Vegetarians/Vegans. [Poll]

[Le Lion de Barreras]

killing/ pain? you do know plants are living creatures too? you and the animals eat the same thing and you don't want to kill, overpopulation is a problem for people and vegetation is growing thinner and you want to save everything that eats vegetation by living on vegetation yourself? Good luck keeping the Circle of life balanced that way mate. Sorry I am not trying to be a douche, but I get these conversations all the time by people I know irl so this topic kind of just plain puts me off.

They're not creatures but they're living organisms.

 

yeah well, but plants dont feel. of course they live.

Overpopulation is also not really a thing, the earth could handle a lot more people IF we used the space we have in a good way. Also, why would the circle be unbalanced? There were "veggys" in form of herbivores long before the humans and there wasnt a single problem.

There are some research that proves plants are alive and most often when they're picked and eaten they're still "alive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/vegetables-internal-clocks-circadian-rhythms_n_3474104.html

They do not feel pain but you're still eating a live organism. 

[Guest GRRigger]

Nope. There'd be no need to breed animals since there would be less demand for meat. So the animal population in the category of what we eat would shrink a bit. Companies that do offer the option of selling meat might increase prices in order to cover the loss' since the demand of meat would be low. What would increase is the prices of vegetables since there will be a much larger demand.

I think you will find demand and price in food economy isnt as precisely same as AMD video cards

Becasue demand meats ( meats ) the supply and vice versa. Do you really think the economists wouldt be opportunists and take a chance growing more crops if everyone suddenly go vegan? There is plenty of supply. I am not economist, but since we live in competitive market, unless food companies unite and raise prices because "Demand is high" we can even get lower prices. Well supply is also big, can go bigger, and is very competitive.

 

You put much more money, time, energy, water, crops into 1 kilo of meat, than if you grow 1 kilo of crops. Thats why china is living on rice and not animals, stuffed with animals, that were force-fed other animals.

[Cryptonite]

yeah well, but plants dont feel. of course they live.

Overpopulation is also not really a thing, the earth could handle a lot more people IF we used the space we have in a good way. Also, why would the circle be unbalanced? There were "veggys" in form of herbivores long before the humans and there wasnt a single problem.

Yes, but the people I know that are vegans / vegetarians want everyone to be that way, including other animals, that's how the circle would break. Also plants in a sense "bleed" and try to protect themselves with a lot of different methods, ofc they don't feel or strive to survive.

other herbivore animals don't have as much control as humans do. 

 

They're not creatures but they're living organisms.

 

There are some research that proves plants are alive and most often when they're picked and eaten they're still "alive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/vegetables-internal-clocks-circadian-rhythms_n_3474104.html

They do not feel pain but you're still eating a live organism. 

you know what I meant.

 

 

I think you will find demand and price in food economy isnt as precisely same as AMD video cards

Becasue demand meats ( meats ) the supply and vice versa. Do you really think the economists wouldt be opportunists and take a chance growing more crops if everyone suddenly go vegan? There is plenty of supply. I am not economist, but since we live in competitive market, unless food companies unite and raise prices because "Demand is high" we can even get lower prices. Well supply is also big, can go bigger, and is very competitive.

 

You put much more money, time, energy, water, crops into 1 kilo of meat, than if you grow 1 kilo of crops. Thats why china is living on rice and not animals, stuffed with animals, that were force-fed other animals.

Can you imagine how many more illegal killings of animals there would be if that would surface? once greed gets involved on such a level then people will start killing animals off to prevent them from "stealing" their crops.

I eat both, Meat and Veggies / pasta/ fruit / whatever and believe that that's the way it was intended to be since I can eat as much as I want without gaining much weight or getting ill too easily. Balance is everything.

 

 

And yes, I do not have enough faith in humanity, but that's because I tend to underestimate how messed up we are.

[Vitalius]

yeah well, but plants dont feel. of course they live.

Overpopulation is also not really a thing, the earth could handle a lot more people IF we used the space we have in a good way. Also, why would the circle be unbalanced? There were "veggys" in form of herbivores long before the humans and there wasnt a single problem.

"Don't feel", define "feel". They most certainly have the ability to experience sensation due to their surroundings. How do you think they know when winter is coming? Or where the sunlight is to grow towards it?

If you mean pain, they most certainly do know how to experience the feeling of loss (i.e. cutting a limb, losing sunlight or leaves, etc), because they react to it. 

They just don't scream  and they aren't like us (i.e. red blood, heartbeat, etc) when they die. 

They're not creatures but they're living organisms.

 

There are some research that proves plants are alive and most often when they're picked and eaten they're still "alive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/vegetables-internal-clocks-circadian-rhythms_n_3474104.html

They do not feel pain but you're still eating a live organism. 

