Alienware no longer shipping high end gaming PCs to certain US States, citing new power consumption regulations

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

They  CAN ship, but they would be breaking the law and they could be fined/sued for it.

Thats implied by saying "can't". Can't doesn't mean "impossible"

4 minutes ago, CT854 said:

And yet, as a journalist, it's important to consider the impact the headline will have on the reader as simply phrasing a headline a different way can bias the reader one way or another.

Yes, and most articles about this have been just fine.

4 minutes ago, CT854 said:

Two titles can be technically factually correct while leading to vastly different conclusions as to what the story ends up actually elaborating on, or what the story actually is

correct

 

[TechGod]

This forum is actually ridiculous. Imagine blaming the state when Dell failed to meet regulations that THEY AGREED TO! Seems like a subset of Americans really hate CA and I'm not even American myself. 

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

But why?

Because once you fire it off in to space it's gone forever. Extracting the earths resources and then ultimately ejecting it in to space never to seen or be able to use it again is a quick road to resource depletion. 

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Because once you fire it off in to space it's gone forever. Extracting the earths resources and then ultimately ejecting it in to space never to seen or be able to use it again is a quick road to resource depletion. 

Ah, yeah, good point. 

 

7 hours ago, Sarra said:

which is causing people to be... Angry?

But why? 

 

Lol, seriously people get blinded by that "cool" plastic "console like" chasis, is unbelievable…

 

I mean and then it has the worst possible cooler (in case of what GN reviewed, a intel cooler frankensteinered  onto a poor Ryzen cpu lol)

[TheSage79]

This one is really on Dell, not the state of California. Dell was literally IN the group who decided these standards - they have zero excuse for following the standards they helped create. They should stop buying cheap, proprietary, power supplies for their systems. As for California, I think it is a good standard. All it does is ensure that computer systems that are in their low power states are actually in a low power state that is meaningful. It doesn't limit what computers can do when they are active. If you want to run your system at 2000 watts while active, then California is fine with that. Its only when the computer is in a lower power state that California steps in and says, "That better actually be a low power state"

[TechGod]

2 hours ago, TheSage79 said:

This one is really on Dell, not the state of California. Dell was literally IN the group who decided these standards - they have zero excuse for following the standards they helped create. They should stop buying cheap, proprietary, power supplies for their systems. As for California, I think it is a good standard. All it does is ensure that computer systems that are in their low power states are actually in a low power state that is meaningful. It doesn't limit what computers can do when they are active. If you want to run your system at 2000 watts while active, then California is fine with that. Its only when the computer is in a lower power state that California steps in and says, "That better actually be a low power state"

No no, apparently this is infringing on people's freedom and apparently this makes CA a nanny state. 

 

These people are bonkers. 

[Mister Woof]

13 minutes ago, TechGod said:

No no, apparently this is infringing on people's freedom and apparently this makes CA a nanny state. 

 

These people are bonkers. 

California has done some shady shit in the past on several things, which makes it very easy to eat up what these journalists were printing. 

 

Their track record also creates some distrust among the residents, and outsiders, so it should not be surprising that people jump to conclusions and publications write their articles to aim to foster them.

 

I'm happy to live here compared to other options, and most of the things the State does I am on board with.

 

I at first believed from the articles that this was for sure the case, but after reading some of the other posters here I've accepted that isn't what's going on.

[Nowak]

So basically, Dell/Alienware is failing to meet idle power consumption standards in a few states because of the cheap power supplies they use in these PCs, and rather than simply upgrading to better, more efficient power supplies that do meet these standards they just choose to decline orders from these states because that's the short-term cheaper route.

 

I love big corporations.

[CarlBar]

6 minutes ago, Nowak said:

So basically, Dell/Alienware is failing to meet idle power consumption standards in a few states because of the cheap power supplies they use in these PCs

 

The PSU's are not the problem. They're solid units efficiency wise. GN actually ran a PSU test suite on them and found they where very solid. The issue is partly a Ryzen issue, partly Dells design. The R10 is effectively a small form factor PC internally so it has few expansion capabilities and combines that with a fairly power hungry fan and hot running components. On top of that ryzen has a much more power hungry chipset than Intels offerings so it much harder to get a low idle power with them. Dells bloatware probably doesn't either.

[IkeaGnome]

So Dell helped set the standard. Had (if I remember correctly) 5 or 6 years to adjust to the standards they helped set, decided not to. It's now California's fault?

I understand the hate for California, and I avoid it everywhere possible, but how is this on them?

This would be like Volvo not putting a seat belt in a new car and then getting angry with what ever government fines them for not. 

[poochyena]

Isn't amazing how you can get 15,000 likes on twitter for completely making stuff up?

Not only that, but he doubles down

Cars, famous for lacking any energy regulations.

[WkdPaul]

51 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Isn't amazing how you can get 15,000 likes on twitter for completely making stuff up?

People posting and believing this is honestly sad. Willful ignorance is the plague of the information era we're in.

