Apple Silicon chips for Macbook Pro, Mac Pro with up to 40 cores

[sounds]

Summary

1. Apple Silicon Macbook Pro could launch as early as "Summer 2021." 16 inch model (J316) and 14 inch Macbook Pro (J314) rumored to have 4 thunderbolt ports and upgraded CPU: "Jade C-Chop" and "Jade C-Die"
2. Apple Silicon Macbook Air: rumored to have a CPU very similar to M1, but faster, code named "Staten"
3. Apple Silicon "Low End" 13 inch Macbook Pro: rumored to also use "Staten" CPU
4. Apple Silicon Mac Pro rumored to "look like a smaller version of the 2019 Mac Pro," have a super-sized CPU: "Jade 2C-Die" and "Jade 4C-Die"
5. Revision to Mac Mini (J374) rumored to get 4 thunderbolt ports and the same CPU as Macbook Pro J316
6. Apple Silicon iMac

Processor rumors:

1. Jade C-Chop: 8 firestorm, 2 icestorm cores, 16 GPU cores, up to 64 GB RAM
2. Jade C-Die: 8 firestorm, 2 icestorm cores, 32 GPU cores, up to 64 GB RAM
3. Jade 2C-Die: 16 firestorm, 4 icestorm cores, 64 GPU cores
4. Jade 4C-Die: 32 firestorm, 8 icestorm cores, 128 GPU cores
5. Staten: all cores the same as M1 except faster, and with 9-10 GPU cores

 

Quotes

Quote

Apple plans to launch the redesigned MacBook Pros in 14-inch (code name J314) and 16-inch screen (J316) sizes. They’ll have a redesigned chassis, magnetic MagSafe charger and more ports for connecting external drives and devices. Apple is also bringing back the HDMI port and SD card slot, which it nixed in previous versions, sparking criticism from photographers and the like.

 

My thoughts

I'm pretty excited for when benchmarks are released of the 40-core Jade 4C-Die.

 

Sources

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-18/apple-readies-macbook-pro-macbook-air-revamps-with-faster-chips

https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/18/40-core-mac-pro-high-end-mac-mini-in-development/

[ShinRamen]

Space grey or riot 

[sounds]

13 minutes ago, ShinRamen said:

Space grey or riot 

Haha ah ... sob.

[TheReal1980]

1. Jade C-Die: 8 firestorm, 2 icestorm cores, 32 GPU cores, up to 64 GB RAM

This one on a 14 or 16 inch would be fantastic. That is 4 times the GPU cores, double the CPU cores? If they can make the GPU powerful enough compared to what people with Windows PCs have, with some top dedicated GPUs, then Apple will turn the whole industry on it's head.

They should make it without active cooling as well just to piss off the competition (if it could be possible somehow).

 

We live in a special time...

[avg123]

after apple silicon mac pro is released transition will be completed?

[Curufinwe_wins]

That sounds pretty dope, really interested to see how they will handle interconnect at higher sizes. Ring/mesh/whatever.

[suicidalfranco]

If you keep repeating the same rumour over and over,  eventually it will be right

[Ashleyyyy]

that's to be expected to be honest. Apple needed something that rivals the super high end, so chips that match the core i9's and ryzen 9's of the world should be expected. 

[Lightwreather]

10 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

 core i9's and ryzen 9's of the world should be expected. 

More like the Xeons and the Threadrippers

[TheReal1980]

12 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

that's to be expected to be honest. Apple needed something that rivals the super high end, so chips that match the core i9's and ryzen 9's of the world should be expected. 

I wonder if they just want to match it or go "all in"?

[Ashleyyyy]

1 hour ago, TheReal1980 said:

I wonder if they just want to match it or go "all in"?

probably all in. they'll want to offer a compelling upgrade over existing intel systems. if the new one's aren't faster then why would anyone buy them?

[rcmaehl]

Called... some of it? 

