Star Wars V. Star Trek

[Anomnomnomaly]

4 hours ago, jones177 said:

I was 13 years old when the first Star Trek series come out and it was great. It had concepts in it that any reader of science fiction would be familiar with. 

It was about the system and the people living in it like you would find in the works of Robert Heinlein. 

The successful Star Trek series that came after used the same concepts as the first.                                                                                                                                                        

 

I was 23 when Star Wars came out and was not really comparable to Star Trek. It used the pacing that was popular with old 30s and 40s sci fi movie serials that I loved to watch at matinees when I was in my pre teens. So more like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. I would compare it to writings by Andre Norton. The first movie was great but I was not a fan of any of the other movies.

My Favorite Star Wars I was "Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic" the video game and its sequel that was done by Obsidian.

 

 

 

I read a lot of Heinlein and Silverberg in my early teenage years, progressing onto Asimov, Greg Bear and then into more horror genres with Stephen King, Clive Barker, Den Koontz and so forth.

 

So my love of Sci-Fi and fantasy was shaped very early on by Star Wars and Star Trek. I was a little kid when I saw Star wars and I remember going to see a double bill of SW and Empire at a local cinema around 83. We got re-runs of Star Trek TOS on a Monday evening which was when we were at a local youth club and almost every crowded round into the TV room to watch it each week. Throw in movies like Tron, Blade Runner (which I didn't really fully understand until I was much older). So many great movies in my early years.

 

Then we had TNG from around 87-88 in the UK on BBC2 and I'd watch that without fail every week... I loved DS9 too but wasn't a fan of Voyager... still think it's the weakest of all ST series.  I went to see most of the Star Trek movies at the cinema (when I was old enough to go on my own) and even went to an 8 movie Star Trek all nighter they did when Insurrection came out. I've enjoyed Discovery so far and thought Enterprise was ok to begin with and got a little worse towards the end... But not Voyager bad. I still think DS9 is the best of the 3 we had in the 80's and 90's.  So for the TV shows my order would be DS9, TNG, TOS, E, V... and I'd have to decide where to slip Discovery in there now... probably equal to TOS... and we've got Picard coming in a few months... and the trailers look so good and appear to touch on events in both TNG and Voyager. So that could easily jump to the top of the list if my expectations are met or exceeded. I own all of the ST movies on either DVD or bluray inc the reboot alternative timeline... which I don;'t want to go into until later... for reasons that will become obvious.

 

I've seen the original SW trilogy in the cinema, owned them on VHS and anxiously awaited the 20th anniversary special editions of Star Wars that were released in 97 and went to see them all... was ok with most of the changes, disliked a few parts... that changed the characters essence (Yeah, we all know I mean Han MUST shoot first, it defines his character and how he evolves over the trilogy). I bought those on VHS too.

 

I had tickets for the first showing day of Phantom Menace with a friend from work... and walked out feeling bitterly disappointed... It was just a little boring after the initial buzz wore off.

 

Episode 2... again, disappointed but laughed my arse of at Yoda bouncing all over the room to fight Dooku. Episode 3 was finally a little better... but still not even close to the original trilogy. Again I bought them on DVD, along with yet another release of the original trilogy with even more 'adjustments' having been made... But I've not yet bought them on bluray... although I do have them on my mediaserver    How many times can you be expected to buy the same thing over and over again?

 

Fast forward 10yrs and Episode 7... and once the Rose coloured lightsabers have worn off... you realise what a dull film it is... it was nothing more than a rehash of the originals. But given the JJ Abrahms is completely overrated as a director and is nothing more than a mediocre one who hasn't had an original idea in more than a decade... My expectations were already low after the prequel trilogy.

 

Then Rogue One came out... and I LOVED it.... It's the prequel movie fans had wanted... no.. needed for over 30yrs. It was brilliantly directed, written, the acting was superb and it wasn't made like a typical star wars movie... it was more like an old war movie and it kept the tension high and gave every single fan one thing they needed... VADER!!!

 

Then we had Last Jedi... OMG... what a piece of shit that was. I honestly can't think of a single redeeming part of it that was of any use at all in the entire franchise. Remove the entire Finn/Rose sub plot and nothing changes in the movie at all. They are entirely superfluous to the entire thing... it's pointless having them in the movie at all.  Bad writing, shitty direction, the worst plot of any SW movie outside of TPM... and it deservedly earns it's place as the 2nd worst SW movie ever made.

