Gaming on PC vs Console.

[OrdinaryPhil]

I've always had both consoles and a PC for gaming. But I must admit that I am using my PC less and less for gaming these days.

This is partly because my Series X is a very competent performer, but I was also happy with my XB1X before this. Most of the games I play are social, meaning I play them with friends, typically in a group of 2 to 4, and I don't think there is any denying that Xbox Live's chat service is super great. PCs are always invasive enough to manage for basic gaming, with each company have it's own launcher (telemetry), and it's own services for "security" to prevent cheating or whatever. What this translate to is that what was once a simple act - installing a game - now involves downloading and installing steam, Epic, uPlay, or whatever other platform... allowing that to plant files all over your system, create scheduled takes, perform constants reads/writes to your drive so it stays up to date while it scans your PC for useful data to sell.

And that doesn't even scratch the surface. To play games socially, you generally need additional apps like Discord just for communication. And half the time the people you play with are using some other platform.

The biggest boon of consoles has been their simplicity - signing into XBL is annoying for sure, and definitely collect telemetry, but it's not like i do anything on the XBox other than game... it's not where you file your taxes FFS.

Now there are some reasons that i do still game on my PC - there are a handful of games that frankly require a keyboard and mouse (the entire RTS genre), and because of that fact, most RTS titles never make it to the consoles anyway, so if you're playing those, you're on the PC regardless.

MMOs have been garbage gambling simulators since 2005 so I'm not playing those, and according the data, neither are very many other people - that genre is in a state of steep decline.

The most frequent argument I hear in favor of PC gaming is the strong modding community - and that's valid, but I have zero interest. I get that it can be funny or novel to play Skyrim as a naked anime character, but I'm not 12 years old anymore, and pixelated boobies just aren't entertaining.

 

Maybe I'm jaded.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Is there something I am really missing here? I feel like my mental math has a lot of checks in the minus column for PC's when it comes to gaming. I'm still a tinkerer at heart, and I'll always be building PCs for some project or other - but I think that gaming is really making a shift to consoles and ... I feel like that's okay. What do you think? Am I making sense or is this troll logic?

 

[jaslion]

Skip logic just get what you like.

 

I game on pc because of convenience because I need a decently strong system for my hobbies/freelance work anyway might as well save some money and game on it too. Got a couple consoles like the wii u and such because they have a lot of fun couch games but other than that mainly pc.

[TheBahrbarian]

I mean plenty of people prefer console gaming over PC, and all of the points you make are most of the reasons they feel that way. I definitely get the convenience and ease of use of my console days with my buddies, but I don't really see myself ever going back unfortunately. 

 

I know a lot of people prefer consoles saying they're cheaper, and while yes the up front cost is definitely less expensive than a mid range PC (which will net you much more performance), I think the cost difference is made up in generally only full price games on console, and the fact that you have to pay for online services (this one always really annoyed me).

 

I also see what you're saying about feeling annoyed with the multiple launchers on PC, I think everyone sees that. But I personally don't find communication any more difficult on PC. Yes, there are multiple services, but I find discord to be pretty much universal these days and any alternatives are free and easy to download. Whereas when I was younger, if I had a buddy who had a PS4, I just simply couldn't play with him.

 

Overall, consoles still seem king for casual couch gaming. There's nothing like picking up a controller when you have a couple buddies over. But I find PCs to be way more adaptable. There are simply more games available, you can use almost any controller, PCs are useful for many other things other than gaming, but you will probably inevitably sink more money into the hobby than you will with console. It comes down to personal need and preference, I think all the points you made are quite fair.

[yeetus the mighty]

On an Xbox, you need a subscribtion to game with others. 5 Years of Xbox live are 600$. For 1100$(Xbox series X+5 years Xbox Live) will get you a great system with accessories.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

17 minutes ago, yeetus the mighty said:

On an Xbox, you need a subscribtion to game with others. 5 Years of Xbox live are 600$. For 1100$(Xbox series X+5 years Xbox Live) will get you a great system with accessories.