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1320954-potential-apple-d1-cpu-leak-shows-performance-lead-over-flagship-ryzen-desktop-chips/

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

4 hours ago, sounds said:

• Jade 2C-Die: 16 firestorm, 4 icestorm cores, 64 GPU cores
• Jade 4C-Die: 32 firestorm, 8 icestorm cores, 128 GPU cores

No RAM specification?

 

I've been speculating that not all Apple Silicon Macs will be locked down and soldered like the M1 is, and this might prove it. Realistically, if Apple wants to compete with themselves, they have to have at least 1.5TB of RAM on the Mac Pro they already committed to transition to ARM. Tim Cook is an economies of scale guy, and he knows that having a specific "M1Z" or "D1" chip for every possible RAM configuration for the Mac Pro would be such a waste of money. It may be locked down to Apple-approved vendor ram (even though they would've been able to do this with Intel like Dell, HP, and other tier ones do on their low-end systems), but it will have expandable memory.

 

I just wonder if these CPUs will be socketed. There's no way the base model Mac Pro will have only a 32-core option when the 2019 (and the speculated 2021) model will have less than half base. And again, on a machine where there is little money to be made, sockets make a lot of sense. An Apple "D1" and "D1X" and "D1Z" that all support the same socket would save Apple money from having to design and make a soldered motherboard for each Mac Pro. I wonder if Apple is a PGA or LGA type of chip vendor. I would assume LGA so people who already work on Mac Pro don't get confused.

 

One thing that is a bit shocking is the fact that these SOCs have GPU cores on them. I assumed Apple was gonna go PCIe for GPUs in the Mac Pro? It would make all the sense in the world, since the same dGPU can be resold into an eGPU enclosure and work on the MacBook Pro 13" and the Mac mini.

 

But the fact that these are all on Firestorm means that the majority of these devices will come out before the A15 comes out, since A15 will most likely move to a different core on 3nm. So we could be seeing a lot of these devices by the end of the year, if not at WWDC (and they'll definitely have time this year since I'd wager that most of the operating system updates are going to be minor since they were pretty major last year). Hopefully, though, after M1, the Mac gets a specific core instead of just using the same ones the iPhones use. It seems like for the start of the transition, Apple played it safe, only just retooling an A14X with some x86 extensions for faster translations, and focusing on the software experience (part of the reason why iPad runs on M1 now is because M1 = A14X. It's literally just a marketing decision). I would hope that once we get to M2 and M3, Apple actually lives up to their promise of having "Mac specific silicon", and doing it down to the core layout.

 

The ASi transition is definitely kicking off a very intriguing decade for Apple and the Mac...

[Sauron]

55 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

probably all in. they'll want to offer a compelling upgrade over existing intel systems. if the new one's aren't faster then why would anyone buy them?

The Intel systems aren't all that fast relatively speaking though. They could theoretically offer a meaningful upgrade without necessarily blowing out the market.

5 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

No RAM specification?

 

I've been speculating that not all Apple Silicon Macs will be locked down and soldered like the M1 is, and this might prove it.

...or they could offer a couple of soldered memory options for each chip.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

Just now, Sauron said:

...or they could offer a couple of soldered memory options for each chip.

M1 (and every Apple Silicon device for that matter) has RAM directly soldered to the SOC. Lets say the Mac Pro keeps its 7 memory configurations, and then also has 3 SOC configurations. That is now 21 possible configurations of a product that Apple has to make for a computer that probably doesn't sell more than 10 units per day worldwide.

 

Or they could have 3 separate motherboards and then buy off the shelf RAM. There's a reason why the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro don't have soldered RAM.

[Sauron]

8 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

M1 (and every Apple Silicon device for that matter) has RAM directly soldered to the SOC. Lets say the Mac Pro keeps its 7 memory configurations, and then also has 3 SOC configurations. That is now 21 possible configurations of a product that Apple has to make for a computer that probably doesn't sell more than 10 units per day worldwide.

They could just axe most of those options and assume that if you want the 32 core chip you probably also want either 64 or 128GB of ram. Not that I would like that but I don't think it would be that weird.

9 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Or they could have 3 separate motherboards and then buy off the shelf RAM. There's a reason why the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro don't have soldered RAM.

