Posted November 18, 2021 Summary Recently in the GTA community there has been an uproar against take 2 for taking down fan mods which improved the games and have been out for for decades, fans were more triggered with the release of the remaster which didn't fix anything from the original game, introduced new bugs (not gonna lie, you'll forgive cyberpunk after you experience those bugs and glitches). But finnally, A group of modders behind the popular reverse engineered Grand Theft Auto fan projects re3 and reVC have responded to a lawsuit by Take-Two, arguing that their projects are protected under fair use. Quotes Quote As reported by Torrent Freak, the individuals behind the projects are fighting back against a lawsuit filed by Take-Two after a dispute over whether the fan's work should be taken down. Following the initial release of the reverse-engineered versions of the games earlier this year, TakeTwo and Rockstar filed a DMCA takedown notice at Github to have the repositories removed from the site claiming copyright infringement. However, when the files were restored by the team through a counternotice filed on Github, the publisher took a different approach by filing a lawsuit against those involved. The lawsuit, which was filed in September, claims that the projects acted to create and distribute pirated copies of GTA 3 and Vice City and demands damages under copyright law. The lawsuit claims that the modders "willfully and maliciously" copied and adapted the games' source code before distributing it without consent from the publisher. However, the modders have responded to the lawsuit stating that their actions were lawful and protected under the Copyright Act. The defense is reportedly claiming that any copyrighted material that was used in the projects was done so to allow the team to fix bugs that were present in the original games. My thoughts Well I already made a article about it in general discussion, and in my opinion take 2 needs to lose this lawsuit, the way take 2 has been taking down these mods is just like if a car company sued you for disassembling and fixing/modifying your car or some phone company suing you for repairing your phone by yourself or for installing a custom OS or maybe a pre built PC vendor sueing some popular company like asus,msi,asrock,pcmr for giving away free graphics cards which fit into their pre built PCs. Some of this stuff fall under the violation of end user policy but you can't take legal action, let alone copyright strike someone for doing that as far as I know. Sources