Everybody hates the windows store: Microsoft releases it's own *nix like package manager, bypassing the windows store.

[WolframaticAlpha]

36 minutes ago, Lietu said:

It's sad seeing people parrot this news about the "package manager" without in any way actually checking up on their facts and understanding that what Microsoft calls a package manager is in no way what anyone who has ever used a package manager expects from one.

There are no managed repositories with signatures, maintainers verifying releases, doing patches, etc. - there's a GitHub where anyone can submit their trash https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs .. and because of this, there is really no strict versioning in place, so you've got a number of unique software vendors deciding on their own versioning schemes, half of whom have never even heard of "semantic versioning" nor care enough to implement it even if they know what it is - so there's little in terms of being able to control software compatibility via this .. "repository".

 

There are basically no packages, it is mainly a wrapper for downloading and installing .exe installers from all around the planet, for example CPU-Z: https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/blob/master/manifests/c/CPUID/CPU-Z/1.96/CPUID.CPU-Z.installer.yaml .. these do not provide a way to manage installation, see what is being installed before just running a random .exe, or verify in any way the authenticity of the file. There is no easy way to uninstall these as .exe installers do whatever they want as do the applications after they run. The other option is the MSIX container thing which is causing so many issues with everything installed through the Microsoft Store due to the various restrictions it imposes on the users. When I download software from some developer which is broken (and that happens often) - I can often fix it by injecting DLLs or other changes into the software. MSIX blocks this completely, and makes me rely on inherently unreliable 3rd parties to fix the things they've abandoned years ago because they found something better to do, or hell maybe they just died. This also means that every application will be running their own auto-updater nonsense like before instead of you actually having control over the updates in some way.

There is just no way to define dependencies https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli/issues/163

 

The sad fact is that winget is *nothing* like an actual package manager, and people spreading that misinformation is doing a disservice to everyone. I'm really annoyed when in the WAN show they just take this 5 sentence copy & paste from some Microsoft press release and then start talking about the benefits of *actual* package managers as if winget gave any of those.

Also the flat out pointless FUD about "package managers" being for CLI users and power users only. What nonsense. Well implemented package manager is one that has a GUI application called something like "Software store" where you go and find a thing you want installed and click "Install" and then it figures out everything that needs to be done to get that installed and successfully running on your system - including installing the other things it depends on - and just does that. Compare that to the experience where you google for the name of the software, finding 5 shady looking websites to download from each with ads with intentionally confusing looking download buttons on them, rolling the dice on that .exe installer not having any viruses, and then trying to figure out if that requires Visual C++ redistributables or .NET 3.5 or what else and you might see the point. Now *winget* will definitely not get you that, because it's not a package manager, and it's one of the worst jokes for anything like this on the Windows ecosystem alone.

 

Just use Chocolatey. It's basically as close to a package manager you can get on Windows. It even has a GUI - although far from the prettiest one I've seen.

 

In reality Microsoft has heard the community complain about how their "package manager" is not one and how broken it is even as a concept and then refuses to do anything about it, e.g.:

• https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli/discussions/847
• https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli/discussions/223

 

Have you ever heard of PPA's and arch user repositories? Winget is a hybrid b/w the two of them.

 

> Well implemented package manager is one that has a GUI application called something like "Software store" where you go and find a thing you want installed and click "Install" and then it figures out everything that needs to be done to get that installed and successfully running on your system - including installing the other things it depends on - and just does that. 

 

Swupd and eopkg and countless others don't have a graphical front end. By your definition, they are not package managers.

 

[Kisai]

15 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Um, no. You actually do get drivers for new PC's. My new workstation, with an i7 10700K, an RX 5700XT, onboard audio, onboard networking, a realtek usb wifi adapter, and a tp link bluetooth card worked flawlessly ootb. It is pretty new hardware and my bluetooth card wasn't even made for Linux. It had no installation instructions, and there are no linux drivers for it. It is a bt 5.0 card and gives me 10 metres of range. Everything worked for me.

You are comparing a desktop that you can pick and choose the hardware. If something doesn't work on your build, you can replace it. You can not on a Laptop.

 

Driver support is all over the place with Linux and the only OS with less hardware support out of the box is OS X, for obvious reasons.

 

15 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

 

 Making a generalization, like saying that windows works for new machines, but linux for old is really annoying and idiotic.

