ArtStation goes NFT...and give up by the end of the day.

[Arika]

10 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

If there's something I'm missing, please don't hesitate to stop me, but I follow a bunch of artists on twitter, not just for fun ones, but ones selling their art constantly. If we're talking about those in this conversation, I don't see the NFT doing anything but providing an extra step/cost to the artist. I can at any time click on an image for sale and save with ease. Some websites won't have a save option, so you just have to screenshot. I can steal those images at any time, not saying I do, but I easily can, and I wouldn't be worried about having a NFT or some proof. Most people aren't even trying to pass it off as theirs or sell it, they just save stuff for phone wallpapers. I just don't really see what impact the option of a digital proof will have. I've never stopped and thought to myself "Gee I wish I had some form of digital proof that I paid for a picture instead of saving from Google Images search, if only..."

No, this is entirely correct. 

 

Artists want something like NFTs, but NFTs in their current forum ain't it because it does literally nothing. 

 

 

Also, thanks @SlidewaysZ for really going above and beyond to prove my point from the previous thread and really driving forward my hatred of all things blockchain. 

[Thaldor]

I don't really get how NFTs even can solve anything. Yeah yeah, proof of ownership or whatever but if you're going to steal digital art, do you even care about ownership in the first place? Does it stop me from taking a photo of Mona Lisa, drawing glowing red stick figure to the background and over exposing the image enough to get through every script or even AI based recognition softwares and claiming "I have now made art, this is my art"? Fuck no, it's just like a piece of paper coming with a collectible item that says it's genuine but it actually takes more to be created than that piece of paper. "But but but... You cannot copy it" Fuck off, at this moment as in example before they are being posted publicly to Twitter, I just copy that, hell, I just generate my own print it in on a nice thick glossy paper with some WordArt around and oh, look at that, I have art with a bunch of random characters printed on paper with it, it's now at least 100x more expensive and no one can copy it (except that I just and everyone else can do the same).

 

Spoiler

I'm really getting bored with these kids running around and claiming how blockchain this and blockchain that will make things so much better without realizing how stupid they are. Best in a short while was someone claiming that blockchain could make copyprotections better... Like how high are you? "Yes" Good, that what I thought. Like imagine putting all that energy and resources to something and afterwards finding out that what most cracks are is to find the verification process and make it return "ok" no matter what was inputted, all that blockchain technology and expensive resources for that someone finds and makes changes so instead of that token you can input "pancakes" and it gets verified.
Second one was that using NFTs to identify digital in-game items. Like holy cheeseballs, do you even have a concept how painful it is to build a MMO item system with thousands of items and then keep notes who has what? Like you want it to be as light as possible because it's just a item management system, not matchmaker or game manager which are going to take a lot of resources and are extremely vital, so you want to pool as much things as possible. 6-8 character identifiers per item and you add that to players profile if they own the item, color can be another identifier because you have set amount of colors or you can just use hex-value as a color, stickers and extras, just store their position and give them another identifier. Now you have a system that doesn't fuck itself up by having way too many things to take into account and you definedly don't have a database of billions of items with unique identifiers from which the GM system much fetch the right item to show in the game every time some item is shown, it can just see that "ok, there's three people with Mac'n'Cheese pitchforks which ID is 098hf3n with sub-ID 7hbarhc, I will show those". As in back in the early 2000's when Pokemon Red and Blue were a thing and Nintendo had this cool looking machine that they shipped to different game/tech events where they gave out Mews to people with the game and empty place in their team and with the Mew in your team you got this nice paper saying "You now have Mew #621354721" and you could feel good about it, but for the game it was one and the same what the paper said your Mews number was, it just market that you had pokemon #151 in your team and if you named it to "Poopypants" it was just variable, not an unique Mew.

 

Like yeah, maybe it could work if everyone or even most of the people would even care about it. But we live in a world where still way too many people have hard time remembering that they most likely don't have cousin in Africa called Nelson Mandela and who happens to be some prince with a lot of money and now their widow would need their help to move that money. Now try to tell them to check some random string of characters from some database that they actually got the sold item and not just a copy of it.

