Ethereum finally goes POS, marking the end of gpu mining era

[starsmine]

4 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I like how the creator is jerking off like he actually is saving the planet with lower electricity consumption globally by .2%.

 

....except literally everyone just switched to other algorithms.  

 

 

For the record I'm still profitable because I have very cheap electricity.  But now I have to decide if I want to unwind my MiningRig and return most of the cards for full refunds.

Thats my thoughts exactly, all the miners will just pivot to a different coin and trade those to and from ethereum/bitcoin. 
Im very skeptical this will do a whole lot in terms of global power consumption until the concept dies off of being profitable.

[starsmine]

32 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Not sure where to ask.

Is there any none cryptocurrency options to run my PC at night as a heater (free power in my apartment)?
 

Just do something useful with it, like folding @ home or boinc

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Just do something useful with it, like folding @ home or boinc

100% THIS!

This is a big reason I despise crypto as its not only not doing anything useful for society, its actually wasting our limited fossil fuels and destroying the planet for personal gain.  When we could be curing diseases and viruses with that wasted energy.

[CarlBar]

7 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Texas and California have unstable grids, and of course energy is going up because of the cost of natgas.

 

Do you remember learning about the "food chain" with regards to natural science in school? Well, the base of modern civilization is fed by cheap energy. It's a form of labor as it does work. And labor = cost; which sets the valuation for fiat currency. When energy gets scarce, %everything% gets more expensive.

 

 

This, so nice to see someone understand it. For millennia the basic unit for doing work was a human being and their muscles, somtimes augmented by animals and later on limited windmill and waterwheel power, but the vast majority of work was done by the humble human being. The industrial revolution with its mass adoption of steam power and eventually electricity moved that from humans as the main source of work input to the generation of electricity and it's use.

 

But regardless of source it's the cost of getting things from the ground to your hands in work effort that underpins the value of almost everything you buy and interact with.

[leadeater]

54 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Not sure where to ask.

Is there any none cryptocurrency options to run my PC at night as a heater (free power in my apartment)?
 

Folding at Home, BOINC

[Eigenvektor]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

hope not, how would i pay my bills and feed my new tech necessities without touching my paycheck afterwards?

The same way everbody else does, by paying for it with money you've earned doing actual work, instead of wasting a ton of precious resources to generate random bits.

 

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Frankly your live must be a real pain if you get joy by depriving others of their hobbies instead of focusing on yourself. I pray that you may someday find something worthwhile for you and nobody takes it away from you.

Oh please, don't kid yourself. No one is mining because running a GPU 24/7 is a load of fun. They're doing it in the hopes of making a profit. You just said it yourself, you're doing it to pay bills. That's not a hobby, that's a business.

 

An extremely wasteful one to boot. Unlike any other business, the "work" you're doing isn't benefitting anyone but yourself. You're not producing anything of value to society as a whole.

 

And also unlike any other business mining has no incentive to become more efficient over time. The faster the network gets, the more energy is needed to produce the same result. The whole thing is designed to be as wasteful as possible.

[williamcll]

NFT merchants are going to have a great time now skydiving without parachutes.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

11 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah it does. The original reason Satoshi had so many was incase of an attack early on when there weren't many nodes. Now that there is almost 14,000 its economically impossible for a sole individual to operate 51% of the blockchain nodes.

It would surprise you, but "Man in the Middle" attacks are extremely rare in finance, it's the shipping industry need to deal with them to an extent. Blockchain technology ONLY mitigates 51% attacks, at the expense of making all other attack vectors trivial.

 

Banks mitigate 51% attacks by having a secure ledger, and mitigate all other forms of attack by being able to trace money with AML and KYC regulation and reverse transactions. Mechanisms sorely missing from blockchain. It still gets me how unsafe the technology is as a whole. You can't even fix sending the wrong amount of money!!!

I never doubted having all mi savings into a bank. Having all your savings into crypto? That's called a "bug reward bounty".

 

Blockchain can never achieve mass adoption as long as users are exposed to such extreme risks. And that's just one of many, many design flaws of Blockchain.

  

10 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Hope not, how would i pay my bills and feed my new tech necessities without touching my paycheck afterwards?

Blockchain is a negative sums game. That convinience for you comes at the cost of someone losing their investment.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

The same way everbody else does, by paying for it with money you've earned doing actual work, instead of wasting a ton of precious resources to generate random bits.