https://www.ign.com/articles/gta-modders-fight-take-two-court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 This is pretty interesting, and I hope they win. You'd think that they'd have learned from Bethesda by now, that a strong modding community makes for a longer-lasting game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, tkitch said: This is pretty interesting, and I hope they win. You'd think that they'd have learned from Bethesda by now, that a strong modding community makes for a longer-lasting game! Think corporate or more realistically backwards ▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO Just keeping this here as a backup 9̵̨̢̨̧̧̡̧̡̧̡̧̡̡̢̢̡̢̧̡̢̡̡̢̧̛̛̛̛̛̛̱̖͈̠̝̯̹͉̝̞̩̠̹̺̰̺̲̳͈̞̻̜̫̹̱̗̣͙̻̘͎̲̝͙͍͔̯̲̟̞͚̖̘͉̭̰̣͎͕̼̼̜̼͕͎̣͇͓͓͎̼̺̯͈̤̝͖̩̭͍̣̱̞̬̺̯̼̤̲͎̖̠̟͍̘̭͔̟̗̙̗̗̤̦͍̫̬͔̦̳̗̳͔̞̼̝͍̝͈̻͇̭̠͈̳͍̫̮̥̭͍͔͈̠̹̼̬̰͈̤͚̖̯͍͉͖̥̹̺͕̲̥̤̺̹̹̪̺̺̭͕͓̟̳̹͍̖͎̣̫͓͍͈͕̳̹̙̰͉͙̝̜̠̥̝̲̮̬͕̰̹̳͕̰̲̣̯̫̮͙̹̮͙̮̝̣͇̺̺͇̺̺͈̳̜̣̙̻̣̜̻̦͚̹̩͓͚̖͍̥̟͍͎̦͙̫̜͔̭̥͈̬̝̺̩͙͙͉̻̰̬̗̣͖̦͎̥̜̬̹͓͈͙̤̜̗͔̩̖̳̫̑̀̂̽̈́̈́̿͒̿̋̊͌̾̄̄̒̌͐̽̿̊͑̑̆͗̈̎̄͒̑̋͛̑͑̂͑̀͐̀͑̓͊̇͆̿͑͛͛͆́͆̓̿̇̀̓͑͆͂̓̾̏͊̀̇̍̃́̒̎̀̒̄̓̒̐̑̊̏̌̽̓͂͋̓̐̓͊̌͋̀̐̇̌̓̔͊̈̇́̏͒̋͊̓̆̋̈̀̌̔͆͑̈̐̈̍̀̉̋̈́͊̽͂̿͌͊̆̾̉͐̿̓̄̾͑̈́͗͗̂̂́̇͂̀̈́́̽̈́̓̓͂̽̓̀̄͌̐̔̄̄͒͌̈́̅̉͊̂͒̀̈́̌͂̽̀̑̏̽̀͑̐̐͋̀̀͋̓̅͋͗̍́͗̈́̆̏̇͊̌̏̔̑̐̈́͑̎͑͆̏̎́̑̍̏̒̌̊͘͘̚̕̚̕̕̚̕̚̕̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅͅͅ8̵̨̛̛̛̛̮͍͕̥͉̦̥̱̞̜̫̘̤̖̬͍͇͓̜̻̪̤̣̣̹̑͑̏̈́̐̐́̎͒̔͒̌̑̓̆̓͑̉̈́́͋̌͋͐͛͋̃̍̽̊͗͋͊̂̅͊͑́͋͛̉̏̓͌̾̈́̀͛͊̾͑̌̀̀̌̓̏̑́̄̉̌͂́͛̋͊̄͐͊̈́̀̌̆̎̿̓̔̍̎̀̍̚̕̕͘͘͘̕̚͝͝͠͠͠0̶̡̡̡̢̨̨͕̠̠͉̺̻̯̱̘͇̥͎͖̯͕̖̬̭͔̪̪͎̺̠̤̬̬̤̣̭̣͍̥̱̘̳̣̤͚̭̥͚̦͙̱̦͕̼͖͙͕͇̭͓͉͎̹̣̣͕̜͍͖̳̭͕̼̳̖̩͍͔̱̙̠̝̺̰̦̱̿̄̀͐͜͜ͅͅt̶̡̨̡̨̧̢̧̢̨̧̧̧̧̢̡̨̨̢̨̢̧̢̛̛̛̛̛̠͍̞̮͇̪͉̩̗̗͖̫͉͎͓̮̣̘̫͔̘̬̮̙̯̣͕͓̲̣͓͓̣̹̟͈̱͚̘̼̙̖̖̼̙̜̝͙̣̠̪̲̞̖̠̯̖̠̜̱͉̲̺͙̤̻̦̜͎̙̳̺̭̪̱͓̦̹̺͙̫̖̖̰̣͈͍̜̺̘͕̬̥͇̗̖̺̣̲̫̟̣̜̭̟̱̳̳̖͖͇̹̯̜̹͙̻̥̙͉͕̜͎͕̦͕̱͖͉̜̹̱̦͔͎̲̦͔̖̘̫̻̹̮̗̮̜̰͇̰͔̱͙̞̠͍͉͕̳͍̰̠̗̠̯̜̩͓̭̺̦̲̲͖̯̩̲̣̠͉̦̬͓̠̜̲͍̘͇̳̳͔̼̣͚̙͙͚͕̙̘̣̠͍̟̪̝̲͇͚̦̖͕̰̟̪͖̳̲͉͙̰̭̼̩̟̝̣̝̬̳͎̙̱͒̃̈͊̔͒͗̐̄̌͐͆̍͂̃̈́̾͗̅̐͒̓̆͛̂̾͋̍͂̂̄̇̿̈͌̅̈́̃̾̔̇̇̾̀͊͋̋̌̄͌͆͆̎̓̈́̾̊͊̇̌̔̈́̈́̀̐͊̊̍͑̊̈̓͑̀́̅̀̑̈́̽̃̽͛̇́̐̓̀͆̔̈̀̍̏̆̓̆͒̋́̋̍́̂̉͛̓̓̂̋̎́̒̏̈͋̃̽͆̓̀̔͑̈́̓͌͑̅̽́̐̍̉̑̓̈́͌̋̈́͂̊́͆͂̇̈́̔̃͌̅̈́͌͛̑̐̓̔̈́̀͊͛̐̾͐̔̾̈̃̈̄͑̓̋̇̉̉̚̕̚͘̕̚̚̕̕͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͠ͅͅͅͅͅi̵̢̧̢̧̡̧̢̢̧̢̢̢̡̡̡̧̧̡̡̧̛̛͈̺̲̫͕̞͓̥̖̭̜̫͉̻̗̭̖͔̮̠͇̩̹̱͈̗̭͈̤̠̮͙͇̲͙̰̳̹̲͙̜̟͚͎͓̦̫͚̻̟̰̣̲̺̦̫͓̖̯̝̬͉̯͓͈̫̭̜̱̞̹̪͔̤̜͙͓̗̗̻̟͎͇̺̘̯̲̝̫͚̰̹̫̗̳̣͙̮̱̲͕̺̠͉̫̖̟͖̦͉̟͈̭̣̹̱̖̗̺̘̦̠̯̲͔̘̱̣͙̩̻̰̠͓͙̰̺̠̖̟̗̖͉̞̣̥̝̤̫̫̜͕̻͉̺͚̣̝̥͇̭͎̖̦̙̲͈̲̠̹̼͎͕̩͓̖̥̘̱̜͙̹̝͔̭̣̮̗̞̩̣̬̯̜̻̯̩̮̩̹̻̯̬̖͂̈͂̒̇͗͑̐̌̎̑̽̑̈̈́͑̽́̊͋̿͊͋̅̐̈́͑̇̿̈́̌͌̊̅͂̎͆̏̓͂̈̿̏̃͑̏̓͆̔̋̎̕͘͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͠͠ͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅZ̴̧̢̨̢̧̢̢̡̧̢̢̢̨̨̨̡̨̧̢̧̛̛̬̖͈̮̝̭̖͖̗̹̣̼̼̘̘̫̠̭̞͙͔͙̜̠̗̪̠̼̫̻͓̳̟̲̳̻̙̼͇̺͎̘̹̼͔̺̹̬̯̤̮̟͈̭̻͚̣̲͔͙̥͕̣̻̰͈̼̱̺̤̤͉̙̦̩̗͎̞͓̭̞̗͉̳̭̭̺̹̹̮͕̘̪̞̱̥͈̹̳͇̟̹̱̙͚̯̮̳̤͍̪̞̦̳̦͍̲̥̳͇̪̬̰̠͙͕̖̝̫̩̯̱̘͓͎̪͈̤̜͎̱̹̹̱̲̻͎̖̳͚̭̪̦̗̬͍̯̘̣̩̬͖̝̹̣̗̭͖̜͕̼̼̲̭͕͔̩͓̞̝͓͍̗̙̯͔̯̞̝̳̜̜͉̖̩͇̩̘̪̥̱͓̭͎͖̱̙̩̜͎̙͉̟͎͔̝