In the US, life cycle emissions for EVs are 60-68% lower than gasoline.

[mr moose]

20 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

And Shrimpy is correct with this at least, the terminology used matters alot.

 

And his terminology was, as quoted,  "you don't need to check anything" on an EV for 2 years.  He then turned that into a semantic debate about what the word maintenance means, then tried to sidestep his absolute claims and focus only on the motor/engine itself. 

 

The thread in general has already established that it doesn't really matter what the word technically means, what matters is if the message is accurate.  And it would appear the general consensus is that telling people you don't have to "check anything" on an EV is erroneous marketing material at best and outright dangerous rhetoric at worst. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

19 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

So you quote the most expensive electricity vs the cheaper end of fuel

i quote the average price in gharging columns at gas stations or parking lots equipped with it vs the average LPG price which depending on what gas pump you go to floats between 0.59 and 0.62 cents.

19 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

How often do you take a drive of 800km

close to my weekly total, always do my refill on sunday with around 700 km  reached

19 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

Most people charge at home at a cost of 13`-17€ . Then the servicing costs are a lot lower for an EV.

too much of an incovenience compared to refilling once every weekend

200 thousand km in, only maintenance done on my petrol car in the last 6 years have been: tire replacement, battery replacement, cosmetic, and oil or other fluids. Nothing that screams the end of the world as try to make it sound. And i have yet to see it fail a revision test

19 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

 

UPS have ordered enough vans to replace their fleet here. Why? Because it saves them money

10 bucks says only to take advantage of some governemnt incetive of some form

19 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

However, we need to change or we are screwed. Petrol, Diesel and Gas prices are predicted to rise very sharply in the coming years, especially the latter.

the only way their prices will rise is because of government adding extra taxes and bs-ing to the unit cost of fossil fuels, not because of lack in demand.

they did it with diesel when petrol became the boogey man, with methane and lpg when diesel blew up in their face, and now with EV.

I'd look more forward to Porsche attempt at synthetic fuels than i'll ever look at EV.

 

In the end already got my quote for the Dacia Stepway LPG model, decked up with every optional that i could squeeze in, 15.500€ total. At that price i cant even pick the smallest of EV city cars. Now it's just a matter of waiting a couple of months for it to come home.

[Senzelian]

5 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

the interviews online with the various bosses of the power systems.

To believe their bs is your first mistake.

V2G is a terrible solution.

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

1: And his terminology was, as quoted,  "you don't need to check anything" on an EV for 2 years.  He then turned that into a semantic debate about what the word maintenance means, then tried to sidestep his absolute claims and focus only on the motor/engine itself. 

 

2: The thread in general has already established that it doesn't really matter what the word technically means, what matters is if the message is accurate. 

3: And it would appear the general consensus is that telling people you don't have to "check anything" on an EV is erroneous marketing material at best and outright dangerous rhetoric at worst. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1: The reference you quoted, while it may be true to what you are going after here is not within the context of what I was getting at by my use of it.
You're speaking to what he's said in general, I was using the analagy he gave as a singular example to make a different point, one I was making myself.

 

2: The meaning DOES matter technically because the terms used to describe can affect what's understood by whoever hears it when referencing to a problem in the technical sense, which all this does and that goes right to your point of accuracy.

Is it a weird noise, screeching sound, a "Clunk-Clunk" or is it like it makes a clunking sound when it's in reverse or whenever they use the clutch?
Maybe a whistling sound..... Maybe?

 

Ask a customer and they'll probrably tell you it's a "Noise" and not much else because they don't have the knowledge to state it in any other way, but some do at least give a few details which does help.

3: Well... I woudn't call it "Marketing" but I get your point and have to agree, everything is subject to fail at some point in some way so it's a good idea to check it no matter what it is. As I had described about an EV motor there really isn't much to check but inspections and tests can be done to detect a probrable issue that hasn't made itself known yet.

Things such as:
Checking for any physical damage such as cracks in the motor housing/case or cooling fins broken off, perhaps impact damage to the motor housing/case itself like a chunk of it missing exposing the inner components as an example. 

Check to see if the motor housing bolts themselves are still tight (Holding the motor itself together) and that the motor assembly itself is still torqued in place properly. Checking any exposed connections to be sure all is tight and in good condition.

