Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1

[Jaesop]

5 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

this just shows how little Linus payed atention to what he was doing

No, it shows a terrible bug that never should have shipped. This is 100% an issue a brand new user would run into. Is it something most people will run into? No. But do things like this happen, and is it good for folks to see it? Absolutely.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Jaesop said:

No, it shows a terrible bug that never should have shipped. This is 100% an issue a brand new user would run into. Is it something most people will run into? No. But do things like this happen, and is it good for folks to see it? Absolutely.

for all we know, this bug was something that wouldve been fixed via a sudo apt upgrade and update, as we dont know if he did that first

[Jaesop]

Just now, HelpfulTechWizard said:

for all we know, this bug was something that wouldve been fixed via a sudo apt upgrade and update, as we dont know if he did that first

It almost certainly would've, but again, it's very realistic that someone else would do the same thing he did. The fact they didn't fix it in the image file is a huge problem too.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Jaesop said:

It almost certainly would've, but again, it's very realistic that someone else would do the same thing he did. The fact they didn't fix it in the image file is a huge problem too.

it was obvious he used a guide, every how to install sanything on linux starts with a update, upgrade, then another update.

the base install iso will never come all teh way up to date, saem thing with windows, stock apps need a update, window needs an update.

[Jaesop]

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

it was obvious he used a guide, every how to install sanything on linux starts with a update, upgrade, then another update.

the base install iso will never come all teh way up to date, saem thing with windows, stock apps need a update, window needs an update.

It seems as likely he found a forum post. And it just does not matter - what happened was a real thing that other people have and will run into. It should not be present in the image.

[Blademaster91]

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

You can and should criticize anything without comparing it to anything else. "windows updates are also bad" is a terrible "defense", neither one should be having issues, and both should be critisized for it, not allowing leniency on either one because of the other. Unless next time there's a Windows update news thread where something goes wrong, that you would accept "Well linux updates also break your system" as a valid rebuttal?

Pop OS might break your system, but another distro might not, with Windows most people aren't using pro or enterprise windows that allows you to stop updates that break things.

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

User experience.

Linus used Pop OS and then Manjaro based on viewer suggestions and tier lists on the internet, how was he to know POP OS was buggy? I have POP installed on my laptop for the same reason, it's always top of the list for new user to linux suggestions, How would I know that it was buggy?

 

As for the warnings, unless you didn't watch the video, he DID read the warning, but as he's new to linux (the kind of people that he is trying to emulate in this video) he didn't understand what it means. I don't blame him, the way Linux names things is NOT intuitive, like at all. In what universe would installing Steam ever cross anyone's mind that it will delete your Desktop Environment? and it clearly wasn't a glitch in the POP shop since it did the same thing through the CLI.

 

Linus had a problem with moving to Linux, so it should be mentioned, not mentioned with the disclaimer that "oh but remember windows updates are also bad!!!!!".

I've never used Pop OS but seeing the reactions in this thread, I question why Linus didn't do any searching to find if using Pop OS is ideal for a new user. I don't see how it's ideal for a new user if something as simple as installing Steam can remove the entire desktop UI.

But for the warnings, those seem really obvious as to what they do, instead of typing in yes you should stop and see what the issue is first, I think it shouldn't happen in the first place but it also isn't difficult to read the warnings before deleting the desktop environment.

I think just going with Steam OS would've been much easier, or try another distro like Linux Mint.

And others have already mentioned it, but I think this would've been a much better video if Anthony hosted it, guiding you what to do installing Linux, following any warning messages, and telling you what to do if something does break. But LTT videos are more about entertainment, so of course its more fun to most people to watch a Linux desktop get nuked than actually tell you what to do if you want to move from windows.

[RollTime]

22 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And others have already mentioned it, but I think this would've been a much better video if Anthony hosted it, guiding you what to do installing Linux, following any warning messages, and telling you what to do if something does break. But LTT videos are more about entertainment, so of course its more fun to most people to watch a Linux desktop get nuked than actually tell you what to do if you want to move from windows.

Yeah, I strongly agree with all of this. My big problem is that I wish LTT were advertising it as such, or that Linus were treating it as such in the videos. As it is now, the very serious "this is a problem" attitude they're taking is quite frustrating and really harmful to people trying to make an informed decision.