̥͕͍͓̹̮̦̫͚̠̯͓̱͖͔͓̤͉̠͙̋͐̀͌̈́͆̾͆̑̔͂͒̀̊̀͋͑̂͊̅͐̿́̈́̐̀̏̋̃̄͆͒̈́̿̎́́̈̀̀͌̔͋͊̊̉̿͗͊͑̔͐̇͆͛̂̐͊̉̄̈́̄̐͂͂͒͑͗̓͑̓̾̑͋̒͐͑̾͂̎̋̃̽̂̅̇̿̍̈́́̄̍͂͑̏̐̾̎̆̉̾͂̽̈̆̔́͋͗̓̑̕͘̕͘͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝͠͠͝ͅo̶̪͆́̀͂̂́̄̅͂̿͛̈́̿͊͗́͘͝t̴̡̨̧̨̧̡̧̨̡̢̧̢̡̨̛̪͈̣̭̺̱̪̹̺̣̬̖̣̻͈̞̙͇̩̻̫͈̝̭̟͎̻̟̻̝̱͔̝̼͍̞̼̣̘̤̯͓͉̖̠̤͔̜̙͚͓̻͓̬͓̻̜̯̱̖̳̱̗̠̝̥̩͓̗̪̙͓̖̠͎̗͎̱̮̯̮͙̩̫̹̹̖͙̙͖̻͈̙̻͇͔̙̣̱͔̜̣̭̱͈͕̠̹͙̹͇̻̼͎͍̥̘͙̘̤̜͎̟͖̹̦̺̤͍̣̼̻̱̲͎̗̹͉͙̪̞̻̹͚̰̻͈͈͊̈́̽̀̎̃̊́̈́̏̃̍̉̇̑̂̇̏̀͊̑̓͛̽͋̈́͆́̊͊̍͌̈́̓͊̌̿̂̾̐͑̓̀́͒̃̋̓͆̇̀͊̆͗̂͑͐̀͗̅̆͘̕͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅḁ̶̢̡̨̧̡̡̨̨̧̨̡̡̢̧̨̡̡̛̛̛͍̱̳͚͕̩͍̺̪̻̫̙͈̬͙̖͙̬͍̬̟̣̝̲̼̜̼̺͎̥̮̝͙̪̘̙̻͖͇͚͙̣̬̖̲̲̥̯̦̗̰̙̗̪̞̗̩̻̪̤̣̜̳̩̦̻͓̞̙͍͙̫̩̹̥͚̻̦̗̰̲̙̫̬̱̺̞̟̻͓̞͚̦̘̝̤͎̤̜̜̥̗̱͈̣̻̰̮̼̙͚͚̠͚̲̤͔̰̭̙̳͍̭͎̙͚͍̟̺͎̝͓̹̰̟͈͈̖̺͙̩̯͔̙̭̟̞̟̼̮̦̜̳͕̞̼͈̜͍̮͕̜͚̝̦̞̥̜̥̗̠̦͇͖̳͈̜̮̣͚̲̟͙̎̈́́͊̔̑̽̅͐͐͆̀͐́̓̅̈͑͑̍̿̏́͆͌̋̌̃̒̽̀̋̀̃̏̌́͂̿̃̎̐͊̒̀̊̅͒̎͆̿̈́̑̐̒̀̈́̓̾͋͆̇̋͒̎̈̄̓̂͊̆͂̈́̒̎͐̇̍̆̋̅̿̔͒̄̇̂̋̈́͆̎̔̇͊̊̈́̔̏͋́̀͂̈́̊͋͂̍̾̓͛̇̔̚͘̚̕̚͘͘̕̕̕̚͘͘̚̕̚̕͜͜͜͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅç̵̧̢̨̢̢̢̧̧̡̨̡̢̧̧̧̨̡̡̨̨̢̢̢̧̨̢̨̢̛̛͉̗̠͇̹̖̝͕͚͎̟̻͓̳̰̻̺̞̣͚̤͙͍͇̗̼͖͔͕͙͖̺͙̖̹̘̘̺͓̜͍̣̰̗̖̺̗̪̘̯̘͚̲͚̲̬̞̹̹͕̭͔̳̘̝̬͉̗̪͉͕̞̫͔̭̭̜͉͔̬̫͙̖̙͚͔͙͚͍̲̘͚̪̗̞̣̞̲͎͔͖̺͍͎̝͎͍̣͍̩̟͈͕̗͉̪̯͉͎͖͍̖͎̖̯̲̘̦̟̭͍͚͓͈͙̬͖̘̱̝̜̘̹̩̝̥̜͎̬͓̬͙͍͇͚̟̫͇̬̲̥̘̞̘̟̘̝̫͈̙̻͇͎̣̪̪̠̲͓͉͙͚̭̪͇̯̠̯̠͖̞̜͓̲͎͇̼̱̦͍͉͈͕͉̗̟̖̗̱̭͚͎̘͓̬͍̱͍̖̯̜̗̹̰̲̩̪͍̞̜̫̩̠͔̻̫͍͇͕̰̰̘͚͈̠̻̮͊̐̿̏̐̀̇̑̐̈͛͑͑̍̑̔̃̈́̓̈́̇̐͑̐̊̆͂̀̏͛̊̔̍̽͗͋̊̍̓̈́̏̅͌̀̽́̑͒͒̓͗̈́̎͌͂̕̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͠͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅͅͅS̵̡̡̧̧̨̨̡̢̡̡̡̡̧̧̡̧̢̫̯͔̼̲͉͙̱̮̭̗͖̯̤͙̜͚̰̮̝͚̥̜̞̠̤̺̝͇̻̱͙̩̲̺͍̳̤̺̖̝̳̪̻̗̮̪̖̺̹̭͍͇̗̝̱̻̳̝̖̝͎̙͉̞̱̯̙̜͇̯̻̞̱̭̗͉̰̮̞͍̫̺͙͎̙̞̯̟͓͉̹̲͖͎̼̫̩̱͇̲͓̪͉̺̞̻͎̤̥̭̺̘̻̥͇̤̖̰̘̭̳̫̙̤̻͇̪̦̭̱͎̥̟͖͕̣̤̩̟̲̭̹̦̹̣͖̖͒̈́̈́̓͗̈̄͂̈́̅̐̐̿̎̂͗̎̿̕͘͜͜͜͜͝͝ͅͅt̸̡̡̧̧̨̡̢̛̥̥̭͍̗͈̩͕͔͔̞̟͍̭͇̙̺̤͚͎͈͎͕̱͈̦͍͔͓̬͚̗̰̦͓̭̰̭̎̀̂̈́̓̒̈́̈́̂̄̋́̇̂͐͒̋̋̉͐̉̏̇͋̓̈́͐̾͋̒͒͐̊̊̀̄͆̄͆̑͆̇̊̓̚̚̕̚̕͜͠͝͝ͅͅơ̵̡̨̡̡̡̨̛̺͕̼͔̼̪̳͖͓̠̘̘̳̼͚͙͙͚̰͚͚͖̥̦̥̘̖̜̰͔̠͕̦͎̞̮͚͕͍̤̠̦͍̥̝̰̖̳̫̮̪͇̤̱̜͙͔̯͙̙̼͇̹̥̜͈̲̺̝̻̮̬̼̫̞̗̣̪̱͓̺̜̠͇͚͓̳̹̥̳̠͍̫͈̟͈̘̯̬̞͔̝͍͍̥̒̐͗͒͂͆̑̀̿̏́̀͑͗̐́̀̾̓́̌̇̒̈́̌̓͐̃̈́̒̂̀̾͂̊̀̂͐̃̄̓̔̽̒̈́̇̓͌̇̂̆̒̏̊̋͊͛͌̊̇̒̅͌̄̎̔̈́͊́̽̋̈̇̈́́͊̅͂̎̃͌͊͛͂̄̽̈́̿͐̉̽̿́́̉͆̈́̒́̂̾̄̇̌̒̈̅̍̿̐͑̓͊̈́̈̋̈́̉̍̋̊̈̀̈́̾̿̌̀̈́͌̑̍́̋̒̀̂̈́́̾̏̐̅̈̑͗͐̈͂̄̾̄̈́̍̉͑͛͗͋̈́̃̄̊́́͐̀̀̽̇̓̄̓̃͋͋̂̽̔̀̎͌̈́̈́̑̓̔̀̓͐͛͆̿̋͑͛̈́͂̅̋̅͆͗̇́̀̒́̏͒̐̍͂̓͐͐̇̂̉̑̊͑̉̋̍͊̄̀͂̎͒̔͊̃̏̕̚̕̕͘͘͘̚͘̚͘̕͘̚͘̚̚̚̕͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͠͝͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅc̴̨̡̢̢̢̡̡̢̛̛̛̻͇̝̣͉͚͎͕̻̦͖̤̖͇̪̩̤̻̭̮̙̰̖̰̳̪̱̹̳̬͖̣͙̼̙̰̻̘͇͚̺̗̩̫̞̳̼̤͔͍͉̟͕̯̺͈̤̰̹̍̋́͆̾̆̊͆͋̀͑͒̄̿̄̀̂͋̊͆́͑̑̽͊̓́̔̽̌͊̄͑͒͐̑͗̿̃̀̓̅́̿͗̈́͌̋̀̏̂͌̓́̇̀͒͋̌̌̅͋͌̆͐̀̔̒͐̊̇̿̽̀̈́̃̒̋̀̈́̃̏̂̊͗̑̊̈̇̀̌͐̈́̉̂̏͊̄͐̈̽͒̏̒̓́̌̓̅́̓̃͐͊͒̄͑̒͌̍̈́̕͘̚͘̕͘̚̕͜͝͠͝͝͝ͅǩ̴̢̢̢̧̨̢̢̢̨̨̨̢̢̢̨̧̨̡̡̢̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̜̥̩̙͕̮̪̻͈̘̯̼̰̜͚̰͖̬̳͖̣̭̼͔̲͉̭̺͚̺̟͉̝̱̲͎͉̙̥̤͚͙̬̪̜̺͙͍̱̞̭̬̩̖̤̹̤̺̦͈̰̗̰͍͇̱̤̬̬͙̙̲̙̜͖͓̙̟̙̯̪͍̺̥͔͕̝̳̹̻͇̠̣͈̰̦͓͕̩͇͈͇̖͙͍̰̲̤̞͎̟̝̝͈͖͔͖̦̮̗̬̞̞̜̬̠̹̣̣̲̮̞̤̜̤̲̙͔͕̯͔͍̤͕̣͔͙̪̫̝̣̰̬