rumor Rumored Specs for Apple's ARM Based MacBooks have "Leaked".

[SeraphicWings]

What the insert family-friendly content here, Apple?

 

The Macbook Air chassis is literally the perfect spot for ARM-based Mac, all they need to do is to take the 2020 chassis and put an ARM-based CPU in it, done. Why they choose to revive that horrendous single-port Macbook is beyond my understanding.

 

On the brighter side, guess I'm keeping my Macbook Air for another long while

[Commodus]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well it is MacOS, at this point it makes about as much sense to bring up as not being able to use Final Cut on Windows. Unless something changes MacOS is not and has never been a platform for playing PC games. Laptop gaming in general in my opinion is just bad anyway, spend less on the laptop and get a dedicated gaming system, go used if you have to with a new GPU or something.

 

Unless you just can't have a desktop PC spending significantly more on a laptop so you can play high end games just doesn't make sense to me. Not a fan of external GPUs either.

 

MacBook and MacBook Air while I think are a bit expensive for what they are they are still better value than gaming laptops.

I'm of a similar mindset -- it'd just be nice to play 'casual' Steam games like Return of the Obra Dinn without having to rely on Rosetta 2 and taking a slight performance hit (although the realization that it may only be a slight hit with a 3D game in Steam is a bit wild).

 

I'll say this: if Apple uses this as an opportunity to cut prices or at least offer more performance and battery than similarly priced rivals, the computer market could get... interesting. Well, I could buy this $1,200 Windows laptop that only gets 5 hours of real-world battery life and still isn't all that fast, or I could buy an $1,100 MacBook Pro that lasts 15 hours while offering better performance. (Not guaranteed this is how it'll work, but it's not far-fetched)

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, SeraphicWings said:

What the insert family-friendly content here, Apple?

 

The Macbook Air chassis is literally the perfect spot for ARM-based Mac, all they need to do is to take the 2020 chassis and put an ARM-based CPU in it, done. Why they choose to revive that horrendous single-port Macbook is beyond my understanding.

 

On the brighter side, guess I'm keeping my Macbook Air for another long while

It's a rumor from a dodgy source.  Wait until there's something more credible before you rail against Apple.  Besides, it's not like this would be the only ARM-based Mac Apple offered!

[SeraphicWings]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It's a rumor from a dodgy source.  Wait until there's something more credible before you rail against Apple.  Besides, it's not like this would be the only ARM-based Mac Apple offered!

I kinda lose my shit for a while there, we'll probably have to wait til the big announcement then, but I sincerely hope Apple doesn't bring that single-port disaster back again

[Commodus]

6 minutes ago, SeraphicWings said:

I kinda lose my shit for a while there, we'll probably have to wait til the big announcement then, but I sincerely hope Apple doesn't bring that single-port disaster back again

Look at it this way: even if it does, at least it'll take care of the other issues the 12-inch MacBook had (performance, a lousy keyboard, pricing and inadequate battery life relative to the CPU). You can fix a lack of ports with a dongle; you can't fix a Core M chip or butterfly keys.

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, SeraphicWings said:

What the insert family-friendly content here, Apple?

 

The Macbook Air chassis is literally the perfect spot for ARM-based Mac, all they need to do is to take the 2020 chassis and put an ARM-based CPU in it, done. Why they choose to revive that horrendous single-port Macbook is beyond my understanding.

 

On the brighter side, guess I'm keeping my Macbook Air for another long while

My suspicion is they won’t.  I did see reports of the programming mule which was more or less an iPad Pro with a usbC port instead of an Apple lightning connector and more memory.  This sounds like the programming mule is being reported as the final product.  So old news masquerading as new news.  The implication is that they can’t put more ports on the production model for some reason because the mule didn’t have them.  I find this doubtful.  If it is true Apple is going to have a problem I think.