Except free games will not need xbl, and a lot of multiplayer (FN, cod warzone, pubg, etc) are free (not saying all, but a lot)

 

 

 

 

To op, your missing the fact that controlers arent as good and keyboard and mouse. For games like fps and 3ps your reactions to something behind you would be much slower unless you jack x sense on controler.

In general, if you game on colsole and rarely use a PC, get a cheeper laptop, and a keyboard and mouse to go with the console. PS4 and xbone I know support it, and I believe xsx/s and ps5 do As well.

[OrdinaryPhil]

33 minutes ago, yeetus the mighty said:

On an Xbox, you need a subscribtion to game with others. 5 Years of Xbox live are 600$. For 1100$(Xbox series X+5 years Xbox Live) will get you a great system with accessories.

A very valid point - I don't want to talk about finances in too much depth since I know that everyone's circumstances are different - but for the sake of this topic what matters is that I am a financially responsible adult; my purchases aren't dictated by mommy and daddy, and I have sufficient income to reasonably afford the very best that either device has to offer.

My work PC is probably about $3,000 in just parts - probably close to $4,500 if you factor in my displays and peripherals. That's approaching 10x the cost of my Series X. Now there are gains for sure. The PC is a bit more performant even though the 1080ti is getting a little long in the tooth, and until I can get my hands on a 3080 there isn't much purpose in upgrading that.

In an apples-to-apples comparison - if I were playing the same game (Let's say For Honor, since that's a title I actively play) my PC can handle it just fine. the game won't look much better than it does on my Series X. In fact, they will look almost the same. I get 60 FPS at 4K on the Series X, and the visual fidelity is great. I could probably get 120FPS at 1440p on my PC, and I'd be able to disable things I don't enjoy like motion blur, but that's about the extent of the gains. Even being in the position where I can afford a nice PC - does that justify 10x the cost?

But enough of me being a brat - I see your point. If someone is in the position where a PC is outside their budget, then consoles obviously make more sense. But I am more concerned about the other things. Every application you install these days is mining your device for PII to monetize. That's not just an invasion of my privacy (which is a pain in the ass to try and combat), but that telemetry isn't magic - it also requires system resources that eat into your performance.

Using the Xbox as an example here - its OS shares a lot with the Windows 10 kernel, but it's hugely pared down. It does collect telemetry, but it doesn't have 20+ years of bloat requires to allow a back-catalogue of software to continue running. It's not trying to be my place of work. You don't see Xbox units in hospitals, or laboratories, or schools, or small businesses. That's because the xbox OS is purpose built - it does 2 things: play games & collect telemetry.

Windows 10 tries to do a million things, and that requires a huge amount of bloat.

 

[OrdinaryPhil]

8 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Except free games will not need xbl, and a lot of multiplayer (FN, cod warzone, pubg, etc) are free (not saying all, but a lot)

 

To op, your missing the fact that controlers arent as good and keyboard and mouse. For games like fps and 3ps your reactions to something behind you would be much slower unless you jack x sense on controler.

In general, if you game on colsole and rarely use a PC, get a cheeper laptop, and a keyboard and mouse to go with the console. PS4 and xbone I know support it, and I believe xsx/s and ps5 do As well.

I'm not missing that fact. I mentioned the input method as it related to RTS titles. I agree - they would be impossible to enjoy on a console.

But as you yourself just said, modern consoles have keyboard & mouse support.

More importantly, since a lot of people on PC use controllers, most games segregate players by input device - this is cross platform. If you are playing with a controller, you are paired with/against other people using a controller. So there is no tangible advantage.

Maybe you just prefer the keyboard & moue - which is absolutely fine. Having a preference isn't a bad thing. I just think it's a stretch to list it as a reason to buy a PC over a console.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

m not missing that fact. I mentioned the input method as it related to RTS titles. I agree - they would be impossible to enjoy on a console.

But as you yourself just said, modern consoles have keyboard & mouse support.

More importantly, since a lot of people on PC use controllers, most games segregate players by input device - this is cross platform. If you are playing with a controller, you are paired with/against other people using a controller. So there is no tangible advantage.

Maybe you just prefer the keyboard & moue - which is absolutely fine. Having a preference isn't a bad thing. I just think it's a stretch to list it as a reason to buy a PC over a console.

