Tesla suspends purchases using Bitcoin citing energy concerns

[Sauron]

I don't believe for a second Musk's concern is genuine, he's just riding the wave of frustration with cryptos for clout and probably doing some insider trading on the side. Bitcoin was just as wasteful a year ago as it is today.

[Jet_ski]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Hell, I own BTC and ETH and I still am critical of cryptocurrency.

Fair enough. I should have been clearer. I don't know if there is a term for them but I was referring to the crypto-pumpers: those people who are constantly promoting cryptos to no end.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Jet_ski said:

Fair enough. I should have been clearer. I don't know if there is a term for them but I was referring to the crypto-pumpers: those people who are constantly promoting cryptos to no end.

Yes there is a certain crowd who does that. They're no different from any other group pushing something, like stocks (GME for example).

[Nowak]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Are these claims true? Maybe. Maybe not. But his wealth right now is largely the result of his own hard work, ingenuity, and ability at seeing a good deal in terms of merging/selling/buying into good companies.

Nobody "earns" a billion dollars.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, Nowak said:

Nobody "earns" a billion dollars.

Okay, so you're anti-capitalist then.

 

That's okay. But now we're talking about a difference of world philosophy instead of facts.

 

Whether you think anyone deserves to be a billionaire or not, Musk certainly worked hard for his. Could others do the same under the same circumstances? Yes, some. Not most though,

[inw90]

The blame is misdirected. If you want to blame somebody for the high energy use, blame the Fed and Washington D.C. for wholesale counterfeiting and weaponizing the US dollar and banking system.

 

Instead of allowing free commerce and equal access, the Fed counterfeits dollars on a wholesale scale and Washington D.C. uses the coercive power of government to force banks to freeze (steal) funds and deny services to certain individuals.

 

Proof-of-work is the best we can do right now to ensure that there's equal access and no counterfeiting. Not one bitcoin has been counterfeited. You can't say that about dollars.

 

It is entirely insincere to criticize the energy use dedicated to ensuring BTC is not counterfeited while ignoring the immense cost of funding US Marshalls and the US Navy to work against counterfeiters of US currency and any middle eastern dictatorships who might reduce demand for dollars by selling oil for something other than dollars.

 

There's some very uncomfortable truthiness  in the post above so save it before it gets deleted by mods for some fake reason like "trolling."

[Its Bork]

11 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Okay, so you're anti-capitalist.

 

That's okay. But now we're talking about a difference of world philosophy instead of facts.

 

Whether you think anyone deserves to be a billionaire or not, Musk certainly worked hard for his. Could others do the same under the same circumstances? Yes, some. Not most though,

Could others have done what? Buy up already successful companies using the money you were basically born with because your parents literally own an emerald mine in Africa that used apartheid labor?

 

This man has never done anything. All he does is throw money at the wall and see what sticks. He bought PayPal, he bought Tesla, he buys everything and then takes credit for it all. 

 

Tesla employees over 70,000 people but not once in their salivating circle jerk do Tesla fans ever give those people credit. It is always as if the innovation was born directly out of Elon musk's penis.

 

Imagine being born on third base and thinking you hit a home run and convincing millions of people it was a grand slam.

[Master Delta Chief]

12 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Whether you think anyone deserves to be a billionaire or not, Musk certainly worked hard for his. Could others do the same under the same circumstances? Yes, some. Not most though,

'worked hard'. Yeah right... Billionaires like him didn't work hard considering they just inherit their money or in worst cases steal it from people. 

[Bombastinator]

12 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Okay, so you're anti-capitalist then.

 

That's okay. But now we're talking about a difference of world philosophy instead of facts.

 

Whether you think anyone deserves to be a billionaire or not, Musk certainly worked hard for his. Could others do the same under the same circumstances? Yes, some. Not most though,

He’s done more positive things than some.  There are billionaires in the world that are mostly just wastes of space.

[suicidalfranco]

funny how those who build nothing and contribute nothing to the world are always the ones criticizing those who achieve in life.

Not a fan of Tesla, both the company and the products, but the man behind it all deserves all the praise for building it and make it successfull

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, Its Bork said:

This man has never done anything. All he does is throw money at the wall and see what sticks. He bought PayPal, he bought Tesla, he buys everything and then takes credit for it all. 