 

Hopefully the next one is better about this,

[Guest willies leg]

if you want to run Windows games, you get a Windows PC or an XBOX.

 

But I'm happy to watch Linus with his Windows background struggle. It's actually funny.

 

I'm imagining Anthony swoop in at the end and fix Linus' mess.

 

Luke is a lot sharper, having built a cloud business he's pretty Linux savvy.

 

 

[romulasry]

Fedora has the latest updates yet just werks with a GUI even.

 

Why not try it?

 

 

[NumLock21]

Haven't watch the video yet and the last time I've used Linux was like 6-7 years ago so I have no idea how much has changed. Don't know if it still hold true now, but back then the problem with Linux isn't the OS just the OS itself. Half of the problem can be blamed on the OS and the other half is the commmunity behind it. Linux requires dependencies where trying to enable a feature or installing a program, need the user to type the "link" in terminal in order to get what they want, but when that link is broken then you'll not be able to get it anymore. The other problem is the community behind it, the amount of elitism is absurd and down right sad. Of course there are some who are nice and are willing to help out, but those are covered by the majority who think they're above everyone else just because they know how to use Linux.

I still have Linux but just the Live CD so I can use that to boot and backup any files when Windows crashes.

[WkdPaul]

7 hours ago, I-Use-Arch-BTW said:

just dont type "Yes" for every thing, I Use PacMan but if i remember right APT install it if you just click enter, It asked "do you what do delate these important PGKs" and linus said "Yes do as i say" and it did it, it nuked his desktop read before just hitting yes  

Got to love the disconnect Linux users have with the "average gaming Joe" out there.

 

Yes, people will install stuff they shouldn't, yes people WILL absolutely skip over warning messages, yes people will uninstall core packages if you give them the choice.

 

I've worked in IT for decades, and the #1 issues is people not paying attention, or not reading warnings/prompts and clicking YES/NEXT every time.

 

Should he have read the warning and ask himself why it's trying to uninstall the GUI and other essential packages ? Yes. BUT, is it something that I would expect from the "average user", TOTALLY.

[JHMW19]

This thread, the multiple reddit threads on the Linux subreddits, and the Youtube comments are sadly similar. Looks like the Linux Community is the same as ever, blaming the user for things going wrong. Hell, even Pop OS blamed Linus for his issue. 

 

2025 might be a time where I would actually go back to Console Gaming if the 2 other options are Windows 11 and dealing with the Linux Community to run games. 

 

Ughh... Please save us Valve. 

[afroraydude]

I'll be honest, as someone who has had a "interesting" relationship with Linux, going from having it as a testing/development environment to daily driver to a whole mix of different statuses and purposes, while trying everything from LFS to Ubuntu. I can't be far off from the frustrations Linus had been through with finding an OS, reminds me of my first time and just being overly confused and agitated, and OUCH the amount of times I basically bricked my installs, I get it. One, as a beginner, can easily destroy something trying to find an "easy fix" and not reading everything. Two, as an average joe (and even now), when I want something to just happen and it goes "YOU MUST BE SUDO" I am not gonna do much other than sudo bang bang. That package list was HUGE and usually a normal person will not be reading that.

 

Overall, was worried of what would be on part 1 from the podcast but I didn't feel as bad.

[Leslieann]

If your requirement for switching is for Linux to be a drop in replacement for Windows it's never going to happen.

You have to find what it does better than Windows and accept the things it doesn't, there's a lot of good in Linux but it takes a while to learn the ins and outs to really get the most from it and it's going to take more than a week or two.

 

If you really want to do it, do NOT dual boot, do not give yourself an easy way back. Install it and force yourself to adapt. Dual boot and VMs are great to get accustomed to an OS and learn the basics however once you decide to switch dual booting is the fastest way to kill any attempt to convert because you always have an easy way to solve any problem by just rebooting into Windows every time you get frustrated. You can dual boot and use a VM for years, you will not get the full experience until you cut yourself off from your crutch.

[kanyewestlover911]

1 hour ago, Leslieann said:

If your requirement for switching is for Linux to be a drop in replacement for Windows it's never going to happen.

You have to find what it does better than Windows and accept the things it doesn't, there's a lot of good in Linux but it takes a while to learn the ins and outs to really get the most from it and it's going to take more than a week or two.

