Leaked MacBook Air GB5 benchmark shows score higher than 16-inch MacBook Pro; SC higher than 5950X

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

 

On the other hand, both next gen gaming consoles (PS5 and Xbox Series X) use an SoC with integrated GPU. 

For sure, with a big fat cooling system that would never end up in a laptop, but an integrated GPU nonetheless. 

Sort of.  It’s on the pcb but it’s got it’s own Ihs.

[Letgomyleghoe]

14 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

use an SoC with integrated GPU. 

For sure, with a big fat cooling system that would never end up in a laptop, but an integrated GPU nonetheless. 

i wouldnt consider it "integrated" at all, its on the motherboard purely to conserver space, and i believe both are using BIG NAVI architecture, which no cpu has integrated on it, i wish motherboards would start having graphics integrated on them again.

[saltycaramel]

Famously the 2018 iPad Pro reached the power of a 2013 Xbox One in 5 years...I wonder if in 2024-2025 we may get a Macbook Air as powerful as a PS5

 

Back when Apple had to wait for Intel to figure the CPU/iGPU out, this kind of thought would have been absurd. 

 

But now we have every right to expect iPhone-like year-on-year improvements..

[Bombastinator]

I fact checked my own thing and I may even be wrong about it being on the same pcb.  I’m seeing 2 boards each with a big ihs on it

 

 

shouda done that before posting

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

53 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Re: battery life

i think you’re taking the battery life thing for more than was said.  I think there can be reasons to buy a laptop and then not use the battery.  The first one that comes to mind space.  You basically need a whole desk to set up a desktop system.  A laptop can be folded up and put away. There are “desktop replacement” laptop PCs after all that for a time were famous for having more or less vestigial battery life.  Setting up a desktop on say, a bed, works poorly.

I feel like this is more of an edge case than what most people use laptops for though. The MacBook Air always had really good battery life (the 2010-2017 models due to the TN display and low-power processor), which is why they're one of the best selling laptops. Other laptops that have all-day or long battery life like the LG Gram or Dell XPS still sell much better than your average Asus ROG or MSI laptop.

 

I even had this conversation with myself. I determined that 90% of stuff I do is at my desk, so a laptop with limits isn't really worth it for me. So I just bought a cheap Dell OptiPlex and kitted it out which serves me much better than any laptop would have in my specific use case. But that 10% of the time I do need a laptop I use my Surface Pro 3 and let me tell you the one reason why I'm considering replacing it with an iPad or MacBook is because of battery life. Not saying that your use case is wrong, just not popular with most laptop users.

[saltycaramel]

So, these are the SoCs and the heatsinks (with no thermal paste contact area for a discrete GPU anywhere else on the PCB) of next gen consoles

 

 

They are SoCs (CPU and GPU are on the same rectangular thingy that comes out as a whole from the fab), like the Apple M1.

 

They use a unified memory architecture, like the Apple M1.

 

That is all, Your Honor.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

I feel like this is more of an edge case than what most people use laptops for though. The MacBook Air always had really good battery life (the 2010-2017 models due to the TN display and low-power processor), which is why they're one of the best selling laptops. Other laptops that have all-day or long battery life like the LG Gram or Dell XPS still sell much better than your average Asus ROG or MSI laptop.

 

I even had this conversation with myself. I determined that 90% of stuff I do is at my desk, so a laptop with limits isn't really worth it for me. So I just bought a cheap Dell OptiPlex and kitted it out which serves me much better than any laptop would have in my specific use case. But that 10% of the time I do need a laptop I use my Surface Pro 3 and let me tell you the one reason why I'm considering replacing it with an iPad or MacBook is because of battery life. Not saying that your use case is wrong, just not popular with most laptop users.

There will be stats somewhere.  I understand it varies somewhat by living situation.  Raw numbers you are probably more correct.  Myself I could care less about battery life.  I’ve got a laptop I haven’t even pulled out of its bag in like 2 years.  Desktop and phone are fine for me.  I do think that beyond a certain point there is diminishing returns for extending battery life.  There is a periodic nature to it though. 9hr minimum is lots better than 7 hour minimum because one is a healthy work day and the other isnt.  The usefulness level between 9 and 11 isn’t nearly as big though.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

So, these are the SoCs and the heatsinks (with no thermal paste contact area for a discrete GPU anywhere else on the PCB) of next gen consoles

 

 

They are SoCs (CPU and GPU are on the same rectangular thingy that comes out as a whole from the fab), like the Apple M1.

 

They use a unified memory architecture, like the Apple M1.

 

That is all, Your Honor.