[Mister Woof]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Isn't amazing how you can get 15,000 likes on twitter for completely making stuff up?

Not only that, but he doubles down

Cars, famous for lacking any energy regulations.

And yet you still don't believe the initial media reports helped to cultivate this perspective?

[poochyena]

37 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

And yet you still don't believe the initial media reports helped to cultivate this perspective?

No, the initial reporting was completely accurate Dell won't ship energy-hungry PCs to California and five other US states due to power regulations. It wasn't until a day or two later that the low effort bloggers started to post their clickbait saying "gaming PCs are banned in California!"

[Zodiark1593]

16 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

California has done some shady shit in the past on several things, which makes it very easy to eat up what these journalists were printing. 

 

Their track record also creates some distrust among the residents, and outsiders, so it should not be surprising that people jump to conclusions and publications write their articles to aim to foster them.

 

I'm happy to live here compared to other options, and most of the things the State does I am on board with.

 

I at first believed from the articles that this was for sure the case, but after reading some of the other posters here I've accepted that isn't what's going on.

The hot climate and expensive housing can go straight to hell. Otherwise, I’ve no qualm with California.

 

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

People posting and believing this is honestly sad. Willful ignorance is the plague of the information era we're in.

 

The internet is remarkably indiscriminate, which is a blessing for those pursuing knowledge, and provides anyone with an internet connection the potential to influence hearts and minds on a scale unfathomable a century ago.
 

The downside is that absolutely everyone has that potential, regardless of their intent and knowledge. The internet doesn’t care if you’re ignorant, or outright evil. Just as the internet is an immensely powerful tool, it can just as well be used as a weapon. 
 

I’ve no idea what could resolve this problem in a reasonable manner. Ramping up public education to eleven, and allowing age to handle the rest is probably the path of least resistance I can think of. IE, we just have to put up with the willful ignorance, and hope that either it resolves itself, or that future generations are better off in this regard. 

[poochyena]

5 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I’ve no idea what could resolve this problem in a reasonable manner. Ramping up public education to eleven, and allowing age to handle the rest is probably the path of least resistance I can think of.

Best way is to teach people how to find the truth and detect lies. This video I watched 10 years ago really changed how I view video

The same youtuber also also taught me about ALWAYS checking sources. Even in articles, check their main sources and who they are quoting until you find the original source.

The problem here isn't even the clickbait, its people not digging deeper for the orignal source. Its a game of telephone. The further from the original source you get, the less accurate the info is. "dell can't sell some gaming PCs in CA due to energy restricts" --> "Dell can't sell gaming PCs in CA due to energy restrictions" --> "gaming PCs are banned in CA due to energy restrictions".

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Best way is to teach people how to find the truth and detect lies. This video I watched 10 years ago really changed how I view video

The same youtuber also also taught me about ALWAYS checking sources. Even in articles, check their main sources and who they are quoting until you find the original source.

The problem here isn't even the clickbait, its people not digging deeper for the orignal source. Its a game of telephone. The further from the original source you get, the less accurate the info is. "dell can't sell some gaming PCs in CA due to energy restricts" --> "Dell can't sell gaming PCs in CA due to energy restrictions" --> "gaming PCs are banned in CA due to energy restrictions".

You're posting a video basically validating what I've been saying.

 

There are millions of dollars spent on figuring out how to spin facts to fit a certain agenda. The past several years have proven this to a huge degree and the consequences have been devastating.

 

We can bitch and moan and blame people for not checking facts, but it's irresponsible to deny that a large portion of the problem is the direct result of media influence and spin. 

[poochyena]

11 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

You're posting a video basically validating what I've been saying.

 

There are millions of dollars spent on figuring out how to spin facts to fit a certain agenda. The past several years have proven this to a huge degree and the consequences have been devastating.

 

We can bitch and moan and blame people for not checking facts, but it's irresponsible to deny that a large portion of the problem is the direct result of media influence and spin. 

without journalists and the media, we wouldn't know the facts in the first place. People attacking journalism are the problem, there is a reason fascists go after the media first. The person in the video is part of the media. The doublespeak to say the media is bad and to then say you agree with it is troubling.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

without journalists and the media, we wouldn't know the facts in the first place. People attacking journalism are the problem, there is a reason fascists go after the media first. The person in the video is part of the media. The doublespeak to say the media is bad and to then say you agree with it is troubling.

Because I accept the fact that media can influence their audiences and holds some responsibility for what they say?

 

Fascism for sure bro....

 

Nobody is saying the media needs to go. Nobody is saying that people don't need to verify information. Almost everyone is saying media influences their audiences, and has some responsibility for what they report and how they report it.

 

Initial reporting of this was irresponsible, plain and simple. I cannot fathom how you cannot understand this.

 

You're sticking your head in the sand on principle - it does not matter if people by and large are too stupid or ignorant to be able to discern truth from fiction from the media - the fact remains whether you like it or not that it happens. Refusing to acknowledge it just makes you seem naïve. 