If it has a brake set on the motor, all that needs to be checked as well for any possible damage, wear issues, for proper operation and to be sure it's still tightly secured to the motor itself.

Test the electricals of the drivemotor itself to see if any potential problems could be such as excessive electrical resistance through one side (Leg) of it or the motor in general indicating bad/damaged windings in the motor.

Check the motor for smooth rotation, if any binding is felt or noise is heard that could be a shaft bearing going bad. Also be sure the motor shaft is still straight, not warped or deformed in any way with any other attachments to it being in place, torqued properly and so on. 

Note I didn't mention about the brushes since EV's has brushless motors, I'm not aware of any currently made EV's that have drive motors with brushes in them.

Yes, I've PM'ed and repaired a few "Things" in my day.



 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

1: The reference you quoted, while it may be true to what you are going after here is not within the context of what I was getting at by my use of it.
You're speaking to what he's said in general, I was using the analagy he gave as a singular example to make a different point, one I was making myself.

 

2: The meaning DOES matter technically because the terms used to describe can affect what's understood by whoever hears it when referencing to a problem in the technical sense, which all this does and that goes right to your point of accuracy.

Is it a weird noise, screeching sound, a "Clunk-Clunk" or is it like it makes a clunking sound when it's in reverse or whenever they use the clutch?
Maybe a whistling sound..... Maybe?

 

Ask a customer and they'll probrably tell you it's a "Noise" and not much else because they don't have the knowledge to state it in any other way, but some do at least give a few details which does help.

3: Well... I woudn't call it "Marketing" but I get your point and have to agree, everything is subject to fail at some point in some way so it's a good idea to check it no matter what it is. As I had described about an EV motor there really isn't much to check but inspections and tests can be done to detect a probrable issue that hasn't made itself known yet.

Things such as:
Checking for any physical damage such as cracks in the motor housing/case or cooling fins broken off, perhaps impact damage to the motor housing/case itself like a chunk of it missing exposing the inner components as an example. 

Check to see if the motor housing bolts themselves are still tight (Holding the motor itself together) and that the motor assembly itself is still torqued in place properly. Checking any exposed connections to be sure all is tight and in good condition.

If it has a brake set on the motor, all that needs to be checked as well for any possible damage, wear issues, for proper operation and to be sure it's still tightly secured to the motor itself.

Test the electricals of the drivemotor itself to see if any potential problems could be such as excessive electrical resistance through one side (Leg) of it or the motor in general indicating bad/damaged windings in the motor.

Check the motor for smooth rotation, if any binding is felt or noise is heard that could be a shaft bearing going bad. Also be sure the motor shaft is still straight, not warped or deformed in any way with any other attachments to it being in place, torqued properly and so on. 

Note I didn't mention about the brushes since EV's has brushless motors, I'm not aware of any currently made EV's that have drive motors with brushes in them.

Yes, I've PM'ed and repaired a few "Things" in my day.



 

I appreciate your comments because they make sense.

 

Is it imperative people pick certain words for simple word play. Twisting the meanings for their own amusement??

 

Perhaps they take serious only when it pertains to them being correct about something.... they have no clue about??

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

And his terminology was, as quoted,  "you don't need to check anything" on an EV for 2 years.  He then turned that into a semantic debate about what the word maintenance means, then tried to sidestep his absolute claims and focus only on the motor/engine itself. 

 

The thread in general has already established that it doesn't really matter what the word technically means, what matters is if the message is accurate.  And it would appear the general consensus is that telling people you don't have to "check anything" on an EV is erroneous marketing material at best and outright dangerous rhetoric at worst. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's because I have to explain off the wall claims like replacing parts that are non serviceable and people like you calling that maintenance. 

 

Electric motors do not need maintenance.

Tesla sells their cars as maintenance free.

Neither of these thing should I have to prove, you can read it for yourself.

 

And no, major repairs are not called major maintenance in the automotive and diesel industry. 

 

But hey, if you need to rebuild a motor and consider that major maintenance, well good for you. But you're wrong.

 

I mean you have the choice to clean the carpet of the car. It's dirty. You maintained it. 

Sure I get that part. But if you replaced the carpet, that's not maintenance, it's a repair. Simple as that.