Because it's always true. Linux lags behind Windows in OS support for everything, because some hardware is like pulling teeth from the hardware vendor. Intel and AMD are rather good at Linux support, everyone else, poor. If you pick a more typical gamer setup, nVidia GPU support is often behind, a horrible pain in the ass to setup, and only works on one specific kernel version out of the box. So using an nvidia part with Linux is going to be brutally painful. Fortunately Linux's only appeal to nVidia is ML, not gaming. So ML often sticks with one driver version and nVidia would rather you use their docker image than actually try to install anything.

 

15 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Sure, hardware manufacturers prefer windows as their primary plastform, but the thing is that Linux has a really strong networking interface.

BSD OS's have stronger networking systems and yet, software is often developed for Linux because of the trendy virtualization, which throws away all the hardware acceleration features of the client OS. But then we are talking about servers and not desktop/laptop usage which is what Linux fans often go "will this year be the year of the Linux Deskop?" No, it will never happen because the cats can not be herded to standardize on any of the userland unlike BSD, and several GPL-advocates still insist on being garbage to the greater computer-using community.

 

It's going to be rather ironic in a way that Microsoft is the one that is going to allow people to use Linux on their everyday Windows computer rather than any "successful" Linux distro alone.

 

15 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

The open source drivers suck for stuff like nvidia(due to no variableclocking), but they can work for minor variations. Point in case, if you replace a kepler gtx 650 with a gtx 740(with the nouveau driver), the 650 driver will work for the 740 on opengl, and the results will be in line. Many people criticize Linux for having bad driver support, but unless you are using fedora or debian or gentoo(which are pretty vehemently FOSS), you'll be fine.

See, this is exactly the kind of stuff that makes people not even consider Linux even if they are smart enough to deal with the tinkering hell. "Linux is good, unless you have this hardware, or want to use this flavor of linux" because clearly using Linux requires you to adopt the OS's license philosophy, resulting in various situations like how ffmpeg is worse on Linux because you have to compile it from source with specific hard-to-install-let-alone-get libraries to use things like nvidia video encoders.

 

Case in point, even OSS software on Windows, is often another level of hell to compile on Windows if it wasn't developed on Windows.  That's what this package manager in theory can solve, because then stuff get's installed to standard locations, and you're not having to hunt down where to find things like Newtek NDI and nVidia CuDNN just to run existing software.

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

You are comparing a desktop that you can pick and choose the hardware. If something doesn't work on your build, you can replace it. You can not on a Laptop.

 

Driver support is all over the place with Linux and the only OS with less hardware support out of the box is OS X, for obvious reasons.

 

Because it's always true. Linux lags behind Windows in OS support for everything, because some hardware is like pulling teeth from the hardware vendor. Intel and AMD are rather good at Linux support, everyone else, poor. If you pick a more typical gamer setup, nVidia GPU support is often behind, a horrible pain in the ass to setup, and only works on one specific kernel version out of the box. So using an nvidia part with Linux is going to be brutally painful. Fortunately Linux's only appeal to nVidia is ML, not gaming. So ML often sticks with one driver version and nVidia would rather you use their docker image than actually try to install anything.

 

BSD OS's have stronger networking systems and yet, software is often developed for Linux because of the trendy virtualization, which throws away all the hardware acceleration features of the client OS. But then we are talking about servers and not desktop/laptop usage which is what Linux fans often go "will this year be the year of the Linux Deskop?" No, it will never happen because the cats can not be herded to standardize on any of the userland unlike BSD, and several GPL-advocates still insist on being garbage to the greater computer-using community.

 

It's going to be rather ironic in a way that Microsoft is the one that is going to allow people to use Linux on their everyday Windows computer rather than any "successful" Linux distro alone.

 

See, this is exactly the kind of stuff that makes people not even consider Linux even if they are smart enough to deal with the tinkering hell. "Linux is good, unless you have this hardware, or want to use this flavor of linux" because clearly using Linux requires you to adopt the OS's license philosophy, resulting in various situations like how ffmpeg is worse on Linux because you have to compile it from source with specific hard-to-install-let-alone-get libraries to use things like nvidia video encoders.

