Vegetarians/Vegans. [Poll]

[LAwLz]

I'm going to start with this because it personally irks me. Society doesn't have the resources to take this approach with everyone. I understand being a skeptic by nature, but this is an unhealthy position to take regarding hot and important topics. I consider it a cop out. By nature.

If someone claims that there are health and economic benefits to being a vegetarian then I want proof. If you don't have proof, don't make wild claims. It's as simple as that. He made a claim, and I want proof.

It's not a cop out to demand that people back their arguments up. If you didn't have to prove the points you make you could just say anything and then go "well you can't demand proof for everything I say" as soon as someone says "that can't be right".

 

Taxes. It's never truly free.

Fair enough. That wasn't really an argument. I was just mocking him.

 

Admittedly, sometimes the problems with meats is that you get too much of something you need. Because you can OD on anything, even water. A good example is Salt (and other spices), which is usually used to season meat/prevent it from rotting. So most meats are saturated in it. And you do need some salt to survive.

That has nothing to do with my argument. My argument was "why eat a bunch of pills if I don't have to?". I am not sure about you, but I don't buy preseasoned meat. It makes the meat drier. Here is the thing though, I am arguing for "just eat whatever you want. It's not healthy to completely avoid certain things. A good balance of everything is best". I am not saying that you should eat a steak everyday for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What I am saying is that it's not a good idea to completely refuse to eat it. Not only because it makes you a huge dick when someone invites you over, but also because you will most likely starve yourself of certain things our body needs (such as the things I listed in an earlier post).

 

 

See CoC, "Don't be a dick" Wil Wheaton. Also, the Bill & Ted quote about being excellent and such.

Personally I don't think I was being a dick. I asked him if he really believed what he said, and then posted a source to back my claim up. Compare that to his posts where he has often write in all caps, swears, calls me mental, calls me insane and stupid, I think I am being very nice and reasonable.

[Misanthrope]

As with every time food gets brought up, it quickly devolves into sanctimonious lecturing from vegans and overzealous responses from omnivores. Humans like meat, it tastes good because through millions of years we evolved to gain sustenance from it as do all predators.

It is just as simple as that really, all other reasons are politically motivated and dare I say, most vegans and vegetarians are choosing that diet for political reasons, not logical ones. Me? I rather distant myself from all those topics, not because I'm not a highly political person, but because I hate demagogy and misrepresentation from people who mix up the animal rights and green agenda with a socio-economical leftist position.

[Vitalius]

If someone claims that there are health and economic benefits to being a vegetarian then I want proof. If you don't have proof, don't make wild claims. It's as simple as that. He made a claim, and I want proof.

It's not a cop out to demand that people back their arguments up. If you didn't have to prove the points you make you could just say anything and then go "well you can't demand proof for everything I say" as soon as someone says "that can't be right".

 

Fair enough. That wasn't really an argument. I was just mocking him.

 

That has nothing to do with my argument. My argument was "why eat a bunch of pills if I don't have to?". I am not sure about you, but I don't buy preseasoned meat. It makes the meat drier. Here is the thing though, I am arguing for "just eat whatever you want. It's not healthy to completely avoid certain things. A good balance of everything is best". I am not saying that you should eat a steak everyday for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What I am saying is that it's not a good idea to completely refuse to eat it. Not only because it makes you a huge dick when someone invites you over, but also because you will most likely starve yourself of certain things our body needs (such as the things I listed in an earlier post).

Oh, right, I forgot. Humans lack common sense now. Great. 

It's not. I agree. It's a cop out to ask for the best possible proof humanity has to offer. Because that implies you will accept nothing less. Which, to me, kind of makes you a prude. Also, I reiterate the common sense thing.

Most people who eat meat eat pre-seasoned meat. I'm not targeting you. This wasn't ad hominem. If you are going to use yourself as an example, then only speak of and for yourself. Don't generalize. Ever. Because when you default back to "I'm talking about me, not everyone else." it makes it very inconsistent. 

[Guest GRRigger]

It's funny how some vegans think they're "making a difference" by not eating meat, thinking that somehow that will stop cows from being butchered. Hate to break it to you, but whether or not you eat meat, the same amount of cows are going to be butchered. Same concept goes for people who think turning off the lights at their house is saving the planet. Nope, the electricity plants are still burning just as much coal as they were before.

 

Ok now i am really, really trying hard to control myself, not to start hating all over your genious theory.

Do you not think its making a difference. Not even a small difference? Acording to market demand and supply, market is constantly changing and adapting.  Same with coal, same with meat, same with any thing that is on a market. And actually, demand for meat is growing. Also electricity, despite the different energy saving lights.

If its so miniscule change, its not going to affect much true. But if somehow, people would start eating red meat only once a week, less cattle dont you think supply would not adapt?

EDIT:

 

ITT: Butthurt vegans

Dont be a dick. - Vitalus

 

 

0/10 try harder

Such an argument. Tell me, is any in your family fat, or have high blood cholesterol or any, any disease connected to it at all?

I mean, i was so impressed by your knowledge and intelligence, please tell me more of your brilliant explanation.