 

I had my differential replaced.... from lack of maintenance.

 

The lack of maintenance caused a repair to be needed.

 

So we can pick out all the parts of the vehicle and I can tell you which parts you can maintain and which you do not maintain. 

[12345678]

a little too late isn't it?

 

fossil fuels will not be replaced any time soon globally

nuclear fission and renovable are pushed out because they are "too risky" or "they are ugly"

plastic is the same, and it's not that recyclable

 

and greed doesn't help

 

[Distinctly Average]

12 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

i quote the average price in gharging columns at gas stations or parking lots equipped with it vs the average LPG price which depending on what gas pump you go to floats between 0.59 and 0.62 cents.

close to my weekly total, always do my refill on sunday with around 700 km  reached

too much of an incovenience compared to refilling once every weekend

200 thousand km in, only maintenance done on my petrol car in the last 6 years have been: tire replacement, battery replacement, cosmetic, and oil or other fluids. Nothing that screams the end of the world as try to make it sound. And i have yet to see it fail a revision test

10 bucks says only to take advantage of some governemnt incetive of some form

the only way their prices will rise is because of government adding extra taxes and bs-ing to the unit cost of fossil fuels, not because of lack in demand.

they did it with diesel when petrol became the boogey man, with methane and lpg when diesel blew up in their face, and now with EV.

I'd look more forward to Porsche attempt at synthetic fuels than i'll ever look at EV.

 

In the end already got my quote for the Dacia Stepway LPG model, decked up with every optional that i could squeeze in, 15.500€ total. At that price i cant even pick the smallest of EV city cars. Now it's just a matter of waiting a couple of months for it to come home.

How is it inconvenient? It takes seconds when you get home, probably only twice a week, to plug in at home. How is that hard? It takes far less time than driving to a garage. Less time than filling up. You pull up, plug in and get on with whatever you do at home. You can even set the car to be nice and warm with and de-misting or de-icing from the comfort of your bed. How is that a inconvenient? 
 

I know some people, like you will never change there mind even if it was half the price and shown to be much better. Some people just love the sound and feel of a combustion car. I do get that. For me all a car is, is transport. It is a means of getting me

to where I need to be. I have no feelings about cars. So maybe that is why I see things differently.

[Distinctly Average]

11 hours ago, Senzelian said:

To believe their bs is your first mistake.

V2G is a terrible solution.

Nice, well reasoned argument. The BS is that the grid cannot cope with EVs. Lots of BS spread by fossil fuel Industry as well as some automotive companies.

[Quackers101]

3 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

How is it inconvenient? It takes seconds when you get home, probably only twice a week, to plug in at home. How is that hard? It takes far less time than driving to a garage. Less time than filling up. You pull up, plug in and get on with whatever you do at home. You can even set the car to be nice and warm with and de-misting or de-icing from the comfort of your bed. How is that a inconvenient?

more digitalization in cars is nice, the charge time for EV is not, nor is using charging stations with its vast amount of problems and privacy concerns.

Although being able to charge a vehicle at home can be very good, so long there is no faults or fire hazards as with a few parking areas that has caught fire, and to electric scooters/bikes.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Quackers101

[Distinctly Average]

2 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

more digital cars is nice, the charge time for EV is not, nor is using charging stations with its vast amount of problems and privacy concerns.

Although being able to charge a vehicle at home can be very good, so long there is no faults or fire hazards as with a few parking areas that has caught fire, and to electric scooters/bikes.

 

Scare mothering are we?

 

Did you know that In the US, 1 in 8 call outs for fire are cars catching fire. Now that is a figure that has remained steady for the last 40 years, well before EVs were a thing.

 

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf

 

It is easy to pick the odd incident, but you need to place it in context. You cannot simply pick the odd event without all the facts. In the case of Louis, that is a hand built bike with what is almost certainly a very iffy sourced battery. Does Louis still ride ebikes, yes! Does he now use an Electruc Car? Yes! Has that put him off, we only from buying crap batteries from one brand. The plain truth is that fossil fuel cars catch fire in huge numbers every day, and there are many statistics to prove it.

 

[Quackers101]

33 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Scare mothering are we?