So separate heat sinks for cpu and gpu?  I couldn’t find ps5 photos.  I’m seeing 2 heat sinks, one with liquid metal on it, and another with what looks like a memory array normally associated with a gpu. I’ve heard APU though, and I’ve seen die shots of what looks like an 8 core with a big ass gpu taking most of the middle in it.  Might have been a 4xxx apu though. I dunno. A true APU would be single ihs and heat sink in most circumstances. definition of terms.  If there’s two chips on one board with separate heat sinks it’s only arguably an apu.  Confusing stuff. 

[saltycaramel]

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So separate heat sinks for cpu and gpu?  I couldn’t find ps5 photos.  I’m seeing 2 heat sinks, one with liquid metal on it, and another with what looks like a memory array normally associated with a gpu. I’ve heard APU though, and I’ve seen die shots of what looks like an 8 core with a big ass gpu taking most of the middle in it.  Might have been a 4xxx apu though. I dunno. A true APU would be single ihs and heat sink in most circumstances. definition of terms.  If there’s two chips on one board with separate heat sinks it’s only arguably an apu.  Confusing stuff. 

Those are from 2 consoles.

First pic

- on the left the SoC of the PS5

- on the right the SoC of the XboxSeriesX

 

Second pic

- on the left the main heatsink of the XboxSerieX

- on the right the main heatsink of the PS5

 

there’s no separate GPU to be found anywhere

these are custom System-on-Chip like the Apple M1

CPU and GPU are together

plus, memory is shared by CPU and GPU, there’s no dedicated video memory, like on the Apple M1

 

So, integrated GPUs can go a long way, if properly cooled.

[saltycaramel]

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/13/apple-silicon-macs-universal-apps/

 

It hAz nO aPpS

 

customers will receive the first units on Tuesday

devs have been preparing their apps since June on the dev kit

plus most of the Intel ones working anyway thanks to Rosetta

[suicidalfranco]

Good for Apple I'd have to say. They might have a winner in their hands right now!

Though I'd most definitely never buy one cause Apple and ,maybe iPad aside, I'm long gone from that wagon, I do hope this sends a shockwave throughout the industry.

Now that AMD has caught some momentum with Ryzen I would love to see them race Apple instead of just trying to one up Intel.

Would also love to see someone within the RISC-V movement rise up and give the likes of Qualcomm a run for their money.

Maybe give a wake-up shake to Intel but have lost confidence in them trying to do anything meaningful at this point.

 

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Good for Apple I'd have to say. They might have a winner in their hands right now!

Though I'd most definitely never buy one cause Apple and ,maybe iPad aside, I'm long gone from that wagon, I do hope this sends a shockwave throughout the industry.

Now that AMD has caught some momentum with Ryzen I would love to see them race Apple instead of just trying to one up Intel.

Would also love to see someone within the RISC-V movement rise up and give the likes of Qualcomm a run for their money.

Maybe give a wake-up shake to Intel but have lost confidence in them trying to do anything meaningful at this point.

 

The thing I could see out of an apple win here is Nvidia taking the next next gen console hardware contract with an AMD chip

[Brooksie359]

11 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

I don't know why most people aren't picking up on this, but a lot of game studios are starting to really pay attention to the mobile space. Epic Games (tried atleast with Apple), Tencent and PUBG, etc. When you make a game on iOS and iPadOS now it's instantly compatible with macOS. Whether you like it or not, gaming on a Mac is gonna be more popular now than it ever was.

 

Plus its not like Metal is bad, when an *actually* good port is made, Metal is actually comparable to DirectX. Just most ports don't care and use OpenGL which is much slower.

No offense to you, but if you're not using the battery on a laptop, why do you have a laptop? It would've been much more cost effective to just buy/build a desktop...

 

This is the first forum where I've actually seen people not want more battery life...? Excuse me, what? It's possible to have power AND power efficiency, that's what the M1 is. Is this seriously a case of people just don't want battery life, or is it a case of "We don't care about X anymore" like when Apple embarrassed its competitors with the A9 chip and the battery life on the iPhone 11 Pro Max which led people to go from "We have the fastest/best X!" to "X is enough, we don't really need more of it."

Apparently is due to get replaced with a 14" MacBook Pro in March.

And? It's not like Apple patented this technology, what's stopping AMD and Intel from using it if it increases performance this much? If you want to take out accelerators and stuff from the equation and have a "bare-bones" test, then it's really not an indication of real-world use anymore, is it...