His first company was funded through angel investors (dot com boom).  He is apparently pretty decent at coding, and has a physics degree...so he is far from never doing anything.  He can actually understand and have more useful thoughts (at least to an extent) on some of the things he does.

 

To be clear, he didn't buy PayPal, his competing company merged with them and from there he helped partially fund it.

He didn't buy Tesla, he helped fund it initially and he was the one who allowed them to get as much funding as they did (having invested most of his own liquid assets at the time).  Had he not done that, Tesla would have failed and not existed.

 

In general to those who say he doesn't give credits or takes it fall for himself, see this quote

Quote

“I’m the chief engineer of the thing,” SpaceX CEO Elon Musk told CBS during a Tuesday interview. “So, I just like to say if it goes right, it’s credit to the SpaceX and NASA team.”

But if anything “goes wrong, it’s my fault,” he added. “There’s thousands of things that can go wrong and only one thing that can go right.”

 

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, Its Bork said:

Could others have done what? Buy up already successful companies using the money you were basically born with because your parents literally own an emerald mine in Africa that used apartheid labor?

Again the mine thing is unsubstantiated, especially the part about apartheid labour. Maybe his father did own said mine. That doesn’t prove he got rich from it nor that Elon benefited substantially from it either. 

3 hours ago, Its Bork said:

This man has never done anything.

Patently false. 

3 hours ago, Its Bork said:

All he does is throw money at the wall and see what sticks. He bought PayPal, he bought Tesla, he buys everything and then takes credit for it all. 

I’m not going to go through them all as others have already proven this wrong. 

3 hours ago, Its Bork said:

Tesla employees over 70,000 people but not once in their salivating circle jerk do Tesla fans ever give those people credit. It is always as if the innovation was born directly out of Elon musk's penis.

This is a weird statement all together. I know lots of people - myself included - that give Tesla employees and engineers lots of credit for what they’ve done. 

3 hours ago, Its Bork said:

Imagine being born on third base and thinking you hit a home run and convincing millions of people it was a grand slam.

At best he was born on first base, with a relatively middle class upbringing. No he didn’t come from poverty slums, but his family weren’t millionaires or billionaires. 

2 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

'worked hard'. Yeah right... Billionaires like him didn't work hard considering they just inherit their money or in worst cases steal it from people. 

He didn’t inherent or steal his money. He earned it by creating his first company, selling it, creating more companies, merging those with competitors then selling them, etc. 
 

You don’t have to like the man but pretending he has no impact in why his companies are successful just makes you look like a bitter jealous person. 
 

Tesla would not be here without him, as he was willing to sink a LOT of his own private money into getting them off the ground. 
 

Same with SpaceX. It was initially funded with his private money. 
 

There would be no Falcon 9 without him. Does that mean he engineered and built the entire thing single handed? Fuck no. But he was still crucial in making it happen. 

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

funny how those who build nothing and contribute nothing to the world are always the ones criticizing those who achieve in life.

Not a fan of Tesla, both the company and the products, but the man behind it all deserves all the praise for building it and make it successfull

Youre not wrong but there’s a loophole.   A fat bank account does not necessarily actually equate with achievement or human worth.  A lot of people don’t understand the advantage level that a wealthy upbringing gives.  It’s massive.  I had a grandmother who had a gold medal i. Swimming.  It wasn’t an Olympic gold medal though.  She wasn’t the worlds fastest swimmer, she was just the yacht club’s fastest swimmer.  A big big difference. There has been a push to equate monetary worth with value as a person for multiple hundred years.  This is usually pushed by the hereditary wealthy because it makes them look better than they are.  When people say billionaires can’t have earned every penny in the traditional way.  There is an argument for this specifically because it says billionaire not millionaire.  Remember a billion is a thousand million.  It doesn’t nearly mean rich it means a particular and exceptionally rarified level of rich.  It’s hard to be lucky without also being good, but to be a billionaire you have to be both.  Perhaps that luck is merely being born a Rockefeller or something.  But as the saying goes it’s better to be lucky than good. 
 

