(Sorry, but Not SORRY. Microsoft AMA about much wanted features) Tali Roth, Says Moving the taskbar is not worth the effort to implement

[AnonymousGuy]

5 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

While I do think this is kind of the case, Microsoft has been heavily pushing touch screen for about a decade now (Metro anyone)...even though I'm willing to bet the telemetry data shows that the vast majority don't utilize touch that often.  I get that same feeling of when Windows 8 was released where it feels like it's just some corporate higher ups trying to justify what they are working on and doing projects that allow them to tick the boxes that say they have made progress/innovating.

I think at the time it was plausible that Windows on tablets was going to be a thing.  But they just never backed off when it became clear that it was never going to happen: people use an iPad for tablet activities and a laptop for compute activities. 

 

Why the fuck is Dial-up still on the front page for networking?!  Why is airplane mode even being presented for a desktop?  Or mobile hotspot?  Do the GUI people even have critical thinking skills?

 

 

Why did it take me 4 clicks to get here when this used to be the front page (actually it took me 12 because I kept thinking one of them would get me here but then it takes me to some random useless screen)?  And Operator-Assisted Dialing was dead 15 years ago, why is it still in Windows 11.

 

 

 

I assume there's someone who is getting paid an obscene amount of money to "architect" the GUI but they're failing horribly.  

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I think at the time it was plausible that Windows on tablets was going to be a thing.  But they just never backed off when it became clear that it was never going to happen: people use an iPad for tablet activities and a laptop for compute activities. 

It's more than that. the PC technology wasn't there. For battery life, and pricing (thanks to lack of competition), your only option was an Atom based system with some lovely early eMMC storage drive. So tablet running Windows could not take off.

 

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Why the fuck is Dial-up still on the front page for networking?!  Why is airplane mode even being presented for a desktop?  Or mobile hotspot?  Do the GUI people even have critical thinking skills?

They are many areas around the world where dial-up is their only option, including US. Apparently 3% of US homes are still on dial-up:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/3-of-americans-use-dial-up-at-home/. And this is just the US, you have the rest of the world.

 

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Why did it take me 4 clicks to get here when this used to be the front page (actually it took me 12 because I kept thinking one of them would get me here but then it takes me to some random useless screen)?  And Operator-Assisted Dialing was dead 15 years ago, why is it still in Windows 11.

Start > Settings > Network & Internet. That is 3 clicks.

You also have teh search box in the Settings panel that you can use, and you can search for settings in Start menu search box.

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

 

The service is still there for: Australia, US, Canada, Hong Kong and United Kingdom.

 

1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I assume there's someone who is getting paid an obscene amount of money to "architect" the GUI but they're failing horribly.  

It's called UI/UX designer and that is a job by itself, which is also made into reality by Front-End developers which is also a job.

They are many people working on it.

 

It is genuinely not easy. Look at all those concept design online, where 99% are just junk, and they don't need to handle where to put things, where and why... they just reskin Windows interface, or when there is new UX work, it is limited, more tweaks than anything actually new (starting from nothing). Or if it does look nice, but not actually practical in the real world. 

 

[Dietrichw]

14 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

AutoHDR is pretty useless imo. It does nothing to improve the image quality over the source SDR content. Literally all it does is to enable SDR content to reach the same peak brightness your monitor does in HDR. This results in an extremely bright overall image, which is NOT what HDR is supposed to be. The overall picture shouldn't be brighter than SDR, but with the additional headroom for bright highlights.

 

There is a reason why HDR content needs a different mastering process from SDR. And this algorithm is no substitute for that.

 

See above.

 

It's literally exactly the same as Windows 10. I have multiple REAL HDR displays and there is absolutely no difference. The reason why many people think HDR is garbage on Windows is because most Windows users have garbage HDR displays. The reason why people think Mac manages HDR better is because Apple can control (for most of it's products) exactly what displays are used and implement these accordingly. Not to mention apple has some darn impressive HDR displays to begin with.

 

W10 has window snapping too. Unless you need the "remember when replugged" feature, this doesn't add that much.

 

Those are some legit features thogh. But then we could also get into the removed features that were present on Windows 10 and the bugs still present in Windows 11. In the end most people are better off staying on Windows 10 for the forseeable future.

Yakuza Kiwami 2 with AutoHDR looked good. Kamurocho at night actually has some wow factor to it. There is more contrast from the dark shadows and bright neon signs, no detail is lost either. This is a best case scenario for AutoHDR though. I played Overcooked with it enabled and didn't even notice until I went back to Yakuza 2 and remembered that I had HDR enabled.

