Leaked MacBook Air GB5 benchmark shows score higher than 16-inch MacBook Pro; SC higher than 5950X

[Letgomyleghoe]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

What I am saying is that it is a very tiny issue that seems to be getting blown out of proportions, probably because this is a forum that hates anything Apple related and people WANT to find issues.

i was actually considering buying this mac, and maybe loading up linux if i could, but just the pure amount of software i need that will not be supported is a deal breaker, i need to be able to manage my servers, and thats not looking likes its gonna be possible afaik.

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

i was actually considering buying this mac, and maybe loading up linux if i could, but just the pure amount of software i need that will not be supported is a deal breaker, i need to be able to manage my servers, and thats not looking likes its gonna be possible afaik.

Software such as?

 

The software I use to manage servers are:

1) SSH (will work out of the box)

2) RDP (will probably work just fine)

3) VPN for different environments (will work out of the box)

 

Not sure what other program you might need. 

[saltycaramel]

Fun fact: at day1 there will probably be at least one app that contains a full x86 Alpine Linux emulated on ARM. (the app is iSH for iPad) 

 

That is, if the dev ticked the box to opt-in for the distribution of his ipad app on AS Macs. (no reasons to think he wouldn’t, he actually tries hard to get his app on apple devices in every possible way, even sideloaded on AltStore) 

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

1) SSH (will work out of the box)

2) RDP (will probably work just fine)

is their PuTTY support?

 

or something similar i need telnet too.

[Roswell]

40 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Didn't realize that running any 3D applications was a fringe use case

It runs 3D apps and provides direct hardware access.

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

It does not matter how quick your car is on a race track if you intent to use it for hauling..... ARM Macs won't even be able to run Photoshop natively for another year, so as far as I'm concerned Apple Silicon is fighting an uphill battle in terms of getting Pros to try it out. Not to mention the loss of myself as a customer (yeah, the Apple fanboy of the forum) because Bootcamp is gone. 

Adobe has comited to release their arm versions. So I really dont know what the issue is unless you need a new mac like right now (even then the intel versions are still available). I'm sorry, but huge changes like this will take some time. Until then, we have Rosetta that will help you run older apps. And with Apple's push most developers should get sorted in about 2 years unless they want Apple to leave them to dust (also check last reply).

 

And why do use Bootcamp? I fail to understand use cases so perhaps you can enlighten me here

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

theres multiple (ryzen mainly) laptops that can last 15-20 hours, given not "GAMING" laptops, but neither is the mac...

Examples? Not claims, but actual tested by someone. And also, it should be able to buy it and it should match be a similar class of laptop, like the XPS or the Specter line. No point in having an extremely thick laptop and calling it 15-20 hour beast.

52 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

i don't think its that all, im happy to accept more battery life performance etc. but when its getting the same app support as a fucking iPad it stops making sense

 

okay... believe what you'd like to, apple has made a good chip, but the problem is app support...

Okay, let's just ignore it runs iOS apps. What about the existing software? It runs through Rosetta until it gets updated with universal binary. How difficult is this concept to understand? In addition to the previous two lines, you also have an option to run iOS apps. And that's actually a good thing becasue there are a lot of apps at this point that's available on iOS compared of Mac/Windows. And many developers focus on improving the mobile experiance these days that it's actually better to use the app, than say it's original website.

 

App Support is an issue on Windows because developers dont have the tools to migrate, nor performance, nor any reason becasue they know most people will be still using x86. It's different with Apple, because they will effectively force developers to change. That's why you don't see any PowerPC app, or 32-bit apps on iOS anymore. Developers in Apple ecosystem always adapts whenever Apple introduces new changes

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Examples? Not claims, but actual tested by someone. And also, it should be able to buy it and it should match be a similar class of laptop, like the XPS or the Specter line. No point in having an extremely thick laptop and calling it 15-20 hour beast.

https://www.newegg.com/asus-um425ia-nh74/p/N82E16834235516?Description=ryzen laptop&cm_re=ryzen_laptop-_-34-235-516-_-Product

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

It runs through Rosetta until it gets updated with universal binary. How difficult is this concept to understand?

i wasnt actually aware of this

[LAwLz]

Just now, Letgomyleghoe said:

is their PuTTY support?

