NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

[Distinctly Average]

Summary

 An update to England and Wales's contact tracing app has been blocked for breaking the terms of an agreement made with Apple and Google.

 

Quotes

Quote

 

The plan had been to ask users to upload logs of venue check-ins - carried out via poster barcode scans - if they tested positive for the virus. This could be used to warn others.

The update had been timed to coincide with the relaxation of lockdown rules.

But the two firms had explicitly banned such a function from the start.

Under the terms that all health authorities signed up to in order to use Apple and Google's privacy-centric contact-tracing tech, they had to agree not to collect any location data via the software. 

As a result, Apple and Google refused to make the update available for download from their app stores last week, and have instead kept the old version live.

When questioned, the Department of Health declined to discuss how this misstep had occurred.

Scotland has avoided this pitfall because it released a separate product - Check In Scotland - to share venue histories, rather than trying to build the functionality into its Protect Scotland contact-tracing app.

 

 

 

My thoughts

 

I could not care less about this type of privacy on this issue, as long as the data is only used by the NHS and kept secure that way. I can understand Google and Apple on their stance, but for government apps their should probably be more room for negotiation. 

It is a shame the three parts of the UK could not have a single app then maybe we would have lower expenses as well a picking up earlier on issues such as this.

 

Sources

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56713017 

[Zodiark1593]

Even governments need to play by the rules. 

[JoseGuya]

17 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

 

 

I could not care less about this type of privacy on this issue, as long as the data is only used by the NHS and kept secure that way. I can understand Google and Apple on their stance, but for government apps their should probably be more room for negotiation. 

It doesn't matter if the entity is private or public, this kind of data can be leaked and affect a lot of people. Actually, is even worse when is a public entity because compulsion is always an option 

[Kisai]

27 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

 

 

I could not care less about this type of privacy on this issue, as long as the data is only used by the NHS and kept secure that way. I can understand Google and Apple on their stance, but for government apps their should probably be more room for negotiation. 

By design, the covid tracking can not tag identity information, which is what this update would be breaking. There is no wiggle room to change how this works. 

 

This is why every country should have standardized on one app. But noooo, various parts of countries wanted their own medical-system-linked app tied to identity /s. Like here in BC, there is still no covid tracking on any app. If you have the Canada one, it does nothing for you in BC. Like the horse left the barn a year ago on this, if your country couldn't get an app developed and produced last year, you're way too late now.

 

 

[Ashleyyyy]

28 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

I could not care less about this type of privacy on this issue, as long as the data is only used by the NHS and kept secure that way. I can understand Google and Apple on their stance, but for government apps their should probably be more room for negotiation. 

you realize a huge part of Apple's appeal is their respect for the privacy of their users? it would be a huge blow if they simply allow government apps to track location data.

[Mark Kaine]

I think I do understand the privacy concerns,  but how is that app supposed to work without location data?  Like, i thought that's the point,  so you know who had contact with an infected person? 

 

 

I mean,  it could probably work when location is stored only on each device... but still,  serious question, what does such an app actually do and how does it work? 

 

 

 

[The_russian]

46 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I think I do understand the privacy concerns,  but how is that app supposed to work without location data?  Like, i thought that's the point,  so you know who had contact with an infected person? 

 

 

I mean,  it could probably work when location is stored only on each device... but still,  serious question, what does such an app actually do and how does it work? 

 

 

 

As far as I know it uses Bluetooth. The app doesn’t need to know where you are (the location), just if you have been within Bluetooth range of someone who has tested positive.

[Mark Kaine]

1 minute ago, The_russian said:

As far as I know it uses Bluetooth. The app doesn’t need to know where you are (the location), just if you have been within Bluetooth range of someone who has tested positive.

Oh, I see... that makes a lot of sense actually... yeah, i don't see how they need location data or similar then.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

you realize a huge part of Apple's appeal is their respect for the privacy of their users? it would be a huge blow if they simply allow government apps to track location data.

Actually they do allow that, they do not allow it for Apps based on Apple's developed tracing technology. For those Apps their is a design principal you have to follow to utilize that Apple technology, if you do not use that then you can do whatever you like that is allowed under the regular App Store terms and conditions.

 

Our NZ tracing App uses none of the Apple or Google tracing technology and started with only QR Code scanning functionality, and it is a legal requirement for all business to have these on display. Proximity based Bluetooth tagging was added much later. Also you can actually use the App without creating an account, providing your name or any other details and the App itself stores all the data on the device itself for 60 days (was 31)

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-resources-and-tools/nz-covid-tracer-app/privacy-and-security-nz-covid-tracer

[Brooksie359]

With the vaccine being given to people at this point i don't see how useful this would have been anyways. Better to not risk privacy for something like this when it will be useless in a few months anyways. 

[Distinctly Average]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Actually they do allow that, they do not allow it for Apps based on Apple's developed tracing technology. For those Apps their is a design principal you have to follow to utilize that Apple technology, if you do not use that then you can do whatever you like that is allowed under the regular App Store terms and conditions.

 

Our NZ tracing App uses none of the Apple or Google tracing technology and started with only QR Code scanning functionality, and it is a legal requirement for all business to have these on display. Proximity based Bluetooth tagging was added much later. Also you can actually use the App without creating an account, providing your name or any other details and the App itself stores all the data on the device itself for 60 days (was 31)

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-resources-and-tools/nz-covid-tracer-app/privacy-and-security-nz-covid-tracer

We failed here to develop our own app and after wasting a bucket load of money started using the Google/apple tools.