[RedRound2]

23 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Done. Insiders have it.

When is it coming out? Is it going to be part of 22H1 or 22H2 update?

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

snip

Tbh, you're justifying way too much for them. It doesn't take 10 years to port control panel to modern settings. Or have a consistent UI language like how they've shown off in multiple preview videos. And instead of working on those, they ended up breaking features we were already perfectly happy with it, and now they're wasting time fixing it/redoing it.

 

There's something seriously wrong with Microsoft culture to constantly bork softwares and apps like this. They're only relevant today because of they managed to capture the market very very early on. Today, most people are universally getting annoyed with Windows and its not a good sign for microsoft at all. And Linux is starting to become more and more popular year over year, so Microsoft really needs to get their shit together if they want still remain relevant after 20 years in consumer space

[GoodBytes]

5 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

When is it coming out? Is it going to be part of 22H1 or 22H2 update?

Technically speaking it should be coming in October as this is when Windows 11 new version was released,

But Microsoft did release an unexpected "Feature Update"  in Jan, where it was an update with new features that they selected from the Insider program. And last month, they did issue an update to add default web browser button to the default file association, which was another feature that Insiders had a while back. 

 

So, it could be released in a few months or we would have to wait until the end of the year (Oct).

 

5 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Tbh, you're justifying way too much for them.

I don't. 

I understanding that when things change, there is a learning curve to some degree as a result. And yes, I do understanding that one needs to dig around when it comes for the first time to discover them. I am on the Insider program so I get to play and be comfortable with changes before most. I also know how one can be frustrated, to come degree, or at least annoyed, when things moves around, such as Settings.

 

It was obvious to me that you passed through that. I did too. But I don't mix my learning experience (which obviously means having me to poke around things until I learn where things are) as steps one needs to take to get there. My point was to show you it was closer than you expect. I had to mention it to reduce other readers, who don't know or don't have Windows 11 to try think that this is a fact when it isn't. I always have to take in consideration other readers which might be reading this today, or might read this 6 months from now.

 

 

5 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

It doesn't take 10 years to port control panel to modern settings. Or have a consistent UI language like how they've shown off in multiple preview videos. And instead of working on those, they ended up breaking features we were already perfectly happy with it, and now they're wasting time fixing it/redoing it.

I fully agree. All I know, and this is no justification for a company like Microsoft to experience, lost its leader of the Windows team early on, and basically devs seems to all tackle different projects, and then things lead that a good part of the team went to work on Windows 10X. Until it got a new leader with a sense of direction, and basically cancelled Windows 10X, and had the team focus on Windows and consumer features.  It is just unacceptable that for years, Microsoft executives didn't focus on getting a leader for its Windows OS. That is just inexcusable for a company of this caliber to experience. 

 

5 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

There's something seriously wrong with Microsoft culture to constantly bork softwares and apps like this. They're only relevant today because of they managed to capture the market very very early on. Today, most people are universally getting annoyed with Windows and its not a good sign for microsoft at all. And Linux is starting to become more and more popular year over year, so Microsoft really needs to get their shit together if they want still remain relevant after 20 years in consumer space

Linus based OS isn't getting popular. It is getting more attention. But that is all. Linux based OS has it's long set of issues. Many of which dates back to 1998.

 

Windows success is because they have always been this "in-between" OS. Mixing the ease of use of MacOS and yet provide the power looked by power users.

The cool thing Windows, and this is what people forget, is that... it is powerful.. if you want to replace the interface shell, you can. You can change things in the registry to tell it not to load explorer.exe and load an alternate executable. But you don't need to go that far. The shell is in components. This is how we got Start menu replacements, and I expect to see taskbar replacement to be a thing. As a developer, I can assure you, Microsoft has all the APIs to make a new, full featured, task bar. You have APIs to get the status of programs, get the list of running programs, get their titles, to know if the application is minimized or not, and everything you need for thumbnail preview. It is obviously a lot of work, but it can be done.

 

Things aren't locked down. Sure you can argue, "Well it should be native", sure. The point is that it has a lot of flexibility, more than what you would expect. And that is the cool thing with Windows. It's not Linux by any long shot, and cannot come close, ever. Architecturally impossible. But it doesn't aim to be. The boat has sail for server environment. It's focus is on consumer devices (desktop, laptop, tablet (convertible devices), and (well, was in this case... but maybe in the future) phones).