 

or something similair

Depends on what you use PuTTY for.

If you use it for SSH then yes, that is available natively on MacOS. You just open the terminal and write "ssh 192.168.1.1" and it will start an SSH session to 192.168.1.1. The same goes for telnet.

 

 

If you use PuTTY for the serial connection support then it is possible to do through the terminal but a little bit more complicated. 

Type in: 

ls /dev/tty*

that will (hopefully, if you got the drivers) output the serial device connected to your USB port, and from there you can just type in this command to screen the raw serial connection to the terminal:

screen /dev/tty-xxxx

 

Or you can install a third party app like Serial or CoolTerm and then use that just like you would use PuTTY. 

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

The same goes for telnet.

 

okay well that answers my question, i've been looking around for a new laptop for a while now, trying to decide now between the zenbook 14 or the new 13 inch mac 

[saltycaramel]

I think battery life on AS Macs will “feel” to the user like battery life on iPads. 

Not sure how to better explain this, you need to have daily driven an iPad. 

 

So I don’t think there’s anything like that in the x86 laptops camp, “hours” counts notwithstanding.

 

Intel is starting to do something about it with their first heterogeneous cores CPUs at the horizon, but that’s amateur hour compared to apple’s decade long experience with heterogeneous cores (big + small cores), both on the hw and the sw front.

 

Intel and MS really need to sit very close at the same piano with 4 hands to play this kind of concert, and even then it won’t be the same as a single company creating custom

hw to perfectly serve the sw and sw that fits the hw like a glove..

[RedRound2]

9 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

https://www.newegg.com/asus-um425ia-nh74/p/N82E16834235516?Description=ryzen laptop&cm_re=ryzen_laptop-_-34-235-516-_-Product

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/40887-asus-zenbook-14-um425ia-review/

 

I just see typical battery life numbers here

Quote

i wasnt actually aware of this

They've like said this many times. Rosetta 2 is a translation layer and they've even demoed Maya running on A12Z back in WWDC. Craig this time also said that some games run faster through translation just because the M1 chip is so much faster than the previous Intel processors they used

[Letgomyleghoe]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I just see typical battery life numbers here

Hmm i was reading a few reviews that were praising it for its battery life compared to other laptops.

[tech.guru]

First off a single threaded benchmarks benifits ARM, big little architecture.

 

The reality, its not 2005 anymore where single core processor are the norm and applications are coded for single thread.

 

Modern applications will take advantage lots of cores and do parallel processing. Ever notice the browser no longer waits for one image to load and notice modern browsers like chrome have many processes to fetch and load data.

 

Traditional desktop pcs and laptops have much more powerful cores and more of them to handle multi core workloads.

 

These devices arnt new, its a recycled idea from the chromebooks of the past. Its a way for apple to further lock down its ecosystem and sell services.

 

Enjoy paying for the guts of smartphone in a bigger form factor for twice the price

 

I mean leave it to apple get people excited about netbooks

 

 

 

 

[LAwLz]

44 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

okay well that answers my question, i've been looking around for a new laptop for a while now, trying to decide now between the zenbook 14 or the new 13 inch mac 

Personally, I would go for the Asus one but it depends on what you value.

App compatibility might still be an issue for some people, even though I think it's an overblown issue. 

[saltycaramel]

8 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

First off a single threaded benchmarks benifits ARM, big little architecture.

 

The reality, its not 2005 anymore where single core processor are the norm and applications are coded for single thread.