Yay! don't ever try to make your life easier I guess the take here is. You can have some extra income but your better off living every month pay check by pay check like the rest of us.

1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

Oh please, don't kid yourself. No one is mining because running a GPU 24/7 is a load of fun. They're doing it in the hopes of making a profit. You just said it yourself, you're doing it to pay bills. That's not a hobby, that's a business.

But it is, buying new and used gpus, finding the right balance between power draw, hash rate and noise, without having the system crash to halt, once you're done there moving onto the exchange and trying to get the most out of your mined coin, studying financial strategies, betting, stacking, etc...

1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

An extremely wasteful one to boot. Unlike any other business, the "work" you're doing isn't benefitting anyone but yourself. You're not producing anything of value to society as a whole.

It's benefitting me, and it is helping me to pay my bills as stated above, gives me fun bucks (managed to buy a digital piano this year with just those) and is in the process of allowing me to have a solar panel system on the roof of my house. I don't care about what I can do for society, all I care is what I can do to improve my life, and the people I care about.

1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

And also unlike any other business mining has no incentive to become more efficient over time. The faster the network gets, the more energy is needed to produce the same result. The whole thing is designed to be as wasteful as possible.

The Fs i give about that.

[jagdtigger]

10 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Frankly your live must be a real pain if you get joy by depriving others of their hobbies instead of focusing on yourself.

Yeah, says someone who endorses something that supports criminals and scammers to avoid consequences.....

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, says someone who endorses something that supports criminals and scammers to avoid consequences.....

You mean everyone who still pays using cash?

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

You mean everyone who still pays using cash?

Stop playing dumb, you know very well what im talking about.

[Lightwreather]

14 hours ago, NastyFlytrap said:

Great, but another will just take its place.....

We're rid of ethereum, soon we'll be dealing with the next.

Ravencoin seems to be what people have switched to, but it appears that it has only 1/2 the profitability ETH had.

Which is good.

[suicidalfranco]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Stop playing dumb, you know very well what im talking about.

Quote

9) 400 times more money is laundered in fiat currencies than in cryptocurrency.
Contrary to popular belief and what the media feeds the public, Bitcoin is not the usual arena for money laundering activities. Bitcoin accounts for only $2.5 billion of money laundered since its inception in 2009. This amount is significantly smaller than the annual $1 trillion money laundering statistics estimate we lose in fiat currencies.

https://legaljobs.io/blog/money-laundering-statistics/

 

I know that you're just a fear mongerer at this point.

[Sauron]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

This literally isn't any different of an issue to anything else. Those with money have a lot of it, a millionaire is still a millionaire, or billionaire, so you're just going to end up arguing over where they should or should not keep their assets/wealth and that is always going to have a large impact on those.

Yes, that is in fact a general problem with our economy. However crypto makes it worse by removing the stabilizing and regulatory action of a government which is ostensibly democratic; at least in the case of a country the wealthy have to work indirectly through lobbying or corruption whereas in the blockchain they directly have power over everyone else, as in an oligarchy. Plus it flies in the face of the claim that any of this is more democratic or more decentralized than regular currency.

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

tl;dr deal with it, this is not an issue that will go away ever no matter the "currency". You cannot blockchain out of wealth inequality, it can't solve that, not ever.

I agree, I'm arguing against the concept.

[Sauron]

18 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

The network is still mostly irreversible, meaning neither errors nor frauds can be reversed

Oh but they can, large exchanges can at any point fork the chain from a place they like and force everyone to follow them (as has happened already)... they just won't do it for the average layman losing some money.

[ComradeIT]

5 hours ago, starsmine said:

Thats my thoughts exactly, all the miners will just pivot to a different coin and trade those to and from ethereum/bitcoin. 
Im very skeptical this will do a whole lot in terms of global power consumption until the concept dies off of being profitable.

Other coins are either Bitcoin, which uses different hardware, or are a tiny fraction of the value of Ethereum and they won't be able to squeeze much from that stone. Mining is only profitable if you get paid for it, and there's not going to be very much miners can squeeze from those stones. You can check https://whattomine.com/gpus and even the most efficient GPUs won't be able to make a profit for almost five years at current price and difficulty. The drop in GPU prices shows that a lot of miners are unplugging too. 