Did you know that In the US, 1 in 8 call outs for fire are cars catching fire. Now that is a figure that has remained steady for the last 40 years, well before EVs were a thing.

 

It is easy to pick the odd incident, but you need to place it in context. You cannot simply pick the odd event without all the facts. In the case of Louis, that is a hand built bike with what is almost certainly a very iffy sourced battery.

did not talk about the US, just saying there have been some big cases involving these batteries, not about scare mothering only stating that certain places had quite a few incidents of some big fires to buildings (not sure if there is any forrest fires that could happen too). Although still unsure to what degree and like with his, an "iffy battery". Also we are in no way the in the stage to see the scale and rather early for some EV tech and still changing, although you did have the Tesla incident of poor design causing the battery to become damaged and causing them to ignite. (which was later fixed).

 

As stated before, this is not to "be afraid of the EV" and didn't state so either, just to be aware that when it first ignites it can cause a lot of problems. Sure that its the same for cars in general, its just not the same fire as in to be put out and control over, and like scooters are put inside the house or charged over night in highly packed living areas. And if by accident in manufacturing etc, that could cause a wide spread fire issue or with the cars themselves if a "bug" is found in the safety net or by materials used, or if a mechanic or in poor region is swapping the battery with something of a worse standard and if by chance it's more likely to cause a fire or get hot enough to cause a fire.

[suicidalfranco]

9 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

How is it inconvenient? It takes seconds when you get home, probably only twice a week, to plug in at home. How is that hard?

Not every house has a parking lot right under it ro next to it. Or are you going to tell me that coiling up and down a 50 to 100 meter cable to the side of the road is also easy?

9 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

You can even set the car to be nice and warm with and de-misting or de-icing from the comfort of your bed

Not a feature exclusive to EVs

 

A car is indeed just a mean of transportation, and if I was in it for the sound of the engine I definitely would have not picked a LPG car. Would love for petrol to go back at 1€ per liter, wouldn't consider any other car in that case.
But the times are what they are and LPG is what will save me the most money wise in the long run.

 

My hope is that 10 years from now when I'll feel like I'm done with the stepway synfuel will hit the market, and that will be what my next car will run on.

[mr moose]

21 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

1: The reference you quoted, while it may be true to what you are going after here is not within the context of what I was getting at by my use of it.
You're speaking to what he's said in general, I was using the analagy he gave as a singular example to make a different point, one I was making myself.

 

2: The meaning DOES matter technically because the terms used to describe can affect what's understood by whoever hears it when referencing to a problem in the technical sense, which all this does and that goes right to your point of accuracy.

Is it a weird noise, screeching sound, a "Clunk-Clunk" or is it like it makes a clunking sound when it's in reverse or whenever they use the clutch?
Maybe a whistling sound..... Maybe?

 

Ask a customer and they'll probrably tell you it's a "Noise" and not much else because they don't have the knowledge to state it in any other way, but some do at least give a few details which does help.

3: Well... I woudn't call it "Marketing" but I get your point and have to agree, everything is subject to fail at some point in some way so it's a good idea to check it no matter what it is. As I had described about an EV motor there really isn't much to check but inspections and tests can be done to detect a probrable issue that hasn't made itself known yet.

Things such as:
Checking for any physical damage such as cracks in the motor housing/case or cooling fins broken off, perhaps impact damage to the motor housing/case itself like a chunk of it missing exposing the inner components as an example. 

Check to see if the motor housing bolts themselves are still tight (Holding the motor itself together) and that the motor assembly itself is still torqued in place properly. Checking any exposed connections to be sure all is tight and in good condition.

If it has a brake set on the motor, all that needs to be checked as well for any possible damage, wear issues, for proper operation and to be sure it's still tightly secured to the motor itself.

Test the electricals of the drivemotor itself to see if any potential problems could be such as excessive electrical resistance through one side (Leg) of it or the motor in general indicating bad/damaged windings in the motor.

Check the motor for smooth rotation, if any binding is felt or noise is heard that could be a shaft bearing going bad. Also be sure the motor shaft is still straight, not warped or deformed in any way with any other attachments to it being in place, torqued properly and so on. 

Note I didn't mention about the brushes since EV's has brushless motors, I'm not aware of any currently made EV's that have drive motors with brushes in them.