Musk has had a greater part in his financial success that a lot of other billionaires.  Many people who refer to themselves as “self made” aren’t. They may not even themselves realize that.  There’s a movie called “metropolitan” that goes into the concept of “downward mobility” downward mobility is terrifying.  There’s a certain hopelessness to it that sufferers are desperate to avoid.  Paris Hilton talks about it to some extent.  To the lengths she went to to avoid it.  Keep in mind that Paris Hilton was born so wealthy she never needed to lift a finger.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Fasterthannothing]

5 hours ago, Its Bork said:

Could others have done what? Buy up already successful companies using the money you were basically born with because your parents literally own an emerald mine in Africa that used apartheid labor?

 

This man has never done anything. All he does is throw money at the wall and see what sticks. He bought PayPal, he bought Tesla, he buys everything and then takes credit for it all. 

 

Tesla employees over 70,000 people but not once in their salivating circle jerk do Tesla fans ever give those people credit. It is always as if the innovation was born directly out of Elon musk's penis.

 

Imagine being born on third base and thinking you hit a home run and convincing millions of people it was a grand slam.

I think I can sum this up in 1 quote from the YouTuber Whistlindiesel

 

Quote

Hustle till they say it's daddy's money

Just because someone is rich doesn't mean they didn't work for it.

 

[suicidalfranco]

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

A fat bank account does not necessarily actually equate with achievement or human worth

It doesn't but in musks case it's warranted.

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 A lot of people don’t understand the advantage level that a wealthy upbringing gives.

Middle class

Didn't get where he got with his parents money,but through actual entrepreneurship and risk taking decisions

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

There has been a push to equate monetary worth with value as a person for multiple hundred years.  This is usually pushed by the hereditary wealthy because it makes them look better than they are.  When people say billionaires can’t have earned every penny in the traditional way.  There is an argument for this specifically because it says billionaire not millionaire.

And now there is constant drive to deny those who got at the top their accomplishment with a sprinkle of their accumulated wealth should be stripped from them because reasons. And also getting demonised

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 It’s hard to be lucky without also being good, but to be a billionaire you have to be both.  Perhaps that luck is merely being born a Rockefeller or something.  But as the saying goes it’s better to be lucky than good. 

Sure, but it's a gamble that majority of people wouldn't take if given the choice. Immagine giving random Joe the option between risking is house by selling it to fund an idea that has no warranty of giving you back the same amount to buy back your house ++plus greater returns, and just keeping the house and carry on with his live as is.

That's what defines risk takers, PayPal was a risk (dotcom bubble crash era), investing in a never heard of car brand who's gimmick was running on battery was a risk, buying a solar panel company who was failing is a risk, building a private space company in a sector dominated by government owned agencies is a risk, and entering the isp segment with a technology that has always been considered as the last option you should opt for because of the restrictions of that technology is a risk.

Everything he started could have easily failed for good reasons, but his drive and his decisions are what made them actually successful.

 

And rockfeller deserves all the praise

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Immagine giving random Joe the option between risking is house by selling it to fund an idea that has no warranty of giving you back the same amount to buy back your house ++plus greater returns, and just keeping the house and carry on with his live as is.

Man, at least here in my country keeping the house would itself be exactly that business idea with high returns. In a single year the average price increase in the city I live in went up by 31%. If I could I'd buy, more than one, house and rent them and I'd personally be laughing all the way to the bank (as is happening). Never mind all those non home owners income year over year getting even more outstripped by house price increases.

 

Current risk, interest rate increase.

[Bombastinator]

41 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

It doesn't but in musks case it's warranted.

Middle class

Didn't get where he got with his parents money,but through actual entrepreneurship and risk taking decisions

And now there is constant drive to deny those who got at the top their accomplishment with a sprinkle of their accumulated wealth should be stripped from them because reasons. And also getting demonised

Sure, but it's a gamble that majority of people wouldn't take if given the choice. Immagine giving random Joe the option between risking is house by selling it to fund an idea that has no warranty of giving you back the same amount to buy back your house ++plus greater returns, and just keeping the house and carry on with his live as is.

That's what defines risk takers, PayPal was a risk (dotcom bubble crash era), investing in a never heard of car brand who's gimmick was running on battery was a risk, buying a solar panel company who was failing is a risk, building a private space company in a sector dominated by government owned agencies is a risk, and entering the isp segment with a technology that has always been considered as the last option you should opt for because of the restrictions of that technology is a risk.