 

I did also see reports that Apple is claiming thunderbolt will be on the new arm machine.  So 1 thunderbolt no other I/o? Or 1 thunderbolt  & 1 usbC?  That sort of at least leans near absolute squishy bare minimum usability.  2 and 2 would mean a port adaptor would only be needed for desktop replacement. 1 of any type would mean a port replicator box would have to be carried everywhere ruining portability and the usefulness of a desktop replacement replicator box.  Pure stupidity.

[thechinchinsong]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

I agree that criticism is good -- it just needs to be about products that are likely to exist, and based on reality. I've seen more than a few people in my day (not just here) who criticize Apple on things that haven't been true for years, if ever, because they either purposefully shield themselves from Apple products or are responding to stereotypes.

 

The thread does have a bit of immaturity and rage, albeit from a handful of people. They're the ones parroting false tropes about Macs being overpriced and made purposefully obsolete after a few years. There's a certain irony when they complain that Apple is 'evil' at the same time as they cheer on a total Windows monopoly and the death of meaningful market choice.

 

To get back to the point: there has been talk of a possible 12-inch ARM machine, but the analyst reports I've heard have pointed to a 13-inch MacBook Pro (possibly the entry-level model) being one of, if not the, first ARM-based Macs. That'd be far more accessible, not to mention a good showcase for what Apple can do with custom chips.

I mean the most I've seen in this thread are people complaining about the number of ports on the laptop and debating OS and software support on Apple/Windows platforms. Maybe my eyes just skip over irrelevant or offensive posts, but imo the negativity regarding Apples design choices with this new leak seem pretty justified.

[Jet_ski]

18 hours ago, Salv8 (sam) said:

but it looks like they won't in the future!

I would rather see an extra USB-C port instead of the audio jack. But I’m not sure if the logic board and processor can handle an extra port without splitting resources.

[Kisai]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:12 AM, gabrielcarvfer said:

Would be way better if it had an additional USB-C port (preferably with Thunderbolt) and a headphone jack. The rest of the specs seem reasonable for their public. The price is a completely different story. Most of us probably expected a price drop with the switch to ARM, as we have been told that it would happen to Windows laptops, but it was not the case.

The ideal laptop configuration:

 

10-14" configuration, 15-90w, aka "office laptop":

Full size keys, no number pad

16:9 IPS screen, touch, 1080p

Silent

Runs OS, Productivity/Office software

16-32GB ram

4-8 core

2 USB-C ports (one on each side)

2 USB-A ports (one on each side)

iGPU only

12 hour battery.

Powered by USB-C only

 

15-17" configuration, 100w-240w, aka "workstation or gaming laptop"

Full size keys, include number pad

16:10 IPS screen 1080p+

Silent until dGPU demands it

Runs everything

32GB+ RAM

8+ core

4 USB-C 3.x ports (two on each side)

 - All four connected to USB-PD, with them being all capable of driving a 4K USB-C (DP) monitor

4 USB-A 3.1 ports (two on each side)

iGPU part equal to x50 nVidia GPU part

dGPU part equal to x70 or x80 nVidia GPU part

8 hour battery

Dedicated power brick capable of running and charging the laptop. USB-C PD charging if enough PD sources are connected. (1 x 240w brick = 2 x 120w USB-C PD docks, or 3 x USB-C PD monitors with 90w)

 

 

With the office laptops, you are expected to us the docking station at the office, and because some offices make bone-headed purchasing decisions, they may or may not have USB-C PD docks. Hence why you need at least TWO USB-C ports, one to charge the laptop, and one to dock the laptop in this situation. If you use a powered dock or a USB-C monitor, this isn't a problem.

 

With more powerful laptops, you actually want an assortment of ports, but ideally you just use the ports on a docking station itself, but since it's more likely that these machines act as portable desktops, it must be considered that the user will just plug everything into the laptop itself and only resort to docking stations or usb-hubs when they run out of ports.  There is no reason to have HDMI or DP ports on a laptop if the USB-C ports can replace them, Dongle-hell for some users, but still better than having to have dongles for each port type on the laptop (eg having HDMI to VGA/DVI and DP to VGA or DVI, like I had to use with some laptops.)