I think they did it because of M1's lack of PCIe lanes. Look at what's in common between the AS Mac mini and MBP and the Intel ones. 4TB ports. Apple completely canned the Intel MacBook Air because there was no 4TB model for that, but they had to keep the Mac mini and the MacBook Pro 13" models because some people require those 4TB ports. Now, when M2 or M1X comes out which has enough PCIe lanes to carry over 4TB ports, they will get canned, this I think is only temporary. Same reason as to why there isn't any 10 gigabit on the Mac mini.

You clearly haven't been reading my posts so I will just reiterate what I have already explained. I use a laptop because I can't put my desktop in my backpack and bring it with me while I can do that with my laptop. Everywhere I do end up using my laptop it generally was where I could easily plug it in or I wasn't using it for an extended period of time. Now obviously better batterylife is better if all else is equal but here that is not the case. If all we cared about was battery life then everyone would buy arm based windows laptops because they have better battery life. The problem is those devices generally sucked and nobody bought them. Now Apple will likely have a better implementation than widows did but it is still going to be more of a hassle in terms of compatibility and unknown in terms of performance all for improved battery life. I for one don't think it would be worth it but I guess some people really need their 20 hours of battery life for those crazy times where you work for 20 hours straight without plugging in their laptop. 

[RedRound2]

16 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

It doesn't have to do with not having a laptop with good battery life but rather I have never felt the need to not have my laptop plugged in. I mean there were certainly short durations where I couldn't plug my laptop in but that was never long enough to be an issue. 

Your need isn't everybody's needs. Vast majority of the people including reviewers want more battery life, so I can certainly say you're in the minority here. And again, as I mentioned I feel like you haven't really used a laptop with good battery life to actually experience a lifestyle where you don't have to plug in the device the whole time. It's similar to wireless earbuds. If you've never used it, you really don't what the point of wireless is. But once you use it, you'll realize the extra freedom you suddenly get and you can't really go back. That's why wireless earbuds and headphones have become so popular recently, even though you could stick with wired

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Your need isn't everybody's needs. Vast majority of the people including reviewers want more battery life, so I can certainly say you're in the minority here. And again, as I mentioned I feel like you haven't really used a laptop with good battery life to actually experience a lifestyle where you don't have to plug in the device the whole time. It's similar to wireless earbuds. If you've never used it, you really don't what the point of wireless is. But once you use it, you'll realize the extra freedom you suddenly get and you can't really go back. That's why wireless earbuds and headphones have become so popular recently, even though you could stick with wired

Like I have said before I fundamentally disagree with that statement. The majority of the people I know aren't complaining about their laptops battery life and wanting a different laptop as a result. The reason being that most people plug their laptops in or go without it being plugged in a couple or hours at a time not 20 hours. Battery life for a tablet or a phone makes sense to me as you typically would use those on the go but for a laptop you really need to be sitting down somewhere to use it and often times you can go and plug it in at that time. Obviously having more battery life is good but not when it comes at the expense of not running an x86 chip and having to hassle with compatibility workarounds like rosseta and potentially performance penalties in x86 oriented workloads. 

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

8 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Now obviously better batterylife is better if all else is equal but here that is not the case. If all we cared about was battery life then everyone would buy arm based windows laptops because they have better battery life.

We don't because they're all shit...

 

And most of their battery life claims aren't even too impressive, like the Surface Pro X.

8 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I for one don't think it would be worth it but I guess some people really need their 20 hours of battery life for those crazy times where you work for 20 hours straight without plugging in their laptop. 

It's not just 20 hours of video playback. That's an extra few hours while video editing, or coding. Not needing to find a plug when you have time sensitive work on your hands and you're not near an outlet. A lot of people do care about battery life. Good on you if you don't, but I find it hard to believe that the majority of the population doesn't care about battery life.

[saltycaramel]

Leaked GPU benchmarks on GFXBench

 

https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp

 

just search for “M1” in the “Search GPUs and Devices” field

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

Leaked GPU benchmarks on GFXBench

 

https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp

 

just search for “M1” in the “Search GPUs and Devices” field

It's actually not that bad.

 

It's not equal to the 5300M found in the MacBook Pro 16", but the fact that it comes close and we're even making this argument on a 13" laptop says a lot about the future of Apple Silicon.

 

But this thing just crushes the Xe graphics found in Tiger Lake. Imagine the performance when they scale it up to a 45W part.

[Commodus]

6 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Like I have said before I fundamentally disagree with that statement. The majority of the people I know aren't complaining about their laptops battery life and wanting a different laptop as a result. The reason being that most people plug their laptops in or go without it being plugged in a couple or hours at a time not 20 hours. Battery life for a tablet or a phone makes sense to me as you typically would use those on the go but for a laptop you really need to be sitting down somewhere to use it and often times you can go and plug it in at that time. Obviously having more battery life is good but not when it comes at the expense of not running an x86 chip and having to hassle with compatibility workarounds like rosseta and potentially performance penalties in x86 oriented workloads. 