 

If you really want to do it, do NOT dual boot, do not give yourself an easy way back. Install it and force yourself to adapt. Dual boot and VMs are great to get accustomed to an OS and learn the basics however once you decide to switch dual booting is the fastest way to kill any attempt to convert because you always have an easy way to solve any problem by just rebooting into Windows every time you get frustrated. You can dual boot and use a VM for years, you will not get the full experience until you cut yourself off from your crutch.

exactly, i forced myself to use GNU/Linux for 8 months before setting up a VM (i have vms but none with GPU passover so i was forced to use GNU/Linux for 99% of things and still do) and now I love GNU/Linux. I Use Arch BTW

[AldiPrayogi]

You should have someone with some but limited technical knowledge to try the first part of the challenge (someone like James, Riley, Collin, or Andy). Just to see how a regular joe (not a developer [Luke], or a technical person [Linus]) would deal with Linux.

[kanyewestlover911]

5 hours ago, JHMW19 said:

Hell, even Pop OS blamed Linus for his issue.

i can kinda understand that, BUT it was a bug Linus should had read it. It was both of them POP for the bug and Linus for not reading

 

[rjbradlow]

Ok people, if you have anything nvidia, you will have trouble running it in any *nix environment... Period.

If you have AMD you are pretty much golden. For those who don't know about this issue, google: ' Linus gives NVIDIA the bird ' (or finger)

 

The x-window system is the graphics system / GUI code that runs in the background and gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside when you can move your little mousy around to point and clicky things.

 

The biggest problem desktop Linux has is Hardware Compatibility; due to the fact that many companies are in bed together and intentionally do not share their code / drivers with the OPEN source community...but they will sure as hell take from the FOSS community, change it up and then close it for profit.

It boils down to corporate greed.

Microsoft is in bed with many companies and has been getting really tight with intel lately.

 

Some things are made exclusively for Windows, for Apple, for Linux and are intentionally not cross platform.
Linus has no sound; well GoXLR was made for Windows ONLY.

 

Ironically and with a huge serving of karma in their faces, Linux has taken over most of the world with the exception of desktops.
It's literally everywhere else and has completely kicked Microsoft out of the world's supercomputer arena.
Drive a late model vehicle? Use an ATM? Fly? Use the Stock exchange? surf the web? There's Linux inside running it all. XD

 

The second biggest problem with desktop Linux is that there are far too many cooks in the kitchen trying to make there own distributions which are ironically mostly all based on a handful of grandfather distros like Debian, RedHat, etc... and no common binaries where you just install software the same way on any system like Windows or Mac.

Package managers and Dependency Hell.

 

The third biggest problem with Linux is that most of these distributions are running Long Term Support or Stable packages which means they are Old versions of software, drivers, and the Linux Kernel itself which is why things break or just work depending on your hardware and which version of packages you get with any given distro.
Most of mainstream has completely ditched support for older Nvidia hardware.

 

The fourth biggest problem with Linux is people trying to make windows crap work on it instead of embracing and using alternatives or creating them if they do not exist.

I mean the whole point of SWITCHING to LINUX is to get the eff away from the totalitarian regime cramming forced updates, bloatware, crapware and spyware down your throat, the BSOD, the vulnerabilities, and the fact that you can completely change / customize and use your computer the way you want and should,  Right?

Oh and there's that security thing too... most of the vulnerabilities found in Linux are some crap programming and usually something to make winblows compatible with it.

Security was always a first priority in the UNIX / Linux world whereas it has always been a patched nightmare add-on for Windoze spaghetti code.

 

Alternatives: (YOU WILL ASSIMILATE)

M$ Office? .... LibreOffice:  https://www.libreoffice.org/

Photoshop? ... GIMP:   https://www.gimp.org/

There are a lot of really great projects that started in the Linux world and have later gone cross platform.
Like Blender: https://www.blender.org

and the aforementioned.

 

Titus made a good reaction vid to this Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 that covers some good points.

 

Titus Reacts to Linus Tech Tips Linux Daily Drive Challenge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQFNlTBDvto

 

 

[Gimmick21]

5 hours ago, JHMW19 said:

This thread, the multiple reddit threads on the Linux subreddits, and the Youtube comments are sadly similar. Looks like the Linux Community is the same as ever, blaming the user for things going wrong. Hell, even Pop OS blamed Linus for his issue. 