 

One thing that keeps being discounted here is WiFi and Bluetooth. If we do eventually get to a point where 5G is everywhere, a laptop may have three radios in it, 5G, WiFi, and BT, and wireless drains batteries far faster than just plugging in ethernet. Most of the users I have talked to, prefer wireless mice, but they almost all entirely use microsoft/logitech mice that have the proprietary 2.4ghz dongle rather than BT. At some point we will get to a point where all accessories can be wireless, but most users just don't understand bluetooth. So as long as there are USB-A ports, those are going to be used for wireless mice.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The ideal laptop configuration:

 

10-14" configuration, 15-90w, aka "office laptop":

Full size keys, no number pad

16:9 IPS screen, touch, 1080p

Silent

Runs OS, Productivity/Office software

16-32GB ram

4-8 core

2 USB-C ports (one on each side)

2 USB-A ports (one on each side)

iGPU only

12 hour battery.

Powered by USB-C only

 

15-17" configuration, 100w-240w, aka "workstation or gaming laptop"

Full size keys, include number pad

16:10 IPS screen 1080p+

Silent until dGPU demands it

Runs everything

32GB+ RAM

8+ core

4 USB-C 3.x ports (two on each side)

 - All four connected to USB-PD, with them being all capable of driving a 4K USB-C (DP) monitor

4 USB-A 3.1 ports (two on each side)

iGPU part equal to x50 nVidia GPU part

dGPU part equal to x70 or x80 nVidia GPU part

8 hour battery

Dedicated power brick capable of running and charging the laptop. USB-C PD charging if enough PD sources are connected. (1 x 240w brick = 2 x 120w USB-C PD docks, or 3 x USB-C PD monitors with 90w)

 

 

With the office laptops, you are expected to us the docking station at the office, and because some offices make bone-headed purchasing decisions, they may or may not have USB-C PD docks. Hence why you need at least TWO USB-C ports, one to charge the laptop, and one to dock the laptop in this situation. If you use a powered dock or a USB-C monitor, this isn't a problem.

 

With more powerful laptops, you actually want an assortment of ports, but ideally you just use the ports on a docking station itself, but since it's more likely that these machines act as portable desktops, it must be considered that the user will just plug everything into the laptop itself and only resort to docking stations or usb-hubs when they run out of ports.  There is no reason to have HDMI or DP ports on a laptop if the USB-C ports can replace them, Dongle-hell for some users, but still better than having to have dongles for each port type on the laptop (eg having HDMI to VGA/DVI and DP to VGA or DVI, like I had to use with some laptops.)

 

One thing that keeps being discounted here is WiFi and Bluetooth. If we do eventually get to a point where 5G is everywhere, a laptop may have three radios in it, 5G, WiFi, and BT, and wireless drains batteries far faster than just plugging in ethernet. Most of the users I have talked to, prefer wireless mice, but they almost all entirely use microsoft/logitech mice that have the proprietary 2.4ghz dongle rather than BT. At some point we will get to a point where all accessories can be wireless, but most users just don't understand bluetooth. So as long as there are USB-A ports, those are going to be used for wireless mice.

 

 

I don’t think the problem is understanding, the problem is pita.  Apple is about “it just works”. Letting people get on with what they’re doing instead of twiddling about with hardware.  Bluetooth stuff requires twiddling about.   Any radio based stuff requires twiddling about.  I could likely have unhorked my print-from-my-phone thing eventually.  After twenty minutes of puttering.  Or I could just go plug the thing in.  That’s “it just works” 

[mr moose]

Like it or not, many people just don't see a difference between mac books and many other cheaper laptops.  Convince yourselves anyway you want if you want to spend the extra.  but for the rest of us we are entitled to our experience without being called immature or ragey.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Not really sure on that. I'd say it depends on a few factors including, but not limited to: analog circuitry (good part of the radio power consumption comes from this link), signal processing should be similar (and companies are starting to rethink if PAM signaling of wired connections should be replaced by QAM as in radio, to increase throughput), the transmission power (which I believe is higher in wired connections, but I'm no specialist in IEEE 802.3 link).