 

Modern applications will take advantage lots of cores and do parallel processing. Ever notice the browser no longer waits for one image to load and notice modern browsers like chrome have many processes to fetch and load data.

 

Traditional desktop pcs and laptops have much more powerful cores and more of them to handle multi core workloads.

 

These devices arnt new, its a recycled idea from the chromebooks of the past. Its a way for apple to further lock down its ecosystem and sell services.

 

Enjoy paying for the guts of smartphone in a bigger form factor for twice the price

 

I mean leave it to apple get people excited about netbooks

 

 

 

 

 

“tech.guru”

[Spindel]

Just now, saltycaramel said:

 

“tech.guru”

Willfully ignoring that the M1 still beats a lot of the CPUs in multi core too (both geekbench and affinity benchmark). 

[tech.guru]

1 minute ago, Spindel said:

Willfully ignoring that the M1 still beats a lot of the CPUs in multi core too (both geekbench and affinity benchmark). 

Yes lets pay attention to browser based bench marks just proves my point

 

If all you do is web surf these will suit you fine.

 

If you want to do actual work and not watch youtube get a real computer

[Spindel]

1 minute ago, tech.guru said:

Yes lets pay attention to browser based bench marks just proves my point

 

If all you do is web surf these will suit you fine.

 

If you want to do actual work and not watch youtube get a real computer

My most used programs for work (no particular order):

AutoCad

Excel

Mail

WebBrowser

Teams

 

All of them more or less single threaded (yeah I know some functions in Excel are multithreaded). WebBrowsing is single threaded per instance (tab). Teams I don't know. 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

okay well that answers my question, i've been looking around for a new laptop for a while now, trying to decide now between the zenbook 14 or the new 13 inch mac 

I would go with the Zenbook, seems priced well and Ryzen laptop chips are a much better value than Intel, weird it has no headphone jack but it comes with a 3.5mm dongle adapter

14 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

Yes lets pay attention to browser based bench marks just proves my point

 

If all you do is web surf these will suit you fine.

 

If you want to do actual work and not watch youtube get a real computer

A benchmark comparing only 1 core is a flawed benchmark, lots of software can use more than 1 core, even a browser will use multiple cores. The CPU hasn't been a limitation for most people as most still get stuff done on a dual core, performance doesn't matter when you can't run software without an emulation layer which will of course be slower, or use an eGPU for many tasks that need a traditional GPU.

Being limited to first party apps and only apps that apple allows is probably fine for most apple consumers, but app compatibility is still a problem even if its only for some users.

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

What's to try here? I alreayd have a 2020 MBA that has pretty good battery life. I know for sure that the new ones will have better battery life. So again, what am I supposed to try here? 

They've never really called out any specific hardware for any comparison, historically. And I honestly dont see what's the issue here. It's not like we take presentation numbers as hardline facts for any companies. You'll get these new Macs out in the wild next week. SO just wait for the independant reviews

Umm, we have GB scores of the chip in leagues with i9. And Geekbench is a valid benchamark across platform. It measures how much a CPU can do in a given time and it doesn't matter which OS or platform it's running on

 

It runs normal apps in addition to iOS apps. That just basically exploded the mac app ecosystem. And with Catalyst it's easy to update and maintain both Mac and iOS apps, and will get easier with Mac as only UI changes need to be incorporated.

 

Dual booting OS can come in future when Windows on ARM isnt hot garbage. But even then, It doubt its a great loss.

