People Will Literally Fight Over This

[Emily Young]

In an age where people will fight over even the chance to get a video card, does it really matter how one performs or what it costs? And is the 3070 Ti even any good?

 

 

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 Ti (PAID LINK): Coming soon

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/Si8kya

[tikker]

Wait what, there's a 3070 Ti? How did that slip under my radar.

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, tikker said:

Wait what, there's a 3070 Ti? How did that slip under my radar.

The 3070 Ti is the 3070 with GDDR6X instead of GDDR6. That's it, as far as I'm aware.

[SorryBella]

Finally, a way to run Ryzen 5 5600X in sub 2k 1440p gaming context. Thanks Nvidia.

[AbydosOne]

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

The 3070 Ti is the 3070 with GDDR6X instead of GDDR6. That's it, as far as I'm aware.

 

Did LMG goof?

 

EDIT: it's GDDR6 but clocked much higher?

 

EDITEDIT: LMG did goof?

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, AbydosOne said:

Did LMG goof?

Seems they did. 3070 Ti definitely has G6X. I didn't know they upped the CUDA and RT core count though.

[Lurick]

I have to say I REALLY liked the highlights on the graphs when discussing frame rates.

[Spotty]

4 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

Did LMG goof?

Yep, LTT got it wrong. Linus even mentions "with the same 8 gigs of GDDR6 memory on the same 256 bit bus" so it's not just a mistake the editor made in the slide.

 

The specs page on Nvidia's website also says GDDR6X memory for the 3070 Ti.

 

Makes you wonder if you can trust the rest of the review... Time to go watch Gamers Nexus then I guess.

[Red :)]

 

nice

[Egg-Roll]

16 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Makes you wonder if you can trust the rest of the review...

If the ending of the 3080 Ti is anything to go based off of (watching it now), just look at the bench marks raw numbers and watch other videos for actual opinions on the card.

However for the base of $600 (if you could ever get one that is), it's a far better deal than the 3080 Ti, the question is it worth the $100 more tho, idk, at least it's no $500 increase this time.

[MultiGamerClub]

Well *ofcourse* they want to fight to get a drop in the ocean for the juicy juicy graphics card!

Edited June 9, 2021 by MultiGamerClub
ofcourse is probably a better word.. Second edit.. When i even forget to edit out the bad word man.. oof.

[Spotty]

18 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

If the ending of the 3080 Ti is anything to go based off of (watching it now), just look at the bench marks raw numbers and watch other videos for actual opinions on the card.

However for the base of $600 (if you could ever get one that is), it's a far better deal than the 3080 Ti, the question is it worth the $100 more tho, idk, at least it's no $500 increase this time.

Watched Gamers Nexus review, from what I gathered watching at 2x playback speed it's roughly between 5-10% performance improvement over the 3070 but costs 20% more* (*non-scalped prices, scalped prices could actually be even worse value).

 

Pretty unimpressive overall. I think most of the cost is in the more expensive GDDR6X memory. If it was only $50 more it might have been fine. Also in GN review they showed the 3070ti drawing 70W more than the 3070 which I'm assuming is in part due to the GDDR6X memory and partly the higher core clock speed.

 

Another thing to consider is doesn't the 3070 Ti have Nvidia's mining limiter on it? Unfortunately no mention of it in either GN or LTT reviews. If the 3070 is not limited but the 3070 Ti is limited then that makes it even worse value for people looking to recoup some of the cost of buying a new graphics card by mining on the side (assuming the limiter isn't easily broken again).

 

I think the only reason to buy the RTX 3070 Ti is if you can't get a RTX 3070 or RX 6800, or if you do something very specific that would benefit from faster memory but even then the 6800 has 16GB of VRAM vs only 8GB in the 3070 Ti and the higher VRAM would probably be more beneficial in most memory intensive tasks.

[MultiGamerClub]

41 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Yep, LTT got it wrong. Linus even mentions "with the same 8 gigs of GDDR6 memory on the same 256 bit bus" so it's not just a mistake the editor made in the slide.