 

And vitalus, now you see i am really trying hard to not just rage.  How would i not, if people are just blantantly hating on vegans or any thing related to the diet, and are ignorant.

 

Disclamer: Till now, i never said anything connected to religious or moral thoughts. Only economy and how you can become vegan & things connected by it like health and economical perspective.

And i am not vegan, nor vegetarian or any subsidized group of it. I just eat what i think is heatly, or at least try to.

[LAwLz]

It's not. I agree. It's a cop out to ask for the best possible proof humanity has to offer. Because that implies you will accept nothing less. Which, to me, kind of makes you a prude. Also, I reiterate the common sense thing.

I am asking for proper proof. A peer revived scientific study is what I would call only slightly above borderline proof. I can find some random "scientific study" on some blog that proves that Nazis live on the moon.

If I am going to change my lifestyle then I want proper proof that there are benefits, not just some random person on a forum telling me that it's true.

 

 

Most people who eat meat eat pre-seasoned meat. I'm not targeting you. This wasn't ad hominem. If you are going to use yourself as an example, then only speak of and for yourself. Don't generalize. Ever. Because when you default back to "I'm talking about me, not everyone else." it makes it very inconsistent. 

I guess that depends on where you live. Here in Sweden only maybe ~20% of the meat in stores is preseasoned. Even if it wasn't, I still don't think your argument is valid. You eat so much preseasoned meat that you consume too much salt? Then eat less meat, eat less preseasoned meat, or eat less salt in general.

Again, I am advocating eating a balanced diet that includes a proper amount of everything, including meat. I am not saying that you should eat it every day, 3 times a day. I am just arguing that it is good to eat some meat.

[Guest GRRigger]

I am asking for proper proof. A peer revived scientific study is what I would call only slightly above borderline proof. I can find some random "scientific study" on some blog that proves that Nazis live on the moon. Please, do.

And that blog has to have .edu in its domain.

If I am going to change my lifestyle then I want proper proof that there are benefits, not just some random person on a forum telling me that it's true.

 

Random person would like to tell you, that random person, not only that has an education in the field, but the humble random person also knows something about food and health because its self thought also, and random person also posseses an intelligence, witch we cant really say for other random person, whom i explained everything, and currently writing to, i will now show papers to that random person that have " .edu " and by now, that random person might present their theory or at least google.com by itself to find out numbers, lazy random person that is.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/sustain/global/sensem/MeatIndustry.html

http://tier-im-fokus.ch/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/pimentelpimentel03.pdf

 

This is very exsessive research. You have to use

http://www.google.si/books?hl=sl&lr=&id=1B9LQQkm_qMC&oi=fnd&pg=PP18&dq=Livestock%E2%80%99s+Long+Shadow+%E2%80%93+Environmental+Issues+and+Options&ots=LM1Zb-5KlN&sig=zifjb68_VCDp-zMkw6WnR_4EyzY&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Livestock%E2%80%99s%20Long%20Shadow%20%E2%80%93%20Environmental%20Issues%20and%20Options&f=false

 This is also very exessive

 

http://www.google.si/books?hl=sl&lr=&id=MqTT1hsfcy0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA66&dq=livestock+food+or+human&ots=kxEt3Tf81n&sig=3NZcYzYAO6-TF7f9PiAB7eQQ67c&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

 

i can search for more if you want, but i doubt you will even skim thru any of those papers

 

and if you dont agree living without ( or at least with less-> as you suggested also ) meat and dairy products dont benefit our health and economic prospect, well, we will have to agree to disagree.

[RatedBlam]

One of these threads again.

Discussing the pros and cons of a diet = Discussing about soundcards

[themaniac]

One of these threads again.

Being a vegan/vegetarian = owning a soundcard

don't relate food to tech

[RatedBlam]

don't relate food to tech

It was kind of an inside joke...

I should edit the post as it's hard to get my stupid joke. I apologize

[Snickerzz]

I neeeeeeed my cheezburgers

[Guest GRRigger]

Aaand random people.

If you have anything to quote me about, please just imagine you won the argument and you are right and dont quote me.

Thank you in advance.

[LOST TALE]

I am and will remain omnivor.

@GRRigger

so..how did this happen...lol. Looks like a discussion didnt go well. :unsure:

 

I quoted yo name

[LAwLz]

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/sustain/global/sensem/MeatIndustry.html

http://tier-im-fokus.ch/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/pimentelpimentel03.pdf

 

This is very exsessive research. You have to use

http://www.google.si/books?hl=sl&lr=&id=1B9LQQkm_qMC&oi=fnd&pg=PP18&dq=Livestock%E2%80%99s+Long+Shadow+%E2%80%93+Environmental+Issues+and+Options&ots=LM1Zb-5KlN&sig=zifjb68_VCDp-zMkw6WnR_4EyzY&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Livestock%E2%80%99s%20Long%20Shadow%20%E2%80%93%20Environmental%20Issues%20and%20Options&f=false

 This is also very exessive

 

http://www.google.si/books?hl=sl&lr=&id=MqTT1hsfcy0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA66&dq=livestock+food+or+human&ots=kxEt3Tf81n&sig=3NZcYzYAO6-TF7f9PiAB7eQQ67c&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

 

i can search for more if you want, but i doubt you will even skim thru any of those papers

 

and if you dont agree living without ( or at least with less-> as you suggested also ) meat and dairy products dont benefit our health and economic prospect, well, we will have to agree to disagree.