That's why is suggested that if you don't play on PC much, just not having a PC, getting a laptop to us for what you need a PC for, do all of you gaming on console wit's kb/m

[OrdinaryPhil]

9 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

That's why is suggested that if you don't play on PC much, just not having a PC, getting a laptop to us for what you need a PC for, do all of you gaming on console wit's kb/m

I feel like this is sort of off topic but... I'm not concerned with value as a proposition. I can afford to game on any device I choose. I'm not choosing between a PC or a console. I have both. I just see myself gaming on the console more and more... and gaming the PC less and less. My assessment thus far, across my previous posts, can be summed up thusly: Using a PC for gaming adds minor performance bumps that I consider to be relatively minor, and incurs a cost in privacy and bloat that I do not consider minor.

I'm also not denigrating anyone for playing on PC - that's a totally valid choice, but there is a reason that the console share of the gaming market is growing at a higher rate than the PC share. Bot are actually growing ATM, but the consoles are growing much, much faster. I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch - I'm just working out why I think this is, since I myself feel pulled in the console direction.

Regarding laptops - I actively dislike them. I can't think of a single reason to own one in favor a PC unless you are actively using it during travel or "on the go" which most people never do.

I worked at a local University of almost a decade, and they slowly replaced all of their desktop units with laptops. The end result was a higher rate of failure and higher costs to replace, and lower performance for everyone. Oh, and a lot of employees taking their devices home for their kids to play with and damage...

[Count Lustig]

6 hours ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

 but the consoles are growing much, much faster. I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch - I'm just working out why I think this is, since I myself feel pulled in the console direction.

Same here. I used to game almost exclusively on PC, but slowly I've started to shift toward consoles (PS4 Pro and PS5 in the future, in my case). Can't really explain why. 

The price of gaming doesn't really matter, although I rarely buy games at full price. 

Mouse+Kb are better at some genres, but playing with a gamepad doesn't ruin the experience. 

 

Maybe it's the simplicity of not dealing with multiple services and the constant feeling of missing some graphical holy grail because my rig isn't top of the line. 

Or maybe the couch is more comfortable. 

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

I don't really play RTS so I can go either way on console vs PC. In the early 90s I gamed on the SNES since DOS gaming wasn't that great. Mid to late 90s I was a straight PC gamer because of all the awesome fps like Doom, Doom II, Quake, Quake 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, etc. Early 2000s built another PC because the GTA games that I was so into looked way better on PC than PS2. Mid 2000s went console again because the XBox 360 was so impressive for the time. Mid 2010s went back to PC since GTX 970 and Xeon E3-1231v3 were such great values to get double console performance, though I did eventually grab a PS4 when they got cheap for the exclusives. Right now I went PS5 because it's so much cheaper than upgrading my PC to that level would have been even before the gpu market got ridiculous. Maybe 2023 if PC starts becoming really good value again like it was in 2014 I'd go back to it being my main gaming platform, if not PS5 has the horsepower to play games at 60 fps for a few years.

[JR1911]

I played exclusively on PC for 25 years but since I got a PS4 Pro in 2017 I've pretty much completely switched over to consoles. I've just come to appreciate the simplicity of console gaming, you just pop in the disc/download the game and start playing, no messing around with drivers, settings etc. Also I prefer to play on my 65" OLED sitting on my couch instead of in front of my computer, it's just way more comfortable and relaxing. I did build a nice gaming rig last December to play Cyberpunk 2077 so I'll always have the option to get a game on PC instead if I so choose and of course there are some type of games that will always be better to play on a PC with a keyboard and mouse. That said, when I played Cyberpunk I quickly had to switch over to a controller as kb + m felt so awkward and clunky to use after only playing with a controller for a few years.

[OrdinaryPhil]

It's good to know I'm not the only one feeling pulled away from PC gaming.

It's not really even the fault of the hardware; a decent PC will out-spec a console, but those specs only sometimes translate into better performance.

IMO, the real benefit of PC gaming is your level of control over the gaming experience. I can choose right balance of visual settings & resolution to suit my needs. An overly-simplified example would something like this:

1- On the same hardware, I could choose to play a game on with all visual settings at Max/Ultra/or whatever word the devs used for "best" at 1080p and get 240 FPS.