̬̭̞͔̦̟̥̣̻͉͈̮̥̦̮̦͕̤͇̺͆͆̈͗̄̀̌̔̈́̈̉̾̊̐̆̂͛̀̋́̏̀̿͒̓̈́̈́͂̽̾͗͊̋̐̓̓̀̃̊̊͑̓̈̎̇͑̆̂̉̾̾̑͊̉̃́̑͌̀̌̐̅̃̿̆̎̈́̀̒́͛̓̀̊́̋͛͒͊̆̀̃̊͋̋̾̇̒̋͂̏͗͆̂̔́̐̀́͗̅̈̋̂̎̒͊̌̉̈̈́͌̈́̔̾̊̎́͐͒̋̽̽́̾̿̚̕͘͘̚̕̕̕̚̚̕̚̕͘͜͜͜͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅͅB̸̢̧̨̡̢̧̨̡̡̨̡̨̡̡̡̢̨̢̨̛̛̛̛̛̛͉̞͚̰̭̲͈͎͕͈̦͍͈̮̪̤̻̻͉̫̱͔̞̫̦̰͈̗̯̜̩̪̲̻̖̳͖̦͎͔̮̺̬̬̼̦̠̪̤͙͍͓̜̥̙̖̫̻̜͍̻̙̖̜̹͔̗̪̜̖̼̞̣̠̫͉̯̮̤͈͎̝̪͎͇͙̦̥͙̳̫̰̪̣̱̘̤̭̱͍̦͔̖͎̺̝̰̦̱̣͙̙̤͚̲͔̘̱̜̻͔̥̻͖̭͔̜͉̺͕͙͖̜͉͕̤͚̠̩̮̟͚̗͈͙̟̞̮̬̺̻̞͔̥͉͍̦̤͓̦̻̦̯̟̰̭̝̘̩̖̝͔̳͉̗̖̱̩̩̟͙͙͛̀͐̈́̂̇͛̅̒̉̏̈́̿͐́̏̃̏̓̌̽͐̈́͛̍͗͆͛̋̔̉͂̔̂̓̌͌͋̂͆̉͑̊̎́̈́̈̂͆͑́̃̍̇̿̅̾́́̿̅̾̆̅̈́̈̓͒͌͛̃͆̋͂̏̓̅̀͂̽̂̈̈́̎̾̐͋͑̅̍̈́̑̅̄͆̓̾̈́͐̎̊͐̌̌̓͊̊̔̈́̃͗̓͊͐̌͆̓͗̓̓̾̂̽͊͗́́́̽͊͆͋͊̀̑̿̔͒̏̈́́̏͆̈́͋̒͗͂̄̇̒͐̃͑̅̍͒̎̈́̌̋́̓͂̀̇͛̋͊͆̈́̋́̍̃͒̆̕̚̚̕̕̕͘̕̚̚͘̕͜͜͜͜͝͠͠͝͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅI̵̡̢̧̨̡̢̨̡̡̢̡̧̡̢̢̢̡̢̛̛͕͎͕̩̠̹̩̺̣̳̱͈̻̮̺̟̘̩̻̫͖̟͓̩̜̙͓͇̙̱̭̰̻̫̥̗̠͍͍͚̞̘̫͉̬̫̖̖̦͖͉̖̩̩̖̤̺̥̻̝͈͎̻͓̟̹͍̲͚͙̹̟̟̯͚̳̟͕̮̻̟͈͇̩̝̼̭̯͚͕̬͇̲̲̯̰̖̙̣̝͇̠̞̙͖͎̮̬̳̥̣̺̰͔̳̳̝̩̤̦̳̞̰̩̫̟͚̱̪̘͕̫̼͉̹̹̟̮̱̤̜͚̝̠̤̖̮̯̳͖̗̹̞̜̹̭̿̏͋̒͆̔̄̃̾̓͛̾̌́̅̂͆̔͌͆͋̔̾́̈̇̐̄̑̓̂̾́̄̿̓̅̆͌̉̎̏̄͛̉͆̓̎͒͘̕̕͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͝͠ͅͅƠ̷̢̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̟̰͔͔͇̲̰̮̘̭̭̖̥̟̘̠̬̺̪͇̲͋͂̅̈́̍͂̽͗̾͒̇̇̒͐̍̽͊́̑̇̑̾̉̓̈̾͒̍̌̅̒̾̈́̆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Posted November 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, dilpickle said: The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. Its only a problem if the entire software is being redistributed. If its only certain files, and you still need to buy the base game to use the mods, then whats the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, dilpickle said: The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. Im no lawyer so this is more of a question out of ignorance. But wouldn't reverse engineering laws allow them to do this as long as they could prove they didn't need to break the DRM to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, poochyena said: Its only a problem if the entire software is being redistributed. If its only certain files, and you still need to buy the base game to use the mods, then whats the issue? Doesn't matter if it's a single text file. Copyright is copyright. You know all those sites that have movie subtitles? Those are technically distributing copyright material and if the studios really wanted to be dicks they could go after them too. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 26 minutes ago, dilpickle said: The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. If the actual distributed mods do not contain any of the actual files from the game, and are a product of reverse engineering, then it’s quite likely that the law is on the modders’ side. This is why emulators such as Dolphin have escaped being targeted by another highly litigious corporation in Nintendo. My eyes see the past… My camera lens sees the present… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, SlidewaysZ said: Im no lawyer so this is more of a question out of ignorance. But wouldn't reverse engineering laws allow them to do this as long as they could prove they didn't need to break the DRM to do this? You can reverse engineer to create your own code from scratch. From what I understand this mod includes some of the original code. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, dilpickle said: You can reverse engineer to create your own code from scratch. From what I understand this mod includes some of the original code. If this is the case, then yes, defendants would have to try for another defense. Not sure what precedent there is for using code snippets under Fair Use outside Google LLC vs Oracle. Generally, you can use brief snippets of (for example) video to make an entirely new product. I have doubts that mods would quite fit the criteria of Transformative that would be protected by Fair Use. My eyes see the past… My camera lens sees the present… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 46 minutes ago, dilpickle said: Doesn't matter if it's a single text file. Copyright is copyright. You know all those sites that have movie subtitles? Those are technically distributing copyright material and if the studios really wanted to be dicks they could go after them too. I didn't ask you what copyright was, I asked you what the issue of copying, modifying, and then distributing it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 56 minutes ago, dilpickle said: Doesn't matter if it's a single text file. Copyright is copyright. You know all those sites that have movie subtitles? Those are technically distributing copyright material and if the studios really wanted to be dicks they could go after them too. "TorrentFreak reports that the modders have issued a legal response to Take-Two's suit, arguing that their work fell under 'Fair Use,' which can allow the use of copyrighted material. The defense says that if any copyright infringements did occur, they were only to allow for interoperability of software and bug fixing. Therefore, such actions represent transformative use of content, meaning it builds upon the original material rather than copying it." GTA modders hit back against Take-Two copyright lawsuit, claim work falls under Fair Use exemption You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs "We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 46 minutes ago, dilpickle said: You can reverse engineer to create your own code from scratch. From what I understand this mod includes some of the original code. In that case the modders have to jump through some incredible hoops to get their mod legal. Basically create a script/program that rips the necessary code from the game on the end user's own system, then combines it with the mod's files. It's been done before, like with the Tale of Two Wastelands mod that combines Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas into one game. In no sane world should they have to go to such lengths, but corporations basically wrote America's copyright law almost single-handedly and the odds of getting a technologically literate judge is very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, dilpickle said: The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. Yes, but theyre not givingout game code. Any mod will have a bit of the origonal code, it has to to work, it has to call or intercept certain APIs and thus not having anything would be an impossibility. I could use some help with this! Spoiler Need help updating a phone from w8.1 to w10 - Windows - Linus Tech Tips please, pm me if you would like to contribute to my gpu bios database (includes overclocking bios, stock bios, and upgrades to gpus via modding) Bios database My beautiful, but not that powerful, main PC: prior build: Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, SlidewaysZ said: Im no lawyer so this is more of a question out of ignorance. But wouldn't reverse engineering laws allow them to do this as long as they could prove they didn't need to break the DRM to do this? There's nothing stopping you from reverse engineering or even distributing those modifications but the moment you distribute anything that is or contains the original code or assets is where shit hits the fan. Minecraft for example has this stipulation when it comes to custom servers. You still have to download the vanilla server to be modified because the custom/mod servers are not allowed to distribute any original source. So for the gta mods if they relied on a method like DLL injection to hook and manipulate the game at runtime it would be perfectly legal (afaik) since they just have to distribute the DLL and an injector but not any source files. Essentially it's GTA hacks since that's the same method hackers use in games. CPU: Intel i7 - 5820k @ 4.5GHz, Cooler: Corsair H80i, Motherboard: MSI X99S Gaming 7, RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4 