 

If it depended on me, peripherals like mouses, keyboards and headphones would use 6GHz with very low power, to limit range and increase frequency reutilization. It makes no sense to use 2.4GHz on those peripherals, waste power and be able to see neighbor's stuff popping up on your screen.

 

I like wirelessly connected stuff, when they work. Absolutely hate cables, even when they work. Cables are only acceptable because they "magically" create additional bandwidth and copper ones can deliver power very efficiently.

That’s the kicker though.  “When it works” cablelessness is nice, but it comes at the cost of reliability and “just works”.  Radio stuff is getting worse not better.  There are massive security problems that just keep on growing and staying ahead of them requires more and more complication.  Sometimes it’s not even possible.  How long before I have to two factor identify headphones?  Pairing already sucks. Everything with a liPo battery in it is disposable, toxic waste, and a potential fire hazard.  Totally ignoring that such things increase cost by a factor of ten.  The least annoying use of wireless peripherals is wireless charging.  The range is terrible and the charging speed is glacial, but it’s simple.  You drop the device on the pad and poof it works.  I was an early adoptor of wireless charging.  I didn’t do it because wireless charging was better.  It’s not.  I did it because microUSB2 was literally that bad.  It STILL worked better than wireless charging but it had massive reliability problems and wore out even faster than rechargeable batteries. Cables CAN be worse than wireless.  Frequently though they’re not.  Bad design (which was what MicroUSB2 was plagued by) makes things worse.  Bluetooth isn’t bad design but it’s so annoying just to make work even good design isn’t saving it.   I’ve got two pairs of Bluetooth headphones.  They’re such a pain I’d rather just not listen to music.  The speaker in my phone is crap and might as well be mono, but it’s still better than digging those stupid things out. 

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Can't really agree with that, but I get that crowded channels and severe security/implementation flaws are really bothersome.

 

Also, as a professor used to say (don't really remember the OG source/citation): the ease of use is inversily proportional to the security. In other words, if you want ease of use, you will definitely give up on security, and vice versa.

 

Completely agree. Still waiting on the WiTricity promise of longer range charging and higher efficiency than conventional induction, plus small buffer capacitor/batteries to smooth out fluctuations.

 

Bluetooth standard is horrible. The WiFi one is way better, but the forced backwards compatibility is nonsensical in my opinion. They should start retiring .11b|a, then .11g, then .11n|ac, to make sure .11ax is the only one used.

it comes down to perspective I think.  I gauge stuff by does it have enough bandwidth that I’m not screwed when I try to download something and how often do I have to go down to the basement and reboot the router. By that standard a was better than g.  It had nothing to do with the tech, just the environment it was being used in. I know a guy who went from g to a just because for a while that was actually perceptually better because even though it was slow at least it would stay up.  Ethernet is a steaming pita to install and expensive to boot but people are still doing it because after it is in there is no more BS. 

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

.11b is not better than .11g, but it is more resilient to noise/attenuation due to different modulation and coding scheme (MCS).  .11a operates at 5GHz, it is more than fair to have a shorter range.

 

.11ax offers similar resilience to .11b|a with lower MCS values and great performance similar to n/ac2 with higher MCS values, while allowing multiple users to use a single channel, vastly reducing WiFi latency.

I was talking about a vs. g but it doesn’t matter.  The issue was when I had g the WiFi going out and needing to be rebooted was a weekly to biweekly occurrence.  By that definition it is worse completely independent of what is going on inside the box.  A  Viewpoint issue.

