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Ethereum finally goes POS, marking the end of gpu mining era

Origami Cactus
31 minutes ago, Sauron said:

At least on cruise ships you go somewhere, you eat, you sleep. It's wasteful but I can see some purpose. Crypto exclusively exists to scam people and make money in exchange for nothing.

And with ships in total accounting for less than 3% of global emissions I doubt that cruise ships touch the 0.2% caused by ETH alone.

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18 hours ago, Sauron said:

It doesn't have to be a single individual, anyone holding more than 0.1% of the chain has drastically different interests from the average holder who only has a fraction of a bitcoin and much greater power over the fate of the chain as a whole. Those at the top have the power to enforce changes and forks at will because if they drop out everyone loses all their money in an instant. If they find it advantageous to keep pow they'll keep pow and nobody will follow you on your pos fork with a hundred thousandth of the capital backing it compared to mainline btc; viceversa if they want to switch to pos you can't stop them because the original chain will be worth nothing when they move.

Except holding more gives you more voting power... which makes it an oligarchy.

I don't think you quite understand crypto as voting for bitcoin isn't literal like other chains with HIPs. The vote is essentially the acceptance by operators of a change to the blockchain and if the majority accept the change then this is the new way. So if someone wanted total control they would need to convince almost 7,000 node operators who tend to be tech wizards to do something that goes against logic. Not very likely to happen at all given the complexity of hosting a node and the value. 

 

You are viewing Bitcoin like a stock which it is not it is a currency. So it's the same as owning a shitload of USD and having power over society. So if anything this just validates crypto even more. The PoS and PoW debate already happened as there are Eth forks that still use GPU mining but make significantly less so we will see if the market kills them off or builds them up

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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All I'm seeing is a lot of them just moving to different coins or to a fork of ETH like ETC. If there's a lot of miners going to another specific coin, we will see soon enough plenty of "influencers" suddenly shill out these "new" shit coins to get the pump going before the inevitable dump.

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9 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

It would surprise you, but "Man in the Middle" attacks are extremely rare in finance, it's the shipping industry need to deal with them to an extent. Blockchain technology ONLY mitigates 51% attacks, at the expense of making all other attack vectors trivial.

 

Banks mitigate 51% attacks by having a secure ledger, and mitigate all other forms of attack by being able to trace money with AML and KYC regulation and reverse transactions. Mechanisms sorely missing from blockchain. It still gets me how unsafe the technology is as a whole. You can't even fix sending the wrong amount of money!!!

I never doubted having all mi savings into a bank. Having all your savings into crypto? That's called a "bug reward bounty".

 

Blockchain can never achieve mass adoption as long as users are exposed to such extreme risks. And that's just one of many, many design flaws of Blockchain.

I would really like your source on the 51% of attacks part. Bank ledgers are essentially the same thing as a blockchain except the entries aren't cryptographically linked so no you are wrong on this part. Bank ledgers are less secure and take more time to trace backwards. Tracing bitcoin is incredibly easy and why people have made mixing pots and tumblers for it and why you should never link your wallet to identifying info. 

 

Bitcoin is already deeply ingrained into the central banks so I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I personally have a 401k comprised of bitcoin ETFs on Fidelity. Many others like Wells Fargo also use bitcoin as investment vehicle and options now. 22% of Americans own bitcoin so I highly encourage you to read the whitepaper on bitcoin and understand the current banking system more

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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19 hours ago, Sauron said:

Except holding more gives you more voting power... which makes it an oligarchy.

image.thumb.png.79d42f73a395804598ffe0081d5bd037.png

 

This is what you are referencing and you are correct on the concerns for an oligarchy. Many altcoins do not employ decentralized mechanisms at all and say they do. This is an example from Helium on votes. As you can read it says the votes are weighted by Vote Power or how much money you have invested. I do no agree with crypto like this 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I would really like your source on the 51% of attacks part. Bank ledgers are essentially the same thing as a blockchain except the entries aren't cryptographically linked so no you are wrong on this part.

Internal bank ledgers are walled behind layers upon layer of credentials and encryption in local servers, disconnected from the internet. Syncing happens exactly once per day in controlled conditions. Shipping industry deals with man in the middle attack when someone swaps the label of two boxes, or when a package "falls of a truck".

 

When I say finance doesn't often deal with them, I mean to say such an attack may never have happened at all. After all, why do a "mission impossible" style hack with Tom Cruise entering a secure room to gain physical access to the system, when you can pay a clerk to use his credentials to tamper with the banks records and hope nobody notices?