2666MHz CL16, GPU: ASUS GTX 980 Strix, Case: Corsair 900D, PSU: Corsair AX860i 860W, Keyboard: Logitech G19, Mouse: Corsair M95, Storage: Intel 730 Series 480GB SSD, WD 1.5TB Black Display: BenQ XL2730Z 2560x1440 144Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 31 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said: "TorrentFreak reports that the modders have issued a legal response to Take-Two's suit, arguing that their work fell under 'Fair Use,' which can allow the use of copyrighted material. The defense says that if any copyright infringements did occur, they were only to allow for interoperability of software and bug fixing. Therefore, such actions represent transformative use of content, meaning it builds upon the original material rather than copying it." GTA modders hit back against Take-Two copyright lawsuit, claim work falls under Fair Use exemption So they've just admitted guilt for copyright theft. Fair Use puts the burden of proof on the defense. They are gonna need some high priced lawyers and a sympathetic judge to get out of this. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 46 minutes ago, poochyena said: I didn't ask you what copyright was, I asked you what the issue of copying, modifying, and then distributing it was The issue is its illegal. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, dilpickle said: The issue is its illegal. so if it were legal, there would be no problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, dilpickle said: The law is on TakeTwo's side here. If I am allowed to take anyone's closed source code and modify and redistribute it then software copyright as we know it is dead. If you're not redistributing a whole modded game, then I see no problem. You're still required to purchase a full game to use the mods which puts GTA devs at no disadvantage and in fact only drives up the sales of years old games no one would touch otherwise. Modifying and changing code doesn't change that fact. Unless sole reason they don't want anyone to do that is so they can sell dumb overpriced pathetic buggy "Definitive Edition" at full price over time. And that seems to be exactly the reason here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, dilpickle said: The issue is its illegal. Probably, but that's for a Judge to rule over. As I understand it, some of those mods exist for years, so why didn't Take2 take action earlier? It's not that these mods have been restricted to certain dark corners of the web, they knew about it for a long-ish time before issuing the take-down notices. "You