 

Solo... I really enjoyed it... and I'd love to see more of the years between it and Ep4.

 

So with Ep9 coming along in Dec... I don't even think I will bother going to see it... if I do, it won't be until the new year.

 

So we can come back to the ST reboot now... because you'll have probably guessed... JJ Abrahms is the reason those movies aren't that great... He's a mediocre hack, he can't make anything good anymore... he's a one trick pony and all of his movies are the same. He's a notch above Michael Bay... he's a sub par director like Tim Burton and M Night Shamalamadingding... All of whom had a few decent movies in their early years and then produced repetitive garbage over and over again.  That said... 2009 Star Trek was a reasonably good movie... Into Darkness was just more of the same and just a rewrite of ST WoK without the dramatic elements. and ST Beyond was a worthless pile of crap... More akin to a Fast and Furious pile of shit movie that the ST universe.  So thank feck we had Discovery to elevate the dramatic and scientific aspects of the ST universe once more because letting JJA direct or produce the franchise is only going to produce more crap.

 

So I'm really torn.. from the ST side movies have become a worthless experience... but it's strong point was always the TV side anyway... and long may that continue with Discovery and Picard... I can accept that any new ST movies fall outside of the ST universe and can simply be ignored and disregarded as anything to do with ST canon... In fact I'm pleased that you can do that.

 

On the SW side... I used to think that the prequels were worthless garbage and would be happy if they never existed... Oh how times have changed... When you've grown up through all 3 of the trilogies. It gives you a greater perspective on the whole, rather than cherry picking what just happens to be the 'in thing' for your current generation. I'm not trying to play down the importance of these movies to a younger audience... I'm pleased that it still has the ability to enrapture young minds and draw them into a  universe that I've loved my whole life.

 

But I'm not that little kid anymore, my love of cinema in general means that I analyse all aspects of a movie. I will watch films several times to focus on different things. I initially get an overall image of it, then I'll drill down into minor details, the writing, the acting, the direction, the cinematography, the musical score... It all now plays a part of my opinion... for younger audiences (as it was for me)  it's no longer all about the big whooshy space explosions and funny/cutesy droids. My love of cinema has evolved in a way that the franchise has not.

 

That said... and I'm aware that this post has dragged on and I do hope that you do read it all. (if you quote, anything remember to trim the quote so as not to annoy everyone else with poor manners). What they are currently doing with the SW franchise is killing it dead. Trying to eradicate everything that came before instead of using it and building on it.

 

I think they're actually starting to realise this now... But the Skywalker ark is dead to me now... I no longer care what happens.  I want more of the expanded universe... I want a VADER movie set between 3 & 4 that shows how they eradicated and hunted down the remaining Jedi... In fact make it a TV series with a tone akin to Dexter... which made a serial killer seem cool and chaotic good... But this is Disney and they'd never do it... But the franchise and the fans would love it and flock to it like you'd never believe.  I want more of Thrawn as we've only seen him in the Rebels tv show. His character is worthy of exploration... In fact I'd go so far as to say make CGI movies of the Zahn  'heir to the empire' trilogy of books with the original characters to revive the 'Skywalker' side of SW in general.

 

I'll reserve comment for Mandalorin and Obi Wan shows coming in the new year until then... But I'll tell you now... I will NOT be purchasing a subscription to yet another streaming platform that is becoming over saturated and will only serve to fragment the market more and cost consumers more and more money.

 

 

So my rating system for the movies is thusly...  V, IV, RO, VI, So, III, II, VII, VIII, I... anyone who thinks anything else is wrong. 

 

 

I'll state with absolute authority that the increased fragmentation of the streaming market will only serve to increase 'piracy' as consumers get increasingly fed up and frustrated with companies pulling content from already established platforms in favour of being greedy and wanting a bigger slice.

 

I'd love to see legislation introduced that forces companies to license out their shows/movies to other streaming services after an adequate exclusive time period... say 12 months.  Movies are now on average out on Bluray/DVD within around 3 months of the cinematic release and companies make their money in those initial periods. Licensing out a tv show after 12 months allows them to continue brining in more money.. especially after 'syndication' status is reached (normally 52 episodes, so 1 a week can be shown all year round).