 

The specs page on Nvidia's website also says GDDR6X memory for the 3070 Ti.

 

Makes you wonder if you can trust the rest of the review... Time to go watch Gamers Nexus then I guess.

3070TI got 6000+ Cuda cores?

 

Damn my brother is buying that card..

Did not think it had DOUBLE the cuda-cores my 2080 super card has

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

1 minute ago, MultiGamerClub said:

Did not think it had DOUBLE the cuda-cores my 2080 super card has

They are not directly comparable across generations.

[Stahlmann]

7 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Another thing to consider is doesn't the 3070 Ti have Nvidia's mining limiter on it? Unfortunately no mention of it in either GN or LTT reviews.

All Nvidia GPUs released from now on will have the mining limiter. They don't have to mention it. The cards that were already on the market get LHR versions. The new cards are all LHR and thus don't need to be differentiated between LHR and non-LHR.

[Stahlmann]

6 minutes ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

They are not directly comparable across generations.

Which just means it's another useless spec that doesn't say anything about performance.

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

Which just means it's another useless spec that doesn't say anything about performance.

It's still useful to compare within a generation. For example:

 

The 3070ti vs the 3070 has [(6144 - 5888) / 5888] * 100= ~4.3% more CUDA cores.

 

The 3070ti appears to perform 5-10% better than the 3070. The additional CUDA cores account for some of that additional performance, while the GDDR6X and higher clock speed account for the rest.

 

A similar comparison can be made between an RTX 2080 and an RTX 2080 Super. ~4.3% more CUDA cores with faster RAM and higher clocks for 5-10% more performance.

[Stahlmann]

8 minutes ago, HairlessMonkeyBoy said:

It's still useful to compare within a generation. For example:

 

The 3070ti vs the 3070 has [(6144 - 5888) / 5888] * 100= ~4.3% more CUDA cores.

 

The 3070ti appears to perform 5-10% better than the 3070. The additional CUDA cores account for some of that additional performance, while the GDDR6X and higher clock speed account for the rest.

 

A similar comparison can be made between an RTX 2080 and an RTX 2080 Super. ~4.3% more CUDA cores with faster RAM and higher clocks for 5-10% more performance.

Okay so it does tell something about performance. You got me there.

 

But let's be real; People will much more likely just remember the straight up performance differences than the percentage of CUDA cores, clock speed, etc.

[Egg-Roll]

31 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Watched Gamers Nexus review, from what I gathered watching at 2x playback speed it's roughly between 5-10% performance improvement over the 3070 but costs 20% more* (*non-scalped prices, scalped prices could actually be even worse value).

 

Pretty unimpressive overall. I think most of the cost is in the more expensive GDDR6X memory. If it was only $50 more it might have been fine. Also in GN review they showed the 3070ti drawing 70W more than the 3070 which I'm assuming is in part due to the GDDR6X memory and partly the higher core clock speed.

 

Another thing to consider is doesn't the 3070 Ti have Nvidia's mining limiter on it? Unfortunately no mention of it in either GN or LTT reviews. If the 3070 is not limited but the 3070 Ti is limited then that makes it even worse value for people looking to recoup some of the cost of buying a new graphics card by mining on the side (assuming the limiter isn't easily broken again).

 

I think the only reason to buy the RTX 3070 Ti is if you can't get a RTX 3070 or RX 6800, or if you do something very specific that would benefit from faster memory but even then the 6800 has 16GB of VRAM vs only 8GB in the 3070 Ti and the higher VRAM would probably be more beneficial in most memory intensive tasks.

I'm going to be watching that one next (or maybe Jays) but for the extra price for a few extra compute units and better ram right now it might not be better for the buck but after a few driver updates we might have a winner, the 3080 according to GN did improve since its own review so one can assume the same can happen with the 3070 Ti.