[Ultraforce]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:02 PM, Brooksie359 said:

Can anyone tell me what new features they added to windows 11 over windows 10 that would actually justify the switch to windows 11? Because so far it sounds like they took windows 10 and made a worse copy or it. 

One thing that I've heard pretty good things about is the running Linux GUI apps with the updated WSL

[WereCat]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:28 AM, GoodBytes said:

Windows 11 has a new code base for its taskbar, and introduces touch gestures that would need to be adapted based in the taskbar location. It has more of them under Insider program.

 

It's not that it is impossible to do, or super time consuming. A few months of work focused on it, can make it all happen. It's just not a priority for Microsoft.

 

Considering that the taskbar on the right and left, since Windows 7, carries the same bugs and same limitations that don't exist when the taskbar is at the bottom, all the way to today under Windows 10, shows how little people actually move the taskbar.

 

Microsoft priorities it's work based on telemetry data. This is why Windows 8 introduced many multiscreen improvements, and expanded further with Windows 10, multiscreen setup has grown notably since. Previously, Microsoft didn't care. Taskbar was on one screen only. Wallpaper was the same as on the main.

 

In this case, Microsoft prefer to focus on its GUI, to be more consistent, dark theme everywhere, tabs in File Explore, move more Control Panel to Settings, continue to improve Windows Terminal, and various IT features for remote work environment, then supporting taskbar location.

 

As for the icon only, introduced done Win 7 it is widely used. In fact, I never saw, beside myself, anyone using the title next to icons since. Not in classroom, not when I worked as IT, not in the work place as a software developer. Already had discussion with people.. in their view, they don't need titles, they just hover on the icon, then hover on the preview, and it brings in large, in front of them, what they are looking for and click on it. Their arguments is that title is useless, all they nearly all show the program name. The name is so long that to the file/project loaded name is cut off many times. Also got as a response that it takes less space on it, so more is visible.

I think it was Linus that described the YT problem that everything they do is based on a scale?

 

Basically, so many users use this that even if 0.1% are not happy it is a massive number of users. I guess that Windows does fall into this category as well and therefore it's impossible to please your whole user base.

 

MS sees 0.1% and they decide it's not worth to make Task Bar movable for them but this may be 1M people that are complaining.

[Montana One-Six]

On 4/11/2022 at 2:21 AM, Kisai said:

I recently (like last year) wound up moving the taskbar to the top of the screen because it's more comfortable at that eye level.

 

That said, Microsoft is right. There are frequently applications, particularly "windowed full screen" type of applications that assume they can start at 0,0 on the screen, and end up with the entire menu behind the taskbar, so you can't move the app, you have to move the task bar to the right so it forces a resize, and then drag it back. Presumably in 11 they changed something so that the desktop applications can't intrude on the taskbar space, like in OSX, maybe it's some crappy webview nonsense built into the taskbar and that keeps it from being moved since it would cause all the reflow to be in the wrong place.

 

At any rate, it's not a feature I care that much about, but it would be more frustrating to not be able to move it since applications still insist on taking up the entire screen real estate, and alt-tabbing doesn't bring the taskbar back in those applications.

 

 

I have my taskbar on the top of my screen for over 15 years now. It has always been a problem even in Win7 and Win8.

 

With that said since I have been using Win10 that doesn't really happen that often anymore, maybe once a month or even less. Probably because almost all apps remember where they were opened last so it usually only happens the first time you use that app.

 

[darknessblade]

35 minutes ago, James Evens said:

You can't tell me the majority likes this new setting app. Just compare the old remove program page to the current version:

 

 

With Windows 11 this probably got worse. Still have a few years before I need to worry about daily driving Linux or masochistic enjoying Windows 11.

You also forgot to mention that you can have multiple instances of the Control panel open, but only 1 of the settings panel, just for those hard to remove programs, where you need 2+ control panels open

[WereCat]

1 hour ago, James Evens said:

You can't tell me the majority likes this new setting app. Just compare the old remove program page to the current version:

 

 

With Windows 11 this probably got worse. Still have a few years before I need to worry about daily driving Linux or masochistic enjoying Windows 11.

I don't like it as well but I assure that majority of all users do not even go to these settings.

[darknessblade]

17 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I don't like it as well but I assure that majority of all users do not even go to these settings.

