see when they do launch how well they perform from third party reviewers. 

 

Dr. Lisa Su is having a CES keynote speech in ~40 minutes.

https://www.amd.com/en/events/ces-2023

 

1 minute ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

Well the 7950X and 7900X recently got heavy discounts due to the holidays. I imagine that these new X3D parts will simply takeover the previous MSRPs (or even cost more) and the non-X3D parts will remain discounted. See the tricky thing about this launch is that with the 5800X3D as the only option for Zen 3 it actually made you have to make a choice between gaming and productivity. With the 7950X and 7900X now having X3D options, there will no longer be that question of, "What should I do for gaming and productivity?". Which constantly pops up (should I get a 5800X3D or 5900X for instance).

Yeah I haven't been watching the prices lately as I'm happy with what I got, but definitely for sure AMD has been wanting to offload the 7950X and 7900X before launching their X3D counterparts. That nearly always came up here for New Builds on whether to go with a 5800X3D or 5900X/5950X for gaming and other tasks.

[BiG StroOnZ]

Got some more 7000X3D performance numbers from the Live Broadcast:

 

 

 

10-25% faster than 5800X3D in AAA Gaming Titles and 9-24% faster than 13900K in a variety of titles. Maybe Raptor Lake refresh will be enough. 

[starsmine]

5 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

10-25% faster than 5800X3D in AAA Gaming Titles and 9-24% faster than 13900K in a variety of titles. Maybe Raptor Lake refresh will be enough. 

idk. to gain 10% performance from overclocking would require a >10% overclock generally (amdahl's law)

 

going from a a 5.8ghz boost to a 6.4ghz boost is a lot for a stock product.

[Delicieuxz]

The presentation was quite short on details for X3D processors. I was hoping for a clearer win here, for my next system. I'm going to be waiting to hear about pricing, productivity performance compared to Intel, and more gaming benchmarks: 7800 X3D getting a 15% average performance increase over 5800 X3D in some popular games is a bit vague, and I think rumours had suggested there could be more performance gains.

 

The 120 watt TDP and 104 MB cache are solid, though.

 

But I keep reminding myself that I don't need to go all-out on Zen 4 because AM5 is an upgradable platform, and basically any mid-tier Zen 4 CPU do great until Zen 5 is available.

[BiG StroOnZ]

12 minutes ago, starsmine said:

idk. to gain 10% performance from overclocking would require a >10% overclock generally (amdahl's law)

 

going from a a 5.8ghz boost to a 6.4ghz boost is a lot for a stock product.

 

Very true, but based on multi-threaded scores from Geekbench 5.4 the 13900KS is 12.5% faster than a 13900K's average score:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i9-13900KS-multi-core-performance-appears-10-5-and-13-faster-vs-Core-i9-13900K-and-Ryzen-9-7950X-in-valid-Geekbench-listing.674782.0.html

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13900K-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.666495.0.html

 

https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19175873

 

26,619 (13900KS) vs 23,671 (13900K Average Score)

 

Now, this is obviously a multi-threaded benchmark and games tend to be single-threaded. However, many newer titles provide better multi-threaded support. So perhaps a 10% increase in clock speeds isn't exactly required for Intel to at least tie with the 7000X3D parts or trade blows depending on the game. 

[Shimejii]

5800x3d To 7800x3D is more of a step thena leap sadly. 7900x3D looks to be the probably most sold for this segment, as the 7950x3D will probably be 800$+

 

Kind of a flop for the 7800x3d, but the other two look pretty interesting at least.

[starsmine]

See Footnote GD 150 for Pricing....

Footnote GD 150

[porina]

Damn it AMD, you almost had the perfect gaming CPU and gimped it. 7800X I'm looking at you. Why is that "only" 5.0 GHz turbo, compared to 5.6+ of the 2 CCD models. Argh!

 

My thinking, is that a unified cache is best for gaming and many other uses. It just plain avoids the pain having multiple CCDs bring with it, so I'd avoid AMD CPUs above 8 cores, whereas there is no such limit with Intel. 7800X is all that's needed core wise, but losing around 10% on peak clock puts it down a tier. Now for the ultimate gaming CPU I think it has to go to what will be massively expensive 7950X3D and hope OS/software is better at core allocation these days, or end up with messy manual solutions to do it yourself.

 

I'm also somewhat concerned about the lower TDP compared to non-3D versions. Cache will already take away some of the power budget from cores.

 

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong on a lot of the above. Testing will tell, so now we wait.

 

 

Edit: it gets worse. The 2 CCD models only get 64MB extra cache. So now we have the question is that split 32MB/CCD or one gets 64MB the other none? Each will have different trade offs. 

 

Edit 2: Seen render suggesting it is 64+0 arrangement. Very interesting.

[starsmine]

21 minutes ago, porina said:

Damn it AMD, you almost had the perfect gaming CPU and gimped it. 7800X I'm looking at you. Why is that "only" 5.0 GHz turbo, compared to 5.6+ of the 2 CCD models. Argh!