 

A limiter may mean nothing depending on how they implement it. So if they push the rate down to my cards (5700 XT) numbers of around 50MH/s (sounds like it) it's perfectly feasible to still profit off of the card, esp if you play with the power settings. Without playing with the power settings on my card (I mostly play games, etc not mine), I can still technically make profit:

 That is at 20 cents a Kw/h (USD not CAD) which is really only at peak time in CAD.

Sure it will take some stupidly long time, but remember the currency is in a slight recession thanks to Elon, China and some bad press, once it rebounds that coin will be worth more, and best to get as much of it before Ether fleas from the scene.

Yea the second someone breaks the limiter all bets are off. Never claim something is unbreakable/hackable, someone will always show you up on it, I don't think Nvidia made that kind of claim this time however.

 

I do agree if possible go with either of those cards first but at least if you can't either or a non-Ti 3080 but can get this, it's still a good option at least. However these prices are all theoretical and on paper since most AIBs won't throw a chip into a $600ish unit when the $900 unit will sellout anyways  I guess Linus doesn't know that based on his words in this video. It's not that they don't want to produce it else the SKUs would never exist, it's just why would they in this economy?

[dogwitch]

sad people think they will get fe cards.... i look at recent post and talk about oh am going to get it at this price... then when they go in store or online.... its aib prices...

[jones177]

Information without attitude. I like it.

[AndreiArgeanu]

Ah yes, a wild unobtainimium appeared

[chebsy]

Thanks Linus et al for the measured video and reasonable advice at the end.  

 

I feel that GN has really missed the mark on these TI reviews.  Comparing performance relative to MSRP and then complaining about "value" is a completely useless measure in this market and he is doubling down on that flawed methodology.  I'm glad you can see that. 

 

I appreciate you guys suggesting that people buy 3070TI/3080TIs at MSRP if they can.  Because what you are actually suggesting is that people buy things at well below market value - which is good advice in general. 

 

Cheers.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, chebsy said:

I feel that GN has really missed the mark on these TI reviews.  Comparing performance relative to MSRP and then complaining about "value" is a completely useless measure in this market and he is doubling down on that flawed methodology.  I'm glad you can see that. 

I appreciate you guys suggesting that people buy 3070TI/3080TIs at MSRP if they can.  Because what you are actually suggesting is that people buy things at well below market value - which is good advice in general. 

Wait so you are telling me that if market supply was to settle tomorrow that his review would still hold no merit because it doesn't today? Or if Nvidia started releasing their cards at 10x their current price, none of that matters, not the price not the price to performance? The only flawed methodology is yours and Linus's as you don't see the logic behind his video (you shouldn't change due to a spike in the market that will eventually settle) and Linus didn't do a good job for the longevity of the video. GNs will hold true well after the market normalizes, as you wouldn't want to buy a 3080 Ti for $600 when you can get a 3080 for $300 (both used obviously), would you? For you I guess so. That's the flaw in Linus's content there is no reliability for the long run, only the now. It's called short term gains long term potential losses.

 

Equally suggesting someone to buy a 3080 Ti isn't a smart idea even as a last ditch effort, look at what happened to the 2080 Ti before the crypto boom the $1200 card turned into a $600 card overnight, the 3070 Ti isn't the best idea (however not the worst) but suggesting the 3080 Ti, different story. Considering you can't actually get anything a 6900 XT is a far better choice and you have a higher chance of getting it closer to the MSRP via AIBs as well.

 

TL;TR Buy any card under $1000 MSRP, likely won't be money wasted (6900 XT is very debatable), or if you want to go baller get the 3090. However all this is useless both GNs and Linus's videos my words your words, they all mean nothing if no one can buy it anyways. Equally outside of Linus, why is basically everyone else hating on Nvidia right now with both the 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti? It couldn't be everyone isn't that short sighted now could it? Nah Linus is totally right and perfect on this matter _/s

 

5 hours ago, dogwitch said:

sad people think they will get fe cards.... i look at recent post and talk about oh am going to get it at this price... then when they go in store or online.... its aib prices...