 

Case in point, even OSS software on Windows, is often another level of hell to compile on Windows if it wasn't developed on Windows.  That's what this package manager in theory can solve, because then stuff get's installed to standard locations, and you're not having to hunt down where to find things like Newtek NDI and nVidia CuDNN just to run existing software.

 

 

Your entire argument, that Linux is bad for some things right now, and therefore will remain bad is wrong. Linux printer support sucked until a few years ago, but gutenprint, hplip and opencups got better, and now Linux has a larger supported printer database than windows. Major manufacturers like HP provide official support for Linux. Binaries sucked, then appimage, flatpak and snap came and that problem was fixed. GTK and Qt had intercompatibility problems. Now Qt can run a GTK program without any hitches, and can use the system themes. And the list just goes on. Sure there won't be a year of the Linux desktop. But things will be fixed. Bugs will be discovered. Frameworks will be overhauled. Earlier, I wouldn't have adopted a project(Linux) over a product(windows). But  since both Windows and Linux are projects,(one masquerading as a product-service), it is only a matter of time Linux overtakes Windows.

 

I typed this response on a thinkpad T14s running flawlessly on Clear Linux.

 

[ouroesa]

I just wish they would fix the permission issues with windows store apps. Can't view any of the files (so no modding or manually fixing issues via config files) unless you jump through a mess of security hoops which will more than likely 'brick' the MS Store.

Also, when reinstalling Windows, I have to manually take ownership of said folders and delete them as MS Store won't be able to access (view/read/write) it so you will get endless issues. 

Fixing these permission issues will solve 90% of the issues people are having - think this was my issue in every case so far where I had issues with MS Store.

[Uttamattamakin]

16 hours ago, Kisai said:

....

 

Driver support is all over the place with Linux and the only OS with less hardware support out of the box is OS X, for obvious reasons.

...

 

Just wanted to say I totally agree with much of what you have written in this thread.  Most people have zero interest in tinkering with a computer to get it to work.  They just want it to work.  This is the same reason that most people just want to buy a fully assembled and ready to go computer and don't give a rip about the PCMR custom PC snobbery.   Especially those who build their own PC then poo poo windows and tinker Linux onto it. 

 

As one who built a computer and put Ubuntu 20.04 onto it, and stuck with that and its packages I can say this.  Linux CAN give someone who choses their components wisely a good relatively maintenance free experience if they stick with stable packages and don't tinker.  I have done so and so far not had any issues.  That said had I the money I'd've just bought from System 76 and called it a day. 

To the original thrust of the thread. 

MS will NEVER adopt Linux as their kernel.  MS loves control.  They would seek to adopt open source, so they can coopt open source, then close the source.  MS has cooperated with other companies on software before only to get the other company to spend resources.  Arguably Windows 1.0 resulted from MS people getting a look at the Mac.  NT results from MS collaborating with IBM on OS/2.  MS working on open source and Linux related things will inevitably lead to MS trying to win marketshare and DEVELOPERS.  

This is in their DNA even with the new CEO.  They want the Linux developers to make software either for Windows only or for Windows too. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Uttamattamakin
Developers, developers, developers. He was a fun guy that guy.

[Uttamattamakin]

3 minutes ago, Papercut Captain said:

@UttamattamakinBallmer really was something else.

 

He says he loves Linux now and that he and Bill Gates have gone their own paths.    I'm sure he's glad he did now.  

 

Ballmer: I may have called Linux a cancer but now I love it | ZDNet

 

That said. I don't see MS ever giving up on having their own OS and being the big 1000 lb gorilla on the PC without a fight.  They'd create a more *nix like kernel with Windows NT compatibility baked into the core, and a UI that can run any Linux or Unix application.  They'd erase the line between the two and make sure to own the result.  

[a_monospace_odyssey]

aw man, I was hoping I was gonna be able to make a package list of things I'd installed with the manager so that I could easily reinstall things on a fresh install from a secure and verified source.

 

fooled again, oh those lovable microsoft scamps

[ageekhere]

1 hour ago, a_monospace_odyssey said:

aw man, I was hoping I was gonna be able to make a package list of things I'd installed with the manager so that I could easily reinstall things on a fresh install from a secure and verified source.

 

fooled again, oh those lovable microsoft scamps

 Well this will make the list with winget

winget export -o c:\list.txt

Now as far as secure and verified source I guess you could check the download location of the update to see if it is from the package maintainers website.

