Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1

[Jaesop]

Just now, JDSumrall said:

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, just 'works'.

This isn't true in any sense. Yes, things on Linux can be more difficult to troubleshoot. But plenty of things 'just work' - installing distros like Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro, etc. is as simply as installing Windows and at the end you have a functioning OS that can do plenty out of the box plus easy access to additional software.

 

If you're looking to make a gaming machine? Yeah, things could get somewhat more difficult, especially if you have an nVidia card, but it's still mostly as simple as installing Steam and using compatible games.

[0xReki]

2 minutes ago, Xenoprimate said:

I want my fucking vertical taskbar back.

Can we get a faster entry point into Safe Mode, too? Waiting for the system to crash several times, before the system offers it on its own is kinda.... slow.

[n0stalghia]

6 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

I gave up on GNU/Linux a long time ago but about 3-4 years ago some guys over on Hardforum encouraged me to give it a try again. I started with a couple of live discs like Ubuntu, Fedora, and Linuxmint, but then went to Archlinux because I wanted to understand the install process from the ground up.

 

I've learned a lot over the past few years, and I've also learned GNU/Linux is great until you want to do something with it. You guys are in for either an interesting, fun learning opportunity, or an absolute nightmare if you're actually planning on doing things on it.

 

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, just 'works'. And trying to fix something often leads down a rabbit hole that just ends with no solution. 

 

And as you've already seen, the error messages you get will be even less help than Windows bluescreens. 

 

I wish you guys the best but I have a feeling someone is going to cave really fast. 

Same. Tried to use Wine to get some software I use to run (finding an alternative is not an option since I basically wrote that software from scratch over 6-7 years and rewriting it for Linux does not feel like an option) but no dice. And dead-simple tasks that even iOS can do with two clicks like mapping a network drive took me 2-3 hours on Arch because the first three methods suggested there weren't working on my system for some weird reason.

Obviously when it works Linux is better because it's cleaner and neater, but it very rarely works. Mostly it just manages to run without crashing, barely, somehow. After you invest a ton of time into it.

 

I've resorted to Windows + WSL now, Microsoft killed the necessity to run Linux nowadays since all non-performance-heavy tasks can run in Windows almost natively anyway

[Gork]

4 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

This isn't true in any sense. Yes, things on Linux can be more difficult to troubleshoot. But plenty of things 'just work' - installing distros like Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro, etc. is as simply as installing Windows and at the end you have a functioning OS that can do plenty out of the box plus easy access to additional software.

 

If you're looking to make a gaming machine? Yeah, things could get somewhat more difficult, especially if you have an nVidia card, but it's still mostly as simple as installing Steam and using compatible games.

Yeah. As shown on screen? Linus likes to do things the hard AF way. How many average users have a full on personal cloud in their house?

[0xReki]

9 minutes ago, Arika S said:

The point of the video is "can a regular gamer switch to linux" and if something as simple as <install steam> outright deletes your desktop environment, then that's a huge set back for potentially a lot of people who are now scared.

Same with updating Windows... You know what, I take it back. You're right, people don't wanna do things that can make stuff blow up. Just like updates that blow up your system. On any OS.

[n0stalghia]

3 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

Can we get a faster entry point into Safe Mode, too? Waiting for the system to crash several times, before the system offers it on its own is kinda.... slow.

Can't you hold Shift while clicking restart or something to force windows to offer than on the next reboot?

[0xReki]

Just now, n0stalghia said:

Can't you hold Shift while clicking restart or something to force windows to offer than on the next reboot?

Well, if your system boots, yes, there some option for that. But if it doesn't, you're stuck waiting for the boot loop to resolve.

[Xenoprimate]

2 minutes ago, n0stalghia said:

Can't you hold Shift while clicking restart or something to force windows to offer than on the next reboot?

I thought shift+restart just meant "do a real restart, not a quick reboot where you hold on to some state".

 

Could be wrong though!

[Gork]

1 minute ago, n0stalghia said:

Same. Tried to use Wine to get some software I use to run (finding an alternative is not an option since I basically wrote that software from scratch over 6-7 years and rewriting it for Linux does not feel like an option) but no dice. And dead-simple tasks that even iOS can do with two clicks like mapping a network drive took me 2-3 hours on Arch because the first three methods suggested there weren't working on my system for some weird reason.