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

 

If it depended on me, peripherals like mouses, keyboards and headphones would use 6GHz with very low power, to limit range and increase frequency reutilization. It makes no sense to use 2.4GHz on those peripherals, waste power and be able to see neighbor's stuff popping up on your screen.

 

My perspective is that I hate wireless due to the security holes, and I hate wireless due to the radiated power is rather unchecked. If you have the option to use the wired connection, absolutely use it instead. 

 

I went out of my way to buy a wired Xbox 360 controller and never used the wireless ones. I never bought the PS3 or PS4, for a much similar reason of I hated the heavy wireless controllers, and they weigh up to 50% more than an iPhone, and last not nearly as long.

 

I'd like to see bluetooth pairing go away entirely except between two devices that are both computer devices (eg a smartphone and a car kit), for everything that is not a computer the device should have the wireless charging system actually pair it to the device, with an option to "turn off auto-pairing unrecognized devices" . Pairing a keyboard by blindly entering the PIN, or pairing a headset by just hitting "OK" seems like a stupidly unreasonable security issue , especially in an office where everyone within 30ft of you has the exact same devices.

 

[leadeater]

49 minutes ago, Kisai said:

I never bought the PS3 or PS4, for a much similar reason of I hated the heavy wireless controllers, and they weigh up to 50% more than an iPhone, and last not nearly as long.

What?!? PS3 controller is very light, basically the same as any modern phone and you hold it with two hands with grip support. PS4 controller is a bit heavier but, and here is the big but, neither are even close to the weight of a wired Xbox 360 controller. It's 300g vs 192g & 210g, which btw the wired version is heavier than the wireless which is a bit lol, but w/e.

 

Spoiler

Neither the PS3 or PS4 controller is 50% heavier than most of the iPhones where as a wired Xbox 360 controller as at a minimum 33% heavier and worst case 210% heavier.

 

Edit:

Also the PS3 controller goes for days without needing to be charged.

[captain_to_fire]

16 hours ago, leadeater said:

MacBook and MacBook Air while I think are a bit expensive for what they are they are still better value than gaming laptops.

I remember in 2011 when my roommate chided me because I bought a MacBook Air with an i5 Sandy Bridge when I could get a AMD APU ultrabook for much cheaper, notwithstanding the fact that during that time Snow Leopard was superior than Windows 7 imo. Sandy Bridge was better than the AMD equivalent that time, and most PC ultrabooks that either come with a meh SSHD or a 2.5” HDD afaik. 
 

I loved that laptop a lot until it died in 2015.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

a AMD APU ultrabook for much cheaper

You'd have to be a complete fool to buy that though, I mean I have an AMD laptop from that era (not a good APU even for AMD) and it's soooooo bad. SOOOOOOooooo bad 

[captain_to_fire]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

You'd have to be a complete fool to buy that though, I mean I have an AMD laptop from that era (not a good APU even for AMD) and it's soooooo bad. SOOOOOOooooo bad 

Well my roommate insists back then that his triple core AMD APU laptop (Acer) is faster than my i5 Sandy Bridge MacBook Air and he’s the one studying IT for college.

[LAwLz]

Seems pretty good for the price actually.

A bit disappointed that the leak was just "it has an A14X" rather than actually tell us what the A14X will be like.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

What?!? PS3 controller is very light, basically the same as any modern phone and you hold it with two hands with grip support. PS4 controller is a bit heavier but, and here is the big but, neither are even close to the weight of a wired Xbox 360 controller. It's 300g vs 192g & 210g, which btw the wired version is heavier than the wireless which is a bit lol, but w/e.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Neither the PS3 or PS4 controller is 50% heavier than most of the iPhones where as a wired Xbox 360 controller as at a minimum 33% heavier and worst case 210% heavier.

 

Edit:

Also the PS3 controller goes for days without needing to be charged.