Not sure about now but some people on Reddit a few months back stated they were successful in getting cards at MSRP (assuming FE) by basically showing up to Best Buy daily lol. So there is a chance, remote, but it still exists, I've also had better luck buying in store with hot items over online however that was last year non-tech (or earlier days). Canada Computers has stated they won't be releasing the 3070 Ti in stores but online and will now be refusing warranty and returns on cards they claim have been used for mining.

It would be interesting to see how effective that actually is, because Furmark exists unless Nvidia has provided a tool for shops to find out if the limiter has been triggered.

Quote

Return And Exchange Of Items Used For Mining And Farming Cryptocurrencies

Canada Computers will not return, exchange, or provide warranty service for any product that has been used outside of its intended purpose (e.g., cryptocurrency mining and farming). Due to the excessive wear on components used for cryptocurrency mining and farming, Canada Computers will not cover any product(s) that has been used for this purpose. All products will be tested, and parameters of use will be looked at before granting return, exchange, or warranty service. Any product that has been deemed used for mining and/or farming will not be accepted for return or exchange at any Canada Computers location and the warranty will be deemed void with Canada Computers. However, customers may still go directly to the manufacturer for all warranty claims that Canada Computers has declined. Most customers will not be affected by these changes and Canada Computers will still honor the return, exchange, and warranty policies for items used for their intended purposes.

 

Tho it should be noted CC has had some scummy practices in the past, this could be just an excuse to do nothing.

[chebsy]

6 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Wait so you are telling me that if market supply was to settle tomorrow that his review would still hold no merit because it doesn't today? Or if Nvidia started releasing their cards at 10x their current price, none of that matters, not the price not the price to performance? The only flawed methodology is yours and Linus's as you don't see the logic behind his video (you shouldn't change due to a spike in the market that will eventually settle) and Linus didn't do a good job for the longevity of the video. GNs will hold true well after the market normalizes, as you wouldn't want to buy a 3080 Ti for $600 when you can get a 3080 for $300 (both used obviously), would you? For you I guess so. That's the flaw in Linus's content there is no reliability for the long run, only the now. It's called short term gains long term potential losses.

 

Equally suggesting someone to buy a 3080 Ti isn't a smart idea even as a last ditch effort, look at what happened to the 2080 Ti before the crypto boom the $1200 card turned into a $600 card overnight, the 3070 Ti isn't the best idea (however not the worst) but suggesting the 3080 Ti, different story. Considering you can't actually get anything a 6900 XT is a far better choice and you have a higher chance of getting it closer to the MSRP via AIBs as well.

 

TL;TR Buy any card under $1000 MSRP, likely won't be money wasted 6900 XT is very debatable), or if you want to go baller get the 3090. However all this is useless both GNs and Linus's videos my words your words, they all mean nothing if no one can buy it anyways. Equally outside of Linus, why is basically everyone else hating on Nvidia right now with both the 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti? It couldn't be everyone isn't that short sighted now could it? Nah Linus is totally right and perfect on this matter

Well I think Linus was pretty clear in his review that he was giving a "buy" recommendation based on the current market.  But I agree with you in part, Linus could have clarified that the 3080 offers a much stronger price/performance value than the 3080 TI, and if/when the market recovers, he would recommend that instead. 

 

And that's really all I wanted to see, someone who understands that there is an undistributed middle between "comparing MSRP is the only way" and "comparing actual prices is the only way".  You can easily address both and offer a balanced conclusion.

 

But with that said, neither myself nor anyone else can predict when this market will "recover", what that recovery will look like, and what the landscape will be going forward.  So for Linus to completely ignore comparing cards based on MSRP, I feel that the onus of predicting the future is lifted from him, and he can offer a more relevant and useful opinion to his viewers in the here and now.

 

For what it's worth I'm not a fanboy of anyone, I just came here to talk about fan control software.  But I think tech toobers have been doing a very bad job recently with respect to GPUs and wanted to give credit to LTT where it was due.