 

It's Pop_OS!' fault, that the error in the app-store appeared. But it's the user's fault if he screws the system up* while trying to repair it.

 

And tbh: That's fine. Why? Because you should be able to do that. With everything.

And if the critics are 'a package should not be able to cause this no matter what' -> I hope everyone uses the MS store and no one is downloading some installer from the interwebs

 

13 minutes ago, rjbradlow said:

Alternatives: (YOU WILL ASSIMILATE)

M$ Office? .... LibreOffice:  https://www.libreoffice.org/

Photoshop? ... GIMP:   https://www.gimp.org/

There are a lot of really great projects that started in the Linux world and have later gone cross platform.
Like Blender: https://www.blender.org

and the aforementioned.

 

Titus made a good reaction vid to this Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 that covers some good points.

 

Titus Reacts to Linus Tech Tips Linux Daily Drive Challenge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQFNlTBDvto

 

 

While I agree with most of your points, I have to admit, that most of those 'alternative softwares' are no alternative. Yes Gimp and Photoshop are image editing programs, but if you realy work with Photoshop, GIMP is no alternative. If you realy use software you get very fast stuck in the eco-system swamp. But for private use: Yes all of those programs should be used. Even under Windows -> no alternative needed

Edited November 11, 2021 by Gimmick21
Added quote

[Spindel]

8 hours ago, WkdPaul said:

*snip*

 

I've worked in IT for decades, and the #1 issues is people not paying attention, or not reading warnings/prompts and clicking YES/NEXT every time.

 

*snip*

And this behaviour is curated by years of windows prompts displaying a message that has nothing or very little to do with the actual problem. Ever since Win95 when getting a call from and helping someone over the phone to install some software/driver or make some obscure setting it has been standard to say something along the lines ”you will get a scary worded warning, it’s nothing just click OK”. Or Windows Vista that, with good intent, fautigued users with warning prompts for almost any action where you just clicked ”YES”. 
 

Of course it’ll be jarring for someone to try and use a system where the warnings suddenly have a meaning.

 

 

This is in no way a defence of Linux in the Linux vs Linus bout in this video. Just an comment on behavioural programming that has happened with Windows over the years.

[Gimmick21]

Because someone asked why PopOS did not check for updates, I installed it:

• It checkes for updates, you can see the update notification in the video
• The package is updated an works fine without updating the OS
• There is a flatpack option

 

In my view the last point is the main mistake, done by PopOS. The GUI does not explain why there are two versions of Steam and what's the difference. The user is not able to make a decision without searching the interwebs. So the best option was available, but not visible

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

Good luck with that.  Linux is trash as a desktop OS.  The only distros that even sometimes work are the ones that just emulate Windows and it doesn't take much effort to find the trash buried under a gilded layer of UI.

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, rjbradlow said:

Ok people, if you have anything nvidia, you will have trouble running it in any *nix environment... Period.

Watch the WAN show, they precisely say that the one thing they haven't had issues with is Nvidia. It works just fine these days and many distros have facilities to one-click install Nvidia drivers. 

 

1 hour ago, I-Use-Arch-BTW said:

i can kinda understand that, BUT it was a bug Linus should had read it. It was both of them POP for the bug and Linus for not reading

That makes no sense at all, how much time do you expect a newcomer to go scouring forums to find things they don't even know exist or that have no reason to even possibly think could be a problem?

[AnonymousGuy]

11 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

That makes no sense at all, how much time do you expect a newcomer to go scouring forums to find things they don't even know exist or that have no reason to even possibly think could be a problem?

Oh yeah and then every forum post is outdated because whatever neckbeard maintainer decided to yeet out whatever module was broken for another module that is still broken.  Or whatever advice you get is only applicable to every other distro but the one you have.  

 

Rinse and repeat for however long your self-loathing carries on for and then go back to a real OS that was designed to be used outside of headless servers or a VM.

[Gimmick21]

18 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

That makes no sense at all, how much time do you expect a newcomer to go scouring forums to find things they don't even know exist or that have no reason to even possibly think could be a problem?

 

Let's say a newcomer doesn't know anything by definition. How much time do you think he should invest when an error occures?

And "errors should not happen" is not a valid answer, bugs are everywhere and always will be.