2- I could play that same game at 1440p and get 120 or 144 FPS...

3- Or I could play it at 4k, turning most of the settings down, and get 60ish FPS.

The console doesn't really give you these options - it detects your connected display and runs at whatever resolution the developers set - sometimes the resolution adjusts on the fly and creates awful looking artifacts - but dynamic resolution is slowly fading into the past now as console hardware is able to push consistent frame rates at higher resolutions.

Playing Ori and the Will of the Wisps at true 2160p 120Hz on my OLED TV is a genuinely incredible experience - and that's on a console. So what I lose in granular control, I gain in stability. And all that factors in AFTER knowing that using a PC means choose from bad / worse / and worst in terms of OS (Linux / Windwos / Mac). All of them are bloated messes trying to do a milion things in the background that just piss me off. At idle, Linux and Windows are performs THOUSANDS of reads/writes to your disk as it logs OS functions, your inputs, network activity, etc... and there isn't a way to truly disable all of it.

I think that working in InfoSec has ruined me on modern operating systems. I used to love Windows for its ease of use, and how simple it was for the user to control the basic OS functions... then Vista cam out and killed it. Windows 7 was even worse, adding in more telemetry than any other OS, and 8 - 10 are orders of magnitude more invasive.

Linux isn't much better - Ubuntu is now almost as bad as Windows 10 with how much data it collects, and while switching to lighter distros like Xubuntu does help a little... it's still pretty bad. MacOS isn't really worth mentioning here since no one really games on it anyway - but it does do the least data collection, which is a hard thing for me to admit since I generally dislike Apple as a company.

 

At the end of the day, it means that I already have to do a ton of "work" just to keep my daily driven work PC 'locked down' - and that's a full-time job in itself. Managing a second PC and carving out a space for it on its own VLAN just to reduce contamination isn't worth the small boons I get in gaming. Especially when I can just plug the Series X in, give it its own VLAN, and go.

[CreativeName642]

I agree the accessibility of consoles is nice, and you get what you want. This is your entertainment. 

 

However, I prefer PC gaming to console gaming just because of the games I play. Most of them are competitive FPS games or, like you said, games that just can't be played on console. 

And some of them, are just too intense to be played on a controller (things like DOOM Eternal, I get some people can, but I would hate it.)

[AzzaNezz]

You should chose what you like more.People claim PC is master race,which in a way it is.

But if yours friends play same games as you on console and you want to play with them then you chose consoles.

All of my friends play on xbox/ps and so do i.

I regreat that some of rts are not on xbox but still there are games that i play just normaly.

For 300e i play my games on my xbox at 60-120 fps,games are loading super fast,no lag at all.And there is no way i can build a pc for that money.

Xbox live is 60 euros per year.If you put that together in 5 years is 600e for both console and xbox.

Pc would cost much more than that,and you would probably end up upgrading something on pc in that period.

Games are more pricey on consoles,but each week that are sale,so i am able to pickup up games often for 10-25 euros if i want.

 

[King of Memes]

On 3/13/2021 at 5:34 PM, jaslion said:

Skip logic just get what you like.

 

I game on pc because of convenience because I need a decently strong system for my hobbies/freelance work anyway might as well save some money and game on it too. Got a couple consoles like the wii u and such because they have a lot of fun couch games but other than that mainly pc.

wow, u have a wii u! glad im not the only one lol. i actually liked it.

[Commodus]

This makes a lot of sense, and I think it reflects a simple reality: your priorities change as you get older.

 

PC gaming is easier to justify (if you have the budget for it, anyway) in your 20s. You're likely unmarried and childless, possibly still living with your folks, and you don't have much to maintain. You often have gobs of free time, especially these days, and so many of the more annoying parts of PC gaming are tolerable. "Yes, I'll spend an hour trying to get an elaborate voice chat setup working for our three-hour MMO raid, why do you ask?"

 

But then you get hitched (or at least a long-term relationship), maybe have kids. You get a house or condo, and you have a whole range of friends and extended family. It's not just that your time for gaming shrinks from four hours a day to one or two — it's that you get a better sense of how games should fit into your life. I would happily go a week or a month without gaming if it meant being closer to my fiancée.

