Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1

[n0stalghia]

Linus not reading the terminal - fine, he dun goofed.

 

But why the fudge does a clean install of Pop!_OS ask you to delete pop_desktop pop_environment xorg and other core stuff with both bloody apt-get install and in their official store

 

This is mindbogglingly dumb

[Ashleyyyy]

39 minutes ago, BaidDSB said:

Ya after seeing this i decided  i dont have time to deal with Linux's bullshit.

 

Long Live windows i suppose.

linus chose a bad distro and didn't read the terminal messages. what linus experienced does not happen to 99.999999999% of users

[Ashleyyyy]

5 minutes ago, n0stalghia said:

Linus not reading the terminal - fine, he dun goofed.

 

But why the fudge does a clean install of Pop!_OS ask you to delete pop_desktop pop_environment xorg and other core stuff with both bloody apt-get install and in their official store

 

This is mindbogglingly dumb

because it's a bad distro kekw

[petor123]

No mention of fedora? super lame guys 

[Dragonwinged]

I've had my GUI crap out on a linux machine, Manjaro KDE on a windows game with Wine, I try to change the in-game resolution to get better performance, and the OS shits itself.

 

I do have a suggestion. While Linux is supposed "just work" with any hardware, that's not always the case. The Stock WD SN520 drives included in Asus Laptops will not run linux, not even a usb will work on them. And the Stock drive is also responsible for random freezing on Windows. So if anyone has a WD SN520, Swap out that PoS drive for something else. I switched to a Samsung 970 and haven't experienced a single issue with it. (The drive that is. Still have issues with a lot other things).

[kumicota]

5 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

i know how it happend, just not why. issuing an install command should never do that, i know that and i have 8-9 years of linux experience. 

Dependencies problems, apt is famous for that, where if you remove or update an software it deletes the previous dependencies that aren't used by the app that you it isn't using anymore and because steam depends on a lot of dependencies, it ended up deleting a UI dependency that popos-desktop depends on it a lot of packages on their repos has flags for that but steam passed unoticed so it ended up breaking everything.

 

If you search on debian/ubuntu foruns you can find that steam wasn't the first package that it happened.

[Avocado Diaboli]

2 hours ago, RollTime said:

The thing is that in order to review something, you need to know a lot about it. Linus does not know a lot about Linux, by his own admission. So why is he trying to present his experiences as though they're features of a product? Why is he trying to style himself as an authority?

I think you're missing the point a bit. What I'm getting out of this video is that it's a good way to show how the way Linux does stuff allows you to make the kinds of mistakes Linus made as a beginner in this video. In reality, Linus being a bit of klutz when dealing with Linux is an object lesson to any distro developer that people like Linus exist, people who have no clue about Linux, who want to dabble with it and bounce right back if they encounter some catastrophic error. It doesn't matter that the error was preventable or even that the terminal clearly outlined the consequences. How many times have you or anyone else on this forum as the designated tech support in their family or circle of friends dealt with someone who clicks away error messages without reading them? There's no point in trying to educate them for one single fundamental reason: They simply do not give a single solitary flying fuck. They just want their machine to work. I think this is a really important aspect that Linux needs to take to heart, both with how they design their distros as well as their user documentation: You need to dumb this stuff down harder, implement fail safes for beginners and actually tutorialize the OS properly if the goal is broad mass market appeal.

 

There's this YouTuber who goes by the handle Tantacrul, who occasionally makes videos about music production software and especially music notation software where he breaks down all the ways they fail to provide an adequate experience for a user, especially new users. He did a video for Steinberg's Dorico, a software that he hadn't used before and he also invited a bunch of randos to download the trial as well and sat in with them to record their first time user experience. Here's the video for those who care to give it a watch:

Feedback like this should be treated like a gift from the gods (which another notation software, MuseScore, did, and he's now a dev on that project because of it), because as a software and/or UI/UX designer, you can learn so much from it for free. But only if you bother to do so. My point is that feedback doesn't need to come from someone who is knowledgeable about the thing they're giving feedback. If someone can bounce off your software so hard the problem isn't the user, it's the software. It's easy to point fingers and say "Linus did it wrong" or "Why didn't Linus read the terminal", but that misses the broader point the central question much of this revolves around: Why should he have to? And if what he did wrong was so obvious to you, why wasn't it to him?