Which incidentally is exactly how blockchain ledgers are hacked. By stealing credentials. Only blockchain operates under the assumption that access=permission by design, so all theft is legitimate and you cannot undo transactions.

9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Bitcoin is already deeply ingrained into the central banks so I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I personally have a 401k comprised of bitcoin ETFs on Fidelity.

I would say that is a disaster waiting to happen, but it already happened: Cassie de Depot already took eight figure losses with blockchain. Pension founds are the one thing that will sprun regulators to get their act together. That to me signal the end is near for blockchain. I speculate that regulators are coming in HARD.

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Just now, BuckGup said:

So if someone wanted total control they would need to convince almost 7,000 node operators who tend to be tech wizards to do something that goes against logic.

It's not against logic to act in your own interest... I'm betting node operators own quite a bit of the chain.

12 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

You are viewing Bitcoin like a stock which it is not it is a currency.

It acts nothing like a currency. It can't be efficiently used to pay for anything and its value fluctuates like a volatile stock. Also I have no doubt the power consumption of bitcoin is as bad or worse than eth was before transition.

13 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So it's the same as owning a shitload of USD and having power over society.

No, because USD is tied to a country's economical success and the US government has control over it, owning more than any individual and having the ability to print it at will.

7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Bank ledgers are essentially the same thing as a blockchain except the entries aren't cryptographically linked so no you are wrong on this part.

Banks can block or revert transactions if they happen illegally. The whole idea of the blockchain is that if a transaction follows the rules of the chain then it is valid and it cannot be undone, nor should it be. So if I trick you into giving me bitcoin you're screwed with no recourse - if the transaction is valid then I am now the owner as far as the blockchain is concerned.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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1 hour ago, Sauron said:

It's not against logic to act in your own interest... I'm betting node operators own quite a bit of the chain.

Correct it's self interested to not destroy the thing you believe and have money held in. 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

It acts nothing like a currency. It can't be efficiently used to pay for anything and its value fluctuates like a volatile stock. Also I have no doubt the power consumption of bitcoin is as bad or worse than eth was before transition.

That's simply not true anymore. You can fund a VISA card with bitcoin and use it like a normal credit card in stores with no issues. The blockchain energy consumption is actually significantly less comparatively as it would be the defacto instead of every bank using energy for their own. Also the top 7 HPCs which are used by the DoD, US gov, and oil companies use 3x the power of the blockchain and are mainly for personal gain. 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

So if I trick you into giving me bitcoin you're screwed with no recourse - if the transaction is valid then I am now the owner as far as the blockchain is concerned.

I'm not sure how bitcoin is suppose to prevent human problems as that logic could apply to seriously anything in the world. 

 

It really boils down to trusting the community you reside in or a central bank. Personally I don't think a central bank is compassionately watching out for all of their clients as evident by decades of abuse but hey you can ride the corporate train if you like it. 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Correct it's self interested to not destroy the thing you believe and have money held in. 

That's simply not true anymore. You can fund a VISA card with bitcoin and use it like a normal credit card in stores with no issues. The blockchain energy consumption is actually significantly less comparatively as it would be the defacto instead of every bank using energy for their own. Also the top 7 HPCs which are used by the DoD, US gov, and oil companies use 3x the power of the blockchain and are mainly for personal gain. 

I'm not sure how bitcoin is suppose to prevent human problems as that logic could apply to seriously anything in the world. 

 

It really boils down to trusting the community you reside in or a central bank. Personally I don't think a central bank is compassionately watching out for all of their clients as evident by decades of abuse but hey you can ride the corporate train if you like it. 

Oil companies and DOD using more power then the block chain is a terrible argument.
How many people are using the oil products? how many people are directly/indirectly a part of DOD between the contracts and other supporting businesses?

Now... how many people use the blockchain? Is it 3x? less? no, its MAGNITUDES less.

Energy per capita/energy per transaction is the metric you want to use, not energy total.

Break it into 100 to simplify it if you want, if 99 people use 6-14 energy units, and 1 person uses 1 energy unit. Something is borked in that system.

For the visa card with bitcoin, do you really think they are using just a bitcoin ACH on the back end? god no. you could never buy anything with that. they have to abstract it back to a currency that is usable. as in, not bitcoin.
And realize, its a debt card, a debt card you cant even use as a debt card. what sort of debt card goes, NOPE cant with draw money bitch.
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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

That's simply not true anymore. You can fund a VISA card with bitcoin and use it like a normal credit card in stores with no issues.