That is because the majority of users does not know how to remove "malicious" programs.

 

And if they look up guides, they find the guide for the old control panel, even though that does not exist anymore, then they complain that they cannot remove said program, or that the guide no longer works.

 

There is a good saying for this

 

If it aint broke don't fix it

[Ultraforce]

I imagine most users who might not know too much but want to remove programs just search for the folder with the program and delete it. I know I used to do that and have still tried that a few times because some programs when I run their uninstall script and the remove programs stuff just don't go away.

[GoodBytes]

9 hours ago, darknessblade said:

That is because the majority of users does not know how to remove "malicious" programs.

 

And if they look up guides, they find the guide for the old control panel, even though that does not exist anymore, then they complain that they cannot remove said program, or that the guide no longer works.

 

There is a good saying for this

 

If it aint broke don't fix it

But was is broken.

 

The Control Panel was an inconsistent mess. You didn't know what you'll get. 

• In addition, the panels were not high-DPI aware.
• It could not search through the panels. It had predefined "if user search for this, return that as answer", not actual search system. It was silly.
• It was also not inviting to users. We are power user, we are good, we can deal with mess. For a normal user, they would just close it, and ask someone. There won't be any attempt in trying to figure it out. Things needs to be clear and simple. XP tried to have a layer on top to add simplification, and new layout designed for the panel most likely to be used.. but that didn't help. Windows 7 tried something else, but nope. Windows 10 seem to be going in the right direction. Working with people offering IT services, I noticed that there is more a will to go into it, and find options including removing a program. Now of course, this is a sample size of a few, in my surrounding... but promising nonetheless.
• Not touch friendly at all. Yes, YOU, Mr. Desktop... the very few people with desktops in this planet, have an issue. But laptops with a touch screen is growing, and many people do have them. And so is convertible devices which seems to sales pretty well, with all manufactures having at least 1 model, which they keep updating.
• Each "panel" of the control panel, were treated as a separate application... applications that were using old software models... meaning no real separation between the functionality of the application and the GUI. If the GUI needed to change, unqualified developers with little to no/limited skill/experience on that front had to change it (backend developer doing teh work of a frontend developer). Now, they can change the entire design, and not have to bug any developers who work on the functionality side of things. We saw this with Windows 11. The Settings panel got an entire redesign... you don't have a mix of Windows 10 and 11 inside it.

 

[gamagama69]

On 4/11/2022 at 6:49 AM, Stahlmann said:

AutoHDR is pretty useless imo. It does nothing to improve the image quality over the source SDR content. Literally all it does is to enable SDR content to reach the same peak brightness your monitor does in HDR. This results in an extremely bright overall image, which is NOT what HDR is supposed to be. The overall picture shouldn't be brighter than SDR, but with the additional headroom for bright highlights.

 

There is a reason why HDR content needs a different mastering process from SDR. And this algorithm is no substitute for that.

 

See above.

 

It's literally exactly the same as Windows 10. I have multiple REAL HDR displays and there is absolutely no difference. The reason why many people think HDR is garbage on Windows is because most Windows users have garbage HDR displays. The reason why people think Mac manages HDR better is because Apple can control (for most of it's products) exactly what displays are used and implement these accordingly. Not to mention apple has some darn impressive HDR displays to begin with.

 

W10 has window snapping too. Unless you need the "remember when replugged" feature, this doesn't add that much.

 

Those are some legit features thogh. But then we could also get into the removed features that were present on Windows 10 and the bugs still present in Windows 11. In the end most people are better off staying on Windows 10 for the forseeable future.

I mean I like my garbage hdr monitor for actual hdr games it looks better but not for sdr content. I'm stil on windows 10 because I've had amd ftpm issues when testing with that enabled, and oculus headsets seem to have performance issues, but auto hdr seems nice. I don't have to big through settings, and hope my monitor resetting doesn't crash the game I have open

[wanderingfool2]