Yes, I've PM'ed and repaired a few "Things" in my day.



 

 

21 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I appreciate your comments because they make sense.

 

Is it imperative people pick certain words for simple word play. Twisting the meanings for their own amusement??

 

Perhaps they take serious only when it pertains to them being correct about something.... they have no clue about??

That's because I have to explain off the wall claims like replacing parts that are non serviceable and people like you calling that maintenance. 

 

Electric motors do not need maintenance.

Tesla sells their cars as maintenance free.

Neither of these thing should I have to prove, you can read it for yourself.

 

And no, major repairs are not called major maintenance in the automotive and diesel industry. 

 

But hey, if you need to rebuild a motor and consider that major maintenance, well good for you. But you're wrong.

 

I mean you have the choice to clean the carpet of the car. It's dirty. You maintained it. 

Sure I get that part. But if you replaced the carpet, that's not maintenance, it's a repair. Simple as that.

 

I had my differential replaced.... from lack of maintenance.

 

The lack of maintenance caused a repair to be needed.

 

So we can pick out all the parts of the vehicle and I can tell you which parts you can maintain and which you do not maintain. 

Spin it any way you guys like, claiming nothing has to be checked does not require an elaborate definition for maintenance in order to be plainly inaccurate.

 

 

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 

Spin it any way you guys like, claiming nothing has to be checked does not require an elaborate definition for maintenance in order to be plainly inaccurate.

 

Show ME where I said in that post where I said there is no maintenance or checks that needs to be done.

I even gave a "Checklist " of things to check with an EV motor:

23 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Things such as:
Checking for any physical damage such as cracks in the motor housing/case or cooling fins broken off, perhaps impact damage to the motor housing/case itself like a chunk of it missing exposing the inner components as an example. 

Check to see if the motor housing bolts themselves are still tight (Holding the motor itself together) and that the motor assembly itself is still torqued in place properly. Checking any exposed connections to be sure all is tight and in good condition.

If it has a brake set on the motor, all that needs to be checked as well for any possible damage, wear issues, for proper operation and to be sure it's still tightly secured to the motor itself.

Test the electricals of the drivemotor itself to see if any potential problems could be such as excessive electrical resistance through one side (Leg) of it or the motor in general indicating bad/damaged windings in the motor.

Check the motor for smooth rotation, if any binding is felt or noise is heard that could be a shaft bearing going bad. Also be sure the motor shaft is still straight, not warped or deformed in any way with any other attachments to it being in place, torqued properly and so on. 

Note I didn't mention about the brushes since EV's has brushless motors, I'm not aware of any currently made EV's that have drive motors with brushes in them.

I even agreed with you about some of your side of it:

23 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

3: Well... I woudn't call it "Marketing" but I get your point and have to agree, everything is subject to fail at some point in some way so it's a good idea to check it no matter what it is. As I had described about an EV motor there really isn't much to check but inspections and tests can be done to detect a probrable issue that hasn't made itself known yet.

If you have an arguement with Shrimpy, that's fine and between the two of you  - Don't go dragging me into it by insinuating I too had said such with the use of the term "You Guys".
There is no "You Guys" on my part over it. 
I may agree with him on many parts too and that's my right to do as it is yours to disagree.

BTW I'm not expecting everyone to 100% agree with me on everything all the time - That's just foolish to expect and we all have our points of view... Which is OK.
Just know I'm not trying to bullshit anyone here.

[mr moose]

16 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Show ME where I said in that post where I said there is no maintenance or checks that needs to be done.

I even gave a "Checklist " of things to check with an EV motor:

If you have an arguement with Shrimpy, that's fine and between the two of you  - Don't go dragging me into it by insinuating I too had said such with the use of the term "You Guys".
There is no "You Guys" on my part over it. 

I never accused you of saying anything, I simply pointed out that shrimp had made those claims (about not having to check anything) and that is why the debate around the semantics of maintenance are moot. 

 

The thread in general has already concluded that A. you do need to check stuff and B, it doesn't matter if you call it maintenance or not you still need to check those things.  

 

EDIT: ergo, arguing that specific things come under the heading of "maintenance" and some things don't,  does not change his argument and does not make him right about it.