[Xenoprimate]

Just watched the video.

 

I imagine everyone's gonna be saying what PopOS did is stupid but to be honest this kinda stuff is exactly what I've always experienced in some way or another whenever I've tried Linux (and I've tried it many times over more than a decade).

 

Honestly, this video gave me flashbacks to all those times and frankly I don't think the experience has got any better over time.

 

Even if you ignore the big fail with PopOS both Linus and Luke had all sorts of little issues. Linux desktop is stil a mess. Say what you will about Windows but it does tend to just work for basic stuff.

IMO the only way Linux desktop will ever be adopted in to the mainstream is if a significant group (financially backed or a dedicated team of volunteers) creates a distro that ABANDONS a lot of customisability in lieu of creating a streamlined, robust offering.

 

No choice of desktop environment. You must use the given drivers. Etc. Essentially, Windows. Until decent uptake, maybe even a limited list of supported hardware, so that devs can target a small set of variables for additional stability.

 

I think that's basically what Valve tried to do with SteamOS.

 

Until then, I'll stick to Windows.

[0xReki]

Next is streaming, oh... prepare the popcorn, it's going to be a ride. Browser elements are currently a nightmare in the linux version of OBS.

Technically it's fixed, but maintainers need to reenable it.

[Shreyas1]

1 hour ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

because it's a bad distro kekw

But that's exactly the issue. Pretty much every list that linus went through to find a linux distro suggested POPos, so there's clearly a disconnect here with a new linux user picking up a bad distro.

 

On the other hand I'm a complete linux noob but I've been using POPos for a month or so, I haven't had an issue with it so far, certainly not on the level that linus had. In fact I had a really smooth time installing steam and setting up/playing games

[Arika]

Linus: *has the audacity to say that Linux isn't perfect

 

*Linux users coming to say how wrong he is and that he's stupid and everything is his fault*

 

 

 

[0xReki]

Since the bug happened in the Steam package, I'm half expecting the next video starting with Luke's system not booting into the GUI.

Also why not SteamOS? It's got the name Steam on it!

[Leslieann]

2 minutes ago, Xenoprimate said:

IMO the only way Linux desktop will ever be adopted in to the mainstream is if a significant group (financially backed or a dedicated team of volunteers) creates a distro that ABANDONS a lot of customisability in lieu of creating a streamlined, robust offering.

You need a major brand putting advertising dollars behind it and they simply won't since they can't monetize it in ways they understand.

You can have the best thing ever built by man, but without advertising dollars behind it it more than likely will die on a shelf. On the other hand people will literally buy rocks if you advertise them properly.

[0xReki]

Just now, Leslieann said:

You need a major brand putting advertising dollars behind it and they simply won't since they can't monetize it in ways they understand.

You can have the best thing ever built by man, but without advertising dollars behind it it more than likely will die on a shelf. On the other hand people will literally buy rocks if you advertise them properly.

Like SteamOS? :3

[Shreyas1]

6 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

Since the bug happened in the Steam package, I'm half expecting the next video starting with Luke's system not booting into the GUI.

Also why not SteamOS? It's got the name Steam on it!

How is doing normal tasks outside gaming on steamos?

[Giganthrax]

An OS should never implode because a user tried to install a frickin game launcher. Don't tell me this is ok because there was a line in a wall of text warning him against doing it. The guy tried to install a game launcher via the offical store, failed, tried another way, and instead of just failing, ended up borking the entire system. The very fact that this is so easy to do in a supposedly noob-friendly distro is ridiculous.

 

Also, I don't understand why people keep recommending Pop_OS. Even the Linux part of this forum is full of people who are having trouble with that crappy distro. 

[Xenoprimate]

6 minutes ago, Leslieann said:

You need a major brand putting advertising dollars behind it and they simply won't since they can't monetize it in ways they understand.

You can have the best thing ever built by man, but without advertising dollars behind it it more than likely will die on a shelf. On the other hand people will literally buy rocks if you advertise them properly.

Marketing or monetization is important, true, but that's not the only part of the puzzle. After all, I think most PC gamers will have at least heard of Linux these days; and Linus (arguably the biggest tech youtuber) talks about it a lot.