 

As long as this emulation/translation is seamless then it's not a concern. You wouldn't even know the difference, unless there's performance degradation - which looks unlikely). And whenever these apps do get ARM support, automatically your laptop get a huge performance boost - you know the actual numbers that PCMR has been trying so hard to justifying it being useless the past few days

 

They're going in house with GPU too, so I again doubt it's a loss. They have their own Metal API, so they sure as hell have engineers who can make instruction sets that applications can take advatage of

Probably the most short sighted comment here. I understand people being skeptical about it back when there were rumours 4 years ago of Apple looking into shifting to ARM, but just valiantly calling out the new MAcs as chromebooks even after perfomance numbers and high profile developers acknowledged it as so. That is quite a bit of ignorance/denial

How is taking your laptop outside (you know the benefit of having a laptop), for a weekend vacation, or client site visit, situations with prolonged power cuts, or even the recent work from home trends where people actually work from multiple locations an edge case scenario? Just because it is for you, doesn't mean it is for others. The fact that laptops is as popular as today is due to it being able to stay unthethered from the wall.

 

So sorry to break it to you, but you're just straight up wrong and trying to downplay the potential gains and benefits because for some reason you just don't like Apple

15-20 hour battery life is not normal. Windows manufacturers claim those numbers, but most of them only lasts between 7-12 hours, typical for a ultrabook these days. And apple's battery life numbers are usually on point

Failure to realise that you aren't the whole world is the issue with most people in this world. If everyone was like and usually always worked near an outlet, then laptops would've died as a category long time ago. Except it isn't and it's much more popular than desktops, excluding the high end (due to obvious performance reasons)

 

So what you may think as useless to you, is useful to many others

 

My personal comment:

Honestly, I can't believe that I have to go out of my way and justify why better battery is good thing to a lot of people here. It's so ridiclous how the people you expect to be enthusiats who are more knowledged than the vast majority of people remain ignorant.... because erm, Apple

I am just pointing out that for most people who use laptops its for portability reasons and not because of lack of an outlet. If you have to bring your computer with you then yeah a laptop makes sense but often times you still are going to be able to plug your laptop in at your destination or at least at some point before you would require 20 hours of battery life. I am not saying that there are zero cases where people require their laptop to last them 20 hours without access to an outlet i am just saying such cases are rare. Yes laptops are more common for consumers than desktops but that isn't because they don't have access to an outlet and they are intending to run their computer off the battery but rather for portability. Sure better battery life is great if you don't have to give anything up for it but that isn't really the case here because you are giving up the x86 platform for said battery life. 

[LAwLz]

32 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

Traditional desktop pcs and laptops have much more powerful cores and more of them to handle multi core workloads.

Ehm, all evidence we got right now points towards "traditional desktop PCs and laptops" having WEAKER cores, not more powerful ones.

 

 

17 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

Yes lets pay attention to browser based bench marks just proves my point

 

If all you do is web surf these will suit you fine.

 

If you want to do actual work and not watch youtube get a real computer

Those benchmarks are not browser based.

Here is a simple of the benchmarks Anandtech ran, and I'll let you decide if they are "actual work" or not.

 

• SpanAssassin and email indexer MHonArc.
• bzip2 compression.
• compiling code with gcc.
• Network simplex algorithm which is used in commercial software for scheduling public transport.
• Letting an AI play the game of Go.
• Protein analysis.
• Letting an AI play games of chess.
• Simulating a quantum computer by running Shor's polynomial-time factorization algorithm
• Video compression with the reference H.264 encoder
• Simulating a large campus network using OMNeT++
• Running the A* algorithm for pathfinding.
• Converting XML documents into other document types

 

What types of programs do you refer to as "actual work"?

What is a "real computer" in your eyes?

 

 

  

10 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

A browser based benchmark,and comparing only 1 core is a flawed benchmark, lots of software can use more than 1 core, even a browser will use multiple cores.

These benchmarks are not browser based...

Stop repeating arguments you hear other people say without verifying if they are true or not. I get that you desperately wants the M1 to be a bad processor, but it does not seem to be the case.

 

Also, the M1 has 4 big cores. So if we start looking at programs that use up to 4 cores then the M1 will probably pull ahead even more.

Sure if you are looking at the handful of common programs that can properly utilize more than 4 cores then AMD and Intel might start pulling ahead with their 8 core processors, but then we are talking about a different class of device. And I would also wager that most programs don't scale well above 4 threads anyway.