Read above. Define "feel" and "pain". Do you mean suffering? I can't think of an objective way to measure whether a plant can "suffer".

 

If pain is defined as reaction to destructive stimuli (i.e. I lost a limb, therefore I will do something to fix it and avoid what took that limb.), then they do feel pain.

[Scionyde]

Answered 'no' to both parts of the poll, because the thought of never having bacon again brings a tear to my eye :'(

 

I eat meat, but I usually just end up limiting it to a couple times a week.

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I eat meat.  Always will.  If we weren't supposed to, it wouldn't taste so good.

 

I also hunt/kill/butcher most of my own meat.  I can get about 200lbs of meat per deer season for a 22$ license and some time in the woods.

 

I don't have a problem with vegetarians/vegans...you can choose to deny your bodies nutrients all you want.  The thing I don't like is the aire of self importance and the need to tell me about how awesome they are that they don't eat animals.  They're worse than any religious group I've ever met in that regard.

No body cares about your diet but you.

[themaniac]

Answered 'no' to both parts of the poll, because the thought of never having bacon again brings a tear to my eye :'(

 

I eat meat, but I usually just end up limiting it to a couple times a week.

the fear of never having steak brings 10 gallons of tears to my eye's

[Le Lion de Barreras]

I think you will find demand and price in food economy isnt as precisely same as AMD video cards

Becasue demand meats ( meats ) the supply and vice versa. Do you really think the economists wouldt be opportunists and take a chance growing more crops if everyone suddenly go vegan? There is plenty of supply. I am not economist, but since we live in competitive market, unless food companies unite and raise prices because "Demand is high" we can even get lower prices. Well supply is also big, can go bigger, and is very competitive.

 

You put much more money, time, energy, water, crops into 1 kilo of meat, than if you grow 1 kilo of crops. Thats why china is living on rice and not animals, stuffed with animals, that were force-fed other animals.

Maybe the prices on vegetables and greens may not increase due to being a more competitive market out there with more demands. But I was mainly trying to argue the fact the price in meat might increase not decrease unless you didn't classify "meat" as everything.

 

"Don't feel", define "feel". They most certainly have the ability to experience sensation due to their surroundings. How do you think they know when winter is coming? Or where the sunlight is to grow towards it?

If you mean pain, they most certainly do know how to experience the feeling of loss (i.e. cutting a limb, losing sunlight or leaves, etc), because they react to it. 

They just don't scream  and they aren't like us (i.e. red blood, heartbeat, etc) when they die. 

Read above. Define "feel" and "pain". Do you mean suffering? I can't think of an objective way to measure whether a plant can "suffer".

 

If pain is defined as reaction to destructive stimuli (i.e. I lost a limb, therefore I will do something to fix it and avoid what took that limb.), then they do feel pain.

The problem is there isn't enough evidence to support the evidence if they do feel pain. As they don't have nervous system or brain. They way I think of pain is suffering, hurting. And if they do feel that then surely being a vegetarian is a cruel as well.

 

you know what I meant.

 

Yeah, sorry if I came off in the wrong way.

[Thorium19]

I know a few veggies, my sister is practically one, only ever eats meat when we have a roast dinner (go figure). I personally am one who cannot go without a good bit of meat, especially medium rare steak. However my view on vegetarianism is that those who are veggies are eating the food that animals eat, therefore limiting their food supply and resulting in more animals dying of starvation, instead of being killed to be eaten. This could lead to extinction if vegetarianism/vegan ism was on a large enough scale (I.e. Everyone) and hold in mind that more and more land is being taken up for renewable energy sources I.e. Wind farms, biofuel growth, solar farms etc. and the amount of land needed to grow the food for everyone on the planet to be vegetarian/vegan as well is practically impossible without the development of heavily GM crops, which almost all of the non meat eaters I know completely disagree on.

[TeKNiQue]

lol I don't give a fuck about "sustainable development", I'll be dead or old when (if, probably not) more problems surrounding the environment emerge and if current problems grow until they become a bigger problem than they are today. So you could say that I'm a miserable bastard who only cares about himself, and a few others.

 

Go ahead, tell me I'm crazy. 

[Cwazywazy]

Definitely not a vegetarian and I have no plans to ever become one.

[Skylark]

 

There are some research that proves plants are alive and most often when they're picked and eaten they're still "alive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/vegetables-internal-clocks-circadian-rhythms_n_3474104.html

They do not feel pain but you're still eating a live organism. 

 

I love people that cite the huffington post as "research" lol.