 

Trent Vanepps predicted a slow, late sell-off https://nitter.com/trent_vanepps/status/1511348011405828097#m so we might see this trend get even more exaggerated.

 

Also the EU is in the middle of an energy crisis and there have been talks suggesting to ban proof-of-work mining if the Ethereum merge proves proof-of-work isn't necessary. Bitcoin is the monster we need to slay if we want to really put a stop to mining, and this is how that will go. We prove mining isn't necessary, then we offer a better alternative, then we bury Bitcoin underneath their crippling supply cap. 

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

Blockchain is a negative sums game. That convinience for you comes at the cost of someone losing their investment.

And? If I works for me I should stop cause someone else is losing?

If the company I work for, call it A, has a great year and the competing one, B, has a bad one because A gained marketshare,  should I resign from A cause someone else in B will end up in trouble because of my good performance?

 

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

And? If I works for me I should stop cause someone else is losing?

If the company I work for, call it A, has a great year and the competing one, B, has a bad one because A gained marketshare,  should I resign from A cause someone else in B will end up in trouble because of my good performance?

 

I'm not some kind of saint that is arguing for people to work for the betterment of humanity at their dertiment.

I'm just pointing out that blockchain is a negative sums game. In order for you to win, someone had to lose in absolute terms. Win-Lose.

Working is usually a positive sums game. You provide value, and get vaue in return. Win-Win. Your win doesn't come at somebody's loss.

Market share is a relative metric. Competitors can lose market share, and still have an increase in absolute revenue and profits. That's healthy market dynamics that reward market efficiency.

[suicidalfranco]

41 minutes ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

Market share is a relative metric. Competitors can lose market share, and still have an increase in absolute revenue and profits. That's healthy market dynamics that reward market efficiency.

Explains why no company ever fails... Oh wait

42 minutes ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

Working is usually a positive sums game. You provide value, and get vaue in return. Win-Win. Your win doesn't come at somebody's loss.

It comes at a cost to those you are competing against

43 minutes ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

'm just pointing out that blockchain is a negative sums game. In order for you to win, someone had to lose in absolute terms. Win-Lose.

Like in any industry, market,  game

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

I know that you're just a fear mongerer at this point.

Since crypto became a thing ransomware (malware and groups) and the darkweb use it exclusivley because its near impossible to track down compared to traditional currency. Calling facts fearmongering is just BS, pull your head out of the sand.....

[suicidalfranco]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Since crypto became a thing ransomware (malware and groups) and the darkweb use it exclusivley because its near impossible to track down compared to traditional currency. Calling facts fearmongering is just BS, pull your head out of the sand.....

And criminal activities, as demonstrated on that start I posted, are still mostly done through cash, 400 times more than crypto. It's a 2 billion dollar in crypto vs 1 trillion in fiat.

The only one who needs to pull out it's head out of the sand it's you.

Anyway, all my gains through crypto I report them to the government even if I don't like it. Soo I'm on the clear the same way I'm on the clear when I use cash to buy a pack of cigs.

[Avocado Diaboli]

11 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

It comes at a cost to those you are competing against

Interesting how hard you have to push the narrative that, just because all crypto currencies are closed systems with 0 net value being created, ALL of the economy has to be. Which is patently false. That's the problem people are trying to point out with your "hobby", it's that most other types of economic activity that aren't just finance bros trading shit inherently add value. Crypto is just the turbocharged version of capitalism that's so focused on maximizing profits that it doesn't even care where it comes from. And since crypto is by definition a closed system, it must therefore come at the cost of someone else and not borne out of value that gets created. 

 

I suggest you study a bit harder for your "hobby", because you don't seem to have a firm understanding of money, value, the difference between the two and the economy in general.

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

And criminal activities, as demonstrated on that start I posted, are still mostly done through cash, 400 times more than crypto. It's a 2 billion dollar in crypto vs 1 trillion in fiat.

Which can be uncovered because the whole system is logged and every account has a name attached to it. Even hard cash can be tracked via serial numbers. Whats more you can nullify any transaction, or even freeze the receiving account. Not to mention the whole system is insured. Crypto has none of these features which makes it perfect for criminals.
As i said before, pull your head out of the sand. And stop making BS excuses why you dont want to face the truth.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Crypto has none of these features which makes it perfect for criminals.

On the other hand once you have someone's wallet number their entire transaction history is visible to anyone, making it ripe for privacy violation and abuse.