[Jtalk4456]

6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

No, this is entirely correct. 

Artists want something like NFTs, but NFTs in their current forum ain't it because it does literally nothing. 

I think what artists need most is simply fans who care more and buy more. I may be missing some better options, but I can't think of a single way to fix image piracy with a technology unless they stop showing their art. Without showing it, they won't be able to advertise or sell their work.

[Nowak]

9 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

That's because current art is done by a bunch of hippies who don't understand that not all blockchain technology is mined cryptocurrency. They got mad because they are convinced all blockchain is bad for the environment. They will come around when their digital art keeps getting pirated and no one can prove their art is authentic and it becomes worthless.

Anyway, here's the blockchain in action.

 

 

Also, I feel so bad for all the artists who are scrambling to protect their art from theft by blocking accounts involved in NFT piracy when they could be using that time to practice or work on owed art. Fuck the blockchain.

[Bombastinator]

9 hours ago, Sakuriru said:

An estimated 35 kWh per transaction is a lot of electricity.

Art was always done by a bunch of hippies.  Even many hundreds of years ago.  Artists, poets, theologians, etc..  befor there were hippies there were beatnicks, before there were beatnicks there were other things. People remain people.  Find the thinker or artist or theoloen you respect the most and read his biography.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Fasterthannothing]

Look I've gone round and round in this thread so I'll just leave it at this. NFT has a valid and real world application if you agree with the idea or not. Like many have pointed out you can simply copy or screenshot digital art and no one even knows. And that's the problem in a digital world how do you know the item you have is real? That digital photo you bought or the video your watching how do you know it's not a deepfake or copy? Now for many people they don't care a digital image is just that a digital image and it looks the same if it was the original or a copy. However many people who collect art (or companies ensuring their digital assets aren't reproduced) want to know what they purchased is the original! Why do you think IRL paintings that can be verified and authenticated are worth so much more than ones that are not? NFT is that verification it is that heritage and authenticity of the work of art. Look you people can bury your head in the sand and say NFT will never be a thing but I can tell you right now people are paying massive massive amounts of money to make sure their digital assets they own are legitimate and original. I believe so much in this idea I've actually invested my own money into these ideas. I'm not giving out investing advice nor do I want people to think I'm trying to sway them to invest. Not all whatsoever but I would ask you to at least read about what the future holds for digital items and NFT. In the ever expanding world of crypto it's more important than ever you understand how this technology works.

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, SlidewaysZ said:

Look I've gone round and round in this thread so I'll just leave it at this. NFT has a valid and real world application if you agree with the idea or not. Like many have pointed out you can simply copy or screenshot digital art and no one even knows. And that's the problem in a digital world how do you know the item you have is real? That digital photo you bought or the video your watching how do you know it's not a deepfake or copy? Now for many people they don't care a digital image is just that a digital image and it looks the same if it was the original or a copy. However many people who collect art (or companies ensuring their digital assets aren't reproduced) want to know what they purchased is the original! Why do you think IRL paintings that can be verified and authenticated are worth so much more than ones that are not? NFT is that verification it is that heritage and authenticity of the work of art. Look you people can bury your head in the sand and say NFT will never be a thing but I can tell you right now people are paying massive massive amounts of money to make sure their digital assets they own are legitimate and original. I believe so much in this idea I've actually invested my own money into these ideas. I'm not giving out investing advice nor do I want people to think I'm trying to sway them to invest. Not all whatsoever but I would ask you to at least read about what the future holds for digital items and NFT. In the ever expanding world of crypto it's more important than ever you understand how this technology works.

what you are describing and arguing for is digital watermarks.  They’ve been around for a very long time.  I even used them.  The concept of an artist arguing against digital watermarks is so strange that I suspect something is being missed somewhere.  There are a few types of artists that hate them.  DJs and found image people are two types.  They do their art using pieces of other people’s art.  They’d prefer not to pay for the provilidge.  Artists that DO make actual original work generally aren’t bothered by their complaints because they know where it comes from.  If you’ve got only THOSE people complaining of course they’re going to complain. It’s expected. They’re financially biased.  It’s like bar and movie theatre owners complaining about covid restrictions.  Of course they will.  They’re willing to kill people for money.  Screw ‘em.  It’s sounding like that may not be what is happening though.  If it IS what is happening. Then it’s a tempest in a teacup.