don't need eyes to see, you need vision" (Faithless, 'Reverence' from the 1996 Reverence album) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, dilpickle said: So they've just admitted guilt for copyright theft. Fair Use puts the burden of proof on the defense. They are gonna need some high priced lawyers and a sympathetic judge to get out of this. They didn't. They said "if", and they claim that their use falls under Fair Use - which, if it does, it wouldn't be taking anything of anyone else's without permission (which is what stealing means), as the Fair Use doctrine would've given them the permission they needed. Being sued, they're already in a position of needing to prove their case. And suing, Take-Two is also in the position of needing to prove their case. You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs "We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, Dutch_Master said: why didn't Take2 take action earlier? Bingo. The modders probably started to make money at it or it's becoming an inconvenience for take2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, dilpickle said: Yeah that's what legal means. Do you need a dictionary? no. There are plenty of things that are bad that are not illegal, and plenty of things that are good/neutral and illegal. The point here is to find the source of the problem, whether it be what the company is doing, the individuals are doing, or what the laws says. Everyone here seems to agree its the law that the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Dutch_Master said: Probably, but that's for a Judge to rule over. As I understand it, some of those mods exist for years, so why didn't Take2 take action earlier? It's not that these mods have been restricted to certain dark corners of the web, they knew about it for a long-ish time before issuing the take-down notices. Haven't they gone after mods before? I guess they have to start somewhere. Gaming Room Office PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Heliian said: it's becoming an inconvenience for take2 Exactly, because they're trying to sell their "Definitive Edition" now. It won't go down well with a Judge if they've let the mods continue to exist knowing about them but only now when they want to re-monetise their old game they take action against these mods. The modders case might actually be fairly strong here. "You don't need eyes to see, you need vision" (Faithless, 'Reverence' from the 1996 Reverence album) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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