The people that do need very high multithreaded CPU performance are probably not running those workloads on their 13" laptops.

I am very confident that the workloads people put on their 13" laptops are the type of workloads that don't scale very well above a handful of threads.

[Brooksie359]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Sounds like you understand fine.  Outlets aren’t always available. As for laptops for work they’re only really useful when computers have to move.   Lots of jobs require that.  They even make special ones just for that.  

Honestly the only time I have done work were I didn't have access to an outlet we didn't use a laptop we used tablets instead because when you are standing and on the move a laptop doesn't make a ton of sense. When you do have the ability and sit down and use a laptop then most of the time you will have an outlet available. I just don't see very many use cases where you go 20 hours at a time where you can't charge your laptop or use an outlet. 

[tech.guru]

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Ehm, all evidence we got right now points towards "traditional desktop PCs and laptops" having WEAKER cores, not more powerful ones.

 

 

Those benchmarks are not browser based.

Here is a simple of the benchmarks Anandtech ran, and I'll let you decide if they are "actual work" or not.

 

• SpanAssassin and email indexer MHonArc.
• bzip2 compression.
• compiling code with gcc.
• Network simplex algorithm which is used in commercial software for scheduling public transport.
• Letting an AI play the game of Go.
• Protein analysis.
• Letting an AI play games of chess.
• Simulating a quantum computer by running Shor's polynomial-time factorization algorithm
• Video compression with the reference H.264 encoder
• Simulating a large campus network using OMNeT++
• Running the A* algorithm for pathfinding.
• Converting XML documents into other document types

 

What types of programs do you refer to as "actual work"?

What is a "real computer" in your eyes?

 

 

  

These benchmarks are not browser based...

Stop repeating arguments you hear other people say without verifying if they are true or not. I get that you desperately wants the M1 to be a bad processor, but it does not seem to be the case.

You can not use a bench mark to compare processor of different architectures.

 

A lot of those tasks you mentioned arnt even performed exclusively on a CPU today. CUDA and OpenGL on AMD and nvidia do these AI. GPU can accelerate encoding tasks and even some cpu with integrated graphics using quicksync which are faster than CPU only encoding. An laptop with CUDA graphics card would no doubt crush those scores for relevance.

 

The x86 is general purpose processor and cherry picking some tasks not optimized for x86 isnt going to help arm win.

 

In addition people do many things at once on a modern computer not one task and this is where arm has traditionally struggled.

 

[Spindel]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:00 AM, Spindel said:

PCMR people:

 

”BWAH! A test of a CPUs general purpose computing favors a CPU good at general purpose computing. 
 

Not fair!”

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by quoting myself...

[Blademaster91]

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

These benchmarks are not browser based...

Stop repeating arguments you hear other people say without verifying if they are true or not. I get that you desperately wants the M1 to be a bad processor, but it does not seem to be the case.

geekbench has a browser based benchmark, but whether its browser based or not geekbench is about as irrelevant as it gets for a benchmark that can realistically compare processors.  I get that you're desperate to want to say the M1 beats absolutely everything but I'm not going to believe the apple marketing hype.

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, the M1 has 4 big cores. So if we start looking at programs that use up to 4 cores then the M1 will probably pull ahead even more.

Up to 4 cores, except the topic comparing it to a 16 core/ 32 thread cpu.

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

but then we are talking about a different class of device. And I would also wager that most programs don't scale well above 4 threads anyway.

Except the M1 is being compared to a different class device, then it's fair enough to run programs that scale on the 5950X.

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The people that do need very high multithreaded CPU performance are probably not running those workloads on their 13" laptops.

I am very confident that the workloads people put on their 13" laptops are the type of workloads that don't scale very well above a handful of threads.

Then those people don't need single core performance at all, those people more likely need bootcamp, and giving up x86 compatibility is still a downside even on a 13" laptop.