20 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

• In addition, the panels were not high-DPI aware.
• It could not search through the panels. It had predefined "if user search for this, return that as answer", not actual search system. It was silly.
• It was also not inviting to users. We are power user, we are good, we can deal with mess. For a normal user, they would just close it, and ask someone. There won't be any attempt in trying to figure it out. Things needs to be clear and simple. XP tried to have a layer on top to add simplification, and new layout designed for the panel most likely to be used.. but that didn't help. Windows 7 tried something else, but nope. Windows 10 seem to be going in the right direction. Working with people offering IT services, I noticed that there is more a will to go into it, and find options including removing a program. Now of course, this is a sample size of a few, in my surrounding... but promising nonetheless.
• Not touch friendly at all. Yes, YOU, Mr. Desktop... the very few people with desktops in this planet, have an issue. But laptops with a touch screen is growing, and many people do have them. And so is convertible devices which seems to sales pretty well, with all manufactures having at least 1 model, which they keep updating.
• Each "panel" of the control panel, were treated as a separate application... applications that were using old software models... meaning no real separation between the functionality of the application and the GUI. If the GUI needed to change, unqualified developers with little to no/limited skill/experience on that front had to change it (backend developer doing teh work of a frontend developer). Now, they can change the entire design, and not have to bug any developers who work on the functionality side of things. We saw this with Windows 11. The Settings panel got an entire redesign... you don't have a mix of Windows 10 and 11 inside it.

 

They could have "redesigned" it to separate the GUI from application so that it still follows the same look of old control panel.  There are countless times where I've tried doing 2 things in the setting panel only to have it completely useless as it only allows one open at a time.  Some things should not be sacrificed.

 

Searching could easily have been added as well

 

Settings isn't exactly inviting either

 

Out of everyone I know no one uses Windows exclusively as touch screen (touch screen being only a feature to use when needed, not as the primary driver)..it also is still relatively touch friendly

[YamiYukiSenpai]

HAH!!!! Love the dislikes

 

And they're planning on bringing STICKERS!!  They replace Gadgets with useless Widgets that won't work unless my PC's connected with my MS account, and they waste time with STICKERS!!

[ryao]

On 4/10/2022 at 5:18 PM, darknessblade said:

Summary

 Tali Roth, Microsoft's Head of Product Says Features like Moving the taskbar to the left or right side of your desktop screen is not a important feature

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Can someone please start a Petition to get " Tali Roth" FIRED. this is a feature many people want in windows 11 and have been using for decades.

Claiming apps and programs cannot work with it is UTTER BS. since this has been working fine for AGES, even on Windows 10, there have been no issues at all, even with using Full screen store apps.

 

Even I use this feature DAILY on every PC and laptop I have. it is really nice having a easy to use list of all programs, folders, etc.

 

Like when moving about 5+TB from external disks to a NAS disk its easy to have all folders open in a easy to use list {not looking at the TAB feature they implemented in windows 11} as I can open folders in a easy to read list in order of what File goes to what "Temp Folder on my NAS".  before checking all files for duplicates using programs like Windir.

 

Sources

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-says-changing-taskbar-location-in-windows-11-is-not-important/

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/will-windows-11-be-adding-the-feature-to-move-our/7336b19f-6d22-4eb1-9d74-234b882793ae

 

If it was not important, why did they do it?

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

many people do have them

Having it doesnt mean they use it, im pretty sure 99% dont use it. This whole farce MS is staging since the release of 8 is about a non-existent market.

[LAwLz]

15 hours ago, darknessblade said:

You also forgot to mention that you can have multiple instances of the Control panel open, but only 1 of the settings panel, just for those hard to remove programs, where you need 2+ control panels open

That drives me crazy. Why the fuck is Microsoft so obsessed with making all their newer programs not able to run in multiple Windows?

The OS is literally called "windows", and yet we are not allowed to use more than one window anymore?

[Forbidden Wafer]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That drives me crazy. Why the fuck is Microsoft so obsessed with making all their newer programs not able to run in multiple Windows?

The OS is literally called "windows", and yet we are not allowed to use more than one window anymore?

Because they're keeping the state of that in the registry, and there's a separate hive for each instance, and they don't want to deal with consolidating two different versions, so they limit it to a single instance. 

 

The control panel settings are all global, so there's a single state to track. 

 

A. K. A. They're lazier than expected. 

[RedRound2]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

Technically speaking it should be coming in October as this is when Windows 11 new version was released,

But Microsoft did release an unexpected "Feature Update"  in Jan, where it was an update with new features that they selected from the Insider program. And last month, they did issue an update to add default web browser button to the default file association, which was another feature that Insiders had a while back. 

So, it could be released in a few months or we would have to wait until the end of the year (Oct).

That's still a lot of time for relatively a simple feature. IMO they should consider it as a hotfix, than a feature because technically they broke a existing feature

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

I don't. 