[Nowak]

Y'know, there's a pretty good alternative to NFTs and cryptoart out there already. It's called "just commission the artist."

 

NFTs aren't a necessity, especially with the complete lack of regulatory oversight and significant carbon impact. Pay the artists directly instead of throwing around Monopoly money.

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Y'know, there's a pretty good alternative to NFTs and cryptoart out there already. It's called "just commission the artist."

 

NFTs aren't a necessity, especially with the complete lack of regulatory oversight and significant carbon impact. Pay the artists directly instead of throwing around Monopoly money.

I’ve done commissions for both private and industrial applications.  They work out very differently the art and the image are sold separately. As a private party who wants stuff to hang in their houseYou can buy a painting but not the rights to that painting. An advertiser will want LIMITED rights to that painting (for the run of that thing) but are usually totally uninterested in the painting itself.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bombastinator

[LAwLz]

Holy crap people sure are salty about blockchains and anything related to them...

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Holy crap people sure are salty about blockchains and anything related to them...

The cryptomining proponents did nothing but talk up blockchain for years.  They hugged blockchain real real close. They’re viewed as not so good right now so people associate the two.  The only way I can think to separate them is to separate them.  “Block chain is a thing and cryptomining is a different thing.  Cryptomining uses blockchain but they are not one and the same” or some such

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bombastinator

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The cryptomining proponents did nothing but talk up blockchain for years.  They hugged blockchain real real close. They’re viewed as not so good right now so people associate the two.  The only way I can think to separate them is to separate them.  “Block chain is a thing and cryptomining is a different thing.  Cryptomining uses blockchain but they are not one and the same” or some such

Honestly, I don't get why people are upset with cryptomining either and I am not sure the average crypto mining-hater is either. So disassociating the two will probably be hard if not impossible. 

[suicidalfranco]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Holy crap people sure are salty about blockchains and anything related to them...

Makes my popcorn taste better every new thread

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Honestly, I don't get why people are upset with cryptomining either and I am not sure the average crypto mining-hater is either. So disassociating the two will probably be hard if not impossible. 

The people who are upset planned for years to squeeze into a good gpu and it was taken from them.  They got screwed by the etherium people.  They don’t get to game.  How would they not be salty?

[Video Beagle]

14 hours ago, DeScruff said:

Because every artist is supposed to be aware of this thing.
I mean how could they not be aware? Your aware of it! So they must be aware of this... "NFT".

* turns around and asks producer "What the frig is  NFT... No I have no idea what that means. I have never heard of this term till today." *

Nod...

I'm literally a digital artist AND I'm on this forum around once a day and have tech vids playing as background and I only found out this thing exists like 2 hours ago.

[Video Beagle]

2 hours ago, Nowak said:

Y'know, there's a pretty good alternative to NFTs and cryptoart out there already. It's called "just commission the artist."

You say that, but I'm gonna be looking into marketplaces for my art and see if I can find some fools and their money.

[Rocky Arbigaus]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Honestly, I don't get why people are upset with cryptomining either and I am not sure the average crypto mining-hater is either. So disassociating the two will probably be hard if not impossible. 

Cryptomining uses a ton of energy and resources, releases a ton of heat to "extract" something which it's value is based on an artificial scarcity. And in the end, all it's left is a worn out GPU.

[LAwLz]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The people who are upset planned for years to squeeze into a good gpu and it was taken from them.  They got screwed by the etherium people.  They don’t get to game.  How would they not be salty?