Well, cool - but you still pay in FIAT money in the store. Which will then get converted by VISA to BTC, at a highly volatile exchange rate (and probably some hefty fee). No, this is not acting like a currency, at all.

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I'm going to miss my 350W of free heat this winter 🥶 it really did help with my heating gas bill.

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5 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Comparativrly speaking it is, good luck identifying someone based solely on their crypto wallet address... Especially if they have an army of burner accounts to shuffle it around. Hell since there is no fee for creating a wallet they can create one for every single withdrawal....

This just describes money laundering in general and is nothing specific to crypto. Replace burner wallets with fake businesses and purchases or the likes and you have regular money laundering.

 

How would you identify someone solely by a bill's serial number? If you spend a bill the only thing they find out is that that bill has been spent (analogous to only knowing a wallet made a transaction). They won't even care unless its serial number (wallet address) is on a watchlist or becomes of interest later. They have no idea who spent it until you are tracked down through some means (analogous to not knowing how owns a wallet until that person is found), because they can't track a physical in-person handover of the bill. They would thus have an incomplete idea of how you obtained it at best from tracing the serial number as far as they can (analogous to tracing previous transactions of a wallet as far as one can), unless you deliberately or accidentally give/leave them more information about how you obtained it. Tying a bill's serial number to a person provides similar problems to tying a wallet address to a person.

 

The bigger crypto exchanges (Coinbase, Binance, KuCoin ata the least that I know of) are bound by KYC and AML policies by now as well. Getting stuff onto exchanges is the easy part. It's getting fiat out that becomes hard, let alone doing so anonymously. They may let you register without KYC at first, but trading can then require a basic verification and withdrawing fiat will require ID verification. Tying into that, every wallet you use to withdraw from such an exchange will thus automatically be immediately traceable to you. Yes that assumes using the more legitimate pathways and criminals will have their ways, but actually getting fiat money out of the crypto ecosystem anonymously nowadays is a bit harder then I think people assume. It still requires care and planning to make sure you leave no traces. The concerns are valid, it's why these KYC and AML requirements were put in place.

6 hours ago, tim0901 said:

Thoughts: It surprises me that only 20-30% of miners are even bothering to switch - I expected that number to be much higher. I guess it means we should expect eBay to be flooded with cards soon though.

I think the ones that intended to benefit from a price boost from a sudden surge of popularity in another coin probably already switched ages ago to e.g. RVN or ETC to stock up.

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4 hours ago, Sauron said:

At least on cruise ships you go somewhere, you eat, you sleep. It's wasteful but I can see some purpose. Crypto exclusively exists to scam people and make money in exchange for nothing.

While true at least with crypto they aren't exclusively running it off of some of the worst carbon emitting fuels out their and even not taking the little cost to try and capture those emissions or lessen them like you do on cars with catalytic converters. Honestly though I don't think cruise ships are really important enough to justify the huge energy consumption. There are plenty of ways to spend a vacation that aren't nearly as environmentally unfriendly and a health risk in general. 

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7 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Comparativrly speaking it is, good luck identifying someone based solely on their crypto wallet address...

That is order of magnitude easier than doing so from a note serial number, have you really thought this through.

 

Here @jagdtigger have this $10 note, it's a gift because whatever, does not matter (insert reason like birthday gift money). Now you go spend that $10 note. That $10 note is given to someone else as change from a larger denomination bill purchase. That $10 note is spent again. Blah blah blah etc etc, this note circles around for ages before finally at some point getting notarized and the serial recorded again.

 

At one point in it's life it was used to buy drugs. Ok using it's serial number tell me who had possession of said note and committed the crime? You can't, so serial numbers alone are utterly worthless for almost everything.

 

As @tikker very correctly and accurately explained you can in fact do this with cryptocurrencies from the transation ID and then the wallet address information contained within it.

 

So comparatively speaking no you are entirely wrong here.

 

This is not a for or against post for cryptocurrencies, simply pointing out the inbuilt and foundational function of cryptocurrencies is these ledgers which makes them the most traceable currencies. There is no real point trying to argue against this, to do so is to demonstrate the complete lack of understanding of how cryptocurrencies actually work. 

 

Don't have a care in the world if every single one disappeared over night.