[DarkShame2]

I'm more of a Star Wars person as I hardly seen much of Star Trek. Don't get the wrong idea about me,  I respect Star Trek as it a a huge loyal fan base and can generally understand why so many people/fans love the franchise.

[xARACHN1D]

20 hours ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

-snip-

Very informative.

[wasab]

The new gen star trek films are infinity better than the star wars sequel. 

[xARACHN1D]

4 minutes ago, wasab said:

The new gen star trek films are infinity better than the star wars sequel. 

This I can agree with. I am not too onboard with the whole Finn/rey story arc, But it is star wars sooo...

[PCGuy_5960]

I like both Star Wars and Star Trek (mostly ToS and the movies with the ToS crew), but I think the more recent Star Trek movies are better than the more recent Star Wars movies.

[Bacon soup]

Disney ate star wars and all we get now is poop. Star wars could be an exploration of religion and morals like the KOTOR games but disney has just made a bunch of CGI action scenes full of characters no one cares about. It's literally a pile of stinky corporate Disney poop.

I never got into star trek. There are more thought provoking sci fis out there than star trek. Star Trek has a bunch of fantasy technologys and warmongering aliens, then captain kirk breaks starfleet rules to save the day; rinse and repeat.

The question should be Star Wars vs Star Trek vs Firefly.

[Anomnomnomaly]

4 hours ago, Bacon soup said:

The question should be Star Wars vs Star Trek vs Firefly.

 

If you really want to to make it a hard choice... Firefly or Farscape.

[Bacon soup]

7 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

If you really want to to make it a hard choice... Firefly or Farscape.

I found Farscape rather cringy. How about Firefly vs Escape from New York/LA

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Bacon soup said:

I found Farscape rather cringy. How about Firefly vs Escape from New York/LA

You think Farscape is cringe so you mention Escape from LA? Escape from NY was a really decent cult film - while LA had some cool bits, it's ultra cringe.

[Donut417]

I like both. 

 

Starwars I specifically like Epidoes 4-7, Epsidoe 8 was ok. I like Rouge One and Solo, Epsidoes 1-3 are meh. 

 

Startrek Im a TOS, Voyager, Enterpise and TNG fan. But movie wise I like the orginals. Specificaly Star Trek 2 The wrath of Khan and the Voyage Home. The newer stuff with Partrick Stewart is pretty good as well. The New JJ Abrams movies can suck it.  

[Donut417]

Double Post. 

[D.U.F.F.]

[D.U.F.F.]

[D.U.F.F.]

[xARACHN1D]

UNITED AIRLINES IS MAKING A STAR WARS PLANE!!!!

[spartaman64]

ive only seen star wars but from what i heard star trek's science seems more sound and they get into more interesting topics so if i had time to get into star trek i would probably like it more

[D.U.F.F.]

[Praesi]

I like Both.

 

Except for ST Discovery and the SW  Disney Stuff. Garbage it is.

[Animal901]

On 10/30/2019 at 10:10 AM, dalekphalm said:

Better get them soon if you want good seats.

Nah.....   Been buying tickets 10 mins before the trailers start on star wars for years now. Stop going to overhyped movie theaters. 

[Fasauceome]

On the one hand, star wars offers gripping action and dazzling scenes of sci fi grandeur, the original trilogy showcases excellent combinations of drama and depth with intense futuristic blaster fights. The clone wars extended universe animated series (all of them) offer a new twist on the star wars universe that keeps everything fresh and preserves what fans love most about the originals.

 

On the other hand, Star trek delivers sorry characters and genius writing of drama and very rich and meaningful character development, the acting and writing goes miles to make the characters truly come to life from your screen, and you feel like you're really onboard the Enterprise, Voyager, what have you. 

 

As a child I dove in headfirst to star wars Legos, and as an adult here I am buying special edition Star trek wine. Both franchises offer so much.

[Trik'Stari]

There was a time when I would have gladly answered Star Wars, but that time is no longer.

 

Now? Neither. All about The Expanse.

[dalekphalm]

57 minutes ago, Praesi said:

I like Both.

 

Except for ST Discovery and the SW  Disney Stuff. Garbage it is.