That would make sense but it also would for laptops and mac minis. Apple prefers things that are not user upgradable; it's just a matter of whether they believe they can pull it off here. And this time they don't really have to worry about people going for a hackintosh instead...

[BuckGup]

So if the previous thread about miniLED MacBook Pros is to believed these will have the same screens as before potentially. Which would be sorta embarrassing honestly for 2021 on a premium device 

[sounds]

For the Mac Pro, I'll speculate -

 

RAM has to be in the same package as the CPU to feed all those GPU cores.

 

However, since the split between firestorm/icestorm cores works so well, maybe Apple sets up NUMA domains for RAM that's on-chip vs. off-chip.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

They could just axe most of those options and assume that if you want the 32 core chip you probably also want either 64 or 128GB of ram. Not that I would like that but I don't think it would be that weird.

That would be such a downgrade from the Mac Pro 2019, since they heavily advertised the fact that it could hold 1.5TB of RAM.

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

That would make sense but it also would for laptops and mac minis. Apple prefers things that are not user upgradable; it's just a matter of whether they believe they can pull it off here. And this time they don't really have to worry about people going for a hackintosh instead...

Well in the laptops there's a space advantage. The only time in recent memory that Apple hasn't made a device thinner after killing expandability would be with the 2014 Mac mini (because remember, the M1 Mac mini is a direct upgrade for that specific SKU. Not the 2018 Mac mini that they still sell alongside it. Partly the reason why the M1 Mac mini is in silver and not in space gray, I consider at least.) You could make the argument that many people that would buy the MacBook Air, for instance, would prefer a thinner laptop over one with upgradable RAM or storage. You cannot make this assumption for the Mac Pro. Number one, people who buy a Mac Pro expect some expandability. Even the 2013 trash can Mac Pro was expandable. And number two, it's as big as shit. Even if they half the size, that will only make it the size of a standard ATX case.  If they don't do socketed RAM for the Mac Pro and charge up the ass for RAM like they do now, or kill expandability, you bet your ass people who seriously use the 2019 Mac Pro will upgrade to the rumored Intel 2021 Mac Pro and then fail to ever make the jump to ASi, possibly leaving to Linux or Windows once their Intel machines go EOL.

 

And it would literally cost Apple so much more to do everything in package. I could see Apple making a special DIMM that only works on Apple computers, and locking out other DIMMs from working in an Apple motherboard, I could not see them making a SOC for each ram configuration on the Mac Pro.

26 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So if the previous thread about miniLED MacBook Pros is to believed these will have the same screens as before potentially. Which would be sorta embarrassing honestly for 2021 on a premium device 

Most laptops are still LCD... 

 

OLED has not gotten mass adoption in the prosumer laptop space, and probably wont for a while. If they just increase the brightness and the DPI of their already above-average screens, I don't think it will be "embarrassing". It's not like the notch where every other company has moved passed it.

 

You're acting like every laptop is miniLED already and Apple is 10 years behind, and if they are then I must've missed a press release or two...

[BuckGup]

8 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

OLED has not gotten mass adoption in the prosumer laptop space, and probably wont for a while. If they just increase the brightness and the DPI of their already above-average screens, I don't think it will be "embarrassing". It's not like the notch where every other company has moved passed it.

 

You're acting like every laptop is miniLED already and Apple is 10 years behind, and if they are then I must've missed a press release or two...

No it's the fact Apple has been using the same screen since 2015 with the only update being slightly smaller but still big as shit bezels

[hishnash]

6 hours ago, TheReal1980 said:

1. Jade C-Die: 8 firestorm, 2 icestorm cores, 32 GPU cores, up to 64 GB RAM

This one on a 14 or 16 inch would be fantastic. That is 4 times the GPU cores, double the CPU cores? If they can make the GPU powerful enough compared to what people with Windows PCs have, with some top dedicated GPUs, then Apple will turn the whole industry on it's head.