Well judging by some figures, it seems like mining have had a very small impact on GPU sales. Like 90% of the shortages and price hikes are from COVID increasing demand, COVID decreasing production capabilities, and COVID increasing shipping prices.

According to some numbers from Nvidia's board meetings, they estimate that 2-6% of their revenue are from Ethereum miners.

 

I think people are desperately looking for someone or something to blame and they have decided on miners, whether they deserve it or not.

 

 

 

Also, some people are REALLY upset about it. If you get as upset as some of these people over not getting the latest GPU to play some game, then you got problems. Either entitlement problems, or gaming addiction problems. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Rocky Arbigaus said:

Cryptomining uses a ton of energy and resources, releases a ton of heat to "extract" something which it's value is based on an artificial scarcity. And in the end, all it's left is a worn out GPU.

There are lots of things that uses energy and resources and at the end of it we're left with nothing but worn out GPUs. Gaming for example.

 

It's not too far fetched to assume that gaming uses somewhere between 50% to 100% as much energy as mining does globally. Far less energy used per user, but far more users (PC gaming alone is estimated to use 75 billion kWh annually, not counting consoles). For comparison, if "PC gaming" was a country, it would be about the 40th most power hungry country in the world. Mining is somewhere around place 25.

 

I'd also argue that if the miners end up with "real money" then they are left with more than a worn out GPU. I have bought some stocks. The datacenters involved in that transactions uses a very significant amount of energy, and "all that we are left with" are worn out CPUs in that case.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Well judging by some figures, it seems like mining have had a very small impact on GPU sales. Like 90% of the shortages and price hikes are from COVID increasing demand, COVID decreasing production capabilities, and COVID increasing shipping prices.

According to some numbers from Nvidia's board meetings, they estimate that 2-6% of their revenue are from Ethereum miners.

 

I think people are desperately looking for someone or something to blame and they have decided on miners, whether they deserve it or not.

 

 

 

Also, some people are REALLY upset about it. If you get as upset as some of these people over not getting the latest GPU to play some game, then you got problems. Either entitlement problems, or gaming addiction problems. 

 

 

 

There are lots of things that uses energy and resources and at the end of it we're left with nothing but worn out GPUs. Gaming for example.

 

It's not too far fetched to assume that gaming uses somewhere between 50% to 100% as much energy as mining does globally. Far less energy used per user, but far more users (PC gaming alone is estimated to use 75 billion kWh annually, not counting consoles). For comparison, if "PC gaming" was a country, it would be about the 40th most power hungry country in the world. Mining is somewhere around place 25.

 

I'd also argue that if the miners end up with "real money" then they are left with more than a worn out GPU. I have bought some stocks. The datacenters involved in that transactions uses a very significant amount of energy, and "all that we are left with" are worn out CPUs in that case.

I’ve seen 20% total increase gpu purchases stated.  I don’t know how that was measured.   If it was only 20% it was still enough to take down all the gpu companies.  There was a guy saying he attempted to RMA a gpu but the company couldn’t replace/repair because they had no stock and would have to send him a check.  If a 20% jump in sales in a year is enough to take down every company that makes GPUs that’s a really really thin supply chain. It strikes me as unlikely.

[Rocky Arbigaus]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

There are lots of things that uses energy and resources and at the end of it we're left with nothing but worn out GPUs. Gaming for example.

 

It's not too far fetched to assume that gaming uses somewhere between 50% to 100% as much energy as mining does globally. Far less energy used per user, but far more users (PC gaming alone is estimated to use 75 billion kWh annually, not counting consoles). For comparison, if "PC gaming" was a country, it would be about the 40th most power hungry country in the world. Mining is somewhere around place 25.

 

I'd also argue that if the miners end up with "real money" then they are left with more than a worn out GPU. I have bought some stocks. The datacenters involved in that transactions uses a very significant amount of energy, and "all that we are left with" are worn out CPUs in that case.