 

That's when consoles suddenly make a lot of sense.  You don't have to fight with drivers, set up Discord or worry about cheating, you just... play. It makes sure you can squeak some gaming into a busy evening. For that matter, it also makes gaming more of a social occasion in your home; my sweetheart can enjoy watching me play on the couch (and yes, she enjoys it) instead of having to pull up a chair at my desk.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's great if PC gaming still works for you. But I won't fault anyone who switches to consoles as their life evolves.

[Ithanul]

Personally, I play on both.  I like having the ease of choice of just flipping from one to the other (big reason I like games like FH4 that allow saves to work on more than one platform or ones that allow cross-play).

 

There some games I want to play on my 55" TV and the console just simple to use with it.  Plus, I tend to use my console as cheapo multi media machines for playing the music and movies as well.

 

When I want more of my city building/building games, yeah.  I prefer those on PC.  Though, I can tolerate them as well on console (Sim CIty on SNES claim a lot of hours to say the least, and I tolerated that with just using a D-Pad).

 

Then on top, I have no issues using controllers or switching over to KB/Mouse or using both ( I do that with E:D and PSO2).  I basically switch to which I feel fits the game for my playstyle. 

 

And yeah, there some days, like after work ( I work IT, so I have to troubleshoot computers as my job).  Where I don't even want to bother with the computer.  So, I just fire up the console instead and just resume a game (I dig the resume features of the consoles a lot especially on my Switch).

[rikitikitavi]

Give me my steam and gog library, proper support for kb/mouse, discord, options for "competitive"/"visuals", and I will gladly forget that windows exists.

Hopefully GeForce Now will get improved, or alternatives will make it in the foreseeable future.

 

On 3/13/2021 at 3:20 PM, OrdinaryPhil said:

Regarding laptops - I actively dislike them. I can't think of a single reason to own one in favor a PC unless you are actively using it during travel or "on the go" which most people never do.

 

I would argue that even a regular Joe who rarely needs "on the go" setup would benefit from having a laptop, just for the sake of convenience like switching places desk/kitchen, and especially emergencies like power outages for example. Yes, paying premium and possibly getting extra peripherals, is something that not everyone is comfortable with.

 

On 3/13/2021 at 3:20 PM, OrdinaryPhil said:

Oh, and a lot of employees taking their devices home for their kids to play with and damage...

No policy like "you damage/compromise - you pay"?

[OrdinaryPhil]

45 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

No policy like "you damage/compromise - you pay"?

lol no!

I worked in higher ed - it's the place where intelligence goes to die. All of the self-important, radically entitled snowflakes that worked there would literally throw a tantrum and cry to their supervisors until it got so uncomfortable that they just ate the cost and gave them a new device.

I remember a specific example of an employee who regularly "tossed" her laptop into the back seat of her car because she was too lazy to set the damn thing down, that it had all kinds of pits and dents in the chasis. Eventually it landed in such a way that it fell onto the floor while driving, and the screen cracked. She brought it back to me and claimed that she had no idea what happened... she literally said to me "I always take such good care of it".

Very few times in my life I have actually felt an emotion that could be expressed as rage... I could feel my face turning red as she lied to me.

At the end of the day, it wasn't my job to be her parent, so I took the laptop to our director and explained the situation - recommending that she be given a desktop instead, since we were spending $1,500+ on these laptops that were being broken regularly. My director listened, and I would like to think that she even agreed with me on some level. But at the end of the conversation she said - "just give her a new laptop, it would single her out among her peers if she didn't have one and we don't want to embarrass her."

This was not an isolated experience. American higher ed is full of people who exhibit this kind of behavior and thinking. It's disgusting.

After nearly a decade working for that University I eventually had to step away. Too much corruption - too much pandering to the lowest factor. When they asked me to go in and delete data that make the school look bad, I made the worst choice of my life and I did it. I went home that night and talked to my wife about how horrible I felt - literally sick to my stomach about the unethical things I was asked to do.

It sucked for us because at the time I was earning most of our income - but we both agreed that it was the right thing to do. I quit and now I run my own company.