I understanding that when things change, there is a learning curve to some degree as a result. And yes, I do understanding that one needs to dig around when it comes for the first time to discover them. I am on the Insider program so I get to play and be comfortable with changes before most. I also know how one can be frustrated, to come degree, or at least annoyed, when things moves around, such as Settings.

 

It was obvious to me that you passed through that. I did too. But I don't mix my learning experience (which obviously means having me to poke around things until I learn where things are) as steps one needs to take to get there. My point was to show you it was closer than you expect. I had to mention it to reduce other readers, who don't know or don't have Windows 11 to try think that this is a fact when it isn't. I always have to take in consideration other readers which might be reading this today, or might read this 6 months from now.

I am totally fine with interface changes and UI changes, which might sometimes even require you to relearn. And I agree that there are a lot of people here on the forum that are reluctant to any changes. For me its more like a fresh coat of paint and I'll become excited to dig around and find new things. That's why I am one of those people who just loves updating anything and everything even though its not recommended at all

 

But the problem starts when relatively useful and easy to use features get completely messed that makes the new OS unusable. And this kind of thing rarely happens with other companies. Its like I have a program and the new updated completely borked Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V making it pretty much unusable. Its an exaggeration obviously, but you get the point. Its still weird to me what a clusterfuck the settings page is, and with every update it changes and becomes more fragmented

 

Another annoyance I have, they changed Action center shortcut. I dont like having notifications piled up, so I used to press Ctrl+A to open up and dismiss it. Now that just opens the quick settings panel (and dont even get me started on quick settings - Its a royal pain in the ass to switch bluetooth headsets and its not even funny)

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

I fully agree. All I know, and this is no justification for a company like Microsoft to experience, lost its leader of the Windows team early on, and basically devs seems to all tackle different projects, and then things lead that a good part of the team went to work on Windows 10X. Until it got a new leader with a sense of direction, and basically cancelled Windows 10X, and had the team focus on Windows and consumer features.  It is just unacceptable that for years, Microsoft executives didn't focus on getting a leader for its Windows OS. That is just inexcusable for a company of this caliber to experience. 

Exactly.

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

Linus based OS isn't getting popular. It is getting more attention. But that is all. Linux based OS has it's long set of issues. Many of which dates back to 1998.

Its getting more attention because it is getting more popular, or it could be vice versa. Either way, I think these days I would be pretty confident giving Ubuntu to people like parents and grandparents who would only use their PC to browse the web. Heck a guy in my office uses Raspberry Pi as his daily PC and he gets quite a lot done on it as well

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

Windows success is because they have always been this "in-between" OS. Mixing the ease of use of MacOS and yet provide the power looked by power users.

The cool thing Windows, and this is what people forget, is that... it is powerful.. if you want to replace the interface shell, you can. You can change things in the registry to tell it not to load explorer.exe and load an alternate executable.

I dont think many people use Windows for any of these "features". People use it because its default and most apps are available on it. Engineering is one area where Windows is pretty much the only option you got (like me).

On 4/12/2022 at 6:22 PM, GoodBytes said:

Things aren't locked down. Sure you can argue, "Well it should be native", sure. The point is that it has a lot of flexibility, more than what you would expect. And that is the cool thing with Windows. It's not Linux by any long shot, and cannot come close, ever. Architecturally impossible. But it doesn't aim to be. The boat has sail for server environment. It's focus is on consumer devices (desktop, laptop, tablet (convertible devices), and (well, was in this case... but maybe in the future) phones).

Its not about lock down. Trust me, most people who actually use windows are unaware about all of this. They'd be perfectly happy with Mac or Linux if they were already used to those platforms. Very very few people actually cares about any of this. What Microsoft effectively has been doing past 10 years is annoy customers with their weird updates. My dad and grandad both switched to Mac and they're quite happy with it, instead of dealing with whatever Windows 8 was. But dad aint as happy as he could because apps like Excel and AutoCad are still better on Windows

[Thaldor]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:53 AM, LAwLz said:

That drives me crazy. Why the fuck is Microsoft so obsessed with making all their newer programs not able to run in multiple Windows?

The OS is literally called "windows", and yet we are not allowed to use more than one window anymore?

Because it's not inviting and it's confusing to the Microsofts new target audience, the techilliterate. They wanted to create Windows 101 (for dummies) but it would have been too much work to handle 2 different Windowses, so came the big brain moment and they dropped the "0" out and vóla, Windows 11 was designed.