I guess time will tell if this will be a success.
 

[Bombastinator]

8 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

He says he loves Linux now and that he and Bill Gates have gone their own paths.    I'm sure he's glad he did now.  

 

Ballmer: I may have called Linux a cancer but now I love it | ZDNet

 

That said. I don't see MS ever giving up on having their own OS and being the big 1000 lb gorilla on the PC without a fight.  They'd create a more *nix like kernel with Windows NT compatibility baked into the core, and a UI that can run any Linux or Unix application.  They'd erase the line between the two and make sure to own the result.  

Linux doesn’t need PC.  They could let it drop and not care.  The only reason they even make stuff that is compatible for it is there are a lot of them around.  Linux runs on pretty much anything.

[starry]

If i refuse to use snap I definitely wont use this. I have a thumb drive full of installers for the most stable versions of the only windows software I use, and that's all I need, but like people have said, this is for windows power users. I do not actually "use" windows I just run games on it.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Linux doesn’t need PC.  They could let it drop and not care.  The only reason they even make stuff that is compatible for it is there are a lot of them around.  Linux runs on pretty much anything.

QNX does not need to run on phones ... there are so many in car entertainment systems for it to run on.  Linux without an open platform for people to hack on would be dead.  

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

QNX does not need to run on phones ... there are so many in car entertainment systems for it to run on.  Linux without an open platform for people to hack on would be dead.  

Like pi? Or basically anything other than x/86?  M1 macs would be one but apparently Linux isn’t up (yet) on them though I remember seeing reference to It’s being worked on

[topongo]

Well I just love winget, using it only for ten minutes and I already got rid of sooo much junk.

Starting from this:

 

I think that's the first way of getting rid of microsoft edge properly and officially since it was released.

Also the contless apps with a grayed-out "Uninstall" button in the app manager can indeed be uninstalled from winget, like all the useless XBox apps as well as "Your Phone", "Windows Maps", "Windows Camera" and other bloat of that sort.

 

Just love.

[Gus Pyles]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:58 PM, WolframaticAlpha said:

Have you ever heard of PPA's and arch user repositories? Winget is a hybrid b/w the two of them.

 

Not really. PPAs actually contain signed packages. AUR is a bit closer, but quite often builds from source with various easily available scripts: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=mingw-w64-rust-bin

Winget is literally "download this magical binary executable from an internet address and run it - I promise it's not a virus".

 

On 5/29/2021 at 8:58 PM, WolframaticAlpha said:

> Well implemented package manager is one that has a GUI application called something like "Software store" where you go and find a thing you want installed and click "Install" and then it figures out everything that needs to be done to get that installed and successfully running on your system - including installing the other things it depends on - and just does that. 

 

Swupd and eopkg and countless others don't have a graphical front end. By your definition, they are not package managers.

 

 

That's not what I said, I said "well implemented" - learn to read before making such ridiculous claims.. Solus Linux which uses eopkg also has "Software Center":

 

If Clear Linux does not have a GUI client it is definitely not a particularly good one - but Clear Linux seems to be down at #95 position on distrowatch so not particularly surprising. You could've tried to find a more popular example of an OS which is lacking such basic usability features as a GUI client for their package repositories.
 

[RejZoR]

PortableApps is the best app repository. Verified, most reliable and also portable.

[Gus Pyles]

On 6/3/2021 at 4:03 PM, topongo said:

Well I just love winget, using it only for ten minutes and I already got rid of sooo much junk.

Starting from this:

 

I think that's the first way of getting rid of microsoft edge properly and officially since it was released.

Also the contless apps with a grayed-out "Uninstall" button in the app manager can indeed be uninstalled from winget, like all the useless XBox apps as well as "Your Phone", "Windows Maps", "Windows Camera" and other bloat of that sort.

 

Just love.

 

Powershell:
 

# Run in Administrator PowerShell to get a list of all installed packages, incl. e.g. edge
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Select Name, PackageFullName | Sort-Object -Property Name

# Uninstall a package you don't want via the full name
Remove-AppxPackage Microsoft.BingWeather_4.46.31121.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe

 

And I've found this to be a pretty good tool for that: https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater

 

But hey cool if winget allows this to be done easier now. Though I wonder about how "officially supported" it actually is in the end.