 

 

[Beerzerker]

I take it you at least understand what got me going, namely the term "You Guys" because that did lump me into being as part of that side of the arguement between the two of you.

For my part I'll take the above as an apology about it.
It's all good - I'm cool - That's the end of it.
 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

I take it you at least understand what got me going, namely the term "You Guys" because that did lump me into being as part of that side of the arguement between the two of you.

For my part I'll take the above as an apology about it.
It's all good - I'm cool - That's the end of it.
 

I'm in no argument. He's making shit up. 

 

I've laid out links with details backing my claims, he has none.

 

Quote

Unlike gasoline cars, Tesla cars require no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks. As electric cars, even brake pad replacements are RARE because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on brakes.

https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance

[Distinctly Average]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Not every house has a parking lot right under it ro next to it. Or are you going to tell me that coiling up and down a 50 to 100 meter cable to the side of the road is also easy?

Not a feature exclusive to EVs

 

A car is indeed just a mean of transportation, and if I was in it for the sound of the engine I definitely would have not picked a LPG car. Would love for petrol to go back at 1€ per liter, wouldn't consider any other car in that case.
But the times are what they are and LPG is what will save me the most money wise in the long run.

 

My hope is that 10 years from now when I'll feel like I'm done with the stepway synfuel will hit the market, and that will be what my next car will run on.

I am not suggesting there are not hurdles to overcome. The same was said when people moved from horses to cars but inside 10 years cars almost entirely took over.

 

In 10 years from now, I doubt there will be new cars still burning stuff in many countries. We will probably see the end in China first with large countries like Australia and USA last. Here I am talking countries that manufacture cars. VW have thrown billions at the problem for instance. With that kind of investment it will be hard to change direction. Toyota seem to have gone from the forefront of change to the most resistive of companies. The Korean brands seem to be taking big leaps into full EV migration. Add in the many startups, and the huge number of cars arriving from China and the torrent will be hard to stop. Here in the UK, 14% of all new cars were EV and that is expected to exceed 20% next year.  It will be interesting to see how theEU plans to end the sale of combustion vehicles by 2035 pans out. France seem to be the biggest opponent to that. Here in the UK, 2030 is the date planned and that includes hybrids. That will probably slip depending on political changes.

[mr moose]

22 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

I take it you at least understand what got me going, namely the term "You Guys" because that did lump me into being as part of that side of the arguement between the two of you.

For my part I'll take the above as an apology about it.
It's all good - I'm cool - That's the end of it.
 

 

Yes, I do apologize for making it sound like you were saying the same thing.    That was never my intention.

 

 

[mr moose]

 

16 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I'm in no argument. He's making shit up. 

 

I've laid out links with details backing my claims, he has none.

 

https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance

 

I'm not making anything up, you clearly said it:

 

On 8/3/2021 at 3:33 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

It really is useful marketing leverage. No maintenance. Get in vehicle for 2 straight years and never check a single thing.

 

You absolutely should not drive a vehicle for 2 years without checking anything.    I don't care what the marketing material tells you.   If marketing material could be trusted at face value we would all be buying multiple Nvidia GPUS and saving money, we'd all be paying no fees on CC's,  hell you could own your own land in Scotland and be a real Lord/Lady for only $35. 

 

The fact of the matter is that marketing material does not mean that "never having to check a single thing" is a selling point let alone good advice.

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

I'm not making anything up, you clearly said it:

 

 

You absolutely should not drive a vehicle for 2 years without checking anything.    I don't care what the marketing material tells you.   If marketing material could be trusted at face value we would all be buying multiple Nvidia GPUS and saving money, we'd all be paying no fees on CC's,  hell you could own your own land in Scotland and be a real Lord/Lady for only $35. 

 

The fact of the matter is that marketing material does not mean that "never having to check a single thing" is a selling point let alone good advice.

 

 

Quit quoting me.

It says 2 Fn years right there.

You didn't design the car.

You didn't make the maintenance program for the car.

 

Therefor 2 years, drive the car, do nothing to maintain it. It's that simple. 

 

After that, you are reaching for maintenance the Tesla electric vehicle doesn't need.

 

In fact, we could wait for a Tesla owner to chime in and we could ask how often he changes the engine oil if something like that satisfies you.