[poochyena]

2 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Because I accept the fact that media can influence their audiences and holds some responsibility for what they say?

No, because you blame "the media" for the problems in society.

4 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Initial reporting of this was irresponsible

There is nothing irresponsible with reporting the facts, which is what they did. You have yet attempt to explain how "Dell won't ship energy-hungry PCs to California and five other US states due to power regulations." is false in any way.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

No, because you blame "the media" for the problems in society.

There is nothing irresponsible with reporting the facts, which is what they did. You have yet attempt to explain how "Dell won't ship energy-hungry PCs to California and five other US states due to power regulations." is false in any way.

Head

 

in

 

sand

 

 

Really wish ignore didn't just tease you with "You're ignoring this content"

 

[WkdPaul]

26 minutes ago, poochyena said:

There is nothing irresponsible with reporting the facts, which is what they did. You have yet attempt to explain how "Dell won't ship energy-hungry PCs to California and five other US states due to power regulations." is false in any way.

Not false, but misleading. You can disagree all you want, it's doesn't change the fact that it WAS misleading. Not saying it was false, simply that is written in a way to paint the states as the bad guys, while this isn't the case, Dell was aware of this since 2016, and yet didn't take any steps to prevent it.

 

The title should've been "Dell can't ship some PCs to several states because they didn't take new regulation into account they were aware of"

 

What @Mister Woof is complaining about here is media spin and bias ... Implying that he's a fascist for complaining about how media are click baiting is, IMHO, extremely petty and disingenuous.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, poochyena said:

Isn't amazing how you can get 15,000 likes on twitter for completely making stuff up?

Not only that, but he doubles down

Cars, famous for lacking any energy regulations.

Some people just refuse to read anything but headlines.

But they aren't wrong about Tesla, since they mentioned how much power an EV uses which is obviously much more than a gaming PC, and I wouldn't consider a Tesla the most environmentally friendly vehicle considering a Tesla is the complete opposite of right to repair. Once the car is out of warranty and the screen or the control unit in the info screen fails, the car is junk because many of the car functions are on the screen.

Or Tesla wanting to charge $16,000 for a repair that costs $700, this would total the car for anyone that doesn't know the company is trying to rip them off.

 

[Mister Woof]

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Some people just refuse to read anything but headlines.

But they aren't wrong about Tesla, since they mentioned how much power an EV uses which is obviously much more than a gaming PC, and I wouldn't consider a Tesla the most environmentally friendly vehicle considering a Tesla is the complete opposite of right to repair. Once the car is out of warranty and the screen or the control unit in the info screen fails, the car is junk because many of the car functions are on the screen.

Or Tesla wanting to charge $16,000 for a repair that costs $700, this would total the car for anyone that doesn't know the company is trying to rip them off.

 

I'd say the smartest thing would be to try to curb sales of new anything, and just keep using what we already have. There's millions of cars that still work fine, and many of which are still pretty fuel efficient.

 

Rushing to replace them all prematurely with shiny new EVs might help some CO2 for now (if the power infrastructure where they are being used isn't just fossil fuels anyway) might not really result in net gain in emissions reduction.

 

I think making replacement vehicles EV/hubrid the next step after old vehicles no longer can safely function is great. But not the wholesale shift all at once without the actual need to do so.

 

Although not sure how to encourage transition when necessary, but conservation when not, can be executed.

[Blademaster91]

On 7/29/2021 at 9:57 AM, Kisai said:

I doubt they are coming with "Junk PSU's", as GN pointed out the Dell PSU's were actually pretty good. "Just short of Titanium" rating.

-snip-

And that was in what was otherwise a junky PC from Dell.

 

The main thing with "high end" PC's is that they have water coolers and RGB LED's all over the place, which raises it's minimum-energy use. You can't turn the water pump off like you can turn air coolers down/off on standby. Likewise these Dell systems usually are the F model CPU's which have the iGPU disabled, so the dGPU also is constantly running.

 

Pretty much Dell could make it hit California's standards but it would needs to limit it to air cooling and using bigger fans, which means a bigger case. If you actually try to build the Alienware systems, they require you to use liquid cooling for the i9 and Ryzen 9 parts.

 

To get higher than 90% efficient would require 240V power, and nobody has 240V outlets in their homes... unless they want to unhook their laundry dryer or electric oven.

The Dell in that GN video was an ATX1VO unit, I don't get why Dell didn't design the Alienware R10 to use an ATX12VO PSU, it seems like Dell is cheaping out where ever they could with the Alienware PC's, but make it look cool with a plastic casing and RGB LED's.

The Alienware R10 Ryzen edition seems to have several problems,  the PSU is rated for 80 plus gold but it still probably doesn't meet the low load regulations going by from what people are saying in this thread. The exhaust fan can use up to 18 watts, and the CPU cooler is inadequate for the CPU causing it to run so hot it throttles, which might also hurt efficiency. I'm not sure about liquid cooling, or the use of RGB, but that isn't an issue for other companies that build PC's with liquid cooling or lots of RGB LED's and fans.