Discovery is largely really good - it's very different from other Trek, though - yes, a little more edgy, but also they're diving significantly into large moral dilemmas, which is at the core of what Trek is.

 

Season 1 was a mixed bag - the Pilot was good, but the rest of the first half of the season was just not great - it was very episodic, and hardly tied into the war arc at all.

 

But the latter half of season 1 was truly epic, and very kickass. Of course, Mirror Universe episodes are almost always the best of Trek, so there's hardly a surprise there.

 

Also for Disney Star Wars - Rogue One is among the best Star Wars movies - right up there with Empire, Jedi, and Revenge. TFA was overall very good, but obviously heavy on the nostalgia (no surprise there, with the absolute hate that Lucas got over the Prequels - while many, including myself did like them, I can still recognize that especially Ep 1 and 2 were very problematic (Ep 2 in particular - Ep 1 had it's faults, but honestly, aside from the annoying Jar Jar stuff - which I liked as a kid - Ep 1 holds up decently) - but Lucas got so much hate and flak for the Prequels and things like politics and midichlorians, etc.

 

So it should be no surprise to anyone that Disney was cautious about trying something too new, because they wanted to avoid the Prequel Backlash all over again - so they ditched the politics and made it a very straight forward adventure film, copying a lot of points from Eps 4 and 6. That wasn't a bad call, especially since they had 2 more movies in the Sequel trilogy to build off of.

 

Ep 8 - very divisive. Some people absolutely hate it, and think it's garbage (likely you included). Others loved it and think it's the best Star Wars movie. And most people are like me - it was fun, there were some nonsensical scenes and plot points I didn't enjoy (boring car chase in space as the main setting, for one) - but there were other parts of the movie that were brilliant, and among the best Star Wars - incl. basically anything to do with Kylo and Rey - they have significant chemistry together, and those scenes work very well. And the Throne Room scene with the Praetorian Guards was fucking epic. So while I disliked some, and loved others - overall, just like most people who saw it - my feelings were neutral with slightly positive undertones.

 

Solo was fucking good - excellent action and choreography, and the story was good enough to pass muster. It's a shame that the people who boycotted it (mostly angry TLJ fans) are likely the ones who would like it the most out of the new movies - it's got a very strong "OT" vibe. 

 

Rise of Skywalker looks excellent so far, based on the trailers, and what little leaks I've seen (I've been trying to avoid legit leaks, but every now and then I see something).

 

And no matter what you might think of the Sequel Trilogy, it's almost certain that most people would have hated George's original vision for Ep 7-9 even more, given what he's talked about including (Eg: Midichlorians are actually microscopic sentient aliens called the Whills who basically control the universe behind the scenes).

 

And then there's the Mandalorian. It comes out in... 3 days. And looking amazing so far.

54 minutes ago, Animal901 said:

Nah.....   Been buying tickets 10 mins before the trailers start on star wars for years now. Stop going to overhyped movie theaters. 

"overhyped movie theatres" - please explain what you think that means?

 

I will admit I don't go to shit movie theatres with shit outdated projection equipment - if that's overrated, then that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

I also don't live in the middle of nowhere - most cinemas in larger cities will be sold out (or at least sold out of good seats) long before the premiere.

 

And on top of that, the most important reason I buy tickets well in advance: Reserved seating. Fuck going to the movie 10 minutes before it starts and the only seats are 1st and 2nd row, or along the edges (especially if 3D, since you lose a lot of brightness on the edge seats).

15 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

There was a time when I would have gladly answered Star Wars, but that time is no longer.

 

Now? Neither. All about The Expanse.

Man, the Expanse is fucking good, right? Definitely the premiere Sci-Fi series (possibly even franchise) going on right now. And I'm excited to see what they'll do with the fat Amazon budget behind them now.

 

It's probably the closest thing that's come to the BSG vibes since BSG went off the air.

[Praesi]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Discovery is largely really good

Discovery is Garbage and a Disgrace to StarTrek. Pathetic SJW Bullshit. No real ST Fan like this Pile of Horseshit.

[SaviorSix]

They're really not comparable. One is set in reality with a scientific twist, while the other is a fantasy with a science fiction twist. One is more about the politics of exploring space while the other is more about the action. I prefer Star Wars because of the action and fantasy.