To back up what NotTheFirstDaniel said about what it means for real-world battery life:

 

My work involves Photoshop, lots of browser tabs and Slack, let alone extras like music or social apps. My 13-inch MacBook Pro from 2013, even when new, couldn't realistically last a full workday under a load like that (to Apple's credit, its claimed battery life wasn't unrealistically higher). The M1-based MBP's battery certainly won't hit 20 hours under that kind of load, but it could mean never worrying about whether I'll have enough charge to complete a workday on-location (when on-location is a thing again) or during an extended power outage. That could be incredibly valuable.

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

It's actually not that bad.

 

It's not equal to the 5300M found in the MacBook Pro 16", but the fact that it comes close and we're even making this argument on a 13" laptop says a lot about the future of Apple Silicon.

 

But this thing just crushes the Xe graphics found in Tiger Lake. Imagine the performance when they scale it up to a 45W part.

 

Not to mention that at 1440p it’s already 10% faster than the last 15.4” MBPs with Vega 20...so it doesn’t beat the latest 16” MBP with RDNA but it beats its predecessor...after a mere 2 years...helluva integrated graphics..

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

We don't because they're all shit...

 

And most of their battery life claims aren't even too impressive, like the Surface Pro X.

It's not just 20 hours of video playback. That's an extra few hours while video editing, or coding. Not needing to find a plug when you have time sensitive work on your hands and you're not near an outlet. A lot of people do care about battery life. Good on you if you don't, but I find it hard to believe that the majority of the population doesn't care about battery life.

Everyone cares about batterylife to an extent but after a certain amount alot of people don't. I like my car having a decent size fuel tank but that doesn't mean I will give up the back seats for a bigger tank especially when the current one is big enough. 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

To back up what NotTheFirstDaniel said about what it means for real-world battery life:

 

My work involves Photoshop, lots of browser tabs and Slack, let alone extras like music or social apps. My 13-inch MacBook Pro from 2013, even when new, couldn't realistically last a full workday under a load like that (to Apple's credit, its claimed battery life wasn't unrealistically higher). The M1-based MBP's battery certainly won't hit 20 hours under that kind of load, but it could mean never worrying about whether I'll have enough charge to complete a workday on-location (when on-location is a thing again) or during an extended power outage. That could be incredibly valuable.

Tbh that is a laptop from 2013 and isn't quite representative of what batterylife current gen laptops get. Even then most people won't go through an entire workday without access to an outlet while also needing to spend the entire workday on their laptop. Sire there have been times when I go the entire workday without access to an outlet but those days are ones where I am constantly moving and doing things and not sitting down to use a laptop. 

[Commodus]

2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Tbh that is a laptop from 2013 and isn't quite representative of what batterylife current gen laptops get. Even then most people won't go through an entire workday without access to an outlet while also needing to spend the entire workday on their laptop. Sire there have been times when I go the entire workday without access to an outlet but those days are ones where I am constantly moving and doing things and not sitting down to use a laptop. 

Those are true statements (although I'd note the 13-inch MBP still has good battery life relative to some laptops), but it seems like you're not grasping the point here: that some people do need or want that kind of battery life and will appreciate the gains. It might even change how you think about plugging in.

 

To put it another way: your usage model isn't the only one, and there are plenty of people who see laptops very differently.

[saltycaramel]

I’ve already said it but I think the battery life on these M1 laptops will blow people’s mind because it will be drained in a more “ipad-like” way...

Only heterogeneous cores and complete control over both the hw and the OS afford that..

iPad Air A14 5nm - 10hrs of web browsing

MBP 13” M1 5nm - 17hrs of web browsing

 

Now that they are no longer “dog years and human years”, the direct comparison of the above ratings provided by Apple could mean an all day battery life for the MBP...some people may even change how and where they use their laptop.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Tbh that is a laptop from 2013 and isn't quite representative of what batterylife current gen laptops get. Even then most people won't go through an entire workday without access to an outlet while also needing to spend the entire workday on their laptop. Sire there have been times when I go the entire workday without access to an outlet but those days are ones where I am constantly moving and doing things and not sitting down to use a laptop. 

Actually the 2013 Retina had a much bigger battery, and advertised only an hour less of battery life.

 

Apple's battery life claims have been stagnant since the 2012 Retina models, except for this M1 model of course.

 

MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports) - Technical Specifications (apple.com)

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) - Technical Specifications (apple.com)