[rikitikitavi]

1 hour ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

lol no!

 

That's f***ed up.

 

Ppl like her should't even get a chromebook lol (no "disrespect" for chromebooks, but they are the bottom of the barrel)

[OrdinaryPhil]

It's really all that f***ed up.

In "the real world" companies have to actually produce something useful if they want your money. They need to provide you with a good or service that you are willing purchase with your dollars. (You're dollars are basically your time converted into an exchangeable standard). You you trade your time for their good or service. It's voluntary and this means that companies have to "earn" what they get from you.

I'm being overly simply here since I don't want to go into a lecture of the basic nature of human civilization and how economies formed.

But modern universities and colleges are the exact opposite. 100 years ago, they had to offer you something - a real advantage for having attended. Access to knowledge that you couldn't get anywhere else, or the chance to meet powerful and influential people. And people were willing to pay them quite a lot of money for this service. But even then, not everyone could afford it. In the 1980', a typical 2 to 4 year program cost between $8,000 and $10,000 USD. That's enough that most people still couldn't afford it. So to bring in more people, they started lobbying the US government to provide more and more financial aid to potential students. This worked, and the local (State, County, City) have raised more taxes every year since to cover the cost of sending more and more people to university.

it may sound generous, but that money came from people - right out of their paychecks in the form of taxes. So people got less money - and schools got more. And the schools really liked this model. Turns out that a massively powerful state likes having control over what their populations are taught in school, and schools like being paid, so it was a match made in heaven.

If tuition cost $8,000 USD for 4 years, and Jane/John Doe only has $5,000... Uncle Sam steps in and pays the difference. Sounds great to the schools. Eventually they start to realize that the cost doesn't really matter. They can raise tuition to $10,000... or $15,000, and if Jane/John Doe only has $5,000.... Uncle Sam STILL makes up that difference for them.

Over enough time, that price has swollen from $10,000 /4years... to $40,000 / ONE year. A typical rate of inflation year over year is about 1.2% to 1.3%. The cost of tuition has risen at almost 10x that rate because schools have an almost infinite amount of money, that Uncle Sam takes from people and gives to them. They no longer have to worry about earning the money, it's just given to them.

So where a normal company has to manage its budget and treat its technology well to ensure they get the best value over time - schools don't give a s**t. Where a $400 desktop would be more than enough, they'll buy $3,000 iMacs. And when people break them, they buy more.

And at the end of each year, they report back that they spent THE ENTIRE IT BUDGET, so clearly we need to increase their budget! "You wouldn't want children to not have the tools to learn! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!".

And it works... every year.

It's gross.

Sorry, you can probably tell my time in higher ed has me a bit... jaded.

[AzzaNezz]

On 3/14/2021 at 12:20 AM, OrdinaryPhil said:

Regarding laptops - I actively dislike them. I can't think of a single reason to own one in favor a PC unless you are actively using it during travel or "on the go" which most people never do.

It depends on the case.

When i was younger,I hated laptops since well they are laptops and not normal gaming full on rgb machines.

Then i got a kid,and suddenly i dont have a place of my own where i can put my pc,my monitors,desk etc.

Thats where laptop came into idea,and now its working great.As the time went on,i started looking at some laptops and they started to grow on me,looked great,powerfull enough for my gaming needs,i can take them and sit on the couch,or bring them with me when i travel.

Consoles,laptops,desktop pc's,and handheld gaming consoles they all serve their purpose,and everyone have different needs,and that shouldnt be judged.

[rikitikitavi]

On 3/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, OrdinaryPhil said:

And at the end of each year, they report back that they spent THE ENTIRE IT BUDGET, so clearly we need to increase their budget! "You wouldn't want children to not have the tools to learn! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!".

I see your story mirrored in other places, and it is sad. Some common sense should be present, and no populist should be at the helm.

Maybe it is layers of bureaucracy that overpower, and the easiest way is just asking for money than solving the problem 

On 3/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, OrdinaryPhil said:

Sorry, you can probably tell my time in higher ed has me a bit... jaded.

No worries. Although it is the opposite of what I went through as a student. Maybe places are different, or maybe this happens mostly behind the scenes.