 

Also annoyingly Windows is built so a lot of things supposedly depend on Edge so you might run into issues if you uninstall that heap of trash.

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 hours ago, Lietu said:

 

Not really. PPAs actually contain signed packages. AUR is a bit closer, but quite often builds from source with various easily available scripts: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=mingw-w64-rust-bin

Winget is literally "download this magical binary executable from an internet address and run it - I promise it's not a virus".

 

 

That's not what I said, I said "well implemented" - learn to read before making such ridiculous claims.. Solus Linux which uses eopkg also has "Software Center":

 

If Clear Linux does not have a GUI client it is definitely not a particularly good one - but Clear Linux seems to be down at #95 position on distrowatch so not particularly surprising. You could've tried to find a more popular example of an OS which is lacking such basic usability features as a GUI client for their package repositories.
 

OK, you can make a literal store out of anything. Just because something doesn't have a store at rollout, doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, it might be the only waythat microsoft avoids obsoleting it's store.

 

>Winget is literally "download this magical binary executable from an internet address and run it

All package managers are this(essentially). Unless and until you are using ABS or portage, you are getting a packaged binary over internet(https). I would be shocked if winget is not using the https tunnel. there is a chance of these sources getting compromised, but so can the debian repos. Winget has a higher chance of getting infected packages than other package managers, but your initial argument was not that winget is not a package manager. And that simply is not true.

 

 

But I get you. Microsoft should add an automated vetting process.

[LAwLz]

58 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

OK, you can make a literal store out of anything. Just because something doesn't have a store at rollout, doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, it might be the only waythat microsoft avoids obsoleting it's store.

 

>Winget is literally "download this magical binary executable from an internet address and run it

All package managers are this(essentially). Unless and until you are using ABS or portage, you are getting a packaged binary over internet(https). I would be shocked if winget is not using the https tunnel. there is a chance of these sources getting compromised, but so can the debian repos. Winget has a higher chance of getting infected packages than other package managers, but your initial argument was not that winget is not a package manager. And that simply is not true.

 

 

But I get you. Microsoft should add an automated vetting process.

I think you're misunderstanding what Lietu is saying.

A proper package manager like let's say APT, is not just a program for downloading and running installer files (like winget seems to be doing with a lot of files). It also has to manage versioning, dependencies, update processes as well as other things like security (not talking about HTTP but verification of the packages uploaded to the repo).

Winget seems (from what I've seen) to be very, very basic. If APT is Photoshop, then winget is MS Paint.

 

The reason why Lietu put "package manager" is quotes is probably because winget does very little of what what the commonly used package managers does. Winget does very little of the "manager" part.

[WolframaticAlpha]

So, I tried winget today. It is actually somewhat nice, but has quirks and some kinks and problems.

 

PROS

• Export: I can actually export my lists now. Major boon for setting up.
• Gets actual original packages: One of the biggest problem with the winstore was the shit quality of apps and rip offs. WInget installed actual versions of the packages.
• And most importantly,
• App selection: The ``` winget install <appname> ``` actually worked for a surprising number of things. I installed VLC, Discord, sublime text, slack etc. It also worked for things I wasn't expecting it to. It installed Intellij and goland. And it had Intellij ue, which is honestly very surprising, since I have become used to installing FOSS only software(I use fedora).

 

CONS

• No archiving: It gives unarchived packages
• Old packages: I am running on the latest build, yet it gave me older versions of VLC. Pretty surprising (sublime text also asked for an update, but when does it not?). Discord and slack were new enough
• Not-universal: It included largely used apps only. Some obscure ones that I use were not available(eg doom emacs). But 95% of the apps I do use are readily there.
• Not completely seamless: If I use apt or dnf, then it largely installs app in silence. Winget does open another window and show a UAC prompt, but after that it shuts up. I wish that microsoft implemented something akin to sudo mode in cmd/powershell. 
• Lack of flags

 

 

Verdict: For all windows users, this is a boon. I recommend that you give it a try. It is honestly wonderful. 

[RejZoR]

I'll never understand people who praise console commands over interface just because it's shorter. It's literally reason why I hated using Linux because I thought I was done with stupid BASIC and MS-DOS for good since mid 90's. I don't want to type stupid commands that you need to remember all or perpetually search online for long noodles how to do things. Instead of just knowing where settings are and just naturally follow the categories and settings without actually having to know exact command. That's the whole point of GUI.