 

I think that there's a temptation in Linux circles to blame it all on "the big guys' marketing budgets" versus the relatively grassroots Linux movement's meagre exposure. Yes, that's surely part of it, but saying it's primarily due to money or marketing is just an easy way to ignore the real elephant in the room.

 

You don't have to admit there are more fundamental issues with your OS if instead you can just hyperfocus in on the David-vs-Goliath or Capitalism-vs-<Insert Theoretical Utopian System Here> angle.

 

In my opinion, even if Linux had unlimited marketing and ways of monetization, it still wouldn't penetrate the market enough to become a majority OS (on the desktop), because of its user-facing issues.

[Arika]

1 minute ago, HSF3232 said:

Well, that shouldn't have happened.

correct, but it DID happen.

[The Sloth]

1 hour ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

linus chose a bad distro 

What does that mean? POP OS is an excellent OS overall, with really good community support. But even with that, it sucks POP OS is not ready to shine for mainstream consumers( same with linux as a whole). Before anyone says anything, i know servers run linux, i was talking more about consumer use at home. 

 

I judge a OS by how normal users use it. You can't expect Joe to spend an hour reading through forums. Linux is a good OS to mess around but not ready to shine for most users, i wish devs would make more optimizations for mainstream users. 

 

[Gork]

5 hours ago, emosun said:

Linux is so opensource that it hates everyone equally 

well said

[Gork]

7 minutes ago, The Sloth said:

What does that mean? POP OS is an excellent OS overall, with really good community support. But even with that, it sucks POP OS is not ready to shine for mainstream consumers( same with linux as a whole). Before anyone says anything, i know servers run linux, i was talking more about consumer use at home. 

 

I judge a OS by how normal users use it. You can't expect Joe to spend an hour reading through forums. Linux is a good OS to mess around but not ready to shine for most users, i wish devs would make more optimizations for mainstream users. 

 

And that's been a problem for decades! lol Ubuntu used to be called Kaboomtoo because any given update would just rek an install. As a OS Linux has been around since the 90s.  A lot of just dumb things with it. Haven't gotten better since then.

[0xReki]

12 minutes ago, Arika S said:

correct, but it DID happen.

Windows Update shouldn't crash systems but it still does. Spit happens.

[Arika]

3 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

Windows Update shouldn't crash systems but it still does. Spit happens.

Correct.....and? Don't fall into the trap of "well y is just as bad, so don't criticize x!!"

 

The point of the video is "can a regular gamer switch to linux" and if something as simple as <install steam> outright deletes your desktop environment, then that's a huge set back for potentially a lot of people who are now scared.

[JDSumrall]

I gave up on GNU/Linux a long time ago but about 3-4 years ago some guys over on Hardforum encouraged me to give it a try again. I started with a couple of live discs like Ubuntu, Fedora, and Linuxmint, but then went to Archlinux because I wanted to understand the install process from the ground up.

 

I've learned a lot over the past few years, and I've also learned GNU/Linux is great until you want to do something with it. You guys are in for either an interesting, fun learning opportunity, or an absolute nightmare if you're actually planning on doing things on it.

 

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, just 'works'. And trying to fix something often leads down a rabbit hole that just ends with no solution. 

 

And as you've already seen, the error messages you get will be even less help than Windows bluescreens. 

 

I wish you guys the best but I have a feeling someone is going to cave really fast. 

[Xenoprimate]

2 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

I gave up on GNU/Linux a long time ago but about 3-4 years ago some guys over on Hardforum encouraged me to give it a try again. I started with a couple of live discs like Ubuntu, Fedora, and Linuxmint, but then went to Archlinux because I wanted to understand the install process from the ground up.

 

I've learned a lot over the past few years, and I've also learned GNU/Linux is great until you want to do something with it. You guys are in for either an interesting, fun learning opportunity, or an absolute nightmare if you're actually planning on doing things on it.

 

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, just 'works'. And trying to fix something often leads down a rabbit hole that just ends with no solution. 

 

And as you've already seen, the error messages you get will be even less help than Windows bluescreens. 

 

I wish you guys the best but I have a feeling someone is going to cave really fast. 

That's basically always been my experience too.

 

And I'm not really revelling in it, because it just means less competition for Microsoft. I want my fucking vertical taskbar back.