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2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Well, cool - but you still pay in FIAT money in the store. Which will then get converted by VISA to BTC, at a highly volatile exchange rate (and probably some hefty fee). No, this is not acting like a currency, at all.

If a company offered a card that could would be backed by Pesos but able to purchase USD based products is that not a currency too? 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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33 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

a company offered a card that could would be backed by Pesos but able to purchase USD based products is that not a currency too? 

If the Peso is as volatile as BTC I would certainly draw the same conclusions in regards to usability of such a card.

So BTC may be a crypto currency, but not an actually usable currency IMHO.

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50 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

If a company offered a card that could would be backed by Pesos but able to purchase USD based products is that not a currency too? 

If a company offered a card that was backed by their stock, but able to purchase USD based products, is that stock not currency too?

 

(stock is not currency btw)

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17 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

So BTC may be a crypto currency, but not an actually usable currency IMHO.

So do you see how statements like "No, this is not acting like a currency, at all." and you personal opinion are drastically different

1 minute ago, starsmine said:

If a company offered a card that was backed by their stock, but able to purchase USD based products, is that stock not currency too?

 

(stock is not currency btw)

Yeah I know that. But it's literally called a crypto currency and is recognized by establishments as such

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

Yeah I know that. But it's literally called a crypto currency and is recognized by establishments as such

Yes they called it currency since that was the intention of it when it was made... except it fails to be one. 
Currency to be used as currency NEEDS to be stable, and needs to be something worth trading.

Making it act like an asset, and FORCING it to be deflationary makes it to be a poor currency. There was a fundamental misunderstanding on how finances work when it was created and everyone else has copied it. Stable coins tried to rectify it to an extent, but they still fail at their job of working as a currency.

Things can be traded, and have value, and can deflate, like say rare MTG cards, but that does not make them a currency, or even capable of becoming viable as one.

It is not recognized by establishments as a currency, it is recognized and treated as an asset that can be liquidated fairly easily into currency, no different then a stock on robinhood.
Which is why I used stocks as a comparison in how they are treated currency wise. I can, hypothetically buy something off of someone else by transferring ownership of a tesla stock. People do this somewhat regularly, just as often as people use crypto as a currency, companies do this all the time. 

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5 hours ago, starsmine said:

Currency to be used as currency NEEDS to be stable, and needs to be something worth trading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

 

Those aren't listed as necessary components of a currency. You're splitting hairs about things that are already established. Love it or hate it crypto is the future 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

Those aren't listed as necessary components of a currency. You're splitting hairs about things that are already established. Love it or hate it crypto is the future 

Stability may not be part of the formal definition, but it's nevertheless a hard requirement for a currency that is practically usable.

 

If I have 5€ in my pocket, it's a good thing to know that this will buy me a loaf of bread not just today, but also tomorrow and likely also next year. If I own 5 BTC instead, I have no idea whether it'll buy me a loaf of bread or a Porsche.

 

An inflationary currency is undesirable, but a deflationary currency is much much worse. Just think about the guy who spent 10k BTC on a pizza. He'd be a multi-millionaire today. He may be okay with his choice, but it teaches everyone else: HODL.

 

An economy where no one spends anything they don't absolutely have to is non-functional. If you need a historical example look at the Great Depression (or other examples from Wikipedia). That's why countries aim for slow and steady inflation—it encourages spending and thus economic growth—rather than deflation, because it encourages hoarding.

 

Bitcoin and other "crypto currencies" are not practically usable as a currency because of these two properties: There is a hard limit on how much of it can exist and, as a result of that, it is designed to be deflationary.

 

A hard limit on how much there is to go around means the amount of money in circulation can't adapt to economic growth (or decline). And because it is deflationary, people are encouraged to hold onto it. What happens once all the BTC have been minted? Most of it will be in the hands of a few wealthy individuals who will hold onto it forever. There's no money to go around, people can't get paid because there's no new money coming into the system and no one spends money on anything, because it'll be worth more tomorrow.

 

Love it or hate it, crypto is not the future. It works so long as people can produce a small amount of it and sell it (for actual currency) to someone betting on it being worth more tomorrow. Once people stop buying it because they have no hopes of selling it to anyone else at a higher price, the system will stop and the last person holding the bag will be out of a lot of money…

Remember to either quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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5 hours ago, Arika S said:

Be careful when buying GPUs that used to be used for mining. not everyone took care of them as well as you think they did

This PoS transition will result in a large number of cheap cards flooding the secondary market. I agree people should be careful, but also this is a great chance to get a powerful GPU, limit waste, and at least get something back from the sensless waste of PoW.LTT, Gamer Nexus and other sources have videos to help out. I would aim for 50% MSRP when buying 2 years old used with buyer's protection.