 

There is always a strong debate on topics like "Plants have feelings too" "You dont eat meat but you eat plants that are alive" etc.  Maybe Im different from a lot of vegetarians, but I could care less what other people eat.  My friends would order a steak in front of me and tease me "Oh it tastes like murder, its so delicious" etc, wouldnt ever bother or phase me.  As I got older I've realized that arguments like this are futile.  You're not going to change the opinion of someone over an internet debate... So do whatever makes you happy.  If you like meat, go ahead and eat a 72Oz steak.  I can only influence the decisions I make for my self, and personally I choose to abstain as I dont have any need for meat in my diet. 

[ShiverMePenguins]

nope, nor spare ribs.

 

common misconception, it's actually much cheaper

hella true. i think i spend maybe 3-5$ a day on meals and snacks when i'm going vegan.

[ShiverMePenguins]

and with that said, i still have the desire for meat, mostly because of the addictive chemicals that they are laced with nowadays.

 

so sometimes i eat a 24 oz steak and then cry.

[Le Lion de Barreras]

I love people that cite the huffington post as "research" lol.

 

There is always a strong debate on topics like "Plants have feelings too" "You dont eat meat but you eat plants that are alive" etc.  Maybe Im different from a lot of vegetarians, but I could care less what other people eat.  My friends would order a steak in front of me and tease me "Oh it tastes like murder, its so delicious" etc, wouldnt ever bother or phase me.  As I got older I've realized that arguments like this are futile.  You're not going to change the opinion of someone over an internet debate... So do whatever makes you happy.  If you like meat, go ahead and eat a 72Oz steak.  I can only influence the decisions I make for my self, and personally I choose to abstain as I dont have any need for meat in my diet. 

I just did a google search and picked an article site. Surely there's more out there. And I Agree with you. I really don't care what people eat. People should eat what they want.

[Jaybird]

Here's my lunch!

[Skreedles]

Hello fellow LTT'lers,

 

i had a conversation with some guys on Facebook about the pro's and con's of being/becoming a Vegetarian/Vegan yesterday. Sadly it ended with some guy telling me to shut the fuck up without him even stating a single thing. They obviously were out of reasons for not being Veggy. I was the only Veggy/smart guy in that "discussion" btw.

 

So i thought, why not ask other intelligent guys here on the forums for their opinion? The whole veggy thing is actually slowly becoming a thing here in germany but i think its very different in for example the US.

 

I made this little poll for you to answer and i'd be so happy if you, in addition to that, state WHY exactly you chose your answer above.

 

 

 

Thanks and greetings,

Flo

 

How can you judge how "smart" a person is simply by talking to them for a little while and hearing an opinion, did you put them through an objectified test?

[Guest GRRigger]

However my view on vegetarianism is that those who are veggies are eating the food that animals eat, therefore limiting their food supply and resulting in more animals dying of starvation, instead of being killed to be eaten.

what animals are you talking about. we, people, breed them. and we grow our own crops.

 

This could lead to extinction if vegetarianism/vegan ism was on a large enough scale (I.e. Everyone) and hold in mind that more and more land is being taken up for renewable energy sources I.e. Wind farms, biofuel growth, solar farms etc. and the amount of land needed to grow the food for everyone on the planet to be vegetarian/vegan as well is practically impossible without the development of heavily GM crops, which almost all of the non meat eaters I know completely disagree on.

 

My brain is starting to hurt now. If i dont stop reading this i will loose my common sence.

What have wind farms, biofuel growth solar farms have anything to do with it? We have enough land.

We put MORE resources(like crops) into meat/dairy than we GET FROM IT. We grow GM crops to Feed animals with also.

 

I studied food, health, bio,... for 5 years and I have voluntarily, and completelly by myself do research. And there is absolutelly no restraints, no restraints at all that would prevent us from going vegetarian OR vegan. There are only benefits.

 

Obesity rate in america is like 80% isnt it? Well then... there is more food than we could ever need. We can feed the world if we stop wasting resources.

 

Crops are cheapest and easiest way to get energy. Both protein and carbohydrates.

[LAwLz]

No, because it's not healthy. Seriously, almost all vegetarians lacks protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin B-12, calcium and some other things (depending on what you eat of course).

I am not a super interested in health, but I don't go out of my way to avoid things my body needs.

 

Being a vegetarian is extremely hard if you want to get the same kind of nutrition as a non-vegetarian. Not to mention that you sound like an asshole when you are out and then refuse to eat certain food, or have to bother your friends to make food specially for you.

It's not healthy, and I don't think it is unethical, so I don't see any reason to become one. I won't try to push my opinion onto others though (like OP does).

 

 

 

We put MORE resources(like crops) into meat/dairy than we GET FROM IT. We grow GM crops to Feed animals with also.

What you don't take into consideration is that a lot of the things we feed animals are such things humans can't eat. Sure producing meat is pretty wasteful in terms of how much resources you have to put in, but those resources are not usable for anything else to begin with.