Obviously when it works Linux is better because it's cleaner and neater, but it very rarely works. Mostly it just manages to run without crashing, barely, somehow. After you invest a ton of time into it.

 

I've resorted to Windows + WSL now, Microsoft killed the necessity to run Linux nowadays since all non-performance-heavy tasks can run in Windows almost natively anyway

OMFG! Wine is a fucking train wreck! I love people that go : well I can just run a game with proton! Ok then what about something that's only from the epic shop? or GOG?

[0xReki]

7 minutes ago, Gork said:

OMFG! Wine is a fucking train wreck! I love people that go : well I can just run a game with proton! Ok then what about something that's only from the epic shop? or GOG?

Proton is just wine with more patches and saner defaults. There's this some way to force it. https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/8/1679189548052683985/

[JDSumrall]

8 minutes ago, Gork said:

OMFG! Wine is a fucking train wreck! I love people that go : well I can just run a game with proton! Ok then what about something that's only from the epic shop? or GOG?

Yeah, people who say stuff like "just do it this way" just make me scratch my head. If I could get something to work, don't you think I would have? I've tried to get things running under Wine, Lutris, Proton, Steam; you name it. All of my experiences have been total fails.

 

I remember trying to get the FFXIV launcher to work. I followed a trail of fixes for hours only to end up on github staring at an application that had a dependency to a file that was currently unavailable due to it's certificate expiring and not being renewed because some third party changed how certificates are handled. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. 

[JDSumrall]

5 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

Proton is just wine with more patches and saner defaults. There's this some way to force it. https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/8/1679189548052683985/

And this is one of GNU/Linux's biggest issues. People can't work together to fix one thing, so they fork it and attempt to fix it on their own. Then you end up with two things that don't work right so then it gets forked again.

 

There's so many forks at this point it looks like a bowl of wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

[0xReki]

1 minute ago, JDSumrall said:

And this is one of GNU/Linux's biggest issues. People can't work together to fix one thing, so they fork it and attempt to fix it on their own. Then you end up with two things that don't work right so then it gets forked again.

 

There's so many forks at this point it looks like a bowl of wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

I think in many cases, that's more a GNU issue than Linux. That's all I'm going to say, since this discussion shouldn't be in here.

But I believe most of proton's patches are going back to wine. Most of them.

[JDSumrall]

28 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

This isn't true in any sense. Yes, things on Linux can be more difficult to troubleshoot. But plenty of things 'just work' - installing distros like Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro, etc. is as simply as installing Windows and at the end you have a functioning OS that can do plenty out of the box plus easy access to additional software.

 

If you're looking to make a gaming machine? Yeah, things could get somewhat more difficult, especially if you have an nVidia card, but it's still mostly as simple as installing Steam and using compatible games.

While I'm happy for you if that's the case, I can guarantee you that has not been my experience. 

 

You just saw Linus try to install Steam. How well did that go?

 

I feel I have a pretty standard machine, and I can tell you not one of the distros you listed has ever 'just worked'. They have all failed to install for one reason or another. 

 

And if your meaning for can do plenty out of the box means loading a web browser, surfing the web, playing some media content, checking email, then again, you've been fortunate because there have been plenty of times the network service failed to load, the sound failed to output to the correct device, media content wouldn't play and just a black box shows up.

[Xenoprimate]

8 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

And this is one of GNU/Linux's biggest issues. People can't work together to fix one thing, so they fork it and attempt to fix it on their own. Then you end up with two things that don't work right so then it gets forked again.

 

There's so many forks at this point it looks like a bowl of wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

10,000 forks, and all you need is a collab.

 

That's what Alanis Morisette was talking about, I think.

[0xReki]

11 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

I remember trying to get the FFXIV launcher to work. I followed a trail of fixes for hours only to end up on github staring at an application that had a dependency to a file that was currently unavailable due to it's certificate expiring and not being renewed because some third party changed how certificates are handled. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. 

Was that the 3rd party launcher? I tried that, too. That was a trainwreck. Currently, I can run FFXIV with the GE (GloriousEggshell) fork for proton.
 

[JDSumrall]

2 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

I think in many cases, that's more a GNU issue than Linux. That's all I'm going to say, since this discussion shouldn't be in here.