A 32Core Apple GPU (assuming they keep the clock speed etc the same as the M1) will provide about 10.4 TFlops of FP32 that is a little bit more than the desktop 2080. What is impressive is that will likely draw under 30W !!  Cant do that without active cooling but can do it with very quite cooling in a rather thin enclosure.

 

8 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

That would be such a downgrade from the Mac Pro 2019, since they heavily advertised the fact that it could hold 1.5TB of RAM.

Apple have patents for multi tier memory were some is on the package and some is off package, effectively the on package memory runs as a L3/L4 cache when you install off package memory. Remember this on package memory is a lot faster than DDR4 (or even DDR5) as apple will be using HBM2 to provide the bandwidth needed for the GPU.

 

 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, sounds said:

For the Mac Pro, I'll speculate -

 

RAM has to be in the same package as the CPU to feed all those GPU cores.

 

However, since the split between firestorm/icestorm cores works so well, maybe Apple sets up NUMA domains for RAM that's on-chip vs. off-chip.

 

Who knows. Personally I'm of the opinion that Apple won't be able to sell a Mac Pro that can't be upgraded. See the Trashcan Mac Pro.

 

That leaves three possibilities:

1. CPU/GPU SoC, but off-chip memory

2. CPU/GPU SoC, but on-chip memory in 64GB

3. Multi-SoC, off-chip memory controller

 

Like It's not unreasonable to have 64GB, today. But considering that you could get 1.5TB on a Intel Mac Pro, that doesn't bode well for configurations that need that much memory.

 

Like, in Intel systems that have two CPU's, usually the RAM is interleaved on the MB (A/B) so adding memory to all channels without the second CPU won't work, and the memory channels have to be populated in a specific order. So it's not unreasonable to have two SoC's where the first SoC has 64GB, and uses half the memory slots on the MB, and the second SoC has 64GB, and uses the other half of the memory slots. Or the memory slots can be all left unpopulated and you max out 128GB.

 

Then again, I think the standard configuration for the Mac Pro probably should be a 128GB configuration, since that's the maximum configuration of a non-Xeon Intel CPU.

 

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

 

Who knows. Personally I'm of the opinion that Apple won't be able to sell a Mac Pro that can't be upgraded. See the Trashcan Mac Pro.

I agree, however they do need to have fast high bandwidth and low latency memory on the SoC package for the GPU/NPU. So these rumers are from the supply chain and people having seeing pre-production SoC packages not entire systems. It is very possible that apple is using the on package memory as a form of L3/L4 cache when you have off package memory attached (but that off package memory might not be DDR it could be something more like intel's Optane that is a very low latency SSD with very high write endurance.
 

4 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

OLED has not gotten mass adoption in the prosumer laptop space, and probably wont for a while. If they just increase the brightness and the DPI of their already above-average screens, I don't think it will be "embarrassing". It's not like the notch where every other company has moved passed it.

OLED uses a LOT more power (and thus produces a lot more heat) than a good LCD when very bright. And its burn in rate (to the point that it drops in colour accuracy) is very fast. So is not at all useable in professional laptops unless you expect to replace it every year or always run with 200nits full screen.

 

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Who knows. Personally I'm of the opinion that Apple won't be able to sell a Mac Pro that can't be upgraded. See the Trashcan Mac Pro.

The 2013 trash can Mac Pro was actually very upgradable. CPU, RAM, SSD, and GPU were all replaceable and upgradable in theory. There just wasn't an upgrade path because of the diminutive form factor causing cooling issues, especially with the dual GPUs they thought would take off but never did.

 

I assume that's part of the reason why the 2019 Mac Pro had it's cooling system so overly engineered.

[Kisai]

44 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

The 2013 trash can Mac Pro was actually very upgradable. CPU, RAM, SSD, and GPU were all replaceable and upgradable in theory. There just wasn't an upgrade path because of the diminutive form factor causing cooling issues, especially with the dual GPUs they thought would take off but never did.

 

I assume that's part of the reason why the 2019 Mac Pro had it's cooling system so overly engineered.

That doesn't mean it was upgradable, just easy to field-repair.