 

It's been some 20 years of trying Linux and I hated using it every single moment because of this crap of typing commands. And now finally, after this long time I could finally put Manjaro 21 on my laptop and haven't typed a single letter into Konsole and yet I've downloaded and activated a newer kernel, installed bunch of apps and installed and activated Wayland compositor and fiddled with bunch of settings, all through GUI. Now that's finally a fucking progress and of all distros, freaking Manjaro based on Arch which is anything but user friendly, but they managed to make it user friendly (I like KDE).

 

Why is Microsoft trying to shove this console trash into Windows is thus beyond me. Sure, for admins, who gives a crap, but casual users just need a functional GUI.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

I'll never understand people who praise console commands over interface just because it's shorter. It's literally reason why I hated using Linux because I thought I was done with stupid BASIC and MS-DOS for good since mid 90's

I'll never understand people who have different options to perform a similar task but vehemently wants all other options they don't use to be removed even if other people prefer the later

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

I'll never understand people who have different options to perform a similar task but vehemently wants all other options they don't use to be removed even if other people prefer the later

Console commands used to be the only way to do things at all there was no GUI

 

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I'll never understand people who praise console commands over interface just because it's shorter. It's literally reason why I hated using Linux because I thought I was done with stupid BASIC and MS-DOS for good since mid 90's. I don't want to type stupid commands that you need to remember all or perpetually search online for long noodles how to do things. Instead of just knowing where settings are and just naturally follow the categories and settings without actually having to know exact command. That's the whole point of GUI.

 

It's been some 20 years of trying Linux and I hated using it every single moment because of this crap of typing commands. And now finally, after this long time I could finally put Manjaro 21 on my laptop and haven't typed a single letter into Konsole and yet I've downloaded and activated a newer kernel, installed bunch of apps and installed and activated Wayland compositor and fiddled with bunch of settings, all through GUI. Now that's finally a fucking progress and of all distros, freaking Manjaro based on Arch which is anything but user friendly, but they managed to make it user friendly (I like KDE).

 

Why is Microsoft trying to shove this console trash into Windows is thus beyond me. Sure, for admins, who gives a crap, but casual users just need a functional GUI.

The issue is a classic one: speed vs learning curve.

it used to be that console commands were the only thing that existed.  There was no GUI.  GUI was invented by xerox and ripped off by Apple who were then ripped off by microsoft. 
All a GUI usually does is convert GUI actions TO console commands.  It’s all it’s ever done. The earliest text editor I know of for Unix was VI. It used lots of different two letter commands and didnt need a pointing device at all.  You just typed.  VI had a learning curve that was both tall and steep though. Then came emacs and there were interminable arguments about which was better.  You could do things on enacts for which there were no console commands, but if a person had already gone through the learning curve to use VI it was still a lot faster for them to do things.  They could get more work done in a day and make more money.  For the people who learned on emacs the reverse was true.  Devices with a shallower learning curve often are not quite as tall.  After the learning curve was done quite often (but not always as shown by vi/emacs) the height is lower so the thing with the shallow curve cannot reach the level of proficiency of the sharper curve thing ever.  Microsoft word took this and made a program that would do both.  You could use a gui and get started quickly, AND also use console commands to drastically speed up frequent workloads.  Linux was created originally as console only.  The GUIs are add-ons. KDE (a port of CDE and what microsoft used to get around the Apple lawsuit) is one.  GNOME is another.  There are probably more.  Those are the two Linux GUIs I have used myself.  Might it be possible to create an OS that didn’t even HAVE console commands but ONLY buttons? I don’t know.  There might even already be one.  It for sure isn’t Linux or MacOS.  Probably not Windows or iOS either.

 

Would it be faster? I don’t know.  I doubt it.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Bombastinator

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

I'll never understand people who have different options to perform a similar task but vehemently wants all other options they don't use to be removed even if other people prefer the later

Who ever said we want anything removed? This is literally always shit people start saying when you say you want something to be more user friendly.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I wish that microsoft implemented something akin to sudo mode in cmd/powershell. 

Run As Administrator

[Forbidden Wafer]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Run As Administrator

Does that work? I thought ShellRunas from SysInternal's was necessary.