[Rocketdog2112]

On 8/2/2021 at 5:44 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

Gasoline needs to vaporize before it can ignite. It takes heat to make things really get out of hand. Hydrogen is a gas at atmospheric pressure, and so is pretty much ready to party right away. The Hindenburg is a pretty striking example. 

Actually gasoline is not vaporized, but atomized prior to ignition.

[Master Delta Chief]

9 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Quit quoting me.

It says 2 Fn years right there.

You didn't design the car.

You didn't make the maintenance program for the car.

 

Therefor 2 years, drive the car, do nothing to maintain it. It's that simple. 

 

After that, you are reaching for maintenance the Tesla electric vehicle doesn't need.

 

In fact, we could wait for a Tesla owner to chime in and we could ask how often he changes the engine oil if something like that satisfies you.

I don't think you seem to understand the difference between marketing ploys that companies do and actual reality. I personally would have my car checked every year to ensure nothing is wrong with it, definitely if you have the vehicle for a long time that has done some a lot of kilometers. In some parts of the world you are legally required to do that, though it depends mostly on the age of said vehicle. 

[mr moose]

21 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Quit quoting me.

It says 2 Fn years right there.

You didn't design the car.

You didn't make the maintenance program for the car.

 

Therefor 2 years, drive the car, do nothing to maintain it. It's that simple. 

 

After that, you are reaching for maintenance the Tesla electric vehicle doesn't need.

 

In fact, we could wait for a Tesla owner to chime in and we could ask how often he changes the engine oil if something like that satisfies you.

There is a pretty huge difference between not having to carry out maintenance on an ICE engine and not checking "ANYTHING" on your car for 2 years. 

 

Marketing is loose with the truth at best and outright lies for the most part.

[airborne spoon]

On 8/2/2021 at 2:06 PM, hollyh88 said:

lol no thanks. ill keep driving diesel till i can no longer do so. 
there is one thing you EV supporters seem to forget. Power usage. Imagine if all of europe all of the sudden went EV. there wouldnt be enough power to supply everything and we would have a dark age. And heck even as the users of EV is rising here in europe countries are already having issues upkeeping the powernet. Heck the EU wants to add chargers every 15km along highways. Thats gonna be fun for the electric net as well. oh and lets not forget the roooooows of people needing to wait to charge their car. 
and yes. the environment can get my middlefinger. 

This is wrong on so many levels and you should educate yourself before making such incorrect statements. Also i support the fuck the environment approach, i bought my Tesla 4 years ago because i wanted more power, no fucks about the environment. i had a mustang with 475hp at the wheel and I'd just installed a supercharger and the tesla made that car feel like a slow buggy from the 20's.

On 8/2/2021 at 2:21 PM, Senzelian said:

Interestingly enough I just found a masters thesis showing the necessary work that needs to be done to convert all gas stations at the A96 (Autobahn 96 (highway)) to electric charging stations. So this excludes the benefit of being able to charge at home.

According to this thesis it would require 18 nuclear power plants of the powerplant "Grohnde" to power the current traffic just on that one Autobahn.

The Autobahn 96 isn't even that large or particular outstanding in terms of its traffic.

Of course, who knows how accurate this is, especially considering it came out in 2018, but interesting nontheless.

https://opus.fhv.at/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/2773/file/Masterarbeit_Reitmair.pdf

18x this for one highway: 

The maths are wrong in that calculation though, well they are right but done in the wrong way. There is no need to replace ALL the petrol stations with EV chargers, since there is a petrol station every 5km or so. You only need a EV charge station every 50km and that is being generous, you could easily only have them every 100km and still be fine.

 

Also nobody is talking about transitioning to EV's overnight, it is a gradual process and we are currently on track just fine and successfully. Also once we finally go away from gas/diesel all the electricity those refineries used will now be available to the grid and there will be an excess of power.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 6:20 PM, Mel0nMan said:

I will fight anyone who disagrees alongside you...

hahaha seriously i loved the sound of my last car, and when i hear a properly tuned car drive by its great, now those ricers with the folders fart can exhaust, those morons make my ears hurt and i grind my teeth when i hear those annoying things drive by.

On 8/2/2021 at 9:30 PM, poochyena said:

few, few people do that. Few people ACTUALLY need a car that can travel for 300+ miles non-stop.