Last time I checked, we don't have warehouses full of of computer for play games.

And yet, you contradict yourself saying that PC gaming in in the 40th place in energy consumption while mining is on 25th. In ranking, mining is 15 places ABOVE gaming.

According to this BBC article, mining consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year. Just to mine virtual coins whose value is defined by artificial scarcity. Do you know what artificial scarcity is? It means that something that something, like a computer file, that can be easily and infinity replicated, is made scarce using artificial means (In this case, the GPU has to spend energy to solve man made algorithms) to make a copy of that information.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56012952

At least games serve a purpose. As entertainment or eSports. Crypto...things don't. They make no sense. You are spending time and resources into pink glittery clouds.

Also, the "Ohhhh, but gaming also consume energy" is a false equivalency fallacy. The fact that gaming also consumes huge ammounts of energy does not legitimate crypto...stuff to consume even more.

[spartaman64]

without some sort of verification process and allowing anyone to claim any image they want i dont see whats the utility in this. might as well just put on an old fashioned signature and call it a day and it would be the same thing

[Thaldor]

11 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Holy crap people sure are salty about blockchains and anything related to them...

After looking what some artists has to say about this it's not that it's blockchains, it's more that the whole thing is one huge fuckfest. No one is actually controlling anything, everyone is just throwing shit to be tokened and the worst, people are tokening someone else's artwork as their own and the best "helpful tip" for that coming from the NFT side of things to the artists whos art has been stolen is even written here:

On 3/9/2021 at 7:21 PM, SlidewaysZ said:

That's because that person didn't enter their art on the blockchain first. If they had the hash would have matched and not allowed the other user to claim it so to speak

So a platform/tool that should verify ownership of digital art and things and help to protect it is being used to steal that art from their owners and the best that the platform "upkeepers" say is: "Better be faster next time" and then they have the audacity to claim that this is better than anything before and that people who oppose it are stupid.

 

Like seriously there is only one quote that can sum this up:

"How high are you?" -Fluff

[Fnige]

16 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Makes my popcorn taste better every new thread

The amount of popcorn that comes from those threads would probably down the entire earth from it.

[Beskamir]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:23 AM, SlidewaysZ said:

That's because current art is done by a bunch of hippies who don't understand that not all blockchain technology is mined cryptocurrency. They got mad because they are convinced all blockchain is bad for the environment. They will come around when their digital art keeps getting pirated and no one can prove their art is authentic and it becomes worthless.

 

Some of what you say is accurate, such as there being ways to confirm crypto stuff (transactions and minting) that aren't terrible for the environment but there will always be a computing cost to an nft. You'll always need the decentralized computing network running to some extent in order to store and access data on it even if you can validate that data's creation with proof of stake algorithms rather than proof of work.

[LAwLz]

14 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve seen 20% total increase gpu purchases stated.  I don’t know how that was measured.   If it was only 20% it was still enough to take down all the gpu companies.  There was a guy saying he attempted to RMA a gpu but the company couldn’t replace/repair because they had no stock and would have to send him a check.  If a 20% jump in sales in a year is enough to take down every company that makes GPUs that’s a really really thin supply chain. It strikes me as unlikely.

Hm, how that was measured is very important, but it might make sense.

20% increase in GPU sales, some of which (let's say 10%) are increase in mining hardware. That might end up at about 4% total mining sales which Nvidia reported earlier.

So 20% higher demand, and maybe let's say 30% reduction in production (grabbed out of thin air), on top of shipping issues, might be why we have such shortages.

 

I think the reduction in production is the big thing. I mean, it's not just mining related stuff that are in short supplies so I don't get why people are blaming miners. Cars, consoles, mousepads (according to Linus), processors, etc. All of it are in very short supplies. If everyone is struggling then I don't really see why people assume miners are to blame for it and not something bigger (like the pandemic reducing production capacity). Or maybe people think miners are behind the short supply on things like cars as well...