That is not what I asked for... I asked for proof that a vegetarian diet is cheaper as well as healthier than eating (proper) amounts of meat.

I will write a proper reply to you when I got the time to go through your other posts. I have to say though, it's really hard to take you seriously when your first action when someone disagrees with you is insult them by calling them morons, and then certain parts of your post in all caps.

[McMurderMonkey]

I'm not currently, but my father who has had three heart attacks almost died on his last one and became a strict vegansaving his life and he lost a LOT of weight. So yeah, I plan to become one but I enjoy my bacon while I can.

[Askew]

No, meat is one of life's greatest things.

 

The funniest preachy veggies are the ones who smoke, kind of contradictory.

[helping]

 

 

proper amounts of meat.

 

I have a feeling you two are getting caught up on that phrase.

 

One of you is probably thinking of gluttonous meat consumption and the other perspective is a healthy amount.

 

IMO meat should be treated as a luxury, as a part of food, not the food as it often is.

 

Not to mention that you sound like an asshole when you are out and then refuse to eat certain food, or have to bother your friends to make food specially for you.

 

What you don't take into consideration is that a lot of the things we feed animals are such things humans can't eat. Sure producing meat is pretty wasteful in terms of how much resources you have to put in, but those resources are not usable for anything else to begin with.

Reminds me of when I was at my uncle's house and he had his friend over who's some kind of half assed vegetarian that eats fish and chicken. We ordered a large tray of fried rice to use as a base, they accidentally gave us house special rice so all of us had to wait for it to be remade because this asshat refused to eat it because he's sort of a vegetarian. 

 

 

But I should add -in America only- -- I say this because I don't know in detail about other countries, non-free range based meat farming (majority of US production) typically relies on corn product feed which makes it incredibly wasteful here. The corn and wheat could have been put to much better use if consumers here ate meat more sparingly. I believe the 1/10th conversion of biomass ratio applies as well. 

[tobben]

 Reminds me of when I was at my uncle's house and he had his friend over who's some kind of half assed vegetarian that eats fish and chicken. We ordered a large tray of fried rice to use as a base, they accidentally gave us house special rice so all of us had to wait for it to be remade because this asshat refused to eat it because he's sort of a vegetarian. 

 

because it's so much better to throw food in the garbage bin that has already been killed sliced transported and cooked, just to make something new, not wastefull at all, that animal died for nothing, LOGIC!, you should have punched him in the face with a closed fist right there and then, then proceeded to kick his sorry ass out of the restaurant.

[Lyons]

My expression of frustration is more important than stupidity and ignorance of people right? Okay, ...

 

debauchery? More like deuchebaggery

 

Is it  deuchebaggery for me to go eat a big juicy stake and enjoy the fuck out of it in celebration of all the posts you've made? I just might for dinner tonight... There's bacon in the fridge too... and some roast beef for sandwiches at lunch... today will be a good day  :rolleyes:

[ConfusedDolphin]

I like eating meat, I also like eating non-meat products, my solution I enjoy both as part of a (semi) balanced diet, going well so far. 

[MzCatieB]

i like a roast dinner every now n then :3

[MasterJV]

I limit how much meat I eat cause I feel bad for the cows. But it's impossible to not eat meat when you live next to Five Guys, In N Out, and Ike's Sandwich.

[NInety]

I couldn't be a vegetarian if I tried....

 

[Dudenstein]

I've been vegetarian for 1 year and I'm still going strong. Meat is not only cruel, but also a waste of our resources. Over 150 Billion animals are raised and slaughtered every year; this equates to LOTS of CO2 emissions.

 

Me being vegetarian gives me the right to waste lots of gas driving my 5.7L Hemi Durango, and yes I live in Minnesota

 

I would much rather have fun driving a powerful SUV than supporting the cruel slaughter of animals

I'm sorry but that seems a tad hypocritical.

I am not vegetarian and I do not support the cruel slaughter techniques that are used in many slaughter houses. That's why I buy local and open range products. These products are much more sustainable but they will cost more to purchase. It is also relatively easy for me to gain access to such products living in southern California

But factory farms aren't the only issue. Massive agriculture also have a negative impact on the environment. Yeah it's not in CO2 emissions but in deforestation, irrigation, soil degradation, etc. just because you went vegan/vegetarian does not mean you're being ecologically conscious.

If you want to help preserve the environment in terms of dietary choices then local and open range is the way to do it. Blind vegetarianism/veganism doesn't really solve anything and really just switches one negative outcome for another

[Dudenstein]

I limit how much meat I eat cause I feel bad for the cows. But it's impossible to not eat meat when you live next to Five Guys, In N Out, and Ike's Sandwich.

The Office Burger makes those choices taste like 99 cent tv dinners

[Ruostunut kokis]

I guess I could cope without meat every now and then, but I have no plans of becoming a veggie / vegan. I just eat whatever is cheap and / or tastes good.