E.g. This is a used 2080Ti from a friend. The previous user had the wrong waterblock that bent the PCB. The card is working fine, but it's the kind of problems you can get with used.
image.thumb.jpeg.c01f2111d789b367f1a1d7efff398ec0.jpeg

 

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

 

Those aren't listed as necessary components of a currency. You're splitting hairs about things that are already established. Love it or hate it crypto is the future 

9 hours ago, starsmine said:

Currency to be used as currency NEEDS to be stable, and needs to be something worth trading.

Crypto is the future of money in as much as the Metaverse is the future of work, as 3DTV are the future of TV or as much as Ponzi Schemes are the future of stock markets. I declare that exactly zero of the tens of thousand of existing blockchain are going to be used at scale at any point in the future.

 

If there is a future, it's in CBDC, like the eCYN, where a government backed central entity can reverse transactions, provide insurance on deposits, settle disputes and handle KYC and AML, thus solving all outstanding problems of current blockchain implementations. Of course that's just rediscovering the last 1000 years of financial regulations. Just like Vitalik, after Voyager and Celsius collapsed, rediscovered why Insurance of deposits may be useful:

The way I heard best to determine if something is a currency, is to ask people "Would you like to get your paycheck in X?" In first world countries we are happy being paid in local currencies. In Turkey, not so much, as Lira has 80% inflation. Nigeria and Zimbawe? National currencies are worth less than the paper they are printed on at times. Blockchain? Useless, because you NEED to engage in the volatility and with unregulated exchanges to use it, exchanges prone to just freeze withdrawals at any moment.

The single most important quality of a currency is trust. Trust that at any moment the currency can be exchanged for goods and services no questions asked. Trust that one hour of work today will allow to buy the same amount of bread tomorrow or in a month. How can trust be lost? One way is volatility, another way is hyperinflation, another way is government instability. Blockchain are sometimes more stable than hyperinflating Dollar of Zimbawe, but that's about it. Even stablecoins are always 48h away from crashing to zero like UST.

 

Like stated earlier, transitioning from PoW to PoS address energy and hardware, but does nothing to adress other problems endemic with the technology. Because it's not something that can be tackled with technology. At the end of the day you need to trust someone to exchange something for something else. Building a trustless system just throw the users to the wolves...

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5 hours ago, BuckGup said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

 

Those aren't listed as necessary components of a currency. You're splitting hairs about things that are already established. Love it or hate it crypto is the future 

I agree that inherently a currency doesn't have to be stable to be used as a currency, but for a stable economy a stable currency is pretty important. You can't reliably build economic trust on a volatile currency. I might sell my computer for $1000 worth of crypto, but that's a pretty risky gamble if next month or week even that price can have dropped notably. The other person may feel like they missed out as well if the price rises notably. With a volatile currency I think you get both an aversion to sell and a hesitation to buy.

11 hours ago, starsmine said:

Making it act like an asset, and FORCING it to be deflationary makes it to be a poor currency. There was a fundamental misunderstanding on how finances work when it was created and everyone else has copied it. Stable coins tried to rectify it to an extent, but they still fail at their job of working as a currency.

Things can be traded, and have value, and can deflate, like say rare MTG cards, but that does not make them a currency, or even capable of becoming viable as one.

I think people just ran with the currency aspect. The Bitcoin white paper introduces it as a solution to the double-spending problem without a trusted third party, not as the next best thing, for example.

11 hours ago, starsmine said:

It is not recognized by establishments as a currency, it is recognized and treated as an asset that can be liquidated fairly easily into currency, no different then a stock on robinhood.
Which is why I used stocks as a comparison in how they are treated currency wise. I can, hypothetically buy something off of someone else by transferring ownership of a tesla stock. People do this somewhat regularly, just as often as people use crypto as a currency, companies do this all the time. 

Not completely. It is not recognised as legal tender in most places, but it's certainly a currency in the sense of circulation and being exchangeable for goods. There are multiple businesses here where I can use crypto to buy PC components or order food. Cryptocurrencies are a type of digital currency.

 

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