 

Only thing now standing between Microsoft and their goal to try to become Apple2.0 is the techliterate usergroup that probably hasn't even bought Windows 10 license but transferred it from some of their old PC because Microsoft gave them a free upgrade from 7 and 8 in good spirit they can test 10 before buying a new computer with Windows 10 license. Can you imagine how much Windows lost money with that? The rudeness they use for not buying new Surface chrome... laptop with every new feature update and especially with every new Windows version, they dare to use a desktop and custom build it and upgrade it's graphics card without buying a whole new computer with a new Windows license. And not only that but they want to power use their computers, they don't want touch screens and nice Microsoft blue microfiber cloths to clean the fingergrease. They complain about the great and excellent workflows Microsoft has been so hard designing for them to optimize their work, instead they want customization so they can do their own work optimization and they have the audacity to claim they know better than the next to God Microsoft marketing and designing team.

 

And can't you just understand that the team leader cannot get bonuses to buy a new car with only updates to old technologies. They need to be completely new and shiny to be desirable enough for the target group and the marketing team can make a nice ad about them being completely new and miraculous. Praise the Marketing Team!

 

Also it would require 14 years of engineering work to get that done, just like that the public toilet could accept other than 1€ coins. Completely impossible. (Some other Finn can explain "Sakke the Engineer" from Sami Hedberg)

 

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Most likely the reason is the same as why Microshit kicked the testing team out and thinks running few virtual machines is good enough testing before pushing it to the people who accidentally press the "Check for updates" button. They just couldn't care less and they only care about their vision and that they get some new and shiny crap that they can show to people for who a right-click is too technical. Also doing that would cost and with the Surface selling like hot rocks (as in literally hot rocks not metaphorically, as a hot rocks would sell if you tried to sell them instead of laptops), they probably have couple and more reasons to make Windows 11 just about unusable with anything else than grease screens that no one really finds very useful at least yet (if they would there would be a lot more of them and the certain other company would be adding them too).

 

And for the end argument. If you thought engineers are PIA because they think they know everything and are the best, oh boy, you haven't met UI/UX designers and if you have survived without that encounter, I pray you never get to suffer it. They are like engineers, they know everything and are always right, but they don't even hide it that they have no idea how someone could do what they want something to do or even does someone want that and they will let out the worst scream you will ever hear if you manage to prove their design is impossible to make and people would rather cut their hands off with a spoon and remove their eyes with a frying pan than use whatever crap they thought would be "new and inspiring".

[braiam]

It's incredible that people are this upset about a taskbar, calling for the firing of someone, yet they don't consider moving to another OS. Maybe I should get a soapbox and a megaphone and yell: VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS PEOPLE

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, braiam said:

It's incredible that people are this upset about a taskbar, calling for the firing of someone, yet they don't consider moving to another OS. Maybe I should get a soapbox and a megaphone and yell: VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS PEOPLE

People are upset because people want to use Windows, but Microsoft are ruining it.

 

"Just switch OS" is like saying "just get a new friend" if your friend becomes an alcoholic. The first step should be to tell your friend "hey, stop what you are doing. This is bad. Let's go back to how things were before, when things were good".

Your first instinct to something bad should not be "I am going to severe all ties I have with this without even voicing a complaint or explain why I am doing it".

[Ultraforce]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

People are upset because people want to use Windows, but Microsoft are ruining it.

 

"Just switch OS" is like saying "just get a new friend" if your friend becomes an alcoholic. The first step should be to tell your friend "hey, stop what you are doing. This is bad. Let's go back to how things were before, when things were good".

Your first instinct to something bad should not be "I am going to severe all ties I have with this without even voicing a complaint or explain why I am doing it".

I don't disagree that it's understandable to be upset with the whole taskbar thing. At the same time, calling for someone to be fired for that is also completely ridiculous and makes the original poster seem like a clown.

Yes, Microsoft should work on implementing it and hearing that it's a low priority is disappointing.

At the same time from the OP's own post it's not like she insulted people who wanted it, just that they currently have other priorities to work on currently.

Quote

And when you look at the data, while we know there is a set of people that love it that way and, like, really appreciate it, we also recognize that this set of users is really small compared to the set of other folks that are asking for other features. So at the moment we are continuing to focus on things that I hear more pain around.

It is one of those things that we are still continuing to look at, and we will keep looking to feedback, but at the moment we do not have a plan or a set date for when we would, or if we should, actually build the side taskbar.