Everything he started could have easily failed for good reasons, but his drive and his decisions are what made them actually successful.

 

And rockfeller deserves all the praise

This has actually happened with San Fransisco real estate.  It’s a big mess and they have a gigantic homeless problem they basically made for themselves. Now apparently a lot of people there are moving to the lowest cost lowest fee places they can find.  I predict a bunch of absentee landlords.  

[Maticks]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:05 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Except in a pump and dump scheme you don't state that you will be holding onto the item in question (which they have stated as their intended plan)...if it was a pump and dump, I don't think they would be dumb enough to tank the stock prior to selling out of it.

 

Well electric cars overall have a smaller footprint than ICE vehicles.  Even if using coal as a source, as the scale of coal plants allow them to scrub more than gas.  More power stations will migrate to renewables as well, as the push to become green becomes more important.

 

As for bitcoin, it will tend to go to the cheaper power which typically isn't green yet.  With that said though, bitcoin is primarily mined in China at the moment which gets power from coal (66%).  As of today the estimate is 149 tWh of electricity as the estimated number (but the upper bound of 514 tWh) [https://cbeci.org/].  That's about 1986 full charges, or the equivalent of 494680 miles per day....or about 17,000 vehicles (based on average) daily drive.

 

To put it in perspective, based on the average a Tesla consumes about 8.8kWh per day.  A tuned 3060TI apparently runs at 115W (without power loss via the power supply), for 24h a day.  That's 2.76 kWh per day per card, so to answer your question about a 4 3060TI mining rig would equal the average driving.  (Untuned it's about 4.6kWh/day, so only 2 cards needed)

Shouldn't Tesla's response then to Bitcoin mining be shutdown their China Gigafactory in protest to China and its bitcoin mining with Coal and lack of doing anything about the problem with mining in China.

[AndreiArgeanu]

Apparently after this move people got very 'angery' at Elon on twitter. And by people, I mean, frustrated beings who held any amount of bitcoin. I swear, if Elon burps, bitcoin might drop another couple thousand.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Apparently after this move people got very 'angery' at Elon on twitter. And by people, I mean, frustrated beings who held any amount of bitcoin. I swear, if Elon burps, bitcoin might drop another couple thousand.

As someone who just started mining on his old as hell 290X's specifically to fund a GPU upgrade I'm very pissed off with him lol

 

Jokes aside I literally did start that hours before he did this 

[cj09beira]

45 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Apparently after this move people got very 'angery' at Elon on twitter. And by people, I mean, frustrated beings who held any amount of bitcoin. I swear, if Elon burps, bitcoin might drop another couple thousand.

its not surprising, considering its blatant manipulation, no company would invest as much as they did without first looking into what they are investing into, it seemed to be elon just wanting to buy a much more at low prices

 

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

As someone who just started mining on his old as hell 290X's specifically to fund a GPU upgrade I'm very pissed off with him lol

 

Jokes aside I literally did start that hours before he did this 

how are they doing?, i just started up again my 480, to see if it pays for an upgrade as well

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

As someone who just started mining on his old as hell 290X's specifically to fund a GPU upgrade I'm very pissed off with him lol

 

Jokes aside I literally did start that hours before he did this 

Filth smh

 

I cash out often so I'm not hit too bad, just the past four(?) days earnings that's been in there have been affected, about $500

[leadeater]

16 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

how are they doing?, i just started up again my 480, to see if it pays for an upgrade as well

Very slim but net gain. Probably only around $2 profit per day, was about $3 until Elon opened his mouth

 

Edit:

Oh NZD btw

[H713]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:36 AM, freeagent said:

That would depend on how you are charging. Will you be using 120, 240, or 480?

 

 

Doesn't matter. Total energy remains the same. Relatively minor differences in the efficiency of switching converters, but that's probably negligible in this case. 

 

480 might be used for their "super charging" stations (or whatever they call them), but it's so dangerous that you almost never see it in a residential environment. Some housing complexes will have 480, but that doesn't mean they'd run the chargers off of it. Surviving a shock from a 120V supply is not unlikely. 240 is more dangerous, but at 480 the chances of surviving are slim.

[H713]

Whether people want to admit it or not, the energy used for bitcoin mining is a concern, and will be until someone reaches the "break even" point on fusion. Lost of research going on in that area, so there's hope.