You seriously think 200+ miles isn't a realistic range for a normal or even long commute to work? If 200 miles is a short commute, what do you think the average commute is?

How often, if ever, do you think the average american is driving 400 miles non-stop? The few times they do, they could just rent a gasoline car. The overwhelming amount of driving people do is within 50 miles of their home.

my commute is about 3 miles each way. but the nearest town is 40 miles away and i take 2x 400 mile trips every month. I have to stop and charge 4 times going up the mountains (i could do 2 stops but its faster to stop more often for shorter amounts of charge) and 2 times coming down for obvious reasons. If i didn't have to charge a few times along the trip I'd still stop at least 2 times to stretch my legs and walk the dog and perhaps grab a bite to eat, all of which i do while the car charges.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 11:11 PM, RejZoR said:

Another important thing everyone ignores and I suspect they do this on purpose because they are such EV fanboys. Petrol tax presents a HUGE portion of the actual gas price. In my country, 95 petrol is around 1,25€/L at the moment. 50% of this price is government tax on petrol. With every liter sold government gets around 60 cents. Average petrol tank is 50L. That's 30€ just in tax from one tank of petrol. And they don't have to do ANYTHING for it. It's literally free money for them.

 

Now imagine if we suddenly all start charging on super cheap electricity, bypassing petrol tax. Government gets 0% of petrol tax and they get whatever tax we pay on electricity only. As far as I know only VAT which is 22% in my country. So, effectively, they'll be losing a HUGE chunk of income. Who wants to bet they'll reinstate a fuel tax on electricity in some other way...

Ok there was a lot to break down here but i'll stick to the main point gas tax. Yes you are correct since i don't buy gas i don't pay the gas tax that is used for road repairs (what the gas tax is supposed to be used for that is). However, i do pay a fucking fortune in annual car registration so the gov can get their road tax other ways. and EV registration varies greatly from place to place and nobody has figured out the obvious way to solve it and make it fair, (have the road tax based on the miles driven the previous year).

 

Right now the amount of "gas tax" price hike in the registration across most states is equivalent to a ICE car getting 10 mpg and driving about 30k miles in a year. As we all know the national average is 10k miles driven a year by the average person and the average car gets 25 mpg. so you can see i actually pay more in gas tax that you do. AND I DONT EVEN BUY GAS 

On 8/3/2021 at 6:54 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

It's maintenance free. You check nothing. It goes to a certified technician for inspection every 2 years. wow. Consumer does absolutely nothing. Except maybe change the cabin filter if your really mechanically inclined to do so, every 2 - 3 years lol. 

 

Electric engine = no maintenance.

Gas engine = must maintain.

 

Tell me. When was the last time you serviced your electric drill. never. sealed bearings and everything. 

electric motor in a car turns a wheel very similar to a drill bit. Same concept.

 

Maintenance free engine. 

Maintenance free drive train. You don't check a sealed unit.

 

Wiper juice and a bunch of parts that wear and get repaired.

 

But it's really about the engine. 

 

Oil only to produce electricity for the vehicle.

or

Oil for maintenance (of several fluid types) in gas engines.

My tesla has oil in the front and rear differentials and it needs to be changed every 75-100k miles, that is maintenance not repair.

i have a radiator and a fluid tank that i check every 10k miles and if needed top off, although i only had to add fluid once and that was because i removed the rad and didn't fully clamp off the hose going into it.

i flush my brake lines every year because they almost never get used that is also maintenance not a repair.

Lubing the brake pistons technically is maintenance but could also be called a repair.

tires, i get about 25k miles out of a set of tires, could do closer to 40k miles if i bought more expensive ones and didn't drive like a bat out of hell but it equals out and its cheaper this way for now.

 

Is there maintenance needed for EV's? YES, is it on the same level of stuff needed for a normal ICE car? NO

Do i take my car to tesla to get maintenance done? hell no i do it myself at home, just like i did with every ICE car I've ever owned.

Do i take it to Tesla for repairs? sometimes, but that is usually just for a diagnostic to find out or verify what i suspect is the issue, and i buy the parts from them and do the repair at home, unless its an item on the restricted parts list then they have to install it for me.