 

 

Saw that someone brought up "organic" stuff earlier in the thread. I am strongly against that as well. It tastes worse (there have been lots of blind tests done to prove this), it is more toxic (they still use pesticides in organic farming, and they are not allowed to use modern pesticides which are less harmful to humans, and more effective, simply because they are synthetic) and it's simply not a sustainable solution to feed all people in the world.

"Organic" food is just mental masturbation. It makes you feel good, but it's actually worse in every objective way. Just do regular masturbation instead, it's a lot more fun and actually has real benefits.

[Jaybird]

What have wind farms, biofuel growth solar farms have anything to do with it? We have enough land.

We put MORE resources(like crops) into meat/dairy than we GET FROM IT. We grow GM crops to Feed animals with also.

 

I studied food, health, bio,... for 5 years and I have voluntarily, and completelly by myself do research. And there is absolutelly no restraints, no restraints at all that would prevent us from going vegetarian OR vegan. There are only benefits.

 

Obesity rate in america is like 80% isnt it? Well then... there is more food than we could ever need. We can feed the world if we stop wasting resources.

 

Crops are cheapest and easiest way to get energy. Both protein and carbohydrates.

umm. Ive traveled outside of the U.S. and locals are fat there too. From what i precieve, peoples perspective on the outside world is nearly false. im not saying there arent people starving. just saying that this isolated figure (pun in tended) of Americans are fat is a miss conception.

[FloRolf]

Well, the lack of some important substances for the body isnt really a good point. You can get everything in form of pìlls or something to mix in your food nowadays. Even for a relativley cheap price.

Another important point would be, that plants produce less CO2 than e.g. cows. Actually they do exactly the opposite. It is known, that the methan cows produce is as bad for the environment as the stuff cars throw out there, or even worse!

[Almercenary]

Im not one really, but I don't see why people hate them so much...I mean its just personal (or parents) choice

[Darkspacekilla]

I've been vegetarian for 1 year and I'm still going strong. Meat is not only cruel, but also a waste of our resources. Over 150 Billion animals are raised and slaughtered every year; this equates to LOTS of CO2 emissions.

 

Me being vegetarian gives me the right to waste lots of gas driving my 5.7L Hemi Durango, and yes I live in Minnesota

 

I would much rather have fun driving a powerful SUV than supporting the cruel slaughter of animals

I wouldn't have a job unless cows were killed to be eaten "i'm a farmer" so that's why I support meat also with the amount of land being used to rear cattle it basically makes the process carbon neutral and another thing if CO2 wasn't produced then all the grass and trees would die because they need to respire too and another thing is I live in Ireland and basically all my land is shit i.e not good enough to grow anything on it other than grass

[Cwazywazy]

[Not an argument about vegetarianism or not]

 

Anyone like 5 Guys? One of my favorite places to eat. (Really good fries and free peanuts. My vegetarian sister eats there sometimes too.)

[Guest GRRigger]

No, because it's not healthy. Seriously, almost all vegetarians lacks protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin B-12, calcium and some other things (depending on what you eat of course).

Oh, did you use google? How cute. Out of those, iron and B12 are critical. But you can find b12 in fermeted soya products, and iron is in vegetables. Yes, there are enough resources to get all essential aminoacids in vegan diet.

 

Again, you can suppliment every single thing your body needs. I will say it again, there are no restraints that we couldnt go vegan at all.

 

What you don't take into consideration is that a lot of the things we feed animals are such things humans can't eat. Sure producing meat is pretty wasteful in terms of how much resources you have to put in, but those resources are not usable for anything else to begin with.

What makes you think "Those resources" are free? Crops not usable? WE SEED THEM! Do you realize how much land, water, energy, TIME, CROPS, is needed for one steak? You could feed a family of 4 entire week for lunch on the crops you would instead eat yourself!

 

 

And please, if you will use Organic, in any sentece, read what it means first. A garden beside my house is pretty much organic.

 

And i am not here to say go vegan nor vegetarian. I eat everything, or what i want. You CAN go vegan. And there are benefits, economical and health related. And there are definitly reasons, why someone would stop entirely eating sausages ( worst of all meat products ), and only eat red meat once a week, or even month.

 

Most people dont get enough omega 3. And most people dont even know that! Why are you not complaining about that? Fish are rich in easy to embedd omega 3 in people. Yet people only eat red meat. Its harmful and they say being a vegan is. Give me a break! Vegans eat more omega 3 than most people. Why? They strive to eat everything they need.

And how many diseases could be prevented. You have to pay for your diseases too. Healthcare is not free either.

Directly connected to diet and MEAT.