The PS3 controller was only light because they removed the force feedback from the launch models (the sixaxis model, 137g), the dualshock 3 (192g), 2 and 4 (210g) are heavier than an iPhone XS (177g) and about tied for the XS Max (208g). The Xbox 360 wired controller, weighs less than the battery operated model because it has no batteries and no battery compartment. Weighing the two doesn't generate enough of a difference to register between them on the scale without the batteries, I'd need a postage scale. The Xbox One controller is 280g, 233 without batteries.

 

Anyways that's missing the point. The wireless controllers weigh more when the batteries are installed, and more than holding a cell phone in most cases, without the battery life of the cell phone. Would it not make sense to either make a removable LiPo battery or just run the entire controller in wired mode if you don't want the have the weight of the battery?

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The Xbox 360 wired controller, weighs less than the battery operated model because it has no batteries and no battery compartment.

No it isn't, official spec has the wired version at 300g (cable weight which fine you don't actually hold so take it off) and wireless 265g with batteries. But if you want to throw out missing the point statements how about you're entire reasoning for going with an Xbox 360 controller and referencing the PS3 & PS4 controllers because they are wireless and therefore heavier which just is simply not factually correct.

 

And in most cases no they are not heavier than a phone, not the PS3 or PS4 controller as they are literally the average weight of phones right now.

 

I know this doesn't matter but it was just a bit absurd to state you got an Xbox 360 controller because a PS3 or PS4 controller is heavier when there is no variant of any that is  as heavy.

 

If you can one hand a phone you can two hand a controller.

[Kisai]

11 hours ago, leadeater said:

I know this doesn't matter but it was just a bit absurd to state you got an Xbox 360 controller because a PS3 or PS4 controller is heavier when there is no variant of any that is  as heavy.

 

If you can one hand a phone you can two hand a controller.

No, I got the wired Xbox 360 controller because the battery version is heavier. I didn't invest in the PS3 or PS4 because there was no wired option, which meant they were heavier than they needed to be.

 

Maybe you just don't care, but one-size-fits-all is never the case.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

I didn't invest in the PS3 or PS4 because there was no wired option, which meant they were heavier than they needed to be.

Yet still lighter than what you purchased and both can be used with a cable. Don't take the comments like I'm saying DS3 or DS4 controllers would have been better choice because they are not for PC usage, I use them but a Microsoft style one is better, but if you're going to reference weight as an issue then why on earth do so for something that actually weighs more. Like you're arguing Utes are too heavy of a vehicle for your liking so brought a full size RV instead, which are heavier and larger.

 

Dunno, but somehow I think you're missing the issue with your reasoning. It makes no difference if they could have been lighter, they ARE lighter than what you purchased.

[Kisai]

10 hours ago, leadeater said:

Dunno, but somehow I think you're missing the issue with your reasoning. It makes no difference if they could have been lighter, they ARE lighter than what you purchased.

My dad had some Xinput/Xbox360 compatible controllers and they all felt pretty cheap and didn't work very well, and were wireless. Please don't hyperfocus on this this. 

 

A) Wireless sucks

B) Heavy battery controllers hurt faster.

 

I want a controller that is not wireless, doesn't have the extra weight of the batteries, and the best compromise there was was the wired 360 controller. The wired 360's weight is almost entirely in it's haptic motors. 

 

The problem is that you're adding like 60g to use it with batteries. Where as the wireless one is the exact same controller just with a different back that has no battery compartment.

 

My favorite controller was the SNES pad, but the SNES pad is not an x-input controller.

This, is supposed to be lighter (than the xbox 360), wireless/wired, and have a removable battery:

https://www.8bitdo.com/sn30-pro-plus/

 

However I'm really not enthusiastic about buying 8bitdo's products either. 

 

If you've seen what I've said before in countless threads, I don't like wireless accessory products, between the latency and crappy battery life, they are never a good investment, and if the battery can't be removed, they're also unrepairable once the battery dies. 

 

I'm not even sure why the PS4 doesn't have a removable battery, they clearly designed it to have a user-removable one at some stage.