But I believe most of proton's patches are going back to wine. Most of them.

From GNU.org

 

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

 

Linux is just the kernel. 

[JDSumrall]

1 minute ago, 0xReki said:

Was that the 3rd party launcher? I tried that, too. That was a trainwreck. Currently, I can run FFXIV with the GE (GloriousEggshell) fork for proton.
 

No, it's the stock launcher. I was trying to get ProtonGE to work since everything else had failed. Because I was using Arch, there were missing dependencies that, while they may be included with other distros by default, needed to be installed on Arch. 

[0xReki]

1 minute ago, JDSumrall said:

From GNU.org

 

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

 

Linux is just the kernel. 

That's what the GNU people want you to believe! They poison everything with their goddamn GPL.

[Jaesop]

6 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

While I'm happy for you if that's the case, I can guarantee you that has not been my experience. 

I'm not speaking to just my experience, though. I can't comment on yours since you didn't note the concerns you faced?

 

6 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

You just saw Linus try to install Steam. How well did that go?

I didn't yet, and I also haven't used PopOS. But I also know that installing Steam on Fedora and Ubuntu is a couple clicks and zero command line.

 

Quote

I feel I have a pretty standard machine, and I can tell you not one of the distros you listed has ever 'just worked'. They have all failed to install for one reason or another. 

Again, tough to really respond here without any details - no idea what the machine is, when you tried, what the issue is. I believe you that it didn't work but I can't meaningfully respond with just that information.

 

8 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

And if your meaning for can do plenty out of the box means loading a web browser, surfing the web, playing some media content, checking email, then again, you've been fortunate because there have been plenty of times the network service failed to load, the sound failed to output to the correct device, media content wouldn't play and just a black box shows up.

It seems like you're been unfortunate, actually. It seems like you definitely don't have a simple setup which can lead to more complications (I have dual displays at different resolutions and refresh rates, which is why I put off using Linux as any sort of daily driver until nVidia's Wayland support got acceptable).

[0xReki]

2 minutes ago, JDSumrall said:

No, it's the stock launcher. I was trying to get ProtonGE to work since everything else had failed. Because I was using Arch, there were missing dependencies that, while they may be included with other distros by default, needed to be installed on Arch. 

There were dependencies? I just downloaded the archive. :3

[JDSumrall]

3 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

That's what the GNU people want you to believe! They poison everything with their goddamn GPL.

There are people involved. There's going to be good and bad involved no matter what.

[JDSumrall]

7 minutes ago, 0xReki said:

There were dependencies? I just downloaded the archive. :3

Yes. When I went to install it on Arch it would fail stating a dependency was missing. Like I said, Arch doesn't include a lot of things other distros do by default. I had a huge issue installing GShade for FFXIV on Arch because the people that wrote GShade assumed Wget came with every distro. Apparently it does come with many distros, just not Arch. When I installed Wget, GShade installed fine. 

[0xReki]

1 minute ago, JDSumrall said:

Yes. When I went to install it on Arch it would fail stating a dependency was missing. Like I said, Arch doesn't include a lot of things other distros do by default. I had a huge issue installing GShade for FFXIV on Arch because the people that wrote GShade assumed Wget came with every distro. Apparently it does come with many distros, just not Arch. When I installed Wget, GShade installed fine. 

I see. I didn't install it, I just downloaded the archive into the right place, that saves a lot on the wine dependency hell. (I also run arch.)

[AlTech]

5 hours ago, GodAtum said:

Linux is NOT suitable for 90% of gamers.

 

I tried Pop OS this year but there was no Linux software for:

• Corsair iCUE

There's an open source project for Linux that acts as a replacement for iCUE. Can't remember the exact name of the project but a search in a search engine should show it as a result.

5 hours ago, GodAtum said:

• Microsoft Office

OnlyOffice and LibreOffice exists. LibreOffice is installed by default but Onlyoffice is a better MS office replacement imho.

5 hours ago, GodAtum said:

• Some Steam games are buggy, especially with mods.

This is also equally true on WIndows and is not just a Linux problem.

5 hours ago, GodAtum said:

• Vmix

Never heard of this program but I imagine there are Linux alternatives.