 

My point is that you can develop an app that tracks people and it is allowed on the stores. It is only if it uses this particular tool that it is not allowed. NZ have done a fantastic job on COVID from the start and in developing their own app can track locations using the QR code, which I what the NHS app is not allowed to do here. Yes, I agree it should be stored locally and the NZ app does that well.

[Distinctly Average]

8 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

you realize a huge part of Apple's appeal is their respect for the privacy of their users? it would be a huge blow if they simply allow government apps to track location data.

It is not sending the data. The tracking works with QR codes that you scan at every business. You can choose to share that.

 

At the moment the app really is not working. I know many cases where one person in a household has a positive COVID test and the app installed but nobody else in the same house has been notified of a possible infection. Something needs to change as it is clearly not working.

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

With the vaccine being given to people at this point i don't see how useful this would have been anyways. Better to not risk privacy for something like this when it will be useless in a few months anyways. 

ok, well its not a few months from now, its today, so it would still be useful now.

2 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

If all of these vaccines worked as advertised, which doesn't seem to be the case.

what?

[Distinctly Average]

8 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Even governments need to play by the rules. 

It is still a choice. People can choose to upload the location gained from scanning a QR code at a venue. Nobody is forced to do so. If the government had developed their own app and not used Google/Apple tools then they could do this and still have the app on the respective stores as that does not break rules.

[captain_to_fire]

8 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

you realize a huge part of Apple's appeal is their respect for the privacy of their users? it would be a huge blow if they simply allow government apps to track location data.

As far as I'm concerned, Apple doesn't ban apps that collect personal information (including location) data but to be upfront in the App Store labels on what data do they collect, have an option to opt-out, and be explicit on what are they going to use the data for.

[Brooksie359]

9 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

If all of these vaccines worked as advertised, which doesn't seem to be the case.

I mean they work well enough to stop people from dying in large quantities to covid so it seems to me to work like its supposed to. Does it totally stop you from getting every variant of the virus? No but it doesn't have to when it can lessen the severity of the symptoms when it doesn't block the virus completely. What you think people are really going to be doing contact tracing and 2 weeks of isolation when people are vaccinated? Yeah fat chance on that one. 

[Brooksie359]

7 hours ago, poochyena said:

ok, well its not a few months from now, its today, so it would still be useful now.

what?

No it would do more harm than good to allow a breach in privacy for something that will do little good in terms of combating the virus at this point. It might be different there but where I am anyone can start getting the vaccine already and basically all the at risk people have gotten the vaccine or simply don't plan on getting one which is sad but if they choose to do so then its their own fault when they get sick. 

[Ashleyyyy]

16 hours ago, leadeater said:

Actually they do allow that

yes and no, the user would still get a prompt but i see your point.

[Ashleyyyy]

9 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

It is not sending the data.

is the app open source? if not then you have no idea what it's really doing.

[poochyena]

4 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

The reports I've seen show that some of the vaccines are underperforming (which was kind of expected).

where? 4chan?

 

3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

No it would do more harm than good to allow a breach in privacy for something that will do little good in terms of combating the virus at this point. It might be different there but where I am anyone can start getting the vaccine already and basically all the at risk people have gotten the vaccine or simply don't plan on getting one which is sad but if they choose to do so then its their own fault when they get sick. 

that would be an individuals choice. its not violating privacy if you sign up for it knowing the terms.

[tkitch]

4 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

The reports I've seen show that some of the vaccines are underperforming (which was kind of expected).

 

One of them had the number of required dosis increased from 2 to 4, hoping that it will work...

 

Uhhhh, none of the reliable international news sources I follow have reported any of that.  Got a source?

 

The only possibility of "underperforming" so far is in reference to mutated strains of the Corona, which the Vaccines weren't made to fight (yet.)

 

They're all still "mostly" effective against the strains they've tested so far, but not up to full snuff like they are on the OG Virus.

[tkitch]

3 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Almost, CNN Brasil.

Saying word for word, you won't find that, but why else would you study additional doses and change the interval between them? The Butantan Institute is studying just that for the Sinovac's vaccine. 
Source: https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/saude/2021/04/11/aplicacao-da-3-dose-da-coronavac-e-estudada-diz-diretor-medico-do-butantan

Even chinese officials admitted and suggested mixing vaccines.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-official-says-local-vaccines-031538170.html

Pfizer's vaccine on the other hand seems to be working pretty well, even with a single dose.

 

Ahhh, that's specifically about Sinovac, the Chinese Vaccine.  I'm dubious of their results, as well as the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, as they're both really unlikely to release any real study data out to the world to review.

 

Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and Astra Zenica are all working as originally advertised and haven't changed.  

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

It is not sending the data. The tracking works with QR codes that you scan at every business. You can choose to share that.

 

At the moment the app really is not working. I know many cases where one person in a household has a positive COVID test and the app installed but nobody else in the same house has been notified of a possible infection. Something needs to change as it is clearly not working.

No one cares about COVID anymore in NZ thats why. Thats why they activated the Google + Apple bluetooth activity. 

[poochyena]

23 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

why else would you study additional doses and change the interval between them?

To test the efficiency at different rates. Its not some elaborate conspiracy.

 

24 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Even chinese officials admitted and suggested mixing vaccines.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-official-says-local-vaccines-031538170.html

Thats for their own vaccine, not the moderna, pfizer, or Janssen vaccine.

[tkitch]

27 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

J&J use was interrupted.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-johnson-johnson-va/u-s-pauses-use-of-jj-covid-19-vaccine-over-rare-blood-clots-rollout-delayed-in-europe-idUSKBN2C01BC

Yup, due to a complication that is 1-2:1,000,000 or so.  Similar to how AZ had a complication.

It will be returned to use very soon.