 

My thinking, is that a unified cache is best for gaming and many other uses. It just plain avoids the pain having multiple CCDs bring with it, so I'd avoid AMD CPUs above 8 cores, whereas there is no such limit with Intel. 7800X is all that's needed core wise, but losing around 10% on peak clock puts it down a tier. Now for the ultimate gaming CPU I think it has to go to what will be massively expensive 7950X3D and hope OS/software is better at core allocation these days, or end up with messy manual solutions to do it yourself.

 

I'm also somewhat concerned about the lower TDP compared to non-3D versions. Cache will already take away some of the power budget from cores.

 

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong on a lot of the above. Testing will tell, so now we wait.

 

 

Edit: it gets worse. The 2 CCD models only get 64MB extra cache. So now we have the question is that split 32MB/CCD or one gets 64MB the other none? Each will have different trade offs. 

 

Edit 2: Seen render suggesting it is 64+0 arrangement. Very interesting.

64+0 actually would explain your turbos complaint. 

The 5.6/5.7 are only doable on the CCD without the stacked memory. 

[leadeater]

8 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

This CPU will have 5.7 GHz boost, so just the same max clock as existing Ryzen 9 7950X CPU, however the TDP has been reduced by 50W to just 120W.

Wait what? Weird.

 

8 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

Last but not least, the Ryzen 7 7800X3D with 8 cores will feature 104MB of cache, 5.0 GHz boost clock and TDP at 120W, so in this case it will be higher than Ryzen 7 7700X (105W).

Starting to sound like 120W limit is necessary due to the thermal transfer through the V-Cache die.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, CommanderAlex said:

Well if the cache was really important for server applications and the need for tons of cores and threads, placing them on a consumer platform for their high-end market from 8 cores to 16 cores should make a noticeable improvement in performance. The 5800X3D's cache didn't help for CPU intensive loads but I suspect due to the core count of 8C/16T. That was the reason for the 5800X3D being better than the 5900X/5950X in gaming but that's because most games don't take advantage over 4 cores. This is where 3D cache shines in gaming. I'm just speculating here so we'll see when they do launch how well they perform from third party reviewers. 

Typical gamer focused reviewers just don't test using applications that benefit from the cache much. It's more an artifact of how the product is reviewed than whether or not the cache helps in server workloads, CPU intensive, multi-threaded or otherwise.

 

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-5800x3d-linux6/2

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-5800x3d-linux/3

 

Massive gains from the cache can be had.

[porina]

32 minutes ago, starsmine said:

64+0 actually would explain your turbos complaint. 

The 5.6/5.7 are only doable on the CCD without the stacked memory. 

That just makes it worse to me. Choice of cache or clock on one CPU.

 

Gonna let the dust settle, but given all this it does push the 7800X3D back to the top of the gaming potential pile.

[Vishera]

I will just sit back and enjoy my 5700X.

I don't see a reason to be hyped about this or anything else in the PC space at this time.

[starsmine]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

I will just sit back and enjoy my 5700X.

I don't see a reason to be hyped about this or anything else in the PC space at this time.

I mean.. as you should. You area just one generation old. Anyone upgrading every gen is in the wrong. 
You are MORE then fine until AM6

[starsmine]

19 minutes ago, porina said:

That just makes it worse to me. Choice of cache or clock on one CPU.

 

Gonna let the dust settle, but given all this it does push the 7800X3D back to the top of the gaming potential pile.

its exactly what we guessed.

So now I wonder if the 12 core is a 8w/vcache+4burst

 

[porina]

13 minutes ago, starsmine said:

So now I wonder if the 12 core is a 8w/vcache+4burst

Was it possible to set earlier 2 CCD Ryzens to X+Y cores where X!=Y and neither were 0? My gut feel remains 6+6 but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again  

 

In that vid AMD clearly paints the X3D CPUs as optimised for gaming. Which to me is a disappointment because it'll make optimising some compute tasks more complicated. Fair enough, not their target market. 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, porina said:

Was it possible to set earlier 2 CCD Ryzens to X+Y cores where X!=Y and neither were 0? My gut feel remains 6+6 but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again  

 

In that vid AMD clearly paints the X3D CPUs as optimised for gaming. Which to me is a disappointment because it'll make optimising some compute tasks more complicated. Fair enough, not their target market. 

Not a "good choice" wallet wise but you could always buy a 2 CCD product and disable one CCD so you have 8 cores, full memory bandwidth and the V-Cache.

 

Also it's not like it's "optimized" for anything, cache is cache. I don't think any of the front end is changed in how it works when the V-Cache is present, it's just a matter of more cache entries being supported leading to higher hit rates.

 

It's just a marketing issue, the most easy solution is gaming since it's a huge industry with a concentrated collective of high end purchasers who are vocal an actually look at the marketing. Picking your message and choosing who to deliver it to is basically one of the most important marketing principles. It doesn't really matter much if V-Cache